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Well, I don't know your wife well enough to know for certain, but there's one thing I do know about people in general: they only hide sensitive or inflammatory information. So clearly, she is receiving something on her phone that she does not want anyone to see. How much access do you have to the phone as far as privileges, and what kind of phone is it?
 

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You are going to have to change your personality to win her back. Just from reading your thread and posts I can tell she is going to "control this" and your going to allow it. Do you want to save your marriage? Cause if you do, you better be a lot more strong willed and assertive. It shouldn't even gotten to this point... "nite xxx" means she is no longer working for him or contacting him.

You are going to find out what you don't want to... the question is what are you going to do to get her back, cause clearly that is what you want. You should be starting now instead of waiting for the inevitable.

More time you wait, harder it will be to get her out of dream land... good luck
 

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Here’s an update on progress to date. I checked the VAR from last night’s shopping trip. No incriminating conversations, all I heard was the radio and the car noise, she didn’t call anyone.
What I did notice is that on a number of occasions she stopped the car for a few minutes before driving off again. Assume she was texting? Saw her phone last night, no texts on their to him
I’ll persevere with the VAR but I think any contact taking place is by text. I tried syncing my iPhone wit ITunes last night but couldn’t work out how to get the text history; the files I could find on the PC were all gibberish.
Today I have purchased a pay as you go sim card for my iPhone. I’m going to put it in the iPhone and put my sim in my work phone. This way I can use my iPhone as a free GPS tracker and still receive calls and texts on my number in case she calls to check that I have my iPhone on me and not hidden in the car! I had to pay £10 for the credit on the sim but that’s better than £160 for a GPS tracker device.
I’m also going to try and get access to her phone bill records. I have been on her provider’s website and I can rest her username and password, I assume this will send a test to her phone to get her to confirm but I intend to have the phone at the time and intercept. I figure that if there are lots of calls and texts then I’ll have enough to confront. If I can’t do this I’ll rely on the VAR and GPS combo and hopefully catch her out over the Christmas break when she’ll have to be more inventive if she wants contact because I am off work for 10 days.
How do you know she wasnt stopping for traffic lights?
 

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This is how it SHOULD have went down when you saw the “nite xxx” text. Confrontation, taking the phone, threating to text him as her, not putting up with her BS about privacy…. Right then you would have known…. And knowing is half the battle.

Then you get a backbone and hit her with hard consequences…. In most cases she would come crawling back and you can start R under your terms. If she doesn’t, you move on and again in most cases if not all… you will be better for it. Unfortunately you didn’t do this and probably won’t do what will come next.
 

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Do you know any men that do? .
No, i'm merely saying that just because a lowlife sends a girl kisses, it doesn't mean she neccasarily wants them, or reciprocates them - its only bad if she sends them back. The rest of the message (in front of the kisses) wasn't good though.
 

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The reality of the situation (see bolded text below):

Hi All,
I need some help, how many times have you read that line? I, like others before me have read quite a lot of threads on here before deciding to put my worries out there. The reading has resulted in a few things:
• Shock at how similar some of the issues I have been facing are to those already on here, I read one thread and could have almost believed I’d written it myself.
Realisation that I probably already know the truth but am in denial.
• A need within me to think that this site is full of bitter people that can only see the bad in a situation and always end up telling anyone new on here that they are being cheated on. I hope this is true but clearly, if I thought that deep down then I wouldn’t be typing right now.
I’ve realise how scared I am of knowing the truth for sure and having to deal with the consequences.

Quick background: Have been married 8 years, together 10, have two boys (4 and 6) with my wife and two older children from my previous marriage living with us. Both my wife and I are in our late thirties/early forties.

My story – I’ve been working progressively longer hours for a few years now, I have a commute and am out of the house from 6.30 am to about 6.00pm and work has been challenging. Around the end of October I noticed some changes in my wife, she was being less expressive e.g. wasn’t telling me she loved me, seemed to stop texting me, didn’t always respond to texts, stopped telling me she missed me etc. She then said she wanted to go visit an elderly relative on her own, very out of character and would have meant a night away (never done before).
She also started doing some admin work for a plumber that’s done quite a lot of work for us, I was a bit uncomfortable because she has to work in his house, she tells me he is never there and he has given her a key. I noticed them texting a bit, found a text from him to her saying nite nite xxx (his spelling).
Anyway, to get to the point, I talked to her about how I was feeling, said I was worried we were drifting, blamed me for being distant etc. Said I had even imagined that there might be something going on with her and the plumber. She said she still loves me and wants to be with me and that we are just in a rut and it will take her time to readjust. She says that it has been this way for a long time. I disagree, with hindsight, yes we were in a rut but her change has been within the last few months, when I text her ‘I miss you’ she doesn’t respond in kind but changes the subject. She used to wave
My suspicions are obvious; my evidence to date is slim:
• Text saying nite nite xxx (didn’t copy or confront, felt guilty for looking at her phone).
Since I mentioned having concerns over the plumber she deletes all texts and phone records.
She now has the phone on silent and it rarely ever leaves her side, she has also set it so that messages don’t show a preview.
• She went to Toys r us a week or so ago and spent half an hour in a car park on the way (I left my iPhone in the car and tracked her. I confronted her, she said she had just needed space but had phoned the plumber whilst there ‘about work’. She would have lied about the stop off if I hadn’t had the proof.
This guy is going through a rough time with his ex and is having issues over how she looks after their son. I know he has confided in my wife and I worry that the consoling might have crossed a line. He is a cheeky chappy and is the type to flirt but the kisses made me uncomfortable. I hope she is deleting the texts so that I just don’t worry. She says she is committed to our relationship and there is no one else.
I tried the 180 last night and got an instant response, she was very playful and this morning she told me she loved me, first time since I first talked to her about all this six weeks ago.
I’m rambling now, I just want some thoughts. Is this just me? I love her more than anything and have been extremely needy the last couple of months.

To be fair to her, in the last year she has taken on a job at a childrens nursery 3 mornings a week, volunteers for a cat charity and started doing the plumbers work so I guess maybe there were bound to be some changes.

Please help, what do I do next?
Your response (so far) to this reality:

it's actually quite difficult to not let her go out alone, we have two younger kids. I'm now at home with them whilst she is out present shopping. I couldn't have gone with her.

Look, even as I type this I can accept that at some level I am denying what's in front of me. She obviously got wind of me looking at her phone and for at least the last week has left it out where I can get to it when she goes in the bath etc. So, i look and there are no texts from the OM. Even though I know by rights that there should be because she's working for him and they would have to communicate on the one day a week she does this. But on another level, not seeing any texts from him makes me feel relaxed and think that I'm over reacting.

Same thing with the phone log, so yesterday for the first time in a couple of weeks there was a record of some calls back and forth. Now again, she was working for him so agai, it's expected that if he wasn't in the house with her then they probably would talk about what he wants done. But, again, this makes me feel a sense of relief that it must just be me. That maybe he was coming on a bit strong with the texts and she didn't know jhow to handle it but didn't tell me in case I got the wrong idea........

So as you see, in my head I have it all nicely sewn up and as long as I don't fins another text from him with kisses on it and as long as I don't find evidence of calls and as long as i don't track her and find anything then I can live ignorantky in bliss.

I'm quite ashamed that I'm doing this and know that I need to man up and get it sorted. It just seems easier at the moment, man I'm weak!

But, there is a VAR in the car, I think I've convinced myself that there's no reason for her to phone him from the car so I won't uncover anything I have to deal with. It makes me feel better knowing I'm doing something but secretly hoping nothing comes from it.

I think I must be abnormal or maybe I should go to Councelling.
Dear Andy01,

While I greatly respect the other posters on this thread, I believe many of them, like you, are missing the big picture here -- namely, what should you do to regain your happiness.

From reading your notes, it is clear that you were absent from class the day they handed out the "how to be happy" instructions. So let me fill you in on The 10 Rules for Happiness:

Rule No. 1: You only get one life; never forget that. Corollary: You don't know how long you will live, you could live another 50 years or you might die tomorrow; never forget that either.

Rule No. 2: Deal with things as they really are, not as you would like them to be. Face up to your problems rather than pretending they don't exist or hoping they will simply go away.

Rule No. 3: You are solely responsible for your own happiness: don't expect or look to others to make you happy.

Rule No. 4: Your decisions and actions will have the greatest impact on your happiness. If you do the right things, your life will be better and vice versa. Corollary: Be honest with yourself about your failings and genuinely seek to improve yourself.

Rule No. 5: There is no guarantee that you will always be happy: some people win life's lottery, most don't and some people get the shaft. Corollary 1: Don't complain about the cards you are dealt or wallow in self-pity. Instead, focus on what you can control and learn not to worry about the rest. Corollary 2: Understand that it sometimes takes time and effort to regain your happiness.

Rule No. 6: Understand what makes you happy and what doesn't. Corollary 1: Since you will change over time, reconsider from time to time what will make you happy now and adjust your decisions and actions accordingly. Corollary 2: When something happens that makes you very unhappy, consider the totality of the situation: sometimes cutting down a few trees is the answer, other times you need to look for a new forest in which to live.

Rule No. 7: Do what makes you happy. Don't do what others (parents, friends, bosses, spouses, even children) want you to do unless it is what makes you happy. This might sound selfish but it's not. Some people are happiest when they are serving others (e.g., firemen, Mother Teresa).

Rule No. 8: If you are unhappy about something, eliminate it from your life or, if that is not possible, minimize the degree of unhappiness it can cause you. If it's a situation (like a bad job), change it. If it's a thing (like a poorly operating car), get rid of it. If it's a person (like a wayward spouse), stop interacting or least minimize contact with the person. Corollary: When something or someone starts to cause you unhappiness, take action immediately; don't wait around hoping things will get better.

Rule No. 9: You don't apologize to anyone for doing what makes you happy. Corollary: You have no obligation to explain yourself or justify your decisions or actions. If you choose to do so, it should only be because it is to your advantage to do so.

Rule No. 10: Be the best person you can be, as you measure things. For most men, this means being fit and attractive to members of the opposite sex, being financially successfully and being emotionally strong and independent. But if you measure life success differently (e.g., displaying Christian virtues, gaining notoriety, acquiring power), then make these the main focus of you efforts.

If we apply these rules to your situation, it become readily apparent that you are breaking all the rules. For example:

☻ You are focused in the moment rather than thinking about how you want to live the rest of your life (violation of Rule No. 1).

☻ You are more concerned about what your W may or may not have done rather than dealing with what you know she has done (violation of Rule No. 2).

☻ You seek affirmation from your W of your self-worth and the guidance of strangers as to what you should do, rather than taking responsibility for yourself (violation of Rule Nos. 3, 4 and 9).

☻ You are reluctant to take steps to improve your situation and instead are wallowing in self-pity and shame (violation of Rule Nos. 5, 7, 8 and 10).

☻ You seem not to have thought deeply about what you really want out of life (violation of Rule No. 6).

☻ You reject the notion that your life may have to radically change in order for you to (eventually) be happy (another violation of Rule No. 6).

Based on the facts as you have recited them, I believe you have ample reason to be unhappy in your current circumstances and sufficient justification for taking action. So let me offer you an alternative approach to your problem that is consistent with the Rules of Happiness:

1. Sit your W down and tell her that you are so unhappy with your marriage that you are prepared to end it. Explain that, given what you know (OM's note, her hiding her phone messages, etc.), you can only conclude that either she is having an affair or that she doesn't care about you (as these are the only two reasons why she would not have taken steps to address your concerns when you first raised them). Say that, in either case, you would rather end your marriage than continue it since you deserve and are confident that you can have better than what you have right now.

2. Tell her that, out of love for her and your children, you are willing to give her one last chance to save her marriage and prove to you that she is a worthy wife. This requires her telling you everything that has happened between her and her boss, showing you all of her e-mails and text messages, giving you access to all of her communications in the future, immediately terminating all contact with her boss, demonstrating by word and deed on a daily basis that she loves and respects you and doing whatever else you require for her to prove her worth.

3. Tell her that it is her choice whether to do these things or not but, if she chooses not to, you plan to hire an attorney and file for divorce.

4. Stay calm and collected and don't argue with her. If she questions or challenges anything you say, calmly reply that she now knows what you expect of her and it is up to her to decide what she wants to do. Repeat your message as many times as necessary until she realizes that you mean what you say.

5. Give her a very short period of time to consider this. For example, tell her that you plan to speak to an attorney the next day so, if she wants to save her marriage, she has but a few hours to accept your offer.

6. If she refuses, immediately speak to an attorney and commence divorce proceedings.

7. If she agrees, continue to monitor her closely to make sure she does not go underground. Don't tolerate her complaining or pouting for more than a couple of days. If you get any indication that she is not serious about following through with her promise, start divorce proceedings.

8. For the foreseeable future, be cordial toward your W but nothing more. Don't initiate conversations, compliment her, argue with her or do anything else that would lead her to believe that she is anything special to you. Act at all times like a man who knows what he wants and knows that he can get what he wants, if not from her, then somewhere else.

9. Begin to take steps to improve yourself (exercise, work, activities). Make this -- along with your kids -- the focus of your life for now.

10. Start to educate yourself on what it takes to be a man in the 21st century. A good place to start is to read "The Married Man Sex Life Primer" by Athol Kay.

If you take these steps, I can't guarantee that you will end up in a happy marriage with your current W but I can promise that, eventually, you will give yourself the greatest chance of finding true happiness. The key point is that you can't control your W but you can control you. Hence, you should be doing the things that will eventually make you happy, whether your W wants to be with you or not.

I'm not saying any of this will be easy; it may be the hardest thing you will ever have to do. But unless you do it, your life will likely only get worse.

Wishing the best for you.
 

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The reality of the situation ............
Holy sh!t, nobody has given you this much love in a long time OP.

This post was a monumental effort and spot on, read it as many times as it takes for it to sink in.

Really nice post carmen ohio, really nice.

Wow.
 

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OP, you need to look for that burner phone. It is highly likely, no, an absolute, if the calls and texts to and from him have stopped.

I was going to say, get a keylogger so you can get her passwords for her phone bills, but it seems you are on the case with the phone bills.

And you have enough already. The problem is, you need to know what you are dealing with here...as in her, what she has become. And when you confront you need to stop behaving like the husband that you once were. Those modes of operation don't work anymore. They belong to your old marriage. This is the new one.

You cannot continue making excuses for her. Allowing her to fob you off with crap. The trust is gone, and so you need to fire up your ammunition and your armour. Your ammunition to fire at her what she has done with absolute assurance you are right and will not be swayed, and your armour to deal with every pelter she will throw. And she will. She will accuse you of everything and anything. Just let it come, and then let it go straight past and straight over you. Stay focussed on the real issue, which is her lies, her deceit, and her cheating. Don't let her attack you, don't defend yourself from her pathetic diversionary attacks. Just bring it right back to the point. Don't let her divert the issue, to call you crazy, controlling, whatever. Bring it straight back to the point. Don't let her escape. Think of her as a trapped animal that will use anything to get out.

Except she knows there is one thing that will get her out...the truth. Make her use it, or lose you. And the only way she will give it all up is if you stand firm. Rock solid. Do not get angry and do not waiver. And have your repurcussion plan at the ready for her non compliance.
 

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Be my guest, chapparal. Just credit the source.

BTW, it's "carmen ohio," not "Carmen." If you were from the Buckeye State or were an Ohio State alum, you'd recognize the name.:)
Is that anything like Lexington, KY? We do live close to Cincinnatti LOL
 

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Thanks Carmen Ohio, and Chaparalal.
Two people that post what could be taken as hard unforgiving advice but on reflection, I agree that it's the advice I need and it's what I need to do to sort this mess out.

I am determined to get this sorted, I have two boys with my wife, one six and one four. I want them out the house when I confront but there will be a good opportunity to do that after Christmas, I can get my parents to have them for the day while my wife and I go to the post Christmas sales.

Carmen Ohio - your evaluation of me as a person is pretty spot on. I have fairly low self esteem, I have few friends and no real hobbies. I have devoted myself to my wife and took my happiness from that rather than finding things that I like and make me happy as an individual.
I don't think about the future, I am feeling sorry for myself and I have never really thought about what I want from life, just about making her happy.

Very wise words, I just need to be strong enough to be able to implement.

Many thanks to everyone that has contributed, It's good to be able to listen to people that just tell it as it is.
 

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I'm tempted to drop round the plumbers next time she's working there to see if he is there but even if he is it proves nothing, it's his house after all.
I thought she changed jobs to a day care or something.

Anyway ...

Note to self. If wife says she has a new job in a nearby town working in a plumbers house tell her no I am not ok with that.

Realize my wife and I use the Policy Of Joint Agreement. This means on major things like this we have to agree.

So assuming you could have said something about this, why in the world would you have been ok with it? Maybe it is actually a shop where he lives upstairs or such.

So I would not have gone for this arrangement personally.

Now I am most likley wrong about this, but surely she is no longer working there. So she wold have no reason to be going near his home at all. Surely you have been there before yourself.

So I guess your motivation now is to find evidence to divorce her.

However if that is not your intent and she is still working there, if there is not a full blown EA / PA you are going to get one soon enough with the sounds of it. But if she is hiding texts already then you have your answer.

I suggest if se is working there you stop that immediately. The thing is if there is an EA / PA going on already then you will get evidence oon enough. Yes that tips your hand but the longer this goes on the worse it gets.

Now if your intent is to gather evidence for a divorce then keep snooping. You will get plenty.

If she quit that job long ago, forgive me. But indeed if you reconsile you should not be ok with that type of arrangement IMO.
 

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Andy, I don't know if I am one of the 'harsh' advice givers you posted about, if I am I'm sorry. I don't mean to be harsh. Sometimes I get too quick to point out what's needed and necessary when the OP maybe isn't ready to hear it, and needs more clarification on what is needed and why. I try to tailor my posts to who is posting. Sometimes I don't do it very well.

I suppose the issue is do you want to get to the bottom of this, get the truth, and move on from a point of trust and honesty, or do you just want her to stop and for you to continue in your lives? If you want it just to stop, then you will never be sure of what went on, when, how long, if it went on, and if it stopped. If you want to get to the bottom of this, completely, so you can rebuild properly, then you really do have to get to a place where you are prepared to lose the relationship in order to save it. Those who care least about the relationship hold all the power. Right now it is her. And yet she is the one who is lying, being deceitful, hiding things from her husband. She is the one being cruel, insensitive to you and your feelings. Not caring. And yet you are allowing her to continue by allowing her to have that power.

Think about it. 2 scenarios.

1. Woman cheats, man finds out, wife says sorry & he accepts, or she manages to convince him nothing went on, she is sh*tting herself that he might find out all, but he doesn't. Phew! All gets back to normal. Opportunity arises again and she is tempted again and goes for it due to the ability to convince her trusting husband/or that the affair that cooled off while hubby was suspicious is now ok to resume again.

2. Wife has affair. Husband sees red flags all over. He demands truth. She refuses. He kicks her out. Tells her it is truth or nothing. Now....she knows she has to give truth to have any chance of winning her hubby back. The reality sets in, the husband is now missing and she is thinking of all the good things in the marriage she chose to forget while she had her excitement. She starts to wonder what on earth she is doing risking someone she knows she loves and is her husband for a man that she barely knows.

So, hubby knows anyway, she might as well come clean and tell him what he demands to know. That is the only chance she has of getting her marriage back. One choice and that is it. So then she has to come clean about the whole torrid experience, say those hurtful things to you, the shame, the embarrassment, and the demands of her are all yours to make as she is the person admitting to such terrible wrongs.

You get remorse this way if you stand strong, you get her effort, you get her commitment, you get to choose the way forward, you get the control over how you proceed forward.

Unless of course this is an exit affair, in which case she wants to leave you anyway, it is just a waiting game as to when. What you do with these actions is just speed up the inevitable.

Both scenarios in number 2 you come from a position of strength. You show what you will not put up with. You show that you will not allow her to take you for a fool, to lie to you, to treat you badly. You will not allow it and she will be thrown out if she chooses that path.

And that in turn has a positive effect. She respects you. If she wants the marriage, this will strengthen it massively. She learns your boundaries. She knows if she fu*ks up she will be out. She is now scared to fu*k up, she respects you, she respects the marriage, she works hard to keep you and thus values you much more, and much more deeply.

Coming down hard on her may seem to you like you will be pushing her away, but you are wrong. That idea is coming from a point of weakness. And that is what makes it easy to bullsh*t you. Trust me. I am in that place also. I have been dealing with this in one way or another for 1 year and 6 months! We have been in limbo, we have split up, I have never been hard enough or tough enough, except once. And you know what? He didn't come begging me back.

Look at those people around you who demand respect. They get respect. They put up with no sh*t. People don't f*ck with them. Those who are scared of upsetting others? Scared of pushing away? Don't stick up for themselves? They get walked on.

And that is why you should not feel guilty for snooping. It is your right to snoop. It is your right because she is putting you in that position. Remember that. It is her. Not you. And that is why, when you confront, you come down hard. And whatever you do, do NOT let her manipulate you. She will try. And if she finds you snooping, do not let her get angry at you. That is the time to be strong about snooping and the time to confront her and do not back down. Do not defend your snooping. Other than by telling her that she has brought this. Not you.
 
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Andy, I'm sure you realize now that agreeing to let your wife work for this plumber was a mistake and to allow her to go to his house is waaaaay to intimate of a setting.

You will have to get the balls to make that stop even if you find out nothing happened...yet.

Whenever you realize you made a mistake you correct it, I try to. If your driving the wrong direction you pull over and get a map and make the correction. You don't just keep driving and hope it turns out ok.

Pull over, TAM is the map. Make the change in direction.
 

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Hey ANdy

You will get to the bottom of this.

I know it isnt easy but enjoy the holidays with your family.

Enjoy the time with your kids.

And watch your wife like a hawk!!!

Good Luck

HM64
 

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Thanks Carmen Ohio, and Chaparalal.
Two people that post what could be taken as hard unforgiving advice but on reflection, I agree that it's the advice I need and it's what I need to do to sort this mess out.

I am determined to get this sorted, I have two boys with my wife, one six and one four. I want them out the house when I confront but there will be a good opportunity to do that after Christmas, I can get my parents to have them for the day while my wife and I go to the post Christmas sales.

Carmen Ohio - your evaluation of me as a person is pretty spot on. I have fairly low self esteem, I have few friends and no real hobbies. I have devoted myself to my wife and took my happiness from that rather than finding things that I like and make me happy as an individual.
I don't think about the future, I am feeling sorry for myself and I have never really thought about what I want from life, just about making her happy.

Very wise words, I just need to be strong enough to be able to implement.

Many thanks to everyone that has contributed, It's good to be able to listen to people that just tell it as it is.
Do you have any evidence from the var or cell? Personally, I wouldn't confront without it. If she is cheating, she will deny any wrongdoing and call you crazy.
 

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Thanks Carmen Ohio, and Chaparalal.
Two people that post what could be taken as hard unforgiving advice but on reflection, I agree that it's the advice I need and it's what I need to do to sort this mess out.

I am determined to get this sorted, I have two boys with my wife, one six and one four. I want them out the house when I confront but there will be a good opportunity to do that after Christmas, I can get my parents to have them for the day while my wife and I go to the post Christmas sales.

Carmen Ohio - your evaluation of me as a person is pretty spot on. I have fairly low self esteem, I have few friends and no real hobbies. I have devoted myself to my wife and took my happiness from that rather than finding things that I like and make me happy as an individual.
I don't think about the future, I am feeling sorry for myself and I have never really thought about what I want from life, just about making her happy.

Very wise words, I just need to be strong enough to be able to implement.

Many thanks to everyone that has contributed, It's good to be able to listen to people that just tell it as it is.
Your familie's future is riding on the strength of your shoulders now. Good luck. Just remember though, the final outcome is in your wifes hands too, you can blow it but you can't force the right outcome. She may be to far gone. I would not wait but thats me. Making her decide before Christmas may put added pressure on her and may destroy in Christmas celebration bullsh!t they have planned.
 

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From personal experience I'd say she's cheating on you. Trust your gut. My only advise is get your facts straight and try and find as much concrete evidence before you confront her because the shutters will go up from that moment on.

If only people knew how much pain an affair causes so many people.
 
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