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Hi, new member here.....concerned about a conversation I had with my wife last night so I am coming here for feedback.
So my wife and I have been happily married for about 15 years. We have 2 kids and we have a trusting relationship with little to no bumps, just the usual nitpicky stuff here and there but nothing major. Neither of us has ever cheated on each other, however, for the majority of our marriage, we have always expressed our fantasies with one another when getting intimate. The most common fantasies have been the two of us with another man joining in (typically my fantasy) or her and another man with me in the same room watching (all her fantasy). Through the years, this has been our typical "dirty talk" and we have always discussed that it's just that and nothing more. She usually brings up, "I'm a mother and I would just feel immense shame afterwards" so there is a track record of this just being dirty talk.
My wife goes out with her girlfriends every now and then, maybe twice a month and usually to a karaoke bar or a brewhouse. I on the other hand generally stay home with the kids and just keep to myself, I don't really have any friends and really just keep my free time confined to my family.
Anyways, about 2 weeks ago, my wife went out with the girls and maybe had a little too much to drink as she was hungover the next day. Well last night, we were getting intimate and talking dirty. Lately she has been losing weight and started waxing "down there" and she has been feeling sexier and more confident which is something that she has always struggled with (i.e. low self esteem). Well, during our dirty talk, I asked her things like, "do you notice guys looking at you when you go out?" and she starts giggling and recounts that night 2 weeks ago and says that yes, men were looking at her that night and some even bought her drinks. During our foreplay, I tried to get more information out of her, while still in the guise of "fantasy mode" and she starts saying things like, "what would you let me do with other men?" I ask her "what do you want to do?" And she says "are you okay if I flirt with other men?" I say sure, and she asks if I am okay if a man buys her a drink and dances with her. Again, I say sure, just to gather more "now very real" information and I ask her "what else do you want to do?" To which she says "I want to kiss other men". At this point, I am alarmed, and I feel like I am much to blame given our ongoing fantasies, so after we are done being intimate, I ask her "how much of what we discussed was just fantasy?" We had a 2 hour conversation and she tells me essentially that she doesn't want to sleep with other men, that she just enjoys the confidence boost, the free drinks and likes to dance. We discuss kissing, to which I say "kissing on the mouth is basically where cheating starts". That basically caused her to sink into her shell because she knew that was the nail on the head for me. She then disagrees and says it depends on how it's done. I ask her for examples and she says a peck on the cheek as a "thanks for the dance/drink" is wholly different than a full fledged makeout session. I tell her, "would you be uncomfortable with me kissing another woman?" And she circles back to "if it's a little peck, I wouldn't care but if it was open mouth with tongue, then yeah I would be upset".
So basically after this long discussion, we establish that a guy buying her a drink, some dancing and flirting is "fine" but that kissing is where I see the start of being unfaithful. She says the attention she gets is what causes her to come home extra frisky and is why she always wants to jump my bones lately.
I never fell asleep, and I still have knots in my stomach just recounting the whole ordeal but really I'm just worried that this is now the beginning of a difficult to manage situation. I feel like she "has permission" to go further than she's gone before with "kissing" being the line in the sand, but I know that if it ever gets to that point, human nature is bound to throw caution to the wind and just deal with the ramifications later, especially when the types of men that are solely going to bars go to basically get laid.
I hope I can solicit some female responses as I feel her situation is relatable. Of course, all feedback is welcome.
-Troubled in Texas
 

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I agree completely with the above post. A married woman should never be going to bars and dancing and flirting and drinking with other men. Sounds like her friends are a bad influence.
Btw it sounds as if kissing has already happened.
She is playing with fire here and you are enabling it.
 

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A married woman has no business accepting drinks from other men. Same goes for flirting and dancing and pecks on the cheek (unless it is from a family member).

Jebus, fella, wake up and smell the coffee. You wife is acting single while you are watching the kids. What is up with that? She has no respect for you.

Yeah, your 'dirty' talk always involving other people may have played a part in her raunchy behavior.
 

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Sheesh, how many threads have their been of husbands opening the Pandora’s box of their wife getting with other men. It never ends well for these husbands. Your wife shutdown because she realized that you were not really ready to share your wife. If she said she wanted to kiss some guys, she has already done that. Could she have done more? Can’t tell with what you’ve provided but your drunk wife getting in back seat of some guy’s car who bought her some drinks does not see out of the realm of possibilities. You fantasy play has primed her to be open to men’s sexual advances. Also, you have signaled that you don’t treasure her. If you did, there’s no way you would get off on some other dude having her.

Do you think a woman feels loved when she knows her husband and father of her kids gets off on another man having her? Does she feel secure and protected?
 

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As a former serial dater let me tell you something.
If I met a woman in a bar when I was single (and believe me I met plenty) and we kissed, we would be having sex that night.
This is not bragging, it’s a fact.
Your wife isn’t asking you for permission to cheat, she’s telling you she’s going to do it. And when she does she will tell you she thought you were okay with it.
On another topic why do all YOUR fantasies involve another man or men screwing your wife.
 

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I love to sing, so I go to karaoke, sometimes with my husband, sometimes with other friends. I do not flirt with men. I do not get drinks from men. I am known by the staff at the bar that I go to. Pretty sure they would mention to my husband anything that I might do that would be inappropriate behavior.

Yes, I think you have opened Pandora's box with this type of fantasy talk. I agree that you are telling your wife that you do not cherish her as your treasure and that she is an object to be played with rather than a cherished wife to make love with. I recommend that you stop with the kind of fantasy talk you have been having and let your wife know that you do not want to lose her and are unwilling to share her on any level. It may be too late, but she's still in your home with you, so you do have a chance of turning this around. It would be good to emphasize that two can play at that game and if she opens up the marriage, she cannot expect fidelity from you. If there is no fidelity, there is no marriage. She needs to know this clearly, but you have to be willing to stand by your boundary.

I also recommend that you get in shape and start being a prize to your wife. Don't grovel or appear weak. Do the opposite and show your confidence and security in who you are as a person.
 

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I get a bad sense here that the cheating has already happened.

I have no idea why wives have to go out with eachother to bars. This need of hers to get hit on by other men? That’s bad. Yeah, I think she’s already giving into it if she is already waxing downstairs.

right now, she is getting free babysitting from you while she goes out to live a single life.

If I were you, I’d start checking her phone and reading her text messages with her friends - especially the ones that she goes out with to these bars.
 

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She then disagrees and says it depends on how it's done. I ask her for examples and she says a peck on the cheek as a "thanks for the dance/drink" is wholly different than a full fledged makeout session. I tell her, "would you be uncomfortable with me kissing another woman?" And she circles back to "if it's a little peck, I wouldn't care but if it was open mouth with tongue, then yeah I would be upset".
I'd bet there's a lot more than a little pecker involved.
 

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I agree that it's possible she is already cheating or is seriously considering it. To find out how far it's gone, check out this thread: Standard Evidence Post . Weightlifter's thread contains all sorts of information on how to find out exactly what is going on.

It's unfortunate that you don't have any friends, because you need someone to go to that bar and spy on your wife.
 

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Under no circumstances should a woman accept a drink from a stranger. FFS, I am a father. My kid is a physician. Do you know how many "morning after" victims find their way into the ER? I used to drive livery, know how many wasted girls, and their "dates" in the back? (They were instructed that my car is not a hotel room, and they are not welcome to use it for that purpose--dropped one or two on a street corner, and drove one young lady directly to the ER, alcohol poisoning) Flirting as your wife seems to describe it, is flirting with danger, both personal and marital. I would advise her to stop.
 

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Under no circumstances should a woman accept a drink from a stranger. FFS, I am a father. My kid is a physician. Do you know how many "morning after" victims find their way into the ER? I used to drive livery, know how many wasted girls, and their "dates" in the back? (They were instructed that my car is not a hotel room, and they are not welcome to use it for that purpose--dropped one or two on a street corner, and drove one young lady directly to the ER, alcohol poisoning) Flirting as your wife seems to describe it, is flirting with danger, both personal and marital. I would advise her to stop.
Plus anyone could slip a date rape drug into it.
 

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Don't let her do it alone man.

Look if she wants some strange (and you seem to have a MFM threesome or hotwife kink) then make sure she does this with you present. It sounds to me like she has already kissed some guys and was hoping she could get off scott-free if you condoned it. Something stinks here. I would go back and tell her you changed your mind and you don't feel comfortable with her doing these things without your present.

But for myself I would not do any of these things. Seems like tampering with the lid on Pandora's Box.
 
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