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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all, and thanks in advance to any who respond.

Brief story. A few years ago, my wife told me in passing, in front of another one of her friends, that while out at a club with some friends, she made out with another woman. She doesn't think it's a big deal, and she still doesn't....mainly because it was with another woman. Yet she waited 3 years after the fact to tell me.

I told her I thought that was cheating as to me, being intimate with any other person beside your spouse is my definition of cheating. This other woman, who is married, had her husband there. This couple is involved in the swinger lifestyle. Due to my work schedule I was not able to go out with them...but I don't like that kind of lifestyle and don't like those people because they are obviously sexually loose so to speak.

After that incident and before she told me about it, she would still go out with them. She kept insisting it was a stupid drunken decision but that nothing more happened. I can't help but question that-a lot. If its just a kiss why wait to tell me? Why hang out with those people after you did something like that? Why still see them occasionally after you told me? Am I reading into this too far or did something more than kissing happen, but she tells me only a little bit so that some guilt is assuaged?

I asked her how she would feel if I made out with another girl and she said its not the same thing, because she didn't make out with another guy. I told her it absolutely was because I am not attracted to men...she still doesn't get it though.

This was also during a period of sexual intimacy problems...my night shift work schedule led us to lead almost separate lives.

When she would get ready to go out, whether with them or not, she would shave her legs, her va****, etc...which I also thought odd. She told me it was just part of her getting ready and that she always shaved everything whenever she shaved.

Since then, we are both in a much better place in our relationship. We've learned how to communicate openly and how to not hide our feelings. Weve come really far. But am I being irrational in thinking something more than a kiss happened, or are my fears grounded in reality that I don't want too see?

Any input would be greatly appreciated, and I'll be glad to provide any more information.

Thanks.
 

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Kissing, in cheatspeak, means they had sex. And yes, kissing is cheating. Unless she had prior permission from you to kiss other people.
That's what I think as well, but she swears on our marriage that they just kissed. I'm having a really hard time believing that but she is sticking to her guns- crying when I think that it was more than that, swearing she would never do anything to hurt me, etc...
 

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No, you are not being paranoid. IMHO, I assume at a minimum that your wife was being very risque at these night clubs. I'm sorry, but if she had to shave the vag before going out, at an absolute minimum she was showing it off to someone. Whether it was flashing like Mardi Gras type behavior or whether she was getting action on the side, no doubt in my mind that she filled a sexual void while you were working the night shift.

IMO, I'd work her hard to get the truth and I'd even strongly consider making her take a polygraph test about her GNOs. And yes, making out with someone of the same sex is cheating. Ask her if you having intercourse with another man is cheating in her book. That would be an interesting question for her to answer...
 

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Yes it is cheating.

However in your case, the fact that she shaved her privates before going out with swingers says to me there was much more than cheating going on.

Privates only need to behaved if they are going to be seen and used by someone, so I think you've been told only a tiny part of the puzzle.

I'll hazard a guess that a big source of you problems back then was her hooking up with someone else, either theses swingers or someone else, and that any improvements you have had are either from that ending, or her getting better at compartmentalizing it.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Definitely.

Unless you are doing the lean-in-and-two-cheeked-peck.

Making out is full blown cheating. Making out IS sex. (well, if done properly it is. :) )


How do I get her to be completely honest? I hate knowing that I can't shake this nagging feeling...I've told her flat out that I think more than a kiss happened but she is adamant that there was nothing more. I told her that I really think she had a threesome with this couple but of course she denies that too.

Sounds like she is attention seeking at the club.
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That's what I think as well, but she swears on our marriage that they just kissed. I'm having a really hard time believing that but she is sticking to her guns- crying when I think that it was more than that, swearing she would never do anything to hurt me, etc...
All cheaters swear when lying

The OW in my case swore on her four children.

My husband swore on the his own life.

Kiss is cheat speak for full sex.

Ask her to do a poly.

Also cheating is usually ANY activity that you would not do in front of your spouse because you know they would not like it.

Kissing, hugging, even just meeting privately for lunches and intimate conversations is cheating as is buying gifts for someone without telling your spouse.
 

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Is kissing cheating?

Ask her if it's cheating if you kiss and make out with someone else.

There is your answer.
Yes. Good approach.

When the Marriage counselor asked my cheating spouse if it would be okay with him if I had an affair with another man, he literally jumped out of his chair and yelled "NO".

Cheaters hate to be cheated on.
 

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I would say kissing depends on the customs and the person.

But in this situation, it is cheating.

That's what I think as well, but she swears on our marriage that they just kissed. I'm having a really hard time believing that but she is sticking to her guns- crying when I think that it was more than that, swearing she would never do anything to hurt me, etc...
If she swears she would never do anything to hurt you, why did she kiss someone else, then wait 3 years to tell you?

Sounds like someone is still in that WS fog to me...
 

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Kissing anyone other than your husband/wife, kids and family members is cheating. Except where society deems it okay to peck the check in greeting. It does not matter the sex of the person.

What bothers me more is that she was shaving her vag before going out. The only time I shave like that is when I am looking for action from my husband.
 

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Confess to your wife that you feel embarrassed by telling her this, but you need to mention it in order to move on. Tell her one night you and a buddy and his girlfriend were hanging out watching tv and, at his girlfriends urging, you and your buddy made out. Tell her you were just experimenting (make the story believable).

Now, stick to that story, be convincing, and sit back to watch the fireworks.


(special note: If there are no fireworks, and your wife finds the story compelling, dump her)
 
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Going out to clubs with out you is a big red flag.

Making out with a "swinger" wife while the "swinger" husband looks on was an invitation to join them. Your wife participated. Why hide it for three years if there is nothing more to it?

The shaving in prep for going out means she expected that area of her body to be touched or at least "inspected".

Are you still in contact with this other couple? If so you might want to call them and tell them your wife, in a fit of guilt confessed all and want to see if they can confirm what she is telling you.

Like "She said sex was only 2 or 3 times and it was only with "swinger" wife while "swinger" husband watched - is this true?"

If they say yes - then it was multiple times with both of them involved.

In my experience, when a cheater confesses after this long of a time, then they fear someone is about to "out" them and they are trying to minimize what actually happened.
 

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OP, think back to when this time was going on. If you were ever home during anytime when your wife went to the clubs, did she ever make a b-line to the bathroom to jump in the shower right away? Edit: Did she jump into the shower when she returned from the club. Forgot to add that part.
 

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She is lying to you. Demand to see her phone and look through her texts, look through her email, etc. If she refuses there's your answer. If you find proof, what are you going to do?

You can also put a keylogger on her computer and not tell her to see what else she's lying about.
 

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She is lying to you. Demand to see her phone and look through her texts, look through her email, etc. If she refuses there's your answer. If you find proof, what are you going to do?

You can also put a keylogger on her computer and not tell her to see what else she's lying about.
OP said it was 3 years ago. That evidence is gone, but it doesn't mean that she isn't still doing this as of today with other people though...
 
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