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Is it over?

5K views 28 replies 17 participants last post by  MattMatt 
#1 ·
Tonight we celebrated our 14th wedding anniversary. The day was actually the 9th, but Thursday is my Friday so I thought we could go out and have a good time.

Some background: 18 years together, 4 children (ages 10, 7, 16 mo, and 4 mo.). We've had a rocky relationship from the beginning. Most of the time it was my choice to leave, when we were dating. We were on and off for 4 yrs before I realized I needed her in my life and popped the question. Around the 8 yr mark I started wandering, nothing ever came of it, but it lead to future issues. I started wondering again in 2016 and beyond, I felt like we'd lost the spark, and no amount of talking was going to resolve it. But we worked through things and stayed together. And then there was last night...

I arranged for someone to watch our kids. I sent her flowers and got home, before her, to ensure the kids were taken care of before we left for the night. The plan was to ha e a good night together, and enjoy each other's company, without worry of the kids, or our problems. A chance to rekindle the flame of love.

I'd made reservations at a restuarant that we'd gone to on our last anniversary, and she was excited. The beginnings of the meal was off to a good start. But as the night progressed the conversation turned to our current issues. While things remained civil, the tension of the night was beginning to build.

She was tired from the long day at work, and though we rarely have a might together she wanted to return home, shower, and get to bed early. Reluctantly, heeded her wishes and drove home. I wanted to stay out, but as we talked during the drive home, I was becoming more upset. When we finally got home, we sat in our parking spot and talked further. Things just got worse.

While we both stated, and understood that the current working situation wasn't ideal, there was still and undertone that I wasn't doing enough to tend to either the kids or my wife. (As a supervisor, if a shift is left vacated I am forced to find someone to fill it, or work it myself. No one is willing to work it, so there I am -- not idyllic with two young ones at home). I admitted. through tears, that I work because that's the only way I feel I'm able to contribute to tending to the family. I'm there emotionally and physically, but when it comes to the daily things that's where my wife takes over.

She said she was sorry for complaining, but she asked me not to be upset. Said I was ruining the evening. Then she said I was making her feel like a heel. She said she loved me, but I need to stop crying so that we could have a nice evening together. So, I compose myself enough to go Inside. As we walk to our apt I can hear her muttering her displeasure. This only upsets me further.

Flashback: she's stated, numerous times, during recent arguements that she wishes she hadn't had kids, or even gotten married. She seems to think that her life.

Our babysitter leaves. My wife showers. The kids get I to bed. My wife goes to bed, without me. And I'm left on the couch with the youngest feeding him, half falling asleep while doing so. 2.5 or more hrs later I wake up with my son in my arms on the couch. I think back on the night's events and cry again. My marriage is over. My wife is more concerned about herself than us (her and me).
 
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#3 ·
I'm not asking for a pity party.
My transgressions are what they are, a mistake, I messed up.
But I want this marriage to work. I truly do. I'd do anything to make her happy. I loose sleep. I work extra hours, so she doesn't have to. I tend to they kiss arty night, so she can re set t, even when I'm dog tired from working OT.
After you saying there's nothing else I can do to right this ship?
 
#17 ·
I'm not asking for a pity party.
My transgressions are what they are, a mistake, I messed up.
But I want this marriage to work. I truly do. I'd do anything to make her happy. I loose sleep. I work extra hours, so she doesn't have to. I tend to they kiss arty night, so she can re set t, even when I'm dog tired from working OT.
After you saying there's nothing else I can do to right this ship?
I'm not asking for a pity party.
My transgressions are what they are, a mistake, I messed up.
But I want this marriage to work. I truly do. I'd do anything to make her happy. I loose sleep. I work extra hours, so she doesn't have to. I tend to they kiss arty night, so she can re set t, even when I'm dog tired from working OT.
After you saying there's nothing else I can do to right this ship?

Well you have your answer. You wandered away from your marriage. If your wife knows then that put the nails in the coffin, if she doesn't know she probably suspected. No person wants to be in a marriage with someone who is not fully committed to them. Hell why should they?
The BS may hang on for the kids but for a WS to have any expectations of love, fun, commitment from a BS when they themselves have basically put a nuclear bomb in the middle of the marriage is stupid and self-centered.
Your wife doesn't enjoy being with you. You want to go out have fun and sweep everything under the carpet, she wants to expose the fissures that were never healed. If the shoe had been on the other foot, would you simply pretend so as to paper over the cracks? You are actually being cruel and a hypocrite. You either agree to be committed, go for counselling or call it quits.
 
#4 ·
Talk with your wife, see if she will agree to go to marriage counseling. That MAY help unless she's gone, in which case it will be a very hard sell to get her back into the marriage.
Instead of giving up YOUR time to work so she doesn't have to, let HER work SOME more and YOU be with the kids. She will get to see YOUR side of things, and you will see HER side a bit better...
 
#5 ·
There is plenty to do to help the marriage, you have responsibilities, 4 children to be a father to and wife to be a husband to. Did you say that she has a job as well as caring for 4 children 2 of whom are just babies? I cant imagine how busy things are, especially with 2 babies just 12 months apart. No wonder she was tired on your date.Who cares for the children all day?
When you can, get some good marriage counselling. Get any thoughts about it being over out of your head.

So you cheated in the past. How many times and does she know?
 
#6 ·
Your marriage is not over. Not yet. It's just hit a bad patch. How did you two handle your affairs? Did you work through them or did you rugsweep? Did you have good times together post-affair or was that the turning point from which it's gotten worse?

How much leeway do you have in how you manage your job? Can you designate your employees to be on-call one day per month so that you can call on the on-call person to come in for a shift? Find a way to offload that emergency work onto your subordinates.

As for your marriage, you need to find a way to get your wife's interest back on you, the man, not the husband. What you're doing now is like a guy in her friend zone from when she was single, doing her homework for her, giving her rides to the store, going shopping with her, everything to suck up to her and for all of his efforts never getting a call up to the majors, always stuck in the friend zone. Then you came along and you did something which got her interested in you. The chumps in the friend zone watched you take her away from them.

You're killing yourself to make life easier for her but that's not building her desire or respect or interest for you. Push some of that work back onto her and this serves two purposes. The first, in a worst case outcome and you get divorced, she's going to be a single mom and all of that work is going to be on her, 100% completely, for when she has the kids. You won't be there to help her on her custody days. The second is that this frees up your time to work on yourself in ways to pique her interest.

Have you read "No More Mister Nice Guy" and "Married Man Sex Life Primer." If not, do so, they will fill in the blanks of what I'm writing about above.

All that said, the details of the affairs and the aftermath in your marriage are going to be crucial to the advice people give you.
 
#8 ·
@jlg07 I've offered to let her work more. I'd be willing to stay home with the kids more if that's what it took! But raven she admits that what she makes wouldn't be enough to cover what I make.

@Diana7 She had a job, part time, but she only has it because what money we have saved (for her to utilize while out on maternity leave) will eventually run dry. So she's slowly working her way back into employment. She does try work every day, or even every week, just when she feels she's able to. And I adore her for trying, but have stated that she doesn't have to work until those funds are depleted.
I cheated, never physically, just in text, but yes, I cheated, and she knows.

@Lance Mannion As for the job, I am but a cog in a bigger wheel. Those whom I manage are working OT already. The problem here is, that the hours are overnight. We had someone covering those hours, but they left when they felt the hours they had weren't flexible. Which, is, in large, my fault too, I guess, the schedule we maintain isn't traditional. And while the pool of people we can fish from is huge, we're just not a plug and play type of place. You need training. And while my managers have sought help for us, there's no one willing to assist. So for now, we're just stuck.
 
#9 · (Edited)
Sounds like you actively seeked out two affairs. She probably just wishes she didn't marry and have kids with you when she says those things because of the hurt you caused her.

Around the 8 yr mark I started wandering,
I started wondering again in 2016 and beyond,
My wife is more concerned about herself than us (her and me).
She is only following your lead. Maybe it's time for you to suck it up like she did, I mean you created these dynamics.

Her time to wonder. You of all people should understand this right?

Sometimes when you cheat particularly when you see the hurt you cause and do it again it kills the love people have for you. I suspect this is a classic case.
 
#13 ·
So there's no atoning for having cyber affairs?

I get that I messed up. And I try to make up for those mistakes every day.
It depends on how SHE dealt with them. She's still in the marriage, so that's a positive sign. You had babies after the affairs, so another positive sign. But did you deal with the affairs or just ignore them? Do they come up in arguments? Everyone is different, for some they are deal breakers, for others not.
 
#16 ·
You want to save your marriage buy this book -


Read it, that would be a good start.
 
#21 · (Edited)
You think she is selfish, but you are equally so, if not more. Cheating (even an EA) is not a mistake it is a choice. "Wandering" also seems to be your action of choice. Actions speak louder than words. Cheating reveals a fundamental flaw in your integrity.

Check your attitude--what do you surmise? Your investment in intimacy and connection with her lacks something, IMO.

You arranged what you thought was a great anniversary experience. BUT, you expected sex in return. Ask her what she would like for a special evening. It might be a period of time from all responsibilities--genuine rest? If you are more in tune with her needs, she may see you in a different light. Sounds like you need more appreciation--hold onto this need while you are working on rebuilding the relationship.
 
#22 ·
OP, we are a rough crowd. It's mostly because we have seen the aftermath of people "wandering away" or some of us have had are partners wander away. Until you have gone through it you don't understand the level of pain and devastation this causes you. You may understand it intellectually but you just have NO IDEA emotionally.

See if you really got that your post would be more like - I have really messed up. I blew up our marriage and understandably I think my wife is done. I tried to fix it but I don't know how. Is it too late? (Not i messed up, but we dealt with that now my wife doesn't care about me.) Frankly love in it's purest form is to want for the person you love more then yourself. See that is the thing, ironically you would have a much better chance with her if your thinking was - if she need to not be with me in order to heal then that is what I have to accept for my actions.

That being said, I really think that is your path to try to save your marriage. Empathy. If you have any chance at all I think you are going to need to really get to the point where your wife believes that you know what your actions have done to her. If she feels safe with you again, maybe she will be willing to open up to you again. This is why I told you to read that book.

I think you also need to understand so you have a check to keep you from doing it again. Assuming you are not a monster (which is not always the case in these situation) for decent people when they really understand emotionally the devastation that infidelity causes they don't want to do it again. This is more then - "I learned my lesson, I would never want to go through the aftermath of that again." It's - "I can't believe that I did that to another human being. The only way I will be able to look myself in the mirror again is to never do something that causes so much pain." If you get there then maybe she will feel safe with you and give you a chance.

That book is a good place to start. Then you can spend some time reading websites where people who have been cheated on, and try to read the threads and identify how you would feel if this happened to you. Then think about how your wife must have felt.

Finally use what you are feeling now to help you. Think about the pain you feel at the thought of losing your wife and your marriage. Now imagine how your wife must have felt when she thought your marriage was fine but stumbled into her husband having inappropriate texts with someone else online. Then think how she felt when she thought you got it and you did it again years later.

Imagine going through what you are going though today, then feeling like you fixed it and then having to go through it again 10 years from now. Would you consider giving up at that point? Would you want to expend the effort? Unfortunately that is where you're at.
 
#23 ·
Tonight we celebrated our 14th wedding anniversary. The day was actually the 9th, but Thursday is my Friday so I thought we could go out and have a good time.

Some background: 18 years together, 4 children (ages 10, 7, 16 mo, and 4 mo.). We've had a rocky relationship from the beginning. Most of the time it was my choice to leave, when we were dating. We were on and off for 4 yrs before I realized I needed her in my life and popped the question. Around the 8 yr mark I started wandering, nothing ever came of it, but it lead to future issues. I started wondering again in 2016 and beyond, I felt like we'd lost the spark, and no amount of talking was going to resolve it. But we worked through things and stayed together. And then there was last night...

I arranged for someone to watch our kids. I sent her flowers and got home, before her, to ensure the kids were taken care of before we left for the night. The plan was to ha e a good night together, and enjoy each other's company, without worry of the kids, or our problems. A chance to rekindle the flame of love.

I'd made reservations at a restuarant that we'd gone to on our last anniversary, and she was excited. The beginnings of the meal was off to a good start. But as the night progressed the conversation turned to our current issues. While things remained civil, the tension of the night was beginning to build.

She was tired from the long day at work, and though we rarely have a might together she wanted to return home, shower, and get to bed early. Reluctantly, heeded her wishes and drove home. I wanted to stay out, but as we talked during the drive home, I was becoming more upset. When we finally got home, we sat in our parking spot and talked further. Things just got worse.

While we both stated, and understood that the current working situation wasn't ideal, there was still and undertone that I wasn't doing enough to tend to either the kids or my wife. (As a supervisor, if a shift is left vacated I am forced to find someone to fill it, or work it myself. No one is willing to work it, so there I am -- not idyllic with two young ones at home). I admitted. through tears, that I work because that's the only way I feel I'm able to contribute to tending to the family. I'm there emotionally and physically, but when it comes to the daily things that's where my wife takes over.

She said she was sorry for complaining, but she asked me not to be upset. Said I was ruining the evening. Then she said I was making her feel like a heel. She said she loved me, but I need to stop crying so that we could have a nice evening together. So, I compose myself enough to go Inside. As we walk to our apt I can hear her muttering her displeasure. This only upsets me further.

Flashback: she's stated, numerous times, during recent arguements that she wishes she hadn't had kids, or even gotten married. She seems to think that her life.

Our babysitter leaves. My wife showers. The kids get I to bed. My wife goes to bed, without me. And I'm left on the couch with the youngest feeding him, half falling asleep while doing so. 2.5 or more hrs later I wake up with my son in my arms on the couch. I think back on the night's events and cry again. My marriage is over. My wife is more concerned about herself than us (her and me).
I just want to give you a little perspective -- what I see with your "hurt" and crying and being upset and stating that your wife cares more about herself than YOUR happiness, etc etc, is YOU trying to make YOUR emotions and feelings and unhappiness your wife's responsibility. What your actions scream is, "Poor Me, you don't love me, you aren't making me feel happy, take care of ME!"...and let me tell you, it's EXHAUSTING to be the target of that kind of "love", because you aren't really focusing on or loving HER at all - you are making everything all about YOU and your feelings...which sounds like a pattern for you.

Her avoidance and reactions to you are her way of trying to protect herself from you smothering her to death with your concern for only YOURSELF. You are making her feel totally and completely ALONE in your marriage, and if this is the only way you can relate to her, YES, your marriage is over.

Flowers aren't even close to what she needs and wants from you. From everything you've written, you sound extremely emotionally immature and selfish -- NO adult woman (or man!) wants to deal with that all the time.
If you want to save your marriage, if you truly love your wife, you need to grow up emotionally and stop expecting her to make you feel good about yourself and your relationship. Everything that you feel isn't all about YOU. Make room in your emotional life for HER to exist and have separate feelings from what yours are.

Have you ever been to counseling? I think you would both really benefit from having help with relating and communicating...but I definitely think YOU should look into talking with a counselor yourself, so you can stop burdening your wife with the responsibility for your emotional needs, and so you have someone who knows how to challenge you so you can grow and mature emotionally.
 
#24 ·
Well, I mean, she's told you, as you said up there, that she thinks you don't do enough to tend to the kids or your wife. And all you did was make a work excuse. You both work, it sounds like as you said she was tired fromwork. You both contribute financially. True, you probably make more money, but that's not her fault women get paid less.

I have seen the root problem of so many marriages be that the man thinks all he should have to do is go to work and bring home money and let the wife do everything else. Those are your kids too. If you divorce, you can look forward to having them 3 1/2 days a week, whether it's convenient to your work situation or not, because that's the norm now. Why not get used to spending that time with them now instead of waiting until you're forced to?
 
#26 ·
It is hard for a wife to move past infidelity. The trust is broken, she doesn't look at the marriage the same. the more she sits at home not working, the more time she has to ruminate about you being - bad person, jiggalo, fucboi, fill-in the blank.

Have you really changed your ways? Even if you are doing everything you can and giving her everything she needs, it will still take years for her to heal. It has been 18 months for me and I still have my bad days. On top of all that, this is you second time- how is she to trust you?

you probably were on your best behavior after the first affair, but that didn't stop you from cheating again. How does she know you are truly a changed man
 
#27 ·
[/QUOTE]
It is hard for a wife to move past infidelity. The trust is broken, she doesn't look at the marriage the same. the more she sits at home not working, the more time she has to ruminate about you being - bad person, jiggalo, fucboi, fill-in the blank.

Have you really changed your ways? Even if you are doing everything you can and giving her everything she needs, it will still take years for her to heal. It has been 18 months for me and I still have my bad days. On top of all that, this is you second time- how is she to trust you?

you probably were on your best behavior after the first affair, but that didn't stop you from cheating again. How does she know you are truly a changed man
Speaking from experience, it's hard for man to move past infidelity too. But I agree with you. Always comes back to men have sex, women make love. So a women who's husband has cheated sees her husband having an emotional connection with another woman. And I imagine that's incredibly difficult to move past...especially when it's happened twice like in OP's case. Like you said, it will take years for her to heal. And she would be a saint for giving him a 3rd chance. Personally, I think she should move on.
 
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