Few, wish to discuss their shortcomings.My recommendation to Mr. PR is to, 1. realize that some women will always cheat. I had a couple of clients, married multiple times, that cheated with me, et al on all their husbands. 2. Understand the fact that PR, by her own admission, flirted throughout her marriage is a dead giveaway she needed more attention from men than he alone could give. Whether it was his negligence to understand women, and provide an acceptable level of want it took, Mrs PR clearly indicated it wasn't cutting the mustard and her romantic interest in him always was, or became insufficient, to make her not seek attention elsewhere. It wouldn't surprise me if Mr. PR was somewhat of a rebound guy 20 years ago.
At any rate, knowing what he knows now, its his own fault if he stays in this situation. Considering the open flirting in front of him and now her affair, he need to consider if he wants to stay with her given the availability of other women. Mrs PR is apparently not willing to accept nor discuss the root cause of her flirting and ultimate doing.
Those "triggered" folk may have the most relevant content here, in terms of PR understanding where her husband's mind may be. Presentation is key; when the "triggered" go into attack mode, it can be ugly. I think mostly the "triggered" feel for a guy who desperately is in need of a type of help and assurance that the WS is not able to related to.Add in some unpleasant and triggered bellyachers!
From my experience, attractive to average, a woman seeking something on the side can get something on the side. The fact that PR found a guy that wanted to bang her does not, in and of itself, indicate where she falls on the attractiveness scale. A women considered a 7 can attract ten times the potential partners and a man considered a 7. A woman generally want someone equivalent to or higher on the quality scale as she is. Men give themselves more latitude. That said, I tend to believe PR's paramour is likely higher quality on the attractiveness scale than she is.For the most part, an attractive woman can "have" a whole lot of men with very little effort. If your interest was primarily sex (which for the sake of argument, we'll assume that's what your husband believes), then you'll have a pretty easy time having that interest satisfied. And your husband knows that.
I'll second that. And I think it's concepts like this that PR can bring to her counselor in hopes of finding a way to address her husband's fear in this regard.There's something that might be really different about a spouse's wife having an affair, than a husband.
For the most part, an attractive woman can "have" a whole lot of men with very little effort. If your interest was primarily sex (which for the sake of argument, we'll assume that's what your husband believes), then you'll have a pretty easy time having that interest satisfied. And your husband knows that.
Your husband, on the other hand, has likely always had insecurities to some degree about sex. You might not realize that, or have tossed such thoughts aside because it's not something many guys would discuss. But he's probably thinking how his attractive wife really has it together sexually and can attract any guy she wants, while he has no such confidence in his own abilities at all. A guy is trained to do what he can to take care of the family so his wife sticks around. Seriously, this is a thing. A guy just doesn't have anywhere near the sexual confidence a woman might have. And even if the woman doesn't have that confidence, the guy believes she does.
So your affair taps into your husband's very worst fears.
AmenPR also can’t understand it because her self esteem and view of her own attractiveness hasn’t been torn down by her spouse. Her AP reinforced that she is attractive (to him anyways) and that she is still readily able to snare another man. She can walk around day to day with that confidence. She already said it would be no problem for her to find someone else. That shows she has an element of arrogance to her personality. The husband is left questioning the last twenty years of his life. He’s left questioning his identity, his attractiveness, his sexual prowess, and his sense of manhood in general. She has torn him down with her selfish actions.
And she says she’s here fighting against other peoples demons, ha.
The problem is that PR can't and/or won't bring to a counselor things she either isn't aware of or make her feel worse about herself. This is stuff a counselor needs to be proactive about and assume is the case. How many counselors would do that? Especially since the IC is looking first and foremost at improving their client's self esteem and sense of worth. If you go in beating yourself up, the counselor is more likely to say hey, stop doing that, you have to look out for yourself too, as opposed to yeah, you've screwed up badly and have a ton of work to get through and it's going to be really unpleasant. And then an MC is going to be trying to apportion blame to each party, saying nobody's completely at fault.I'll second that. And I think it's concepts like this that PR can bring to her counselor in hopes of finding a way to address her husband's fear in this regard.
Unlike PRs husband, it wasn't until I packed my ex's bags that she remembered that I existed. The playing field has been leveled, and she was suddenly interested in what I was doing and where I was.
What PR hasn't experienced is losing her husband's full dedication. Anything less could be so much crap for her. I hope that she doesn't lose sight of this.
I take it at face value that PR came here looking for answers. I believe that the last she said about the counselors is that she is going to IC, and her H doesn't want counseling.The problem is that PR can't and/or won't bring to a counselor things she either isn't aware of or make her feel worse about herself. This is stuff a counselor needs to be proactive about and assume is the case. How many counselors would do that? Especially since the IC is looking first and foremost at improving their client's self esteem and sense of worth. If you go in beating yourself up, the counselor is more likely to say hey, stop doing that, you have to look out for yourself too, as opposed to yeah, you've screwed up badly and have a ton of work to get through and it's going to be really unpleasant. And then an MC is going to be trying to apportion blame to each party, saying nobody's completely at fault.
And of course, this is just what I've heard "from a friend."
Ouch. Even the heavily-triggered folk here can deliver this message with a bit more hope.PR I have read your entire thread - from the beginning where you demurely said you did something wrong with a man at work involving the "F" word (jeez!) and blaming it on stress, the pandemic and everything under the sun (apart from your compulsion to cheat and flirt and the lust in your loins at the time), right through to your current stance of being defensive, attacking anyone who calls a spade a spade and being rebellious against having to pay the piper in terms of behaviour and transparency,
Yours is actually a quite simple case and even though you say otherwise, here is the perceived truth and what comes across:
- You cheated because you wanted to. And it is convenient to blame it on a number of things.
- You have a background of doing what you want.
- You claim to love your husband but do not really know what that means and yes, you do value your friends over him. I would go so far as to say that you would probably think twice about cheating on your friends, but unfortunately, not so with your husband.
- You claim to understand the depth and impact of the wrong-doing but nothing you have said really supports this. Sure there are some that have tried to condone what you have done by armchair psycho-analysis as to the "hurt" you must have been in and are still in. That is just plain harmful to you! Also you say that if the situation was reversed you would be devastated. All of this suggests you really need some real help from a recommended analyst and not, as others have advised you too, someone who says what you want to hear so that you keep coming back.
- You clearly fancied this OM and still do. Yet you still try to make light of it as if it was really nothing,
- You do not really want to do what is needed to repair this marriage and convince your husband that you really deserve to stay. You feel resentful towards the things that you need to do.
- Your flippant style of writing might be annoying but it also suggests a lack of real remorse and empathy for your husband,
You should consider that you would really be better off being divorced and should grant your husband an amicable divorce. Then go work on the selfish nature that seems to dominate your actions and please, do not jump into a long term relationship with any unsuspecting man until you are fixed. After all, you do not need to be in a marriage right?
I think that post was spot on reality - lets not sugar coat what we're seeing hereOuch. Even the heavily-triggered folk here can deliver this message with a bit more hope.
From reading between the lines they are still together but that’s about it. It’s a pattern. Stay together as roommates.I don't think Mrs. W. will be of much help. The last I heard, Mr. W. has entered the plain of lethal flatness and neither he nor his wife are happy about it. Five years down the drain.
I would like to point out that Mrs. W took the same approach to revenge affairs as the OP. Mrs. W went so far as to say she might divorce Mr. W if he engaged in one. It seems rather obvious that when one person feels entitled to behavior that they prohibit their spouse from engaging in, then one person is going to feel like they got the short end of the stick. Entitlement and resentment will kill a marriage. Do not put yourself above your partner.From reading between the lines they are still together but that’s about it. It’s a pattern. Stay together as roommates.
and blaming it on stress
I'm beginning to believe that PR has been under a lot of stress for a long time. Her level of defensiveness is so high.Your flippant style of writing
If you just read PR's entire thread...PR I have read your entire thread
They met at work.If you just read PR's entire thread...
I thought that I read one of PRs posts that said that her and her AP first met on the phone and became friends because they shared a common enemy. Then somehow met at yoga they had in the building, and that somehow his mat would always end up by hers.
Did you read that in PR's discussion here?
I'm older now and I might have some threads crossed.