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So if a partner quiet quits on the other, essentially becomes single in the marriage, isn't that partner cheating the other of a healthy fulfilling relationship?
Yes, but the other partner doesn’t have to tolerate the “quietness.” But many do out of fear of losing that person or marriage. I kind of think divorce is too difficult from a legal perspective, and not that it should be “easy,” but the fear of a divorce and a painful legal battle, often keeps people in these situations, I feel.

It also seems like usually only one of the spouses stands to benefit in divorce - so depending on the situation, it keeps people remaining in these dysfunctional relationships.

So if it were a less arduous process, I don’t think people would tolerate adultery, abuse, and neglect as much as they do.
 

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So hears a thought. Is it possible to cheat inversely within a relationship? Example; a couple that's been married now for 10 or years, couple kids, average life style, nothing of note on the outside. However on the inside one of the couple has just quit in the relationship, withdrawn emotionally. When the other trys to work it out the other just doesn't participate. Only when the threat of leaving occurs do they show an attempt at trying, manipulating the others feeling and then continue on.
This continues till the other partner feels trapped and so isolated that they sadly seek solace with another, yes either EA/PA or both.
Who's really at fault in a situation such as this? Both? The one who finally steps out, or the other who drove their partner to step out?
Seems a little more shades than just black and white. What's your thoughts?
Most marriages whatever break that happens has two parts or sides.

However, the cheater is responsible for the cheating. The other partner is responsible for checking out or being mean or what have you.

Cheating for whatever reason though seems to more permanently break a relationship than any other form of marital mistakes.

So fault? Fault lies with the person who takes the action. So the cheater needs to own their action.

The breakdown of the marriage is most likely split between the two.
 

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So hears a thought. Is it possible to cheat inversely within a relationship? Example; a couple that's been married now for 10 or years, couple kids, average life style, nothing of note on the outside. However on the inside one of the couple has just quit in the relationship, withdrawn emotionally. When the other trys to work it out the other just doesn't participate. Only when the threat of leaving occurs do they show an attempt at trying, manipulating the others feeling and then continue on.
This continues till the other partner feels trapped and so isolated that they sadly seek solace with another, yes either EA/PA or both.
Who's really at fault in a situation such as this? Both? The one who finally steps out, or the other who drove their partner to step out?
Seems a little more shades than just black and white. What's your thoughts?
It depends. If one partner unilaterally shuts down communication, intimacy or whatever it is and the other person was very clear that they will not continue the marriage like this, and if nothing changes, the person has every right to step out. I don't think that person has to wait for the divorce to be finalized before trying to meet someone else. In my state, it's mandatory one year before divorce.
 

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It depends. If one partner unilaterally shuts down communication, intimacy or whatever it is and the other person was very clear that they will not continue the marriage like this, and if nothing changes, the person has every right to step out. I don't think that person has to wait for the divorce to be finalized before trying to meet someone else. In my state, it's mandatory one year before divorce.
That's different to sleeping with someone else while still living as if married with your spouse. My husband was separated when we met. His ex was living with someone else, the marriage was long dead, divorce was merely a formality at that point. I don't consider that cheating.
 

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It depends. If one partner unilaterally shuts down communication, intimacy or whatever it is and the other person was very clear that they will not continue the marriage like this, and if nothing changes, the person has every right to step out. I don't think that person has to wait for the divorce to be finalized before trying to meet someone else. In my state, it's mandatory one year before divorce.
Agree, but in a case like that it should be done openly.
 

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Marriage is a contract, and they're still breaking it. Cheating is cowardly.
Only if it’s done with secrecy and lying, Which is usually the case, hence “cheating”

But if the contract has already been existentially broken by one spout, and the other spouse decides they will no longer honor their commitment to a contract that no longer exists, and they are upfront and above board about it, I don’t necessarily have a problem with it.
 

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There are natural forces in the cosmos that don’t really adhere to a personal or societal assigned value of morality.

In other words, you are trying to say that one wrong is wronger than another - not that either will make it right morally,,, but nature will often take its own course.

If one is knowingly denying their partner and knowingly not making good faith effort to meet their partner’s needs, they know that eventually their partner will try to get there needs met whether they divorce first or not.

So here the thing we need to keep in mind - the person refusing the others needs has the right to divorce too.

They could have chosen to either try to address their partners needs or could have chosen to divorce them before being placed into the position of being cheated on after denying their partner for years.

Instead they chose to knowingly reject and deny the one the claimed to love and honor continuously while still extracting utility as a husband/wife appliance from them while knowingly making them suffer -

— - And then when that person does leave or get their needs met elsewhere, they cry victomhood with righteous indignation.

I’m sorry, I’m not going to shed any tears here.

If that person did not like the other and doesn’t want to be with them and can’t be bothered to lift a finger to try to address their needs or address the issues, don’t come crying to me.
They had every bit as much right to leave before reaching that point as well.
 

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There are natural forces in the cosmos that don’t really adhere to a personal or societal assigned value of morality.

In other words, you are trying to say that one wrong is wronger than another - not that either will make it right morally,,, but nature will often take its own course.

If one is knowingly denying their partner and knowingly not making good faith effort to meet their partner’s needs, they know that eventually their partner will try to get there needs met whether they divorce first or not.

So here the thing we need to keep in mind - the person refusing the others needs has the right to divorce too.

They could have chosen to either try to address their partners needs or could have chosen to divorce them before being placed into the position of being cheated on after denying their partner for years.

Instead they chose to knowingly reject and deny the one the claimed to love and honor continuously while still extracting utility as a husband/wife appliance from them while knowingly making them suffer -

— - And then when that person does leave or get their needs met elsewhere, they cry victomhood with righteous indignation.

I’m sorry, I’m not going to shed any tears here.

If that person did not like the other and doesn’t want to be with them and can’t be bothered to lift a finger to try to address their needs or address the issues, don’t come crying to me.
They had every bit as much right to leave before reaching that point as well.
So your main point is, when someone feels they are treated poorly, they are justified in acting like a spineless coward.

Why does one ever need to use the yardstick of any other person’s behavior, to measure how decent of a person they should be?

How can you possibly know whether the cheater was in fact actually a poor neglected baby, or an impossible to please spoiled little beotch?

Just get a damn divorce and then go fix your unmet needs with a hundred different people if you want. If you can’t do that because you’re a coward, then at least be assertive and honest enough to tell the truth about what you’re going to do. “I’m going to go bang Sally. She makes better lasagna than you do.” At least you are then just a coward and not a lying coward.
 

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So your main point is, when someone feels they are treated poorly, they are justified in acting like a spineless coward.

Why does one ever need to use the yardstick of any other person’s behavior, to measure how decent of a person they should be?

How can you possibly know whether the cheater was in fact actually a poor neglected baby, or an impossible to please spoiled little beotch?

Just get a damn divorce and then go fix your unmet needs with a hundred different people if you want. If you can’t do that because you’re a coward, then at least be assertive and honest enough to tell the truth about what you’re going to do. “I’m going to go bang Sally. She makes better lasagna than you do.” At least you are then just a coward and not a lying coward.
I’m talking about people that knowingly neglect, deny and reject their partner’s needs and do not want to have an intimate relationship with them, yet still expect them to remain as essentially a domestic servant and/or some to share the rent and utilities.

So who’s the real coward??

If someone does not like their partner and does not want to try to meet their needs and does not want to ever be intimate with them, then why don’t they divorce their partner instead of being a spineless coward and keeping them around for their domestic labors and financial assistance whilst telling them they must stay and endure and that their needs are irrelevant???

IMHO if someone knowingly denies and rejects their partner and knowingly disregards their needs yet expects them to remain, then they get what they get and no tear shall shed from this eye.

If you ( not you you specifically) knowingly neglect your partner’s needs and refuse or don’t care enough to address them, then maybe they will play by your rules and dump you first…. Or maybe they won’t.

Either way you should know and expect that as a natural outcome to your own behaviors.
 

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How can you possibly know whether the cheater was in fact actually a poor neglected baby, or an impossible to please spoiled little beotch?
In someone else’s marriage, I won’t know.

But I know if I have done my due diligence in my own marriage or not.

If knowingly refuse or neglect to address my partner’s needs, then I waive my right to expect them to remain with me and waive my right to expect strict sexual exclusivity and I do not get to pick whether they dump my azz first or find someone else first.

I waived that right when I rejected them for for a year (I’m just picking an arbitrary timeline, but for me, a year is a clear cut, obvious deal breaker where all bets are off and one gets what they get)

Sorry, not sorry.
 

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So your main point is, when someone feels they are treated poorly, they are justified in acting like a spineless coward.

Why does one ever need to use the yardstick of any other person’s behavior, to measure how decent of a person they should be?
No.

My point is when someone does knowingly treat the other person poorly, they cannot and should not expect the other to play by the Nice Guy/Nice Girl rules.

The rejected partner might play by the rules if they so choose.

But the one would not only be a jerk but also a fool to treat someone bad and expect the other to play fair.

If I walk into a bar and sucker punch someone in the face, I would be a fool to expect them to fight fair according to Golden Glove Boxing rules.
 

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Lemme condense that all down.

If someone knowingly neglects, denies and rejects their partner’s needs and refuses to try to do anything about - they do not get to pick and choose how their partner deals with that.
 

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No.

My point is when someone does knowingly treat the other person poorly, they cannot and should not expect the other to play by the Nice Guy/Nice Girl rules.

The rejected partner might play by the rules if they so choose.

But the one would not only be a jerk but also a fool to treat someone bad and expect the other to play fair.

If I walk into a bar and sucker punch someone in the face, I would be a fool to expect them to fight fair according to Golden Glove Boxing rules.
I mean, I am trying to see your point. I just think there are WAY too many variables that rely on perspective or point of view. Very rarely is there a cheater who is ACTUALLY in this situation, but every cheater will SAY they are. Their perspectives cannot be trusted regardless. And from what I’ve seen, much of the time the one doing these behaviors IS the cheater. So, I don’t know. I guess if I actually saw this dynamic play out I could consider this point of view more realistically.

I would compare it more to… a person finds a job and is treated like crap and paid horribly, but they steal from the petty cash instead of quitting. A sucker punch at a bar has no standards or vows or promises exchanged in the beginning.
 

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I mean, I am trying to see your point. I just think there are WAY too many variables that rely on perspective or point of view. Very rarely is there a cheater who is ACTUALLY in this situation, but every cheater will SAY they are. Their perspectives cannot be trusted regardless. And from what I’ve seen, much of the time the one doing these behaviors IS the cheater. So, I don’t know. I guess if I actually saw this dynamic play out I could consider this point of view more realistically.

I would compare it more to… a person finds a job and is treated like crap and paid horribly, but they steal from the petty cash instead of quitting. A sucker punch at a bar has no standards or vows or promises exchanged in the beginning.
It’s a slippery slope. I realize it’s black and white and there are always shades of grey, but sometimes you need certain things to be black and white. Like you say, when someone wants to have their cake and eat it too, they will make their “reality” fit to justify it.
 

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I mean, I am trying to see your point. I just think there are WAY too many variables that rely on perspective or point of view. Very rarely is there a cheater who is ACTUALLY in this situation, but every cheater will SAY they are. Their perspectives cannot be trusted regardless. And from what I’ve seen, much of the time the one doing these behaviors IS the cheater. So, I don’t know. I guess if I actually saw this dynamic play out I could consider this point of view more realistically.

I would compare it more to… a person finds a job and is treated like crap and paid horribly, but they steal from the petty cash instead of quitting. A sucker punch at a bar has no standards or vows or promises exchanged in the beginning.
If you are trying to judge OTHER people’s marriages and other people’s infidelity, it just ain’t gonna work. It will always be he said/she said.

But you know if you have done your own due diligence in your own marriage or not. And you know if you partner is an entitled, selfish jerk or not.

I think unless someone is a true psychopath which make up a tiny percentage of the population, people know if they are being a jerk or not.

Abusers know they are abusive.

The selfish and entitled know they are selfish and entitled.

$lut$ know their $lut$ and players know they’re players.

These people that deny and reject their partners for a year know that they are either going to leave them or get it somewhere else.

And the ones that deny and reject their partner for a year, but their partner DOESN’S leave or get it somewhere else,,,, rather than being grateful and appreciative of their faithfulness, actually lose even MORE respect and esteem for them and look upon them as even more pathetic.

So no, I have virtually no sympathy for them and don’t want their crocodile tears anywhere around me.

In fact I’ll go so far as saying that people staying and tolerating it is part of the problem and just perpetuates the entitlement of the rejectors.
 

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Discussion Starter · #37 ·
There are natural forces in the cosmos that don’t really adhere to a personal or societal assigned value of morality.

In other words, you are trying to say that one wrong is wronger than another - not that either will make it right morally,,, but nature will often take its own course.

If one is knowingly denying their partner and knowingly not making good faith effort to meet their partner’s needs, they know that eventually their partner will try to get there needs met whether they divorce first or not.

So here the thing we need to keep in mind - the person refusing the others needs has the right to divorce too.

They could have chosen to either try to address their partners needs or could have chosen to divorce them before being placed into the position of being cheated on after denying their partner for years.

Instead they chose to knowingly reject and deny the one the claimed to love and honor continuously while still extracting utility as a husband/wife appliance from them while knowingly making them suffer -

— - And then when that person does leave or get their needs met elsewhere, they cry victomhood with righteous indignation.

I’m sorry, I’m not going to shed any tears here.

If that person did not like the other and doesn’t want to be with them and can’t be bothered to lift a finger to try to address their needs or address the issues, don’t come crying to me.
They had every bit as much right to leave before reaching that point as well.
This a very good analysis of that condition. As I stated this is just a what if scenario based of of issues that have been posted here.
 

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So hears a thought. Is it possible to cheat inversely within a relationship? Example; a couple that's been married now for 10 or years, couple kids, average life style, nothing of note on the outside. However on the inside one of the couple has just quit in the relationship, withdrawn emotionally. When the other trys to work it out the other just doesn't participate. Only when the threat of leaving occurs do they show an attempt at trying, manipulating the others feeling and then continue on.
This continues till the other partner feels trapped and so isolated that they sadly seek solace with another, yes either EA/PA or both.
Who's really at fault in a situation such as this? Both? The one who finally steps out, or the other who drove their partner to step out?
Seems a little more shades than just black and white. What's your thoughts?
Interesting that everyone gives such harsh criticism on a hypothetical.. I do think that the cheater is the cheater. If they need to go outside the marriage then get the divorce before acting. At the same time, someone suddenly withdrawing from a marriage is not normal and working to try and fix the withdrawal, or at least trying to, would be the right thing to do.
 

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Hey is a thought. Doesn't mean it's the smartest. Just trying to be all sides. Sometimes things go south for the craziest reasons. Our minds are capable of many things.
When women mentally and emotionally check out from a marriage, is most cases the wives will at sometime either cheat or leave. When husbands are concerned, there is still hope of saving the marriage because men are not so emotional. (Fact).
Women will rarely leave a marriage to become worse off. Most will already have a plan B. Most will already have another partner lined up.
It becomes a scenario of, I love you but I`m NO LONGER IN LOVE WITH YOU.
I`ve heard and seen this countless times during my lifetime.
In my opinion, cheating and living a life of deceit, deception and lies with a partner is in the top list of domestic abuse.
If no longer in love with a partner, LEAVE.
 
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