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Discussion Starter #101
Buddy you are only paying lip service to the advice people are giving you.
In my opinion you would take your wife back tomorrow if she asked.
Now that’s your choice and I’m not going to argue with you but I will tell you three things.
1. You are depressed.
2. You’re wife is **** testing you and asking for your truck was a clear sign of this,as was showing you that she was with her new boyfriend on his boat.
3. You are showing your daughter a terrible example of how marriage works. She sees her mother with a different guy every few weeks and all the while her Dad is waiting at the sideline for her to come back to him.

I'm not trying to only pay lip service. I don't think I could take her back. How could I ever trust her again?

1. Yeah, sometimes. But this forum gets 100% of the depression, so it seems like a lot more than it really is most days. I've come a long way.

2. That's very red pill. I don't see relationships in this way.

3. I'm not waiting at the sideline. I filed the divorce.
 

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Discussion Starter #102
@SunWhiskey,

A couple of things:

1) You may have had a tidiness pet peeve, and maybe an accountability pet peeve (former military, right?)...but those are not things that "drive a person to adultery." What drives a person to commit adultery is something inside themselves that is broken and too self-focused, and I say that as someone who is a former wayward who worked hard and straightened out my mind! So next time you're thinking that something you did "drove her to it" just stop yourself right there! STOP and remind yourself that is was a flaw in her character that caused her to choose adultery--it was NOT something you did or did not do.

2) She has fired you from the job of "husband," and she has done that in both word and action. Now, in her head, what she thinks that means is that she loses all the "costs" of being with you, but she gets to keep all the "benefits" of you and keep you as her Plan B. So far, your actions have confirmed her thoughts! So when we tell you to detach, and to end contact, we aren't telling you this to be spiteful or to be mean-spirited. Nope, we are telling you to take those actions so that YOU regain your own self-esteem, and SHE experiences the natural consequences of firing you from the job of "husband" (namely, that not only does she no longer have to endure your tidiness...but she also no longer gains your truck, your babysitting, your finances, etc.). Does this make sense? She made a CHOICE. It is right and reasonable and mature to allow her to experience the benefit AND THE COST of the choice she freely made. The cost of firing you from the job of "husband" means that she no longer gets the good stuff about you.

Also, note to self: the good stuff about you is not enough to win her back...not because you're "good stuff" is lacking or insufficient, but rather because her thinking is not based on reality and is skewed. Her values and character are such that committing adultery is "okay"--yours just is not. So you can't win her back with your "good stuff." Part of your job right now is to accept the fact that it will never be "the way it was."

3) Finally point: if you want something for Father's Day--say that. If you honestly don't care, THEN you say what you said "...you don't have to..." What you did here was essentially a test: I'll see how much I mean to her. Well you set her up for it, and then got all butthurt when she showed you by her actions that a) she believed you and b) you don't mean that much. Okay? So don't play these games. Be mature. If you want her to help your child get Father's Day stuff...then say that. It's reasonable. "Hey, I made the effort to teach our child that it's courteous to honor you on Mother's Day, and I'd appreciate if you would do the same for me for Father's Day. Please make the effort to teach this to our child." Also, bear in mind that it is her job TO TEACH THE CHILD to honor you, not for HER to honor you. She has been exceedingly consistent and clear: she DOES NOT honor you. Time to accept that--mourn it--and move on.

Next duty station, soldier.
1) Thanks, that's good to hear. Yes, former military.

2) So not letting her use my truck was the right course of action. When she asked, I should have said no. And then, when I ask for something like my daughter for a random evening when she's not in my custody, she gets to say no. It seems like that could play out badly.

3) Yes, my mistake. I was wrong in my approach. I truly wasn't attempting to play any games.
 

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2) So not letting her use my truck was the right course of action. When she asked, I should have said no. And then, when I ask for something like my daughter for a random evening when she's not in my custody, she gets to say no. It seems like that could play out badly.
Your daughter and your truck are not even close to the same thing. The truck is your personal belonging, to which she no longer gets the privilege of access.

If you want the ex to cooperate about time with your daughter, then you need to be willing to reciprocate that. I never had one single issue with my daughter spending time with her dad's family even during the time she was supposed to be with me. I didnt want her to ever miss out on anything with family. And if her dad needed to change up a day or a weekend here or there, I was always open for that, mainly because I would need the same favor returned now and then. Co-parenting is a whole different beast than you being her whipping boy.
 

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2) So not letting her use my truck was the right course of action. When she asked, I should have said no. And then, when I ask for something like my daughter for a random evening when she's not in my custody, she gets to say no. It seems like that could play out badly.
This is a good example of what's called "stinkin' thinkin' " and that means that the way you're thinking about this isn't utterly healthy for you. Here's what I mean: You are thinking of it like you have to BUY or PAY FOR access to your own child. Maybe you think in this manner on your own...maybe she (STBX) taught you that in order to get something you had to pay a price first. Either way, now that you are going to no longer be with STBX, this is a very good time for you to work on your thought patterns and get them into healthy self-worth.

For instance, if you say 'no' to letting her use whatever she wants of yours whenever she wants it--and you are punished by withholding access to your child--that is actually abusive, punative, and verging on alienation in my opinion. She fired you from the role of "husband" so access to all of YOU and YOUR STUFF is now no longer hers to demand.

Here's a quick trick for figuring this out: get to a point where you think of her as the bank teller or the grocery store clerk. You see them regularly, they are women "in your life"... but you would never EVER think that if you didn't loan the bank teller your truck, she would do something to punish you. She probably wouldn't ask, and if she did, you'd be surprised and be able to say 'no' easily! The trick is to start viewing and treating your STBX as if she was the teller at the bank. Sure, you're polite. Sure, you're courteous. But you don't snoop on the bank teller's FB page or feel sad because the teller didn't get you Father's Day stuff... she's just some lady!

So when your STBX asks or wants or "NEEDS" or demands something from you, just ask yourself, "Would the bank teller ask me for this? Would I say yes? Would I want to say yes or be all conflicted about saying no?" See how that helps make it clear when STBX is using you and when it's a normal request from a decent human being?

3) Yes, my mistake. I was wrong in my approach. I truly wasn't attempting to play any games.
Okay cool. Now you know better. Nothing wrong with a mistake--just learn from it and do better next time. I personally like to phrase it like a request: "Well...could I make a request? I actually would like some acknowledgment for Father's day so would you be willing to help our daughter do that?" STBX could always answer 'no' in which case you ask your mom or a buddy to help your daughter.
 

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Discussion Starter #105
Your daughter and your truck are not even close to the same thing. The truck is your personal belonging, to which she no longer gets the privilege of access.

If you want the ex to cooperate about time with your daughter, then you need to be willing to reciprocate that. I never had one single issue with my daughter spending time with her dad's family even during the time she was supposed to be with me. I didnt want her to ever miss out on anything with family. And if her dad needed to change up a day or a weekend here or there, I was always open for that, mainly because I would need the same favor returned now and then. Co-parenting is a whole different beast than you being her whipping boy.
I guess I just didn't see the issue in letter her use my truck.
 

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Discussion Starter #106
So when your STBX asks or wants or "NEEDS" or demands something from you, just ask yourself, "Would the bank teller ask me for this? Would I say yes? Would I want to say yes or be all conflicted about saying no?" See how that helps make it clear when STBX is using you and when it's a normal request from a decent human being?



Okay cool. Now you know better. Nothing wrong with a mistake--just learn from it and do better next time. I personally like to phrase it like a request: "Well...could I make a request? I actually would like some acknowledgment for Father's day so would you be willing to help our daughter do that?" STBX could always answer 'no' in which case you ask your mom or a buddy to help your daughter.
I know I know. I'm wrong for caring but I do.
 

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Having no expectations of anyone seems like I am shafting myself of how I'm expecting to be treated.

Knowing what you do and don't deserve is usually addressed as a good thing on these forums? If there were no expectations, this place wouldn't exist.
Why do you have to 'deserve' treatment from anyone? Seems like you place too much emphasis on what people do for you, think about you, or say about you.

I have something that will help. Read this book, then report back at what you learned: No More Mr Nice Guy.
 

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That's what I've realized today.

Don't have many others to talk to. Yes I have friends and family, but none that I mesh with as well as my almost EX WIFE. Politically, socially, day to day views. So any time we do talk, the conversation is generally good conversation (not about our relationship, etc.). In periods where I've not spoke with her trying to do "no contact", I've missed that connection. I certainly didn't feel any better about the situation.
But you are not in control here. SHE gets to decide if she still talks to you. And once she starts pulling back - and she will as she will need you less and less as her Plan B - you are going to go all clingy and obsessive in your attempt to pull her back in. Which will make you even MORE unattractive to her.

If you can see yourself being a friend to her for the rest of your life, fine. Go for that. But you have to be willing to ditch the "I want her back" part.
 

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What you fail to grasp is that @3Xnocharm, @Affaircare and @tunera are three women trying to help you. All you seem to do is argue with them with a dose of snark on the side.

Sun Whiskey I’m not a counselor. I’m a stinking lawyer but a lawyer whose office has been a open door for guys just like you.

You seem to be a very sharp guy with many different skills and talents but you are a complete neophyte in dealing with your STBXW. The way you are engaging her will always lead to manipulation on her part and you being a doormat. Don’t be that guy. The only thing you owe her is civility. She has fired you from your job as husband. You have no obligation to her. You do not need her to make you happy. Only you can make you happy.

Read the short book @tunera linked for you. Then read Hold On To Your N.U.T.S.

You can do this. You have the ability to say no to your STBXW. I would be willing to wager that she may whine and fuss but she will ultimately come to respect the power of No.
 

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I guess I just didn't see the issue in letter her use my truck.
Nor do I. I loan possessions to people I don't have deep emotional attachments or lifetime commitments to.

It seems to be a common opinion here and elsewhere that your ex needs to be an enemy, I don't agree. I'm happy to be on amicable terms w/ my ex and I know a lot of people for whom this works. We had a multi-tiered relationship, and the top tier didn't work so we discontinued it.

But when you find yourself fantasizing you'll go back to some deep emotional attachment, you need to reality check yourself. Personally, the Mother's Day/Father's Day stuff seems like going too far down the attachment trail to me, but you will have to decide for yourself when you're just being acquaintances and when you're setting yourself up for heartache. If you get it wrong, it isn't us who will suffer.
 

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Norman, he is trying to create a stable relationship with his STBX, whatever relationship that may end up being. As such, he needs to (1) come to terms with the fact that she is not choosing him and (2) come to terms with what that relationship will look like. By remaining her Plan B - i.e. making her desertion an easy one - he gives her no reason to come home, he gives her no opportunity to have consequences that will cause her to stop and think about what she's doing, and he sets a precedent about what life after divorce will look like. And if this is any indication, she'll throw him just enough of a bone that he doesn't give up and he'll spend the next 10 years of his life hanging on, hanging around, and wishing and hoping he gets another chance. He needs to MENTALLY break apart from her - no matter if they get back together or not - so that he approaches such things as loaning a truck from a position of power. Once he is able to not get pulled back in, sure, go ahead and see if you want to help her out. But right now? When she's flaunting her 'men' all over the place and in his face? No, she hasn't earned that right. And he needs distance from her to reach this mental place.

We're not saying she is the enemy. We're saying she is NOT his problem anymore because of HER choices and HER actions. So he needs to respond appropriately.
 

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Discussion Starter #115
I've made massive improvements from where I was to where I am emotionally. Because of that, I really don't think I need to cut off all levels of relationship from her to continue moving forward, but I could be wrong. I certainly haven't been divorced before.

From where I was 3 months or so ago (unable to sleep, eat, etc) to where I am now (normal most days), makes me think time is the only real answer. At this rate, I don't see how I could be pining for her in 10 years. I really don't think I'm in plan B territory. Our intimate relationship is over. I'm definitely at terms with that fact. I don't want to put myself through a pain like that ever again if I can help it, and I know she caused it.


Just pondering...but on a similar but opposite example, when my dad divorced my mom, he cut all contact. It's been 18 years and they have spoken maybe twice. She still pines for him. Being cut off didn't help her get over him. That can't be all there is to the equation.
 

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Norman, he is trying to create a stable relationship with his STBX, whatever relationship that may end up being. As such, he needs to (1) come to terms with the fact that she is not choosing him and (2) come to terms with what that relationship will look like. By remaining her Plan B - i.e. making her desertion an easy one -
What does giving someone an easy exit have to do w/ being Plan B? I think we all agree he is better off w/o her, if so, let her go. IMO he should let her go, and should not be her backup plan.
he gives her no reason to come home, he gives her no opportunity to have consequences that will cause her to stop and think about what she's doing,
None of that matters any more. If your car is totalled, don't worry about changing the oil.
and he sets a precedent about what life after divorce will look like. And if this is any indication, she'll throw him just enough of a bone that he doesn't give up and he'll spend the next 10 years of his life hanging on, hanging around, and wishing and hoping he gets another chance. He needs to MENTALLY break apart from her - no matter if they get back together or not -
I agree he should come to terms w/ the fact that the romance is over. Some people can do that w/o cutting off all contact, some can't. Some of the stuff he says makes me suspect he hasn't really accepted that yet. That is what is important IMO.
so that he
approaches such things as loaning a truck from a position of power. Once he is able to not get pulled back in, sure, go ahead and see if you want to help her out. But right now? When she's flaunting her 'men' all over the place and in his face? No, she hasn't earned that right. And he needs distance from her to reach this mental place.

We're not saying she is the enemy. We're saying she is NOT his problem anymore because of HER choices and HER actions. So he needs to respond appropriately.
She will never have the right to borrow his truck, he will do it as a favor or not at all. If he is over the romance, he won't care who she sleeps with. And power will be a moot point.
 

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I've made massive improvements from where I was to where I am emotionally. Because of that, I really don't think I need to cut off all levels of relationship from her to continue moving forward, but I could be wrong. I certainly haven't been divorced before.

From where I was 3 months or so ago (unable to sleep, eat, etc) to where I am now (normal most days), makes me think time is the only real answer. At this rate, I don't see how I could be pining for her in 10 years. I really don't think I'm in plan B territory. Our intimate relationship is over. I'm definitely at terms with that fact. I don't want to put myself through a pain like that ever again if I can help it, and I know she caused it.


Just pondering...but on a similar but opposite example, when my dad divorced my mom, he cut all contact. It's been 18 years and they have spoken maybe twice. She still pines for him. Being cut off didn't help her get over him. That can't be all there is to the equation.
I'm glad you're feeling better. I found divorce to be very stressful, and mine didn't have a lot of the fireworks yours did.

I don't think you should ever have any romance w/ her again, she has shown herself to be very bad in that department. Fooled you once, shame on her.

Different things work for different people when it comes to post divorce relationships. Some people really can't move on w/o cutting off like your parents did. Others can, and do.

Most of us are happy to talk to you about this, but posting stuff is a lot less direct than an hour of back-and-forth w/ a counselor. You might want to consider that.
 

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It's good that you have a dream or a goal. When I started my business I bought used equipment for 25% the cost of new. You can always look into renting equipment as needed.

Keep working towards your dreams and goals.
 
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