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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
So, my wife left the house two months ago. She found an apartment nearby and the kids are spending a week here and a week there. She says she is 'done' and the relationship is over. She has never used the word divorce, tho.

When we see a counselor, she says is only there to work on being co-parents and not to try and reconcile. When I ask, so OK then, where are the D papers; she says she is not skipping to that step right away and that D is extreme. At the last meeting she said that just because she is doing this doesn't mean she likes it. She said she realizes that she will hurt people, and named me and the kids. We went in that meeting with the intention of getting his help settling some financial agreements since the separation was not planned, and left with her not committing to separation transitioning to D or reconciliation. Just confused.

I have consistently said that we need to work out our communication and emotional detachment feelings and save the marriage for the kids' and our own benefit. I have told her that I will not give up on the marriage. I'm just not there yet.

But, I have stopped the pleading, persuading, convincing, and all that. I am in 'no contact' 'letting her go' mode. (i think) I don't respond to her texts anymore which are the only form of contact she will have with me.

Over the last two months of separation there has been a lot of anger and resentment on both of our parts. There were a lot of texts that were blaming, projecting, and transferring from both of us. It's just a downward spiral, so I've stopped. I've asked her to just talk and she says no. I've written a letter stating what I want and how the future can be. I've set up meetings with counselors for us and the kids. I've done the 180, lost tons of weight, working out, taking care of the kids at home on my weeks (i get it, she was right on that one!), re-arranged/cleaned up the house, moved all her nick-nacs - I've done all that stuff. I didn't really do all that just to win her back. A lot was out of necessity and a bunch just for myself. But nevertheless, she just won't talk. At all. Period. Unless it's with a counselor.

With counselors she just re-hashes all her past grievances - how I never helped with the chores or the kids; how I never said 'I love you' or gave her hugs; how I only sit around and read the paper or watch TV; how I never play baseball with the kids; how I never go anywhere or do anything with her or the family; how I have a substance abuse problem; how I'm angry and yell a lot. I have owned up to the stuff that is real and apologized for hurting her. I've said I can make amends and that the marriage is the most important thing to me. 'cause it is. I've said that I am sorry I am not fulfilling her emotional needs and I want to and can help around the house more.

But, the thing about that stuff to me is that it totally discounts all the things I DO do. Like constructing the front porch, building the fence, fixing the cars, keeping the bills paid, planning time away for the family and going, providing intellectual stimulation for the kids, being at 90% of baseball practice and helping the coaches run drills and never NEVER missed even one game. Plus, there's my side of the "I'm just not getting anything out of this relationship" story, too - how I want a more intimate (not necessarily sex) relationship; how I'm pushed away emotionally; how she stomps around acting angry; etc. I never get to talk about that because she just gets hurt and defensive.

She is having an EA with the kids' baseball coach (he's 21). Kids told me they were mad at him and didn't want to go to baseball because he stole Mom away from me. I've asked her to not bring him around the kids except for practices and all she did was step up his time with them; inviting him over to her place for dinner with them and stuff like that.

The first counselor said that he shouldn't be around the kids because it'll just confuse them, as well as advised her to stop showering with my oldest son and allowing both of them to sleep in bed with her. She couldn't understand how those things were harmful. That counselor then said she'd like to see us individually a couple of times and then get us back together for sessions after that. Wife never went back to that counselor. I've continued to go individually. A new counselor saw us each separately and then got us together for a session. He works with kids and wants to see ours after he figures out where we are trying to go (D or reconcile or just limbo for a while). He told me he can't quite figure out what she wants yet so he's not ready to see the kids. He told us some of the same stuff the first counselor did, e.g. no sleeping or showering with kids and no OG over with kids. So, i guess she'll stop seeing him next?!? Besides, that was the meeting where we were going to work out financials of D and she seemed to back away from the cliff.

This is her second EA in the past 5 years. The other one ended after I busted it wide open and we concentrated back on this relationship.

She's ADHD and I've dealt with lifelong bouts of depression and am back on meds recently. Our kids are boys ages 11 and 9. We've been married 14 years, together 5 before that. She's just turned 40, I'm 40 in February. So, we're not perfect, folks (but, who is) and, to me this is sorta garden variety domestic stuff, no one is getting physically abused or chronic drug/alcohol issues going untreated. Just a couple of emotionally detached people who are stuck in the mud. I want to get moving on a better future together and I think she is having a bit of mid-life/identity crisis denial, and I can't figure out what's gonna happen next.

This post is starting to feel like a ranting and rambling nut totally confused looking for clarity and trying to decide if I have a next move or should just continue to 'wait and see'. Now that I think about it: that's just how I feel. Seems like she's in the driver's seat with the parking brake on and can't decide to drive the bus, hand me the wheel, or just totally really disembark. I've definitely been the 'leader' in our relationship but don't know what to think - or do now. I wonder what's my 'next move'. I'm more than a little scared.

Any thoughts? Particularly from women on the 40-year-old-mid-life-kids-are-both-boys-and-not-needing-the-nurturing-type-of-parenting-so-looking-for-identity theory?

:confused:sheesh!:confused:
 

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You sound like a smart guy, know your faults, working on them, got tons going on in your life. Your wife is bored and acting out in a big way, scary as hell man...Feel for ya, know how much it hurts to have your world turned upside down...

I'm not a woman in my early 40's, but I do have an opinion.

Dude...the guy is 21. Twenty-one. Your wife is attached to a kid. You need to treat him like a kid.

Pull a Joe Pesci on him. Watch My Cousin Vinny and Goodfellas...leave out any violence of course, but put this douche in his place. You are a man, he is a child. Yes, he has influence over your wife and that's intimidating, but...Treat him as a kid and make it known that he has no business with your wife, the mother of your children. Better yet, do it in front of your wife.

How? Not sure. But I bet you know. You'll probably have plenty of opportunities at your son's ballgames. She may be gone...but it sure sounds like she's on the fence and testing you. Can you swat away a friggin 21 yr old? Yep. She will be pissed...whatever. Just be as strong as you can be and don't listen to anything she says, just watch what she does.

You might even tell him that you will request he be replaced as the coach as long as he is seeing your W. I presume he's not married?

I wish you the best of luck. Many others will have good input for you, this is just my initial thought here.

***Edit: She is not having an EA, she is having a PA. She needs to be snapped out of this hard. Blowing it up with Johnny College is essential...hell, talk with his parents. He needs to realize what he's messing with here. Consult an attorney, find out your options.
 

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Alxo contact the baseball league. I doubt they will be ok with him screwing around with a married mom from the team.

Get yourself to a lawyer and get papers drawn up. She can't cake eat like she is. Give her the papers and start filling.
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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
I've talked to him, and his Dad. Funny, his dad is the head coach and he is the assistant. His dad agrees with me, that it is f'd up. He wondered why I hadn't showed up at his house to kick his sons balls. I told him that was his job, and I ain't goin' down like that. He told me to call him tomorrow and he'll tell his son to stay away from the practice. But, I ain't goin' to let them have control. My week with the kids so I'll choose where they go. We're going somewhere else. The season's over anyway, it's just for fun and to keep the kids together. Mine can go when/if she takes them or next spring. We just need a break.

As for college (flunkie) dude, I did confront him on the field one day. It was about three weeks ago and real low key. No one heard our conversation, wife was gone, but not kids so the saw me be nice. Anyway, I told him only one of us would ever emerge from a dark alley and I told him that he's not a piece of **** because of what he is doing to my wife, he's a piece of **** because of what he's doing to my kids. He tried to tell me that they seem fine and I cut him off to ask him if he really though he was any kind of expert on MY kids. Hell, you were in diapers when they were born, I said. So shut the hell up and just steer clear of them. I told him I don't expect him to understand because he is a kid. I told him maybe when he grows up he'll understand that my kids are living a nightmare and he's part of it. I told him he's not fit to teach any kid anything. But, that was enough. I through giving him power, too. not worth my energy.

As for the D papers, I've been reading the No More Mr Nice Guy, and am really starting to think I'll just fill out the filing and hand it to her at the next meeting with the counselor (oct 25th). I figure I'll tell her that I'll give her one last gift, the gift of her freedom. I won't fight with her, but I will fight for her. I won't compete for her affection tho, and sure as hell not with a child. I wanna tell her that she can have him, and he can have her.

This is all about her own low self-esteem and that's why she just projects onto me. She's totally incapable of seeing any role she's played is our dysfunctional relationship or any value I've ever provided. It's just all my fault. Hey, I'm not perfect, but geeze. We have a nice little life with a mortgage and car payments and jobs in a great little Colorado ski town. The frickin' American Dream and $hit.

And, I just fear being abandoned so I keep taking BS and grovel around. I have way too much self respect for this game any longer. I deserve way more respect that she's giving me. It's taken me a while to figure this out. But, I think I'm on the right track. At least I'll have some clarity, even if I don't like it. That Mr Nice Guy book is great! She knows what I want, but I'll give her what she wants because I do love her and want her to be happy. See what she does.

The thing is, I'm scared. I'm scared for the kids. I'm scared of being alone and her calling the bluff. And the thing about that is I'm not sure I'm bluffing. Half of me (maybe more) thinks I'll be happier without her. One thing is for sure, if she does want to try and work it out after I deliver the papers, it's not going to be easy, or a sure thing. We'll see.

Thanks for the comments and support!
 

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Discussion Starter #5
BTW, tonite I was fixing the remote control car with my son at the work bench and the kid said to me, "Mom said she's happy you're doing stuff with us now because you just sat on the couch for five years". SHE SAID THAT TO MY KID!!!!! errrrrr! I asked him if he believed that and he said no because he remembers building to RC car and fixing it all the time, and all the times I was at Bball practice. So, at least he gets it. whew!

And that's only the latest. I've had the boys treat to me such gems as "mommy said she had to move out because you're not well", and "mommy said she has to live over there because you lied to her and never gave her hugs, but I don't believe that last part because I've seen you hug her."

The attorney called those acts of parental alienation and bad news in a custody battle, but probably not drastic enough to actually win a case and since we are going toward 50/50 kid time, I should just play it cool. I don't want a big ugly battle anyway. The kids aren't in eminent danger, but it is f'n with their minds.

Why does she pull that $hit? It's hard to believe she does it on purpose knowing her the way I do. But, then again, this is not the person I've known all these years. It's literally like an alien has removed her brain.
 

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She is a selfish person who is doing everything to make her not face the truth: she is a mature woman with kids who has decided to be the pathetic cougar that with let any young kid hookup with her.

Your attorney is right, she is going to nuclear and nasty. Can you cut off her money except for stuff for the kids? And get those papers goin, maybe she will wakeup?

Btw, if you live in a nice CO ski town, I suspect there would be a line of women who would like to meet you.
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"She is having an EA with the kids' baseball coach (he's 21)."

This is the crux of your whole situation. It is probably a PA. They would never tell you if it was. Never admit it to you.

You can not do anything to save your marriage while that relationship continues.

Protect yourself and the kids financially and as best as you can spiritually. Perhaps filing for a D, even though she isn't for it is the thing to do......you don't need her permission.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
So, after she agreed that there would be no OG around when she had the kids, the kid called me on their first night over there and said that OG was texting Mom to give the score of the Bball bame since mom doesn't have cable. Call me crazy but that's the same as having him over. She just doesn't get it!

Well, I had a long talk with the counselor yesterday, he talked about his conversations with her following our last meeting (the one where she bashed me and my parents for two hours). The Counselor told me that he agrees and has told her to get some therapy. HE thinks she is a bit detached from reality. HE too is confused by her adamant statements that she's 'done', but then not seeing any D papers fly from her. He also told me that she said she cried all day long the next day and her co-workers were wondering if she was having a nervous breakdown. So, the human I once knew is in there after all. I little hope.

I know the kids are hurting badly. Counselor thought it interesting that the kid had to tell me that OG was texting. He thinks kid feels guilt and having loyalty problems. My other kid told me Mom is the biggest liar in the family. So, they already get it. (sad) I think at age 11 and 9 they are more intellectually mature that she it.

Maybe I'm naive, but my heart just tells me to be a "fight for your marriage" guy. I said I'd be married when it got bad and if she got sick. I'm just hanging on waiting to see if she will come out of the fog.

I found a couples retreat coming up that was highly recommended by a friend who went. It teaches communication skills and explains why it's more valuable to stick in there rather than get a divorce. I wanna ask her to go as something we need weather we stay together or not. Our communications skill need serious help. I told the counselor and he said he'd broach the subject with her, not as a 'save you marriage' (although that's what it is) but rather a 'learn new skills' thing. Maybe she'll go. Probably not. But if I don't ask I'll never get it.

*sigh*
 

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Discussion Starter #9
>>>Pull a Joe Pesci on him. Watch My Cousin Vinny and Goodfellas...leave out any violence of course, but put this douche in his place. <<<

Love this quote. Thanks, I'd love to squeeze of a round or 8 into his foot.

I did confront him, and his Dad; but in the end you just give them the power by doing that ****. I told him off and that's that. It didn't really make me feel any better. Besides, the one I'm really mad at is her, not him. Directing anger at him only protects her (the one I love) from my anger. She's the one who really deserves it. It's hard to be mad at the one;s you love.
 
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