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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm new to the site, been lurking for a while and this is my first post. I think I'm definitely in a FOG but at the same time, I know that I'm not happy in my marriage and want out. I haven't "technically" cheated but I know in my heart I already have.

My wife and I have been together 12 years and married 11. She got pregnant while we were dating, neither of us believed in abortion for convenience, and I felt the honorable thing to do was to marry her. I definitely would not have otherwise although I know she wanted to marry me. So I tried to love her and make it work, but after a few years I checked out. I'm a good father and provider but I'm not a good husband. I want to be and I know I can be, just not with her. I've stayed in the marriage for my daughter's sake. We recently had a conversation where she said "we're roommates" with a child. I could not disagree. She stated certain things I had to start doing otherwise we had to go to therapy. I changed those habits immediately and she backed off, but I actually wanted to go to therapy. Not sure now why I didn't say let's go anyway. I guess my fear is that it's going to come out that it's not that I don't love her anymore, but that I never loved her and now I'm just not trying to pretend anymore. I care for her deeply as a person and don't want to hurt her. But as I think about it, I know I wouldn't want to live a lie and spend the rest of my life with someone who doesn't love me. So as painful as it is in the short term, it's probably best to release her.

For years I've fantasized about being with other women. Sometimes sexually but mostly romantically. I never did anything even remotely close to cheating though until recently. I play in a band and met the OW at one of our gigs. She's a friend of a groupie. Now I don't wear a wedding ring when we gig because when you play guitar sometimes the ring can make a horrible crack on the neck on a slide or quick chord change. It has nothing to do with hiding the fact I'm married. Many times I go out of my way to put my ring back on when between sets. But I forgot to put my ring back on when I was introduced to her. She was gorgeous so I figured it was his date - turns out they were former coworkers. We only talked briefly and she played it very cool but something was telling me "Danger. Sparks flying." After our break we started another set and she and her friend left.

The next week she came back with her friend, and I just knew the second she walked in the door she was back to see me. Again she was just "hanging out" but I could tell. I remember consciously deciding NOT to put on my ring this time. I could have shut things down that night, but I guess I wanted to flirt and see where it went. We chatted a bit longer this time, but it was just friendly banter between the three of us. Our groupie, who is a bartender at a restaurant nearby has been urging me to go there for dinner sometime. The three of us agreed to meet there for dinner next week. I told my wife exactly what I was doing - I'm going to dinner with groupie and his FEMALE friend. No problem. Was not a date at all in my mind though I won't pretend the thought of just staring at her for a few hours over dinner was intoxicating.

I was thinking three of us go out and I'll just casually mention my marriage at some point and end it. I had a little fun walking on the wild side but I needed to stop. When I showed up I realized this was not threes company, it was the groupie bartending and waiting on us, and me and her basically on a date! I was dressed like a slob and she was dressed to the nines! The nutty thing is I don’t know how groupie doesn’t know I’m married. I'm certain I mentioned it before, but maybe he just wasn’t listening or didn’t care. He was clearly playing cupid for her. Needless to say I lied by omission and basically had a first date with her. By the end of the night I was smitten, I guess officially in a FOG. But I couldn’t cross the line and just hugged her at the end of the night. By the time I got home my euphoria changed to guilt and anger at with myself and the next day I deleted her number.

I had no contact with her for about two months but she showed up to another one of my gigs a couple weeks ago. Right afterwards, we slipped away to grab a bite. We talked for 3 hours. The more I talked to her the more engrossed I've become. Last night I went out with my band mates after practice. I knew she was in the area so I casually texted her. This is the first time I sought her out! She was there in almost no time. We slipped away from our friends to grab a bite and did the same exact thing again. We talked about life, philosophy, religion. I’m agnostic and turns out she’s Christian and though not a virgin is born again and saving herself for marriage. I’m so enamored with her right now that I said to myself “that’s OK”. It’s not about sex. I’m finding this companionship with her that I've NEVER had with my wife of 12 years. We haven’t kissed or even held hands yet but this is so clearly romantic what we are doing…
One thing I realized as I was typing this is that I’m talking so much more about the OW than my wife. That is where my mind is at right now. But I feel sick. I want to be with the OW, but a relationship cannot be built on a lie. I have to tell her I’m married but I’m almost certain she’ll never talk to me again. I also have to talk to my wife. Do we even seek therapy at this point or is it over? Separate now and set us both free? I weep at the thought of what breaking up will do to my daughter. She's the only reason why I've stayed for so long.
 

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First things first: Stop with the OW immediately. You are only doing harm to yourself by continuing on with the charade. Does she even know you're married yet?

Secondly, you and your wife agreed that your were roomies with a baby. I would think at that point you would either consider marriage counseling or separation. It's what adults do. They don't pretend it's "not that bad" and they certainly don't "stay for the kid(s)". You're a musician...listen and read the lyrics to "Stay Together for the Kids". I know because that song is my life as a child.

You are not in that much of a fog, in my opinion. You are in a place of unknowing. Ask why you stay with your wife. Ask why you enjoy being with the OW.

Ask what's best for you and your wife...not to mention your child.
 

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My ex did something like this to me... Except he "broke us up" and then slept with other woman and then regretted it and wanted to let her go for his family. Unfortunately, he was never truthful to either of us and I ended up finding out about it.

I think you are experiencing "GIGS" and unfortunately the grass isn't always greener on the other side... It is green where you water it.
If you truly do not love your wife, come clean and let her go. Be ready to take all of the consequences you are about to be handed with when you break up a family. You do not have to be with your wife because of your child so think about what you want.

If I were in your place, I would go to marriage counseling with my wife and give it a shot.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
This OW will likely drop you like a hot potato when she finds out you're hitched. Either way, don't betray your wife. Leave her first. Be a man.
Of course she will. She's free to date anyone she wants. I'm trapped (I did it to myself 12 years ago) and desperate. Thus my actions (lying) are of a desperate man. There is probably no potential for us to have a relationship. Again it's my fault. If I had left my wife sooner, we could have entered this relationship in a healthy space.
 

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It's positive you recognize the fog. As stated by others you must inform the other woman right away. If she is truly of faith she will drop you immediately as she should. You already know that. The other reason it must end is you need a clear head in moving forward with your wife. If you truly don't want to remain married to her then you must do that with a clear head on its own merits. If she wants to remain married she has the right to fight for the marriage on a level playing field. You owe her that much.
 

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My first thought is that if you tell the OW she's going to leave you...which she should cause you're a LIAR and a cheater, even if you havent "technically" cheated in your mind. I hate to break it to you but you HAVE cheated...you havent given your body to her but you've given your mind to the OW, you think about her and want to be with her. YES THATS CHEATING!

I feel sorry for your wife. I have said to my WH a couple of times that I feel like we are roommates but I said it in a way to try to make him realize how distant I felt from him at times. I would probably curl into a fetal position if he came to me and said that our entire marriage was a lie and he never really loved me.

You need to get things right with your wife AND CHILD first!!
 

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Of course she will. She's free to date anyone she wants. I'm trapped (I did it to myself 12 years ago) and desperate. Thus my actions (lying) are of a desperate man. There is probably no potential for us to have a relationship. Again it's my fault. If I had left my wife sooner, we could have entered this relationship in a healthy space.
Dont get hung up on the "what ifs"...because ultimately if you wouldnt have gone on a date with your wife and had sex with her the most important thing in your life wouldnt be here right now.

People choose a path, sometimes its not always the right path and they dont realize that til they reach a dead end.
 

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At what point in your relationship with your wife did you FIRST tell her that you loved her? I’m willing to bet that even though you say that you “never” loved her, you TOLD her that you did. You probably told her that you did BEFORE she got pregnant.

I apologize if I sound a bit harsh, but I recently went through something similar with someone I lived with for over 4 years. Not only did it ‘cost’ me emotionally, but financially as well. Had I known the TRUTH back then, I would have had the money to leave the r/s 3 years earlier.

Tell your wife. Heck, I'd even divorce your wife. She deserves to be with someone who loves her. Pay for child support. Seek out your ‘true love’, and when you find her I hope the two of you get married…
…and 12 years later, she tells YOU that she “never loved you”...

Did you know that you "never loved your wife" BEFORE or AFTER you met this other woman? (the answer to this question is important)

Vega
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
First things first: Stop with the OW immediately. You are only doing harm to yourself by continuing on with the charade. Does she even know you're married yet?
Absolutely not. I know she will never talk to me again so I've continued the charade. It's reaching the tipping point for me though. Every time I see her, it's 3-4 hours of feeling like a silly teenager, then a sleepless night from guilt and feeling ill for a day or more...

Secondly, you and your wife agreed that your were roomies with a baby. I would think at that point you would either consider marriage counseling or separation. It's what adults do. They don't pretend it's "not that bad" and they certainly don't "stay for the kid(s)". You're a musician...listen and read the lyrics to "Stay Together for the Kids". I know because that song is my life as a child.
I know it. Great song. Here's the thing both these women are Asian, and I'm part Asian. We've all been raised in Asian families. My wife moved here when she was 25. Although the OW and I are both thoroughly Americanized, our parents are not. Asian culture is different. In some ways it's great, and in other ways it's sick and disgusting. Passionless marriages in Asian culture are the norm. Yet, they produce generation after generation of good students, upstanding citizens, with really strong family values. That's the great part. The disgusting part is my wife's family and the OW's family had parents with horribly dysfunctional marriages. The OW told me her dad cheated all the time and later died of hepatitis. My wife's dad was a verbally abusive drunk and a loser. Yet both mom's stayed by their sides. You might need to be Asian to understand. Asian's generally laugh at white people because a lot of them hate their siblings, can't wait to leave the house, hate holiday gatherings, you're a loser if you live with your parents, and then send them to a home when they are old. Those are unthinkable in traditional Asian families, and quite rare even with 2nd and 3rd generation Asian Americans. As a whole the family unit is much stronger than Western families, despite the horrible marriages. So in my family AND my wife's family there is tremendous pressure to stay together no matter what. Our parents would say "What is happening to you is normal. Think about your kids. Never break up the family." It's actually more socially acceptable to discreetly cheat than to divorce. I'm very Americanized so I would leave. My wife would not. Her family would not. My family would not. Frankly my parent's would never forgive me. You violate the Asian trust and you are out of the family circle. That would have dire consequences on my relationship with my daughter.
 

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Dude...I totally hear you. My uncle married a Korean woman. My cousin is half Korean and American. She married a guy who is Japanese. I totally understand the dynamics, and I can only relate what I've heard from my cousin and her husband. Some times you have to do what is best for you regardless of your family and their traditional values. Do you live in an Asian country? Was this an arranged marraige where the balance of power from one family to the next would be tipped unfairly?

No.

While I understand your fear of the impact a divorce would have on the relationship with your daughter, I can only remind you of one thing: You live in f'ng America. Neither your parents nor her parents OR your wife for that matter can tell you what happens with your rights as a father.

Yes, Asians are great rug sweepers. I know what really happened between my late unlce and my aunt. I've heard the stories from my cousin. It's pretty damn sad.

Take 10 minutes and go look in the f'ng mirror. Drop your ego and everything along with it and drop the idea of what your parents want and what her parents want and hell...even what your wife wants.

What do YOU want?

You've started down a slippery slope with this OW. Your complete honesty to yourself is what is due. There's no grace period here. You need to decide.
 

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I feel sorry for your wife. I have said to my WH a couple of times that I feel like we are roommates but I said it in a way to try to make him realize how distant I felt from him at times. I would probably curl into a fetal position if he came to me and said that our entire marriage was a lie and he never really loved me.
I read things like this and it makes me cry. I am living a very bad situation right now. Married almost 22 years. Living overseas. I left home to get long term medical care somewhere else. Communicationon his end dwiddled and finances prevented me from coming home, even for a visit between doc appointments. He came for a visit and gave me the "don't love you, haven't loved you for a long time" speech and said he wanted a divorce. Why? I now know it was another woman he moved into our home, but he has not admitted it yet. That night he told me "maybe we just stayed together for our son, but he is grown now". OMG! Does anyone have any idea what that feels like to be told such a thing after 22 years?

Worst part is his irresponsibility 2 years into our marriage caused us to be financially unable to maintain the home and I moved in with my parents. I gave him the freedom he apparently wanted, but he came crawling back and said he could not live without me. I took him back after expecting changes that he followed through. So, 20 years later, he tells me we stayed together for our son? Is he freakin serious? So, basically his reason for begging me to come back to him was because he wanted to avoid child support for 16 years? I was just a free live in nanny and housekeeper? WTF? When I called crap on that reason, he paused and said "I am tired of the financial problems" (that BTW, he created with gambling and dating his mistress). Umm.....so which is it? When he told our now grown son about his plan to divorce, he said "I've wanted to leave your mom for a long time now, but you are now grown so I can". WTF? What was all the "I love you" at the end of every call and e-mail? What was the "I'd marry you again"? I guess the huge tattoo of my name on his arm was his way of reminding himself how much he wanted to leave me all these years?

Yeah, fetal position.
 
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Your W is not your charity case. She has pride and a right to honest love and an honest marriage. You are not giving her the great gift of yourself by lying to her about your feelings. And now you are allowing yourself to become romantically attached to someone else and lying to that woman as well.

Stop thinking for your W and start respecting her right to honesty from you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Take 10 minutes and go look in the f'ng mirror. Drop your ego and everything along with it and drop the idea of what your parents want and what her parents want and hell...even what your wife wants.

What do YOU want?

You've started down a slippery slope with this OW. Your complete honesty to yourself is what is due. There's no grace period here. You need to decide.
I want to have great relationship with my daughter.
I want my wife to have a great relationship with her too.
I want to remain friends with my wife.
I want to be with someone like (not necessarily) the OW.
I want to stop heading down the path of lying and deceit. It's not me.
 

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I want to have great relationship with my daughter.
I want my wife to have a great relationship with her too.
I want to remain friends with my wife.
I want to be with someone like (not necessarily) the OW.
I want to stop heading down the path of lying and deceit. It's not me.
Well, hoss...there you have it.

Let's face it, you've already blown it with the OW for all intents and purposes. You don't want to enter into a relationship based on any false pretense ever.

So, where do you go from here? You have a grown up sit down talk with your wife. You tell her EXACTLY how you feel and EXACTLY what you've done by meeting up with another chick. Yeah, I know nothing "happened" but it did. You know it, I know it and all of TAM knows it. You wanna stop heading down that ugly path? Turn the f'ng corner hoss!

Break the Asian chain. Be the man you want your daughter to look up to, not the one she's gonna resent much like your wife does her father.

Break the f'ng chain, man!
 

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R U KIDDING??? You've been lying to and deceiving your wife for 12 YEARS!! It think your actions pretty much solidify that it IS you!

:mad:

Vega
CFNO,

Take comments like these with a grain of salt. Most of the people here are victims of infidelity and filled with scorn and hate because of their own personal experience. There is some great advice here but you have to wade through some of the emotion. You're about to do the right thing and at the right time. We've all made mistakes in the past. All that matters is that you do what's right in the end.

The OW has entered your life for a reason. It's a call to action. Not to have an affair but to WAKE UP and start living the rest of your life! By doing nothing you are slowly destroying your life, your wife's life, and though you may not see it now, your daughter's life. The OW is so obviously a messenger! You've talked with her about religion, sex is off the table, her cheating Asian dad. I guarantee you if you do wind up in a LTR with her, the damage from her relationship with her dad will come out. She's your daughter if you mess this up!

You should end the relationship with the OW immediately. She is there to deliver a message not become your mistress. Go to counselling, then end your marriage if that doesn't work out. If you and the OW were meant to be together, seek her out then, once you are SINGLE if she's still available!
 

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"Born again" and "saving herself". Sounds like she might be a little deluded. If a cheater becomes a born again - does that mean they never had sex with their AP?
WTF! Why so judgmental. We know nothing about her except my guess is it has something to do with her cheating father.
 
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