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While I don't agree with much of the black-and-white approach that has been suggested, I must say that I have never understood the concept of an in-house separation. Communication is a pillar and requirement for a healthy relationship of any kind but particularly marriage. The idea of being separated, non-communicative, but under the same roof is simply illogical and non-productive. Rebuilding a relationship can only be done with communication, not isolation. Sometimes people in a healthy relationship need a few hours, a day or two at most, to clear their mind and get their thoughts together when a major issue comes up. But weeks, months? No. If your marriage were really in the forefront of her mind right now she would be communicating with you about it, not isolating herself from you.

You can’t fix your marriage without your wife’s participation. Assuming you are correct and her affair continues, you simply don’t have her attention and can’t work on your marriage while she’s distracted by another man. By living with in-house separation you are essentially endorsing her behavior. The other guy is not going to stop the affair as long as your wife wants to continue it. The fact that you know about the affair and she still wants to continue it under those circumstances only makes it easier for him.

I’m not a proponent of contacting the other man’s wife/girlfriend because it does nothing to change your situation. It provides some satisfaction in knowing you caused some disruption in the other persons life, but it does nothing to fix YOUR marriage. If not this current guy, it would be another one. And even if exposure stops this current man from continuing the affair it doesn’t stop your wife developing one with someone else. For you, the problem is your wife wanting relations with another man, not another man wanting relations with your wife.

The problem I have with the “180” is that it’s a mind game. It’s great advice for someone that discovers their partner in an affair and wants to end the marriage, like SCUBASTEVE, but not for someone like you that wants to try to recover from the affair. That can only happen by open, honest, and deep communication. The “180” relies on “shocking” your partner with the idea you are bigger than the affair, can move on from it quickly, and are ready to move on with your life either alone or to find your own new relationship. None of that seems to be where you are.
My advice is to forget the mind games. Tell your wife you want to talk. Give her the evidence you have that her affair continues and tell her to stop lying to you. Tell her you love her and want to make your marriage work. Tell her what YOU need to make that happen. Ask her what SHE needs to make that happen. If she cannot give you what you need to rebuild the marriage, it is time for you to recognize that the relationship is irreconcilable at this point and you should act accordingly.

I know 15 years is a long time to be with someone and you want to make the marriage work. Unfortunately you can’t force someone to love you, they have to want that on their own.
 

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you sound like a man in desperation and not in control, and i have a sense your wife knows that...if i were you i would open a dating app in front of her and sign up and watch what she does...if she starts to attack you about doing that while your supposedly trying to work on your marriage then tell her why should you when she is sleeping around. but if she says nothing then you pretty much know that she does not care.
 

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One additional fact that I want y'all to consider in giving your advice. Several years back, I had my own bout with infidelity. While it was never fully exposed, I did many of the things cheaters do (blame on relationship, etc.). This is the biggest regret of my life.

We never really worked through the issues at that time, and it was essentially brushed under the rug for years until this came up. I know that the past has "hardened" my wife and led to the issues we are now facing.

With the above said, how does this impact your advice? I know I was wrong, had it coming, etc., so no need to tell me that. But, given the complete context of this, what are your thoughts on how I should proceed? As you can imagine, this knowledge of the "past" is impacting the way that I am handling the current situation.
OK lets address your infidelity here first. How long did it last ? How did it end ? Was it discovered or did you come clean and if so, why? Who was the AP ?

It should have been dealt with properly and maybe the two of you should have split up then - but it sounds like this did not happen.

But ...

Two wrongs do not make a right - there is no justification for her cheating as I have said before - the right thing to do would have been to talk to you first and divorce if nothing came of it. So she is still very much in the wrong and yes you should expose to the POSOM's family and friends but really his wife or other half.

You should also when informing your son, come clean on your own situation but make sure that he walks away understanding that it is never right to cheat and cheating should never be rugswept/accepted.

It sounds like your wife is done with you and that maybe a good thing all round. However, do not allow her to walk all over you. Get the divorce underway asap and then do the 180. Once everything is exposed I would be interested to know if she still wants an in-house separation.
 

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While I don't agree with much of the black-and-white approach that has been suggested, I must say that I have never understood the concept of an in-house separation. Communication is a pillar and requirement for a healthy relationship of any kind but particularly marriage. The idea of being separated, non-communicative, but under the same roof is simply illogical and non-productive. Rebuilding a relationship can only be done with communication, not isolation. Sometimes people in a healthy relationship need a few hours, a day or two at most, to clear their mind and get their thoughts together when a major issue comes up. But weeks, months? No. If your marriage were really in the forefront of her mind right now she would be communicating with you about it, not isolating herself from you.

You can’t fix your marriage without your wife’s participation. Assuming you are correct and her affair continues, you simply don’t have her attention and can’t work on your marriage while she’s distracted by another man. By living with in-house separation you are essentially endorsing her behavior. The other guy is not going to stop the affair as long as your wife wants to continue it. The fact that you know about the affair and she still wants to continue it under those circumstances only makes it easier for him.

I’m not a proponent of contacting the other man’s wife/girlfriend because it does nothing to change your situation. It provides some satisfaction in knowing you caused some disruption in the other persons life, but it does nothing to fix YOUR marriage. If not this current guy, it would be another one. And even if exposure stops this current man from continuing the affair it doesn’t stop your wife developing one with someone else. For you, the problem is your wife wanting relations with another man, not another man wanting relations with your wife.

The problem I have with the “180” is that it’s a mind game. It’s great advice for someone that discovers their partner in an affair and wants to end the marriage, like SCUBASTEVE, but not for someone like you that wants to try to recover from the affair. That can only happen by open, honest, and deep communication. The “180” relies on “shocking” your partner with the idea you are bigger than the affair, can move on from it quickly, and are ready to move on with your life either alone or to find your own new relationship. None of that seems to be where you are.
My advice is to forget the mind games. Tell your wife you want to talk. Give her the evidence you have that her affair continues and tell her to stop lying to you. Tell her you love her and want to make your marriage work. Tell her what YOU need to make that happen. Ask her what SHE needs to make that happen. If she cannot give you what you need to rebuild the marriage, it is time for you to recognize that the relationship is irreconcilable at this point and you should act accordingly.

I know 15 years is a long time to be with someone and you want to make the marriage work. Unfortunately you can’t force someone to love you, they have to want that on their own.
Although the rest of this message board will prob come after me for this, I tend to agree with your perspective more than the other posters. Being that I value your advice, I would love to get further feedback. Here is an outline of the current situation:

1. At the time I found the incriminating emails, I confronted my wife. She basically said she wanted a break from the marriage in which she could "realize" herself and what she wants. The only alternative to a "separation" for her was a divorce.

2. Not wanting a divorce (as explained in my original post), I agreed to the separation but informed her that I would not be comfortable with her seeing other people. She listened, but ultimately said that while she would take that into consideration, she was not willing to have me tell her what she could and couldn't do during this time of separation (hostility from feeling "controlled" throughout the marriage - not violent control, but emotional). Again, the alternative was divorce. I agreed, not from a position of weakness, but from the standpoint that my ultimate goal is to give the marriage the best chance possible of survival.

3. I have since became aware that the affair has continued (through billing records in her name that I gained access to....not shared accounts). While I have told her that I feel like an affair is continuing, to show her evidence would also come across as a direct breach of her personal privacy.

4. My personal counselor has told me that, in his mind, the best thing I can do if I truly want to save the marriage is to wait it out and work on myself (prepare for the worse). He says that he would not make her aware of the knowledge I have because of how it was obtained....thinks it will hurt more than it would help. My councilor feels that given the current scenario and our past, I am best to work on my personal relationship/communication with my wife, with the idea that the affair won't last (as most don't), and my wife may recognize that she is not willing to give up the 15+ years and the "breaking up" of our family. Or, through our relationship building, realize she truly wants to continue the marriage. He also acknowledges that this may not be the result, but she may wish to continue the other relationship. Again, he is not advocating this position in normal circumstances, but given our past, this is what he feels is the best option if ultimate goal is a chance at reconciliation. Worst case, it doesn't work out and I am better prepared to move on with my life.

5. Current stance of wife is that she would like to continue being separated as she is not yet ready to work on the marriage. Alternative to the current separation is divorce.

While I can see where people stating this is a "weak" stance are coming from, I am not concerned with looking weak. My goal is to save the marriage, or at least give it the best chance to survive. I just want to give my marriage the best chance at survival before I call it quits. Ultimately, if she doesn't come around to wanting to "work" on the marriage, I can ask for divorce whenever I want. I am comfortable with waiting assuming I can accept that it gives me the best chance at reconciliation. At this point, I am paying a professional (the counselor), and in his view (knowing the totality of the situation, our past, her current feelings and reasoning for these feelings, etc) this the best option.

What are your thoughts?
 

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Good luck, you'll need it.
THIS!!!

Expose, file and get out with the best settlement you can, timing is everything and affair clouds judgement, she might let you get away with much more so she can be with the AP without guilt or she may be blindsided allowing you time to get ahead.

Do not waste anymore time, i did this and still regret it at times
 

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Although the rest of this message board will prob come after me for this, I tend to agree with your perspective more than the other posters. Being that I value your advice, I would love to get further feedback. Here is an outline of the current situation:

1. At the time I found the incriminating emails, I confronted my wife. She basically said she wanted a break from the marriage in which she could "realize" herself and what she wants. The only alternative to a "separation" for her was a divorce.

2. Not wanting a divorce (as explained in my original post), I agreed to the separation but informed her that I would not be comfortable with her seeing other people. She listened, but ultimately said that while she would take that into consideration, she was not willing to have me tell her what she could and couldn't do during this time of separation (hostility from feeling "controlled" throughout the marriage - not violent control, but emotional). Again, the alternative was divorce. I agreed, not from a position of weakness, but from the standpoint that my ultimate goal is to give the marriage the best chance possible of survival.

3. I have since became aware that the affair has continued (through billing records in her name that I gained access to....not shared accounts). While I have told her that I feel like an affair is continuing, to show her evidence would also come across as a direct breach of her personal privacy.

4. My personal counselor has told me that, in his mind, the best thing I can do if I truly want to save the marriage is to wait it out and work on myself (prepare for the worse). He says that he would not make her aware of the knowledge I have because of how it was obtained....thinks it will hurt more than it would help. My councilor feels that given the current scenario and our past, I am best to work on my personal relationship/communication with my wife, with the idea that the affair won't last (as most don't), and my wife may recognize that she is not willing to give up the 15+ years and the "breaking up" of our family. Or, through our relationship building, realize she truly wants to continue the marriage. He also acknowledges that this may not be the result, but she may wish to continue the other relationship. Again, he is not advocating this position in normal circumstances, but given our past, this is what he feels is the best option if ultimate goal is a chance at reconciliation. Worst case, it doesn't work out and I am better prepared to move on with my life.

5. Current stance of wife is that she would like to continue being separated as she is not yet ready to work on the marriage. Alternative to the current separation is divorce.

While I can see where people stating this is a "weak" stance are coming from, I am not concerned with looking weak. My goal is to save the marriage, or at least give it the best chance to survive. I just want to give my marriage the best chance at survival before I call it quits. Ultimately, if she doesn't come around to wanting to "work" on the marriage, I can ask for divorce whenever I want. I am comfortable with waiting assuming I can accept that it gives me the best chance at reconciliation. At this point, I am paying a professional (the counselor), and in his view (knowing the totality of the situation, our past, her current feelings and reasoning for these feelings, etc) this the best option.

What are your thoughts?
Our thought are that almost everyone always disagrees with Toe about everything he writes.

You should not only be concerned with looking weak, you should be concerned about being weak, which is what you are doing.

If you have not figured that out yet, understand this... Women, all woman, despise weak men. They may not say it out loud, but they despise them.

The advice we are giving you is to 1) have a chance to save your marriage, and 2) GET YOU out of infidelity...

The excuses that you make for not acting and not exposing and not filing for divorce are make it a certainty that your marriage will not survive...

It may not anyway, but this is the only chance you have...

And all the other drivel from your counselor who is a moron, and part of the school of thought that I warned you about.

She wanted to realize herself so she could screw her AP without your interference.

Honestly, how in gods name can you think this is the right thing to do.
 

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Although the rest of this message board will prob come after me for this, I tend to agree with your perspective more than the other posters. Being that I value your advice, I would love to get further feedback. Here is an outline of the current situation:

1. At the time I found the incriminating emails, I confronted my wife. She basically said she wanted a break from the marriage in which she could "realize" herself and what she wants. The only alternative to a "separation" for her was a divorce.

2. Not wanting a divorce (as explained in my original post), I agreed to the separation but informed her that I would not be comfortable with her seeing other people. She listened, but ultimately said that while she would take that into consideration, she was not willing to have me tell her what she could and couldn't do during this time of separation (hostility from feeling "controlled" throughout the marriage - not violent control, but emotional). Again, the alternative was divorce. I agreed, not from a position of weakness, but from the standpoint that my ultimate goal is to give the marriage the best chance possible of survival.

3. I have since became aware that the affair has continued (through billing records in her name that I gained access to....not shared accounts). While I have told her that I feel like an affair is continuing, to show her evidence would also come across as a direct breach of her personal privacy.

4. My personal counselor has told me that, in his mind, the best thing I can do if I truly want to save the marriage is to wait it out and work on myself (prepare for the worse). He says that he would not make her aware of the knowledge I have because of how it was obtained....thinks it will hurt more than it would help. My councilor feels that given the current scenario and our past, I am best to work on my personal relationship/communication with my wife, with the idea that the affair won't last (as most don't), and my wife may recognize that she is not willing to give up the 15+ years and the "breaking up" of our family. Or, through our relationship building, realize she truly wants to continue the marriage. He also acknowledges that this may not be the result, but she may wish to continue the other relationship. Again, he is not advocating this position in normal circumstances, but given our past, this is what he feels is the best option if ultimate goal is a chance at reconciliation. Worst case, it doesn't work out and I am better prepared to move on with my life.

5. Current stance of wife is that she would like to continue being separated as she is not yet ready to work on the marriage. Alternative to the current separation is divorce.

While I can see where people stating this is a "weak" stance are coming from, I am not concerned with looking weak. My goal is to save the marriage, or at least give it the best chance to survive. I just want to give my marriage the best chance at survival before I call it quits. Ultimately, if she doesn't come around to wanting to "work" on the marriage, I can ask for divorce whenever I want. I am comfortable with waiting assuming I can accept that it gives me the best chance at reconciliation. At this point, I am paying a professional (the counselor), and in his view (knowing the totality of the situation, our past, her current feelings and reasoning for these feelings, etc) this the best option.

What are your thoughts?
Looking weak also makes you much less likely to save the marriage, it is completely counter intuitive. Work on getting your self respect back.

Figure out legalities and financials, so whatever you can to make sure you are in a good position financially and legally and then move forward with Divorce, your marriage ended the moment another mans **** went in her, it is already over so complete the paperwork and make it official if you get divorced and protect yourself and you so choose you can start a new relationship with her not that i would recommend it though since there are any many better people out there who do not treat people like this.

One final note, your counselor sounds like an idiot and clearly has no experience with this, read through all the posts and see what happens to the guys who wait on the sideline for there wife to come back while she is screwing someone else, it never never never ends well.

The men who decide they wont be treated like ****, who have a plan and move forward with it all end up well, often the WW wants to come back but they are too busy with there new life to care and realize she was not that great anyway
 

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You're looking at the 180 as a way to 'win' her back. That never works. You do the 180 as way to detach from her so you can move on with your life often times without her. Do what you want to do, you don't answer to her anymore.

Honestly, all you should be talking with her about is the kids and finances. Everything else is relationship stuff and guess what, brutal as it may seem, you don't have a marriage anymore.

Problem is you aren't willing to let it go even though you already know its gone. The only way you get out of this with your balls in place is if you make the decision that you are worth more than being her cuckhold. Be proactive. Get a divorce lawyer if you don't have one already. Ask her to pack her stuff and leave because guess what the 180 is hard especially when you are still in damage control mode, its far easier when that person is gone.

Sorry, there is no answer her you will like, because the answer you don't want to accept is the only option. Take it and you will never regret it.
 

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I am going to sum some of this advice that you have received up for you, so maybe it will become more clear.

So far one of the best posts is from @anne. She summed it up pretty well and she I right.

What you have to understand is that the experts that you refer to in your first post are wrong. I don't know what site or book you got your expert advice from but maybe you missed something or misunderstood something or it is just wrong.

Now, several years ago there was a book and a school of thought that advocated just letting your wayward spouse have their affair and see if they come back and you can have your marriage again.

That school of thought has been debunked and it was stupid to start off with.

Next I don't know what income level you are in and it really does not matter. I also don't know who makes or has most of the money in your marriage but none of that matters.

Your self respect should have NO DOLLAR figure attached, ever.

Your son, odds are that he knows something is up whether he knows HIS MOM is being a POS or not.

What you think you are doing is protecting him, but you are not. What you are actually teaching him is that dad was a willing cuck, and a weak man, so that must be the way that I should be. Because, he will at some point find out that you allowed your wife, his mom, to have an affair and you did not divorce her.

So let all of that sink in for a second.

Now understand that you are doing everything wrong.

This is how it works. When you find out your spouse is having an affair, you file for divorce first. Then you confront them and hand them a copy of the divorce papers.

Filing first allows you to show your WW that you will not live in infidelity, you will not accept this behavior in a marriage.

Now your evidence, why is it that you don't want her to know where it came from? If it is shady or questionable then you don't have to tell her where you got the evidence. But there has got to be a really good not to show her the evidence.

However, when you hand her divorce papers, you don't have to tell her where the evidence came from or show it to her. Another option is to hire a PI and get evidence that is clean and valid in court.

So the most important thing that you need to do is expose the affair to everyone, EVERYONE.

First and for most, if her AP is married, you need to let the other betrayed spouse know. Give them what evidence you can. But expose.

Then you expose to everyone and ask her to leave the house. And you tell your son what is going on.

You are probably think all of this will push your wife away. The thing you have to understand is that she is already gone and you are enabling her affair and fantasy land.

By taking the above steps you may lose you wife, but you will not look like a weak sissy either. The other possibility is that she will wake up because you are being a strong man for a change instead of a weakling.

And talking to the guy that is screwing your wife, is about the weakest move you could have possibly made.

So keep posting and we will help you through this.

If you want to have a chance at saving your marriage, even a chance, you need to wake up and listen to what we are saying....
So much good advise on all these posts, you just need to put it in action. You have all the information you need.

A lot of people posting have had or seem similar circumstances and know how it ends.

I just hate to see people make these mistakes if it is avoidable
 

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Actually the 180 does often work to win a wayward wife back.

For an example. Go out and buy new clothes. New haircut. Go to the gym often. Go out dressed to kill with a tiny bit of cologne. Never tell her where you're going. She needs to think you’re over her and doing great. The most important parts of the 180 are the details. Like showing no concern for her, doing nothing for her and especially being cheerful no matter how hard. Never bring up the relationship. If she wants to talk about while the affair is going on just listen but don’t participate. Listen for a short while and then announce you have someplace to be.

As shown over many years, what your trying to do has never worked. The upside is you will end up losing a cheating wife anyway.
 

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Given that you are willing to "wait it out" I think your counselors advice makes sense. Your strategy is hoping she will come to her senses before your patience wears out. With that in mind I don't think non-communication, the 180 approach, is the answer. I think that would embolden her to believe that you don't care either and she is justified in continuing the affair. In my mind, you need to communicate as much as you can in the normal daily sense and reiterate that you love her when appropriate. Kill her with kindness, as the saying goes. At least, if the marriage does end you know that you have done everything you could to make it known you wanted it to succeed.

I wish you the best of luck and hope she does see how much you care for her.
 

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Although the rest of this message board will prob come after me for this, I tend to agree with your perspective more than the other posters. Being that I value your advice, I would love to get further feedback. Here is an outline of the current situation:

1. At the time I found the incriminating emails, I confronted my wife. She basically said she wanted a break from the marriage in which she could "realize" herself and what she wants. The only alternative to a "separation" for her was a divorce.

2. Not wanting a divorce (as explained in my original post), I agreed to the separation but informed her that I would not be comfortable with her seeing other people. She listened, but ultimately said that while she would take that into consideration, she was not willing to have me tell her what she could and couldn't do during this time of separation (hostility from feeling "controlled" throughout the marriage - not violent control, but emotional). Again, the alternative was divorce. I agreed, not from a position of weakness, but from the standpoint that my ultimate goal is to give the marriage the best chance possible of survival.

3. I have since became aware that the affair has continued (through billing records in her name that I gained access to....not shared accounts). While I have told her that I feel like an affair is continuing, to show her evidence would also come across as a direct breach of her personal privacy.

4. My personal counselor has told me that, in his mind, the best thing I can do if I truly want to save the marriage is to wait it out and work on myself (prepare for the worse). He says that he would not make her aware of the knowledge I have because of how it was obtained....thinks it will hurt more than it would help. My councilor feels that given the current scenario and our past, I am best to work on my personal relationship/communication with my wife, with the idea that the affair won't last (as most don't), and my wife may recognize that she is not willing to give up the 15+ years and the "breaking up" of our family. Or, through our relationship building, realize she truly wants to continue the marriage. He also acknowledges that this may not be the result, but she may wish to continue the other relationship. Again, he is not advocating this position in normal circumstances, but given our past, this is what he feels is the best option if ultimate goal is a chance at reconciliation. Worst case, it doesn't work out and I am better prepared to move on with my life.

5. Current stance of wife is that she would like to continue being separated as she is not yet ready to work on the marriage. Alternative to the current separation is divorce.

While I can see where people stating this is a "weak" stance are coming from, I am not concerned with looking weak. My goal is to save the marriage, or at least give it the best chance to survive. I just want to give my marriage the best chance at survival before I call it quits. Ultimately, if she doesn't come around to wanting to "work" on the marriage, I can ask for divorce whenever I want. I am comfortable with waiting assuming I can accept that it gives me the best chance at reconciliation. At this point, I am paying a professional (the counselor), and in his view (knowing the totality of the situation, our past, her current feelings and reasoning for these feelings, etc) this the best option.

What are your thoughts?
I can GUARANTEE that you are not going to "win" her back this way! The bulk of the advice you are being given is based on years of experience and is completely contrary to this lone voice you are listening to. If you want to truly save the marriage, you have to be willing to lose it first. Also you need to see that she is playing you and has no reason to change anything. Even if she appears to come back to you it will be on her terms which is paramount to letting her **** around whenever she wants. If you are OK with that then by all means carry on with this approach and prepare yourself for a world of pain and misery.

And I completely agree that your counsellor is a moron!!!

Good luck!
 

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Actually the 180 does often work to win a wayward wife back.

For an example. Go out and buy new clothes. New haircut. Go to the gym often. Go out dressed to kill with a tiny bit of cologne. Never tell her where you're going. She needs to think you’re over her and doing great. The most important parts of the 180 are the details. Like showing no concern for her, doing nothing for her and especially being cheerful no matter how hard. Never bring up the relationship. If she wants to talk about while the affair is going on just listen but don’t participate. Listen for a short while and then announce you have someplace to be.

As shown over many years, what your trying to do has never worked. The upside is you will end up losing a cheating wife anyway.
Yea, in a way, being a doormat will ensure she will dump bbbb swiftly for the OM or whoever else rocks her world. She may rip out his guts and feed it to him along the way. But one thing will be certain, his lack of self-respect will make her run. In the long run he will be better off, even if it was all on her terms. I prefer a proactive approach but maybe the guilt of leaving him shattered and broken will mean the divorce agreement will be a little more favorable for him.
 

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Our thought are that almost everyone always disagrees with Toe about everything he writes.
Hahaha...well, that may be true, but in my own defense I was married only ONCE, for 32 years. My advice is always based upon that life experience.

The OP doesn't want out of the marriage right now. That's his choice and his choice alone to make. He's fully aware of what his wife has done, and is doing; he's not naive. He knows it may not work out the way he wants it to; he's realistic about the potential outcome. It doesn't help him to be called weak, a cuck, or any other characterization just because he desires a different course of action than conventional wisdom of this forum would want him to pursue.
 

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Hahaha...well, that may be true, but in my own defense I was married only ONCE, for 32 years. My advice is always based upon that life experience.

The OP doesn't want out of the marriage right now. That's his choice and his choice alone to make. He's fully aware of what his wife has done, and is doing; he's not naive. He knows it may not work out the way he wants it to; he's realistic about the potential outcome. It doesn't help him to be called weak, a cuck, or any other characterization just because he desires a different course of action than conventional wisdom of this forum would want him to pursue.
Sorry, but a man that allows this to go on in his marriage is weak. No other why to describe it. It means that he does not value himself, his name, or his child enough to have the strength to do what has to be done.

And no, she will not come back to this man. Maybe he will file at some point maybe he will not. That is also weak.

Maybe he will just get himself a side piece?

There is no reason to stay in this situation, never will be.

If he wants to win her back, he has to become strong. Now I don't know who has the money in the family but maybe she does.

What he is doing will assure the destruction of his marriage, and who would want a marriage like this in the first place.

Mostly I see another young male that does not have a father that has the ball to show him what life is like.

No, Toe, I, as usually, just have to disagree.

If that is what you chose to do in your marriage, that is your business. I was marriage a couple of times, once for 26 years so your 32 does not impress me.

I am afraid that you are doing this man a disservice but maybe that is what he wants.

Who can figure out people....
 

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One additional fact that I want y'all to consider in giving your advice. Several years back, I had my own bout with infidelity. While it was never fully exposed, I did many of the things cheaters do (blame on relationship, etc.). This is the biggest regret of my life.

We never really worked through the issues at that time, and it was essentially brushed under the rug for years until this came up. I know that the past has "hardened" my wife and led to the issues we are now facing.

With the above said, how does this impact your advice? I know I was wrong, had it coming, etc., so no need to tell me that. But, given the complete context of this, what are your thoughts on how I should proceed? As you can imagine, this knowledge of the "past" is impacting the way that I am handling the current situation.
IMO: this post is the key to this mess. He feels GUILT over his affair/affairs--which was never properly addressed after it/they happened. We have no details on his affair/affairs--length, depth, who, what where, why--could have been years with escorts or admin assistant. Sounds like wife didn't discover all details either. What did happen was she lost respect, love, dedication for bbbb8080. We don't even know if wife's AP is available for future commitment.

He wants to be his usual happy self and woo her back with his charm and forgiveness. He chooses to follow the advice for which he is paying. Many here know the unlikely success of this and want him to get the best deal while she is in limerence.

To me there is no happy ending. Both have had affairs. Trust is so tarnished it can't be found. We don't know ages, if this is first marriage, or what is left to save.
 

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Think it is the same AP.......would be shocked if someone else. I guess there is no way to know for sure though.
Having been there...it never really blows over...It's been my experience the infidelity doesn't die out but only the one particular AP does, and it's just a matter of time before a new AP shows up.

I played this game with my FWW for like seven years and dozens of AP's.

Consider your self warned.

Your counselor hasn't read my tag line and most likely bases his perspective on typical cases.


My wife was having way to much fun to notice the healthy changes I was making. And like you I stuck it out, but I fear your old lady's unhealthy choices will snow ball like mine did.
Granted I could be wrong about your old lady's future, maybe she finds an OM and sticks with him for a long time...


I think both of you guys stopped caring...…..and when that happens anything can happen and usually does!
 

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Hahaha...well, that may be true, but in my own defense I was married only ONCE, for 32 years. My advice is always based upon that life experience.

The OP doesn't want out of the marriage right now. That's his choice and his choice alone to make. He's fully aware of what his wife has done, and is doing; he's not naive. He knows it may not work out the way he wants it to; he's realistic about the potential outcome. It doesn't help him to be called weak, a cuck, or any other characterization just because he desires a different course of action than conventional wisdom of this forum would want him to pursue.
So what is your story from whence this advice comes? Did your wife **** another man or men and you waited patiently for her to come back to you because you wanted to preserve the marriage? Because if that is not the case then your advice is not based on anything relevant. If it is the case would you comment on what was the effect on you as a result of you having the grace to forgive her and wait for her to pick you?

Else OP cannot take your advice seriously. When you see somebody cut and bleeding you tend to advise them to disinfect the wound and also to stem the bleeding (stitches) and recover from the blood loss. You cannot advise them not to get stitches just because you never needed stitches (when you haven't been cut). So I'd love to hear your story to back up the advice you give.

OP you have been warned about this course of action based om a lot of collective experience. Good luck!
 

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bbbb8080:

Many people come here asking for advice, then do the opposite because they think they know better than the combined wisdom of the posters on this board who have gone through this themselves and have seen thousands upon thousands of stories exactly like yours over many years. You are certainly welcome to go your own way, but I promise you, you do so at the peril of your family.

1. You have to be willing to lose your marriage to save it. Go big or go home.

2. Hit her with papers without warning. Divorce takes time. Watch her actions. If she becomes truly remorseful, you can halt it. If not, get it over with. Tell her she can go be with him, but not as your wife.

3. The 180 is meant to help you not effect her.

4. Your counselor is asking you to be a doormat. What's your gut feeling on that?

5. She wishes to separate in order to try her new plan "A" out. Plan "B" is in the way right now.

6. Your teenage son deserves to know what is going on. With both of you.

7. STD test. She has been taking a stranger's body fluids in. This threatens the health of you and your son. That's why we don't have sex with hookers. They are germ bags.

8. No sex with her. This is viewed as forgiveness by the courts.

9. Be the man you want her and your son to see. Strong, courageous, and decisive. It's the only way to come out of these things with a chance to heal.

10.You really need a new therapist. You're paying money for that kind of advice?
 

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4. My personal counselor has told me that, in his mind, the best thing I can do if I truly want to save the marriage is to wait it out and work on myself (prepare for the worse). He says that he would not make her aware of the knowledge I have because of how it was obtained....thinks it will hurt more than it would help. My councilor feels that given the current scenario and our past, I am best to work on my personal relationship/communication with my wife, with the idea that the affair won't last (as most don't), and my wife may recognize that she is not willing to give up the 15+ years and the "breaking up" of our family. Or, through our relationship building, realize she truly wants to continue the marriage. He also acknowledges that this may not be the result, but she may wish to continue the other relationship. Again, he is not advocating this position in normal circumstances, but given our past, this is what he feels is the best option if ultimate goal is a chance at reconciliation. Worst case, it doesn't work out and I am better prepared to move on with my life.
Wait it out!? Sit back until your wife has had her fill of being filled by another man?!

Who gives a **** how you obtained evidence of your wife ****ing another man?! How will it get worse? She might **** him again or something!?

When spouses cheat, the other spouse "invade privacy". You don't have to feel good about it, but you are not wrong to do it and should not apologize for it...because she is ****ing another man!

Please find another counselor because this one is a moron and/or is on your wife's payroll.

In my experience, most counselors range somewhere between worthless to dangerous.

Be very selective and fire them quickly if they give you ****ty advice like the advice you are getting.
 
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