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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My wife and I have been together for 15 years, married for 8, 4 year old daughter. We have had our rough patches. In 07 she cheated on me with an out of state co-worker. I found out about it via my computer and tracking phone calls after suspicion. I confronted her and she admitted it, I confronted him and told him to stop, he didn't stop communications with her so I let his wife know what kind of a POS he was. The apology my wife gave me was "I'm sorry you got hurt, but not sorry it happened" I didn't care at the time about an apology I just wanted to know why and how to fix what I/we screwed up. We got back together and things were ok for a while. I have always had issues with keeping a steady job but always had money coming in from various side jobs, I'm sure that added stress. She visited a lawyer a few months ago and then told me about it. She didn't want to work on things, but to kick me out... We stayed together, without counseling because she felt we have already had it(back a couple years after got married to work out the marital kinks and such) Seen him for 5-8 times and things were going good, we stopped going... She had a counselor for some reason and wanted me to go see her, but it wasn't a marriage type of thing(about 2 years ago). She told her parents that she was going to ask me to leave 3 weeks ago. I knew nothing of this, but was out of town with some friends working on a hunting cabin. I had a break through with the slump I was in and had made my mind up before coming home to her that I was going to turn over a new leaf and I was tired of not having the things I promised her we would have and not having anything of my own. I get home after an awesome eye opening weekend only to have her say "What are your plans? We need to talk"

Since thing she has backed off of the seperation papers(later told me she was going to follow up with divorce papers, etc..) but not yet. I told her we needed to seek the help of a licensed, experienced marriage counselor to find out how we got here and where to go from here(either together or alone). I am doing anything and everything I can to make her see that I am not going to get dragged back down to that dark hole I was in. I am seeking help for myself as well. I spent the last 3 weeks since that weekend out pounding the pavement for a job and turning the rejections into fuel for the fire of desire!!!!!

We had a week where we were like a couple that just made up after a fight, laughing, playing with the kid, dinners, day trips to the stores, etc... but she stopped that because she says "We are living something fake". I tell her that I still have the bad on my mind and I'm not ignoring it, but we can't ignore the good that is happening or you'll never see where we are going. We still need counseling!

She tells me " I don't know if I can fall back in love with you or that our marriage is what I want" She said " I would be looking for a knight in shining armor to mask all the bad things I'm going to be thinking about returning" I tell her you can't focus on the bad or you'll never see the good! She doesn't let me show her affection, back rubs, hugs, kissing because she feels it's fake or doesn't feel attracted to me...........THIS HURTS!

How can she fall back in love with someone if she doesn't let a little bit of them inside her heart????

The other day we had a talk and made a little bit of headway. I blamed myself for the failure of a marriage we have, she said it's not all you. If I wouldn't have cheated on you we might not be in this position. I told her I wished she would have said that back in '07 when I needed to hear it!!!!!! She actually broke down and genuinely that she shouldn't have let that happen.

What should I do? I have contemplated leaving and letting things ride out where they may, but I am staying for my daughter and for the fact that I know what I can give her if she would just let me back in!


I am so broken, confused, hurt, at a loss for words. We have counseling on the 23rd, but I feel it's way too far away! I just pray she takes the counseling advice and doesn't go for the reason of moving past our marriage! If she does I will never be able to live with the fact that I am ready to give her and our marriage my all and give her what we said we would have!

-Confused
 

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First thing i would do is join her in the counselling. My husband suggested this years ago, but i refused because we had tried it before, and he became bored,

The other important aspect is finding permanent employment. Your wife may be feeling very stressed out with this situation. Women like to feel that their spouse has stability, especially where children are concerned.

Sit down and talk to her before the counselling starts, and let her know you will do your best to make the marriage work.

All the best to you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
First thing i would do is join her in the counselling. My husband suggested this years ago, but i refused because we had tried it before, and he became bored,

The other important aspect is finding permanent employment. Your wife may be feeling very stressed out with this situation. Women like to feel that their spouse has stability, especially where children are concerned.

Sit down and talk to her before the counselling starts, and let her know you will do your best to make the marriage work.

All the best to you.
Joni,

Thanks for the reply. I have assured her numerous times in the last couple weeks things will be different this time, but I have said them before. I don't know what it is about this time, but I have found a new light. I'm finally above the dark cloud that was keeping me down. The repetitive rejection from jobs. Worrying about myself instead of my family.

I have done nothing but worry about my wife and my marriage right now, but she tells me I have to focus on me, change for me. How can I focus on me and change for me when I was so selfish to think of only myself in the past?

She knows I want nothing more than to make this work. I guess it's put up or shut up time now. I just hope shes watching instead of hating my guts for screwing up for so long!
 

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I am also a BS and admittedly I will be biased, but when I readyour post all is see are red flags, red flags, red flags


1) you essentially rug swept the affair- it was not addressed properly and her not being sorry about it is no sign of remorse in the slightest. Often an indicator that the affair didn't end and went underground.
2) she doesn't want affection from you and is giving you a version of the ILYBINILY speech- more indications that she is in the affair still (she doesn't want to cheat on her affair partner)
3) she's wanting to D but not going through with it, possibly indicating that her affair partner isn't willing to leave his own wife
4) she may even be looking for a safe zone to tell you via her counselor/therapist

just food for thought and imo reason for you to investigate

PS- don't be surprised when other posters here tell you to get a DNA test on your child
 

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If she has had an A before and said "I'm sorry you got hurt, but not sorry it happened"...she never felt remorse. Not a good thing. My H never feels remorse, and he has always continued cheating. I was always a rug sweeper...and he would keep cheating.

If she felt what she did to you was wrong, she would be giving you the world, and happy to have any kind of love from you she could get. Going to divorce lawyers? Is that remorse? no. Treating you like crap when you are giving her a second chance...still doesn't sound like remorse to me.

The reason she isn't giving you all of her heart is because her mind isn't on you. It's on something or someone else. Are there any other things she's been doing that you have found weird or suspicious? Can you think of anything?

I would not take this lightly. Find out what she is up to again.
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I am also a BS and admittedly I will be biased, but when I readyour post all is see are red flags, red flags, red flags


1) you essentially rug swept the affair- it was not addressed properly and her not being sorry about it is no sign of remorse in the slightest. Often an indicator that the affair didn't end and went underground.
2) she doesn't want affection from you and is giving you a version of the ILYBINILY speech- more indications that she is in the affair still (she doesn't want to cheat on her affair partner)
3) she's wanting to D but not going through with it, possibly indicating that her affair partner isn't willing to leave his own wife
4) she may even be looking for a safe zone to tell you via her counselor/therapist

just food for thought and imo reason for you to investigate

PS- don't be surprised when other posters here tell you to get a DNA test on your child

1. When she cheated in 07 things were rough, I was working then, but things were rough. The affair stopped I know that for a fact!
2. I honestly believe there is no new person she is sleeping with. She doesn't get prettied up, go out. If she is sleeping around on me then it's while she is supposed to be working during her normal hours of operation, etc... I don't see it happening.
3. My feelings on why she wanted the D but is hesitant is that she doesn't know for sure(which she said to me) if this is what she wants. I have caused alot of pain and we are both screwed up in the head right now.
4. She has plenty of safe zone to tell me and has had plenty of opportunities to tell me she wanted out, believe me!

LOL - My daughter is mine, no way around it! Acts just like me, looks like me. She is my blood 100% certainty.

We have been through thick and thin and I truly believe she is hung up between wanting to work on things, but doesn't want to put herself out there in case the bad happens again. We have to get into counseling and figure out how we got here and why we didn't see it coming, how to move on from here and not let it happen again!!!!

I'm making my steps as an individual!! I just hope she pays attention to them and there is enough stability there for her to want to love me again.

Thanks for your input.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
The events that led to the affair contributed to it though. I didn't hold her hand an make her cheat on me, but I pushed her away. She tried many times to get me to see that things were bad but I was too busy being buried in my dark hole or focused on myself to see it. Now in my defense when she would try to talk to me it would always be out of anger or when I was busy doin something else. With that said our communication skills SUCKED. The last 3 weeks we have worked on those. It I'm getting shut out like I did to her.
She is genuinely afraid that I will lapse back into the same thing as before. If she constantly focuses on the bad shell never get over it and it will consume all the good that is left or coming. She is willing to go to counseling but in her words "we need to go see how we got here and where to go for
here" in my mind I'm reading that as "I'm done and don't know how we should proceed from here" I have been told by my family, friends and her family that I might be reading into it too much.

All I know is this waiting sucks and I can't help but think I will not get another chance to prove I am the man she needs and wants, and that I truly at the man she thought she married.
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The events that led to the affair contributed to it though. I didn't hold her hand an make her cheat on me, but I pushed her away. She tried many times to get me to see that things were bad but I was too busy being buried in my dark hole or focused on myself to see it. Now in my defense when she would try to talk to me it would always be out of anger or when I was busy doin something else. With that said our communication skills SUCKED. The last 3 weeks we have worked on those. It I'm getting shut out like I did to her.
She is genuinely afraid that I will lapse back into the same thing as before. If she constantly focuses on the bad shell never get over it and it will consume all the good that is left or coming. She is willing to go to counseling but in her words "we need to go see how we got here and where to go for
here" in my mind I'm reading that as "I'm done and don't know how we should proceed from here" I have been told by my family, friends and her family that I might be reading into it too much.

All I know is this waiting sucks and I can't help but think I will not get another chance to prove I am the man she needs and wants, and that I truly at the man she thought she married.
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Ok, so first thing... never blame yourself for her affair. That's just nonsense. We all have things we do wrong in a M, but that's no reason for our S to go and cheat. Those excuses are just to turn it around on you so that you are to blame and not her. Which is not what one should do in her situation if she wants to make this work.

She decided to do that, she has to own it.
Has she shown any signs of true remorse for straying outside the M? (it doesn't sound like it so far)

Another thing. You implied that she has shut you out like you did to her..
Why is she doing that?
She has already shown her spite by having an A? Does she not want to own that part of your M?

What kind of "dark hole" were you in back when she cheated?
 
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What you have to remember is that you cannot snap your fingers and make somebody fall back in love with you. It takes two to make a marriage but only one to end it unfortunately. If you're going to go the counseling route be sure to make the correct choice. Even screen some to make sure their techniques align with what you want out of the sessions. A lot of times marriage counseling makes matters worse because a large part of it is concentrating and highlighting the bad.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Ok, so first thing... never blame yourself for her affair. That's just nonsense. We all have things we do wrong in a M, but that's no reason for our S to go and cheat. Those excuses are just to turn it around on you so that you are to blame and not her. Which is not what one should do in her situation if she wants to make this work.

She decided to do that, she has to own it.
Has she shown any signs of true remorse for straying outside the M? (it doesn't sound like it so far)

Another thing. You implied that she has shut you out like you did to her..
Why is she doing that?
She has already shown her spite by having an A? Does she not want to own that part of your M?

What kind of "dark hole" were you in back when she cheated?
On my part? Lack of ambition, drive to be something, depression(I think) always getting rejected from permanent employment, lack of training not a desired candidate. So unstuck with temporary contract work and when the contract was up(staffing agencies) then I was out of a job and looking for more. A vicious cycle that made me look like I couldn't keep a job. Last week she did break down and own the fact she cheated and had a hand in where we are right now, and actually apologized for it and said she was sorry, and she doesn't know why she did it. It was t the fact I wasn't showing her or trying to show her affection or attention.(almost 3.5 years since a sexual encounter) again there was no cheating on either part, just a lack of desire on her part to "jump my bones" she isn't a sexual person and I'm the one to start a session, but if she wasnt in the mood we wouldn't do anything.
I am willing to start back at square one and get things right once and for all. She says she is so screwed up that if we split she might never get married again because she'd be looking for a knight in shining armor/perfection , and she knows that's not out there. I said I can give you Ll the things you want and need if you will talk through our issues and let me back in and give us a chance

I keep getting "I don't know what I want, I know I'm not wasting more of my life only to find out nothing will ever change or that she couldn't get what she wanted out of her marriage.

This is why I'm confusedinoh!!!!!

Part of me wants to leave, but the other part wants to show her im a fighter and I'm done screwing off!!
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
What you have to remember is that you cannot snap your fingers and make somebody fall back in love with you. It takes two to make a marriage but only one to end it unfortunately. If you're going to go the counseling route be sure to make the correct choice. Even screen some to make sure their techniques align with what you want out of the sessions. A lot of times marriage counseling makes matters worse because a large part of it is concentrating and highlighting the bad.
Believe me I have researched the marriage couselors in the area and have numbers for them all. We have an appointment set for 23rd so we'll see.
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On my part? Lack of ambition, drive to be something, depression(I think) always getting rejected from permanent employment, lack of training not a desired candidate. So unstuck with temporary contract work and when the contract was up(staffing agencies) then I was out of a job and looking for more. A vicious cycle that made me look like I couldn't keep a job. Last week she did break down and own the fact she cheated and had a hand in where we are right now, and actually apologized for it and said she was sorry, and she doesn't know why she did it. It was t the fact I wasn't showing her or trying to show her affection or attention.(almost 3.5 years since a sexual encounter) again there was no cheating on either part, just a lack of desire on her part to "jump my bones" she isn't a sexual person and I'm the one to start a session, but if she wasnt in the mood we wouldn't do anything.
I am willing to start back at square one and get things right once and for all. She says she is so screwed up that if we split she might never get married again because she'd be looking for a knight in shining armor/perfection , and she knows that's not out there. I said I can give you Ll the things you want and need if you will talk through our issues and let me back in and give us a chance

I keep getting "I don't know what I want, I know I'm not wasting more of my life only to find out nothing will ever change or that she couldn't get what she wanted out of her marriage.

This is why I'm confusedinoh!!!!!

Part of me wants to leave, but the other part wants to show her im a fighter and I'm done screwing off!!
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Ok, I'm just trying to understand all of this better...

So she has shown some remorse.

She has expressed her want to possibly leave?
It sounds like she has trust issues....Is she only upset just because you have not been able to hold a job? and you are possibly depressed?

and you said that you are done screwing off..what do you mean by "screwing off"? Have you left her before? It sounds like there's something deeper here...
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Screwing off as in... Letting drepression and the darkness rule my being. I don run around, never cheated. I have focused on myself though, only to ignore the fact that I was unable to handle my business and family relations because of the lack of a job and constantly getting dragged through the dirt while trying to get back up
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I can't help but feel like she is being a tad unfair

She cheats, and you stay with her to work it out..
You are depressed and having a hard time getting a job, and she decides to talk to a lawyer about divorce and keeps telling you she's not getting what she wants.

P.S. - It's not all about her. You are part of this M too. You need to start having a voice and express your wants and needs to your W.
You cannot force her to love you and if she wants to leave, let her.
She has to want to make this work if you both are going to stay in this M. (and happy)

However, I suggest that you search hard to find yourself a stable job, keep it and prove to yourself that you are fully capable of holding a job. Start working on yourself...you cannot change her, or her mind. Only your own.

Never allow her to disown her behaviour in regards to her past A by throwing it on your shoulders. It's not yours to bear.

Start to make changes that will make your own life positive. For your own sake, and for your M's sake. Take it day by day, and make a move. Don't allow your W to have victory over you when she herself is not perfect and certainly has made big mistakes too.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I just asked her to talk for a couple minutes. It ended in her saying she was mad because we were saying the same thing.

I told her that I was willing to do anything and everything I could to save our marriage but need you to help this as up marriage is a 2 way attest and we both screwed up things. Never addressed them properly, your cheating, my depression or lack of gumption,etc. i said what is holdin you back from giving it your all?

"she said that it's been many years with the same issues and that we had a very brief window where our marriage was halfway healthy" she said " I don't want to waste the rest of my life on something that is could fail again" I said if you focus on the bad that happened and the bad that might happen the. You won't be able to help the good happen or see the good that is happening in front of your nose.

Example: Tuesday after I decided to stay at the house against her will the house was slightly in shambles. I had been running around nonstop for the last 2 days with resumes and applications I get home she texts me 3 times I couldn get anything done so I called her and said get everything out now or I'm not goin to have time to clean the house. She the. Freaked out thinking that things were on their way back and the house would t be clean and I was slumping around. That is one thing keeping her from workin on us. Another is she doesn't think we can get our marriage to where we think it should be.

She says "I told you I would go to MC to see how we got here and where to go from here so we as individuals would know not to do it again" I told her that if you aren't going to marriage counseling to figure out how we screwed up and how not to let it happen again there isn't a reason to go to MC and you should seek individual counseling so you as a person can move past what you screwed up in our marriage" she she said "then I guess I need to go alone"

We stopped talking when I got emotional when our daughter said " your not going to be married anymore" mind you she is 3 soon to be 4 in September. I lost it and we stopped talking about it.
We never make headway and it always ends in "you are saying the same thing"

I feel it's time to put up and shut up, she wants to see the change I guess. I just don't know how long she has to see it before we can start to honestly work on fixing out marriage
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I just asked her to talk for a couple minutes. It ended in her saying she was mad because we were saying the same thing.

I told her that I was willing to do anything and everything I could to save our marriage but need you to help this as up marriage is a 2 way attest and we both screwed up things. Never addressed them properly, your cheating, my depression or lack of gumption,etc. i said what is holdin you back from giving it your all?

"she said that it's been many years with the same issues and that we had a very brief window where our marriage was halfway healthy" she said " I don't want to waste the rest of my life on something that is could fail again" I said if you focus on the bad that happened and the bad that might happen the. You won't be able to help the good happen or see the good that is happening in front of your nose.

Example: Tuesday after I decided to stay at the house against her will the house was slightly in shambles. I had been running around nonstop for the last 2 days with resumes and applications I get home she texts me 3 times I couldn get anything done so I called her and said get everything out now or I'm not goin to have time to clean the house. She the. Freaked out thinking that things were on their way back and the house would t be clean and I was slumping around. That is one thing keeping her from workin on us. Another is she doesn't think we can get our marriage to where we think it should be.

She says "I told you I would go to MC to see how we got here and where to go from here so we as individuals would know not to do it again" I told her that if you aren't going to marriage counseling to figure out how we screwed up and how not to let it happen again there isn't a reason to go to MC and you should seek individual counseling so you as a person can move past what you screwed up in our marriage" she she said "then I guess I need to go alone"

We stopped talking when I got emotional when our daughter said " your not going to be married anymore" mind you she is 3 soon to be 4 in September. I lost it and we stopped talking about it.
We never make headway and it always ends in "you are saying the same thing"

I feel it's time to put up and shut up, she wants to see the change I guess. I just don't know how long she has to see it before we can start to honestly work on fixing out marriage
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If she is willing to go to MC, then go. You said you would do anything to resolve your marital issues....so you have to do what it takes.

You both need to talk about root issues that lead to where you are. At counselling, you could talk to her about how much her A has affected you, and you can better understand where she is coming from.

Ask her again if she is willing to go to MC with you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I can't help but think that I enjoy beating my head up against a brick wall! I try to talk to her but she is so cold and shut off that she doesn't pay attention to anything I say.

This morning I woke up an hour before she did(without my alarm) and laid there staring at her wondering how we could have screwed up so bad that she wasn't really willing to try or seem like she wanted counseling to help us. I laid there and cried quietly.

She says that the happiness we were having was fake and we were ignoring the issues hoping they would go away! I told her no. I made the appointments I needed, and we needed and that I wasn't ignoring anything. We still had issues to work out and that we were enjoying each others company and having a good time in the moment.......something we should have been doing all along. She still sees it as fake.. How can you think that happiness is fake? How can I get her to realize that happiness with me isn't fake, living a lie or ignoring our issues?

I am torn to pieces right now. I am supposed to be leaving out of town for a long weekend of self empowerment training at a world renowned facility in Las Vegas, but I can't help but think that I'm not going to truly focus on myself, but what I want for our marriage!

I am soooooooo broken it's not even funny. I want to know how she has become so cold as to not want to feel anything or let anything in. I want to know who is coaching her. I want to contact her friend with a letter, but don't want my wife to get mad that I contacted her(she had gotten mad about recent contacts I have made) Stating that I am contacting her family and it's wrong.....well they are my family too lol . Her brother and his wife have valuable incite into marital issues, but she won't listen or talk to them. She says it seems like her sister(who she is very close with) is only trying to shove God down her throat and not listen to what she is really saying. This is why she has shut out family. I would contact this friend to see if she would talk to me even for 5 minutes about what my wife is feeling if she wouldn't tell my wife and then my wife gets mad at me. I have the letter all typed up all I have to do is forward it to her. I'm confused and lost.

I am trying to reach out to my wife to let her know that I mean what I say and I'm doing what I say, but nothing is working and I fear that counseling is just going to end in the finalization of the marriage being over.

Is she trying to use D to make me wake up and realize that I needed to change things in order for our marriage to work? I don't know, she says no but would she really tell me at this point? doubtful. It really truly feels like she is gone in every sense of the word :(
 
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