[Mybabysgotit]

Hey folks, so awhile back on another thread I mentioned a friend I have. His partner of 14 yrs at the time, had been in a full on EA/PA for 15 months. He'd had no real idea it was happening. He found out by taking her phone while she was sleeping on a gut feeling and checked her texts. That's when he found out. The whole affairs texts for the full 15 months were there. Alot where very brutally graphic and hurtful. That morning he confronted her. She didnt deny at all. He put the phone down and left the room for a few minutes and when he came back he took the phone from her and all the texts had been erased save the most recent one she had just sent the guy, saying the jig is up he knows.
So its been 17 months now and he has been pursuing reconciliation. We talk and text multiple times a day through the weeks. I have been with him almost the entirety of this situation. They have been living seperately now for 6 months for her to have space to work on herself. Its completely backwards the way things are happening. They did MC at the beginning, but it failed miserably. They just started MC again with a different therapist. it was bad in the first session.
Ok so you now have the back ground. So here's where I'm vexed. During this whole period he has cried, pleaded, done the pick me dance. Still does this. Swears he loves her and will never be happy again without her. Refuses to realize that he may not and probably won't, get rhe outcome he wants. He is so desperate for this to work, but he's the only one. She is very removed with this situation. She isn't sure after all this time if she can do this. Its not that she wants anyone else, she just doent know if she wants to continue period. Earlier in the day he tried to work with her on all this and she told him she does love him, but doesn't know if she loves him like that anymore. By the way, they have yet to have sex since the night before he found out.
Problem is he's obsessed with her. He's miserable and full of self loathing and faulting himself in all this, while she has set herself up with another place, has the kids and a good paying job.
We live in different states and 2 times I've called the police where he lives to do a welfare check on him as he had been talking of suicide. Tonite he called me very drunk, talking of what she'd said to him. How he can never be happy without her and again talking of suicide. Only this time he said he'd written to his family, gave his wallet and all his money to another person and told his estranged partner to let the kids know he'd died of natural causes!
I'm at work right now. I've run out of options. I'm hoping he's still around in the morning. Maybe if he is, I can draw on the wisdom and experience of all of the BS and even Waywards of how to help him deal with the fact that he's most likely not going to get the ending he wants and how to let go.
Sorry if this long. I'll be happy to answer any questions you have. Understand that if I don't respond quickly, its due to im working 12 hour night shifts.

In Florida, we had the Baker act where you can get help for your friend. Here in CA, it's the 5150 hold. Whatever state your friend resides in, I'm sure there's laws to protect him from himself.

 

[ShatteredKat]

Well, as usual - other TAM members have contributed "the way" forward.

Some folks are beyond "our" help - they need controlled help - controlled as in some time in a mental ward - he brain is malfunctioning. The fixation on his WW is one manifestation of said malfunction.

Oddly - I'm thinking he has already posted on SI as there is a strangely similar post just made.

This is such a sad story. I've seen men obsessed with a woman, but this is such an extreme case. He is convinced that he has no life outside of his cheating wife and is likely unreachable at this point. His only hope at this point is to get professional help and possibly as an in-patient at a mental health facility. Unfortunately, one of these times he just may be successful in ending things. Continue being a friend and a place where he can share his pain as it is really all you can do. At the end of the day, he needs to face reality, kick himself in the azz and rebuild his life. But it sounds doubtful that he has the will to do that. Sad indeed.

I lost a friend to self-deletion under similar circumstances. It was terrible.

Heres my take. Tell him you refuse to advise him as to the relationship issue until he takes concrete steps to stabilize himself mentally/emotionally. The only thing that concerns you now is his mental-emotional health. All else takes a back seat. At a minimum, he needs intensive therapy and possibly meds. This issue is paramount. He needs someone to speak this hard-to-hear truth to him consistently. You may not get through but its well worth trying. Sometimes, when they are that deep in their own head, they cant hear it but Id rather fail trying.

Stay at it TT, but utimately, its still their responsibility. I hope they find their way to health.

I'm with @maquiscat on this one. His friend needed personal help yesterday.

The marriage shouldn't even be a consideration right now because he's in a far more serious condition than just being down about it.

He's hung everything on his marriage/idea of his marriage and is suicidal without it.

 

[Divine&FemPatriciaBlue]

he is acting just as a spoiled kid. do they have kids?

He is? He’s acting like a mentally unstable man. Did you read the post entirely?

Yes they have kids.

 

[lifeistooshort]

I agree with others that she needs to tell him directly that it's over.

And he absolutely needs professional help. If we put aside her affair (which make no mistake was a ****ty thing to do) the suicide threats and claims he can't live without her are unhealthy and highly manipulative. He'll try to force her to come back or he'll kill himself.

If she hadn't had an affair we'd be telling her to get the hell away from this guy.

Work with her to get him committed so he can get help.

 

[Affaircare]

@TinyTbone ,

I worked on the Rape Crisis Hotline for a while in another state, and as you might imagine, there were frequently callers who would talk with us about suicide. People tend to have something in their life is painful and think of suicide because they "want the pain to stop." We had a protocol similar to this that we used to determine the severity of the suicide risk: About the Protocol - The Columbia Lighthouse Project

1. In a nutshell, people may think about killing themself but never say it out loud. This risk is there but not as urgent.
2. Some people will talk about it out loud, but that often means "listen to me, I'm hurting." This person is at risk and should be addressed.
3. Some people make a plan how they might do it, and that risk is MUCH higher. This risk is to the point of helping them get to a doctor or counselor.
4. And some people begin to do the things to enact the plan; for example, they being to give their things away, they got the pills they were going to use, and this risk is URGENT--call police or an ambulance or go to the emergency room.

I would recommend being over-reactive rather than under-reactive. If you can't tell if your buddy is #3 or #4, act like he's #4. Based on what you've written, I'd probably (AT MINIMUM!!) mention there could be physical reasons why he's so depressed and that a doctor could be a big help ... and then stay with him while he calls his doctor for an urgent appointment ... and then drive him to the appointment. Make that much effort! Lots of times people will go to their doctor because "it could be an illness" and they'll accept that. And doctors are smart enough to notice it's WAY more than an illness if a friend comes along and helps communicate how serious it really is...and when a doctor tells you, "I'm referring you to a specialist friend of mine" for some reason people take it better.

At max, it sounds like your friend may need to go to the emergency room. Now, you can go to the ER for an emergency room mental health assessment, especially if he's at risk of hurting himself or others. (A psychiatric emergency is when a person is an immediate danger to himself due to compromised thinking and/or judgement. ) The emergency evaluation always includes an assessment of the patient's living situation and social supports, as well as a brief understanding of how he spends the day (e.g., at work, at school, or in a day program). This assessment defines the patient's baseline level of function. Thus, he may be released with a prescription and an appointment to visit psych...or he may be involuntarily admitted for 72-hours for a more in-depth evaluation. And during the 72-hours, patients meet with various professionals (doctors, nurses, psychiatrists, etc.). They might be prescribed medication to relieve or eliminate certain symptoms. The goal is to provide brief stabilization coupled with a plan for discharge.

 

[ShatteredKat]

Very good info in your post Affaircare!

I had an acquaintance who got all his ducks in the row and then used a revolver to finalize.
No one knew - wife had divorced him for drug use and he was addicted and owed his pusher a lot - he saw no way out.
Made sure house was deed clear to his wife. Gave his cat to someone who loved cats. And left his junkie pusher with an empty bag.

Seems TinyTbone's friend near the breaking point. I hope TT can get him to mental health facility before to late . . .

 

[TinyTbone]

Hey everyone! I'm overwhelmed as to all the responses. Its good to here from so many the same song.
I texted and called him as soon as i got into my car to head home from work. Damn I was so relieved that he responded!!!!! Thankfully last night I managed to talk with him long enough that he got so smashed he passed out.
Now, I absolutely agree with several things that have been said and some id already lightly broached. First and most importantly is his mental health. He's been diagnosed bipolar 1, same as I and is on 2 different meds. However meds can only do so much. He needs intensive therapy. Even his estranged partner said at the MC session he's not ready for a relationship right now. What set this off was they had talked a bit about reconciliation. He started being pushy for answers and she said she does love him, but shes not sure she loves him romanticly anymore. I had told him this 8 months ago. I have advised him that he has to reach the point of indifference and let go the outcome. He needed to first focus on himself and his mental health. Work on healing. He has a very violent temper. Almost 16 yrs ago he all but beat a man to death. He was a coach for his young son st school. He found out that he had abused him, found his residence, knocked and when the man answered, drug him out and completely went off the deep end.
His partner finally got him to stop and as he said they went to the car to leave. When he saw his sons booster seat, he again just went berserk in rage, ran back to the man's door kicked it in and drug him back out and continued to beat him till the police arrive. His partner (wife i will say after this)was pregnant with their first child together. He has 2 sons from a previous wife. He was sentenced to 6 months in minimum security prison. His wife gave birth to their daughter while he was in prison. She passed at 3 months due to SIDS. He was allowed a 4 day furlough to be with his wife for the funeral. The only time he ever held her was after she had passed. He actually buried her himself. He never saw her alive.
This event was never dealt with. They both suffered in silence for 12 years, both broken, both full of pain, anger, grief and resentment. Part of this was what led her to her choice to step out of their relationship.
Because of his bipolar he is lazer focused on reconciliation at all costs! We have talked and talked and talked, argued every angle, word spoken and their meanings. He rips back and forth between wanting her with every fiber of his being to wanting to destroy her, nuke her life! 8 months ago I told him to wake up, she's stonewalling you and stringing you along with crumbs. That he needed to deal with reality, the reality that she really doesn't want reconciliation. At least not with the bipolar monster. He can't go more than 5 days without some sort of plea to let him back in, that he loves her. She has gotten a place of her own, furnished it, is continuing on with her nursing degree, has a well paying job and a car. Their daughters live with her primarily. I've told him to wake up. Shes gone. You love a memory, even she has said the exact same thing. She is moving on, why does she need you? She's doing better now than a year ago. He is absolutely obsessed to the point of wanting to end himself!
I'm in Tennessee and he lives in North Carolina. 7 hours travel. We have helped each other in learning to deal with being bipolar, but its way harder for him trapped in infidelity.

 

[ConanHub]

I don't care about his marriage @TinyTbone , I care about him.

He's destroying himself and threatening to end.

Did I miss it or did you find out if he's ok?

 

[ConanHub]

I don't care about his marriage @TinyTbone , I care about him.

He's destroying himself and threatening to end.

Did I miss it or did you find out if he's ok?

Asked and answered.

 

[TinyTbone]

I don't care about his marriage @TinyTbone , I care about him.

He's destroying himself and threatening to end.

Did I miss it or did you find out if he's ok?

He's ok! He got so smashed talking with me, he passed out on the phone. We talked awhile before my IC appointment.

 

[Diana7]

He's ok! He got so smashed talking with me, he passed out on the phone. We talked awhile before my IC appointment.

It may be that his drinking is stopping his bi polar medication from working properly.

 

[oldshirt]

The tough love here is he needs to be committed. He is time bomb ticking down. It's not your job to cut the red wire or the green wire to defuse it every time he gets unhinged.

Personality disorders, psych meds and alcohol are a witches brew danger and instability. Some times these people don't just hurt themselves. Sometimes they take the ex and the kids with them.

He's a danger to himself and others. It's not your job to fix him. It's not your job to defuse him or talk him off the ledge. It's not even your job to differentiate if his threats are credible or just cries for attention. If he's making suicidal/homicidal statements, he needs to be reported to the authorities so he can be sent to where he can get some definitive treatment.

 

[SunCMars]

Not condoning cheating at all on her part, but I wonder if that’s why she just hasn’t divorced him by now.

And, maybe (his mental condition) is why she sought love and comfort outside the marriage.

On TAM, we do not give moral credence, nor permission to commit to these actions.
We always prescribe, "Divorce, than find a new partner".

Hah!
So many millions never seem to get the message.
And, never will.

Not so odd, just reality.

.....................................

His wife likely does feel guilt, as she has not moved out, as of yet.

Yet, she is also not being helpful, in visibly dealing with this (his suicidal behavior).
Why is that?

His behavior is likely, not new.

Maybe she has tried in the past and has given up.
And, now she has made the marriage so much worse by her cheating actions.

Does this friend of yours have any family that can take him in?
Is so, where are they, why are they not helping?

Does she want to dissolve the marriage by seeing him end it, by (he) ending himself?
She has now, thrown up her hands, and totally given up?

 

[gameopoly5]

Hey folks, so awhile back on another thread I mentioned a friend I have. His partner of 14 yrs at the time, had been in a full on EA/PA for 15 months. He'd had no real idea it was happening. He found out by taking her phone while she was sleeping on a gut feeling and checked her texts. That's when he found out. The whole affairs texts for the full 15 months were there. Alot where very brutally graphic and hurtful. That morning he confronted her. She didnt deny at all. He put the phone down and left the room for a few minutes and when he came back he took the phone from her and all the texts had been erased save the most recent one she had just sent the guy, saying the jig is up he knows.
So its been 17 months now and he has been pursuing reconciliation. We talk and text multiple times a day through the weeks. I have been with him almost the entirety of this situation. They have been living seperately now for 6 months for her to have space to work on herself. Its completely backwards the way things are happening. They did MC at the beginning, but it failed miserably. They just started MC again with a different therapist. it was bad in the first session.
Ok so you now have the back ground. So here's where I'm vexed. During this whole period he has cried, pleaded, done the pick me dance. Still does this. Swears he loves her and will never be happy again without her. Refuses to realize that he may not and probably won't, get rhe outcome he wants. He is so desperate for this to work, but he's the only one. She is very removed with this situation. She isn't sure after all this time if she can do this. Its not that she wants anyone else, she just doent know if she wants to continue period. Earlier in the day he tried to work with her on all this and she told him she does love him, but doesn't know if she loves him like that anymore. By the way, they have yet to have sex since the night before he found out.
Problem is he's obsessed with her. He's miserable and full of self loathing and faulting himself in all this, while she has set herself up with another place, has the kids and a good paying job.
We live in different states and 2 times I've called the police where he lives to do a welfare check on him as he had been talking of suicide. Tonite he called me very drunk, talking of what she'd said to him. How he can never be happy without her and again talking of suicide. Only this time he said he'd written to his family, gave his wallet and all his money to another person and told his estranged partner to let the kids know he'd died of natural causes!
I'm at work right now. I've run out of options. I'm hoping he's still around in the morning. Maybe if he is, I can draw on the wisdom and experience of all of the BS and even Waywards of how to help him deal with the fact that he's most likely not going to get the ending he wants and how to let go.
Sorry if this long. I'll be happy to answer any questions you have. Understand that if I don't respond quickly, its due to im working 12 hour night shifts.

Your friend is what I describe as the long and suffering.
I had a couple of friends like that and just end up going around in circles seeing no end to the problem in sight.

Getting too involved with people like this will end up wearing you down and have to keep things in perspective.
You have given this friend your emotional support, advice even contacted his wife and this is all you can do.

Women don`t share the same empathy and compassion as men they are of a whole different mindset and men that become over emotional women perceive as wimps. When women are done they are done. Sorry but that`s the way it is.

If your friend threatens to commit suicide or even goes ahead with it it`s not your fault because there is nothing you can do.
Tell your friend if he needs to talk he can contact you at any time but let him make contact first and again this is all you can do.



Sorry, but that`s the way it is.

 

[SunCMars]

Mental illness is a real thing.

The person with it suffers, as does their family, as does society at large.

We toss these people in prisons, not mental institutions.

And, only, after they get violent.

Our legal system (idiots) have long ago, forced the closure of mental hospitals.
And, our Legislatures will not write (good mental institution protection laws) that cannot be overruled by pesky lawyers and judges.

We need to fund more mental help facilities.

Don't get me wrong, I love freedom, freedom for every human.
But, humans must remain civilized.

Early mental health intervention is helpful.
It is an illness that we, as a society, have to humanely address.

Prison is an option, of course, but should be the last option.

 

[Diana7]

I asked this before but has he family or close friends who live hear him? Maybe people who can pop in or have him stay for a while? Parents? Siblings? Aunts or Uncles? It would be far easier for them to keep an eye on him than you who live so far away.

 

[TinyTbone]

I asked this before but has he family or close friends who live hear him? Maybe people who can pop in or have him stay for a while? Parents? Siblings? Aunts or Uncles? It would be far easier for them to keep an eye on him than you who live so far away.

His surviving family live in Florida. Like myself, he is not prone to having close friends because of how the bipolar affects us. I was.fortunate enough to join the military early on and they seem to attract folks like me! It also helped me to discipline myself mentally.
So to directly answer your question, there isn't anyone who can or does just drop by.

 

[TinyTbone]

It may be that his drinking is stopping his bi polar medication from working properly.

It is and has! Especially since he had a gastric bypass done when he was 39. Sadly he is building a tolerance level to pre-bypass levels again. Its been a source of contention between us. I am pushing him to seek out help from AA. I dont drink period. Haven't in 41 years, so I've no use for drunkards.

 

[SunCMars]

I asked this before but has he family or close friends who live hear him? Maybe people who can pop in or have him stay for a while? Parents? Siblings? Aunts or Uncles? It would be far easier for them to keep an eye on him than you who live so far away.

Yes, it is they that have a vested interest, more than outsiders.

People's relatives have their own problems, and are no longer (invested) in being their brother's keeper.

This wife has given up.
Not in a good way.
But, I get it.

It is above her pay grade.

Sounds like everyone has given up, except OP, 'tinytbone'.

Society has so many pressing problems, and this man, along with millions of others, falls though the cracks, to the dregs below.

Bye, bye.
See ya.

More of that "Survival of the fittest" at its best.
No, its worst.

I have little hope, anymore.

 

[TinyTbone]

So we've been in close and deep communication now. I have ripped him a new one about this crap! He has to stop with the mind bending games. Told him i guarantee the next time he has this type of episode i will use my wifes phone while we talk and call the local police and explain how you're talking of suicide and causing physical harm to others. That will leave them little choice beyond picking him up and taking to hospital for several days for mental evaluation.
We've discussed his insane obsession for her. Yes I understand his guilt and shame of years of emotional abuse to those around, fueled by the bipolar as I too feel this. However I have chosen to take advantage of the lucidity and clarity the meds induce in my brain now. I've applied the 12 step program to do my best to repair the damage to all those around me. He should do this also.
He, 4 days ago, recieved a new assigned councelor for his meds. I am honest with him. I pull no punches. I understand deeply how his mind operates and process things and feelings. While talking last night I told him his wife IS correct in saying he isn't ready for a deep relationship yet. He needs to first focus on his own health first. Again she told him she knows she F'd up bad and yes she wants to work through this and emerge as a new and better family, but its impossible until he can get his mental illness under control.
I made contact with her last night as well and she clarified to me that in there MC session she had told him and the therapist its immpossible for her to exist with him when he is ripping from an insane mindset of wanting to destroy her, the AP and the world to the depths of self pity and loathing to the point of suicide. The therapist agrees and I can understand this! My wife, bless her, has endured this with me for most of our marriage when I was around and not deployed over seas.
He has a new appointment to see the new psychologist to adjust meds and talk with on the mental issues.
Another thing I told him. Because of how the bipolar works, the compulsion of emotions, he must learn to discipline himself to think before he opens his mouth to speak! Take a few moments to think about what you really feel and are going to say and how it will be recieved by others, interpreted by them and the reactions it will cause. It will delay emotional outbursts and allow for more calm and effective communication with those around you. Heck, take time to write things down and present things to your wife and therapist. Allow them to digest what you've written and talk of it.
My real thanks for all support and insight with this. Its hard enough for me to cope with my bipolar issues, but exhausting to deal with a younger version of me in him! I won't abandon him, he IS my brother from another mother! I've never known anyone that can completely finish my sentences and thoughts while conversing! Uncanny.