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if the shoe was on the other foot

12K views 88 replies 22 participants last post by  aine 
#1 ·
I had a EA with wife's friend she knows about it.... we are in MC.... it's a long mess of a story and I guess D-Day was 5 months ago... I cannot believe she did not leave ... I think if she did this I would have left... is that typical , the female stays more often and the male leaves?
 
#35 ·
Well for one thing stop making excuses as to why it wasn't that bad and thus you shouldn't need to be accountable for it. As for your wife "using it against you" that's something you'll have to suck up as she heals from this.

And stop trying to downplay what you did by theorizing that your wife MIGHT have cheated too unless you have actual evidence of it.

Stop dodging full responsibility. Yeah I know what I did was bad BUT.....its not so bad, she might have cheated, I don't want it thrown in my face, blah blah blah. All responses from a guy who doesn't take full responsibility and isn't willing to face consequences.

Ironic that someone who admits he did it to hurt his wife now doesn't think he should have to hurt by actually facing consequences. Not very good partner material.
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#37 ·
I had to google empathy.... I cannot tell that it destroyed her.... but I will take your word for it... I try to put myself in her shoes... and when I do I would have likely left...I can see why she wants to know where I am at all the time, and what I am doing.... in her head if she thinks I am gone too long , say I'm at the store for too long.... she will say, "did you have a problem at the store" you normally get in and get out and do not browse" so I know she is thinking, is he doing something ?

If I text a person from work and laugh, she wants to know who I am texting and if I am talking to more women than just her friend. She wants to know if when I was traveling for business if I had ONS..... I tell her I have never cheated until now....

I am selfish, it's all about me and what I want and how I feel ... I wanted to keep my family and wife and also play around... I think that called cake eating.... but when I think of her with someone else, it infuriates the **** out of me..... she has really spoiled me for years.... and she continues to do it. I do love her and I want to stay married... but I do not think I have ever experienced love on the level that you guys are talking about. either giving it or feeling it... I am not saying that she does not love me... she leaves for work earlier than I do and kisses me goodbye every morning... that is my clue to get up... BUT I think she does that so she can have the bathroom to herself... ( JK)

I mean its not like we have always been this way... I never cheated until now.... there were years of happiness, raising children, vacation, homes, cars etc... I think maybe I'm at a point 47 , where I am disappointed with what I have accomplished and feeling that my best days are over....


I have told her there is no one else, that I do not want to leave, I text her, I talk to her, I listen to her, I try to show her I love her. I tell her how great she looks, she did say I have to stop f**cking her and start making love to her... that hurt me... because I knew then she was hurting.


But doesn't everyone look at a stranger and think man , attractive, I would do that in a minute... and then the thought leaves your head... ?
 
#38 ·
I am selfish, it's all about me and what I want and how I feel ... I wanted to keep my family and wife and also play around... I think that called cake eating.... but when I think of her with someone else, it infuriates the **** out of me.....

But doesn't everyone look at a stranger and think man , attractive, I would do that in a minute... and then the thought leaves your head... ?


This thread is really making my head hurt.

:eek:
 
#41 ·
He said I have psychopathic tendencies. I am remorseful. I wish I had not hurt my wife....of course I feel guilt, I'm on here posting about it, going to see IC and MC.....

She might be biding her time until the kids are gone......I hope not.... I love her... but if she does leave I cannot stop her . I know I was wrong but does a short term EA equate to D
 
#42 ·
Each person is different, some have zero tolerance towards infidelity and some don't. What you said though equates to you think the EA was nothing, sort of matter of fact. Maybe My perspective of what you say is wrong but you have no empathy or remorse by saying "does a short term EA equate to divorce"? In your case I would say yes, but that's because I don't think you understand how devastating your actions really were.
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#44 ·
But that's not for you to decide. She is the one who was betrayed, who has to struggle with this for the rest of the marriage. For perspective, I am also a betrayed wife. My husband had several brief PAs. We are reconciling. If he had had even one EA, even if it lasted only two weeks, I'd probably have to divorce him. Everyone has different limits, boundaries, perspectives, etc. You can't predict or control the future. You just have to do the best you can with each day you are given. You may want to order the book "How to Help Your Spouse Recover From Your Affair: A Compact Manual for the Unfaithful." it's very short and very helpful - for both you and your betrayed wife.
 
#45 ·
So you are saying that there is no degree of sin... so I was to catch her talking to a person man or women and she was sharing information about our marriage ( I know she does by the way) that could be construed as infidelity as well.....

So for you, the EA is worse than the PA... so there are varying degrees based on how the betrayed sees it.
 
#46 ·
One good measure is how upset you'd be if your wife did the same thing, and my your own admission you'd be very upset. So that means you're full of poppyc0ck that it's not a big deal. You just don't want to have to be accountable.

If you could honestly say it wouldn't me a big deal of your wife did it you might have an argument.
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#47 ·
It sounds like you are restless and unhappy in your life, so you decided to kill two birds with one stone by having an affair - you could both punish your wife for your unhappiness, and get a little 'spice,' as you call it.

What I get from your posts is that you are very self-absorbed. You think your wife should leave you because you would leave her if the shoe were on the other foot. You actually sound like you've lost respect for her for trying to work it out. You are projecting your own feelings onto your wife. Since you do this, you are not capable of feeling her pain.

To answer your question, people stay for many reasons. I would like to think that I wouldn't stay with a man with your attitude and behavior, but we never know until we are in the situation.

You've destroyed the trust that your wife had for you. This is clear from both your behavior and hers. You've really hurt her. I don't know if you're a psychopath, but you certainly sound like someone with a narcissistic personality.

Instead of projecting your own feelings and understanding onto your wife, which only feeds the self-absorption, look only at yourself and what you have done. Look at your own humanity.

You made vows to someone who has had your children and has stayed with you and supported you. She is flawed like the rest of us, but she has kept her vows. You have broken your vows. You have broken the heart of the woman you say you love. You have cheated and lied and now you are blameshifting and minimizing. In general, you have not honored your wife, your marriage, or your family.

What does all this say about the man you think you should be? This, to me, is the question, not whether her reaction to your cheating is the 'right' one. You get low marks for humanity with what you have done. You should want to be a better man for yourself. Your wife is giving you the opportunity to do this work within the bounds of the family that you love. You should be grateful, not questioning her motives.
 
#49 ·
I did not ask for an open marriage, just a stupid thought... I would not tolerate a PA from her, if she had an EA I would want to know why and how we could fix it....

In therapy they also ask why I had the EA.... They also want to know what was wrong in the marriage . I am not blame shifting or blaming my wife, but if the marriage had been better in the first place maybe I would not be here... it takes two make it right and two to make it wrong.

I could have definitely handled it better. I should have talked to her , or had MC prior to the EA.... The EA just happened over time.... I did not set out for it to happen, but I did not prevent it either.
 
#50 ·
it takes two make it right and two to make it wrong.
I agree that it takes two to make it right, but one partner can certainly make it wrong all on his/her own. There are plenty of good people, working hard and honorably at their marriages & their spouses dishonor them. This is a character issue with the offending spouse, in my opinion. (Of course, you could say that what the blameless spouse actually contributed to the mess was picking the wrong person in the first place...)
 
#51 ·
Well what I mean is that while I am to blame for the EA, I am not 100% to blame for all the ****ty times in the marriage... it seems that all the responses are that I am 100% to blame and that's not true.

I did not get married to make my wife happy at any cost and to do anything and everything she wants. it's a partnership.... I do not feel that husbands and wives are responsible for making each other happy... that is a personal issue and one needs to make ones self happy.

Now that does not mean that I want try to make her happy, as a loving husband and provider...

BUT as the MC says, when we start peeling back the layers, we will find the root cause of the EA .... I feel that most of the time when there is cheating ( not serial cheating) there are underlying issues that both are to blame for ....

You guys act like she has not done anything wrong... she will get in a funk through no fault of mine and then take it oout on me by ignoring me, or really just being a *****
 
#67 · (Edited)
Did you ever think that maybe your wife sensed you were messing around and you were at fault for her moodiness? I myself am a BS, I was abused physically, mentally and emotionally, but I never cheated because I CHOSE NOT TO, unlike you who chose to step out. The other thing my EX used to say was he wasn't responsible for my happiness, true, but he was definitely responsible for my unhappiness when he was abusing and cheating on me . I'm sorry your not liking the responses here, but the reality is you made the decision to cheat and therefore it's all on you. As long as you keep saying your wife is responsible for your decision to cheat she can never fully reconcile, because your not accepting the blame, therefore the consequences.

You are correct in stating it takes two to cause the problem, which would be you an the OW!!! However, fixing what you two broke is on you, only you, not your wife.

Eta, No matter how bad you had it in your marriage, your wife has it worse, she's the one who married the cheater.
 
#52 ·
Those things that she does still do not lead to your cheating. They are not causal factors. There are so, so many ways that you could respond to the issues in your marriage that don't include infidelity, the infliction of horrible pain on your spouse.

Yes, you both own the problems in your marriage, but you 100% own the choice to cheat. Sorry, but I doubt you will find anyone here or at any of the other infidelity sites that will support you in your blameshifting.
 
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#55 · (Edited)
She was upset at first... and the OW is still her friend. The whole thing is really not going anywhere.... I think you are right I cannot see this going much further once the children are gone...

some days are fine some days she is a 100% Beauuuch she's on cymbalta

I think my expectations are too high.......

She has been a ***** for the past week... since daughter had a baby
 
#56 ·
She was upset at first... and the OW is still her friend. The whole thing is really not going anywhere.... I think you are right I cannot see this going much further once the children are gone...

some days are fine some days she is a 100% Beauuuch she's on cymbalta
She's a B because she is on Cymbalta?
Have you ever stopped to think she is depressed/has anxiety etc because she is married to a man who doesn't give a s*** and puts himself first?
You and your wife need to get a MC, thrash out your issues and see if you can make it work. Believe me, you could end the marriage but you will have exactly the same problems in the next relationship.

Instead of going around in circles, take charge, suggest MC and go and work your guts out at it, then see what happens. Maybe your wife is expecting a grand gesture from you instead of your stalling and blame shifting. Your wife sounds like a good woman, do something about it.
 
#57 ·
Well lets see everything was going pretty well last week I was trying very hard and she was receptive... then out of no where shes freaking *****... I asked here where she was and she said " since when do you care where I'm at.... total *****... I act like I care and she says this...

Said she was going to the mall to look for baby clothes, yet came home with nothing? So I ask her what's wrong and she says I just don't feel good.... I'm trying she is giving me ****.... I dont mind trying , but if she keeps rejecting and *****ing etc... then I cannot do anything else.....

Oh I know suggest another book for me to read.....
 
#58 ·
This thread is like a mirror to my behavior when i was in the middle of my EA, only i didn't blame my wife like you.
Dday, she took me back, i stopped my EA but very unremorseful. Months later she had her affair and when i found out she just copied all my lines that i used to her. Lying coward, not my fault i cheated you're such a bad spouse anyway. That was when i realized wow, what a cr4ppy attitude. You have empathy problem, clearly. NPD highly possible to, reeks all over your posts. I don't think you'll understand what's been happening to your wife unless it happen to you. So i don't have any advice. It's difficult to give advice one if you're not even receptive. 4 pages and you've always been defensive. Your posts are full of blameshifting, but but but.

What kind of advice are you looking for ? Or are you just looking for affirmation ?
 
#60 ·
Your wife will be up one day and down the next and if you were interested in making it work you would suck it up, you and only you got into this mess. Maybe you need to feel the pain of your wife betraying you then you'll be less flippant and less self centred. No one is going to tell you on this site that you EA was your wife's fault.
 
#64 ·
Been following this thread for a few days wanting to say something but not some long-winded diatribe.

K, I don't think you understand the magnitude of damage done by the EA. i don't think you can understand it unless you have been in your wife's shoes. The emotional betrayal to me is sooo much worse than anything a PA could have done. PA is an act that, once completed, is done, over with. An EA involves your STATE OF MIND. It is much worse than anything physical. I'm sure your wife's mind just races at times wondering exactly what horrible lies you told the OW about her to get her on your side. You have destroyed your wife mentally and emotionally with YOUR poor choices and you come on here implying you are looking for help and answers but the whole thread is about you defending your actions and shifting part of, if not all of the blame on your wife and your marriage.

If you aren't truly remorseful and own up to YOUR conscious choices and actions then you are a lost cause. No matter how things were in the rest of your marriage, there is NO excuse for what you did and nothing she did MADE you do that. Unless you can grasp that concept nothing else matters.
 
#69 ·
This post says it all kivadbd1, you don't love your wife, you don't care for your wife, you have deep resentment for your wife, you are trying to punish your wife, in fact, I wonder if you are even capable of loving someone other then yourself. You say you marriage wasn't good, and you fixed it with an EA with your wife's best friend. Sort of like setting out a salt block and expecting deer to stay away. Now you think you have to kiss your wife's a$$ because you had an EA. Anyone with remorse would work on healing their spouse, not kissing their spouses a$$. If I forget to pick up bread ill kiss my spouses a$$ or go back out, but if I cheated I would do so much more to heal my spouse. You see what you did as nothing, you blame shift to your wife, and quite truthfully you have no idea how clueless you are. If I call you any name or say you are a pathetic excuse for a human being I get banned, so I won't tell you that's what I think. Instead I'll tell you I feel sorry for you, I feel sorry that it must be tragic to go through life without feeling love.
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#68 ·
@kivadbd1,

This is likely to be the one and only time that I use my valuable time to reply to you, so rather than snapping back at me with some defensive remark, I'd like to request that you take some time to READ what I write, and then takes some time to THINK about what I write. Actually ask yourself something like: "Could this be true?" before you just react.

I also was a Disloyal Spouse. I had an internet affair--so it was not PA but we did do sexting. I bring this up because I think part of your defensiveness is that to you it feels like people are Loyal Spouses blaming you and telling you that you were wrong. As a FORMERLY Disloyal Spouse, I'm telling you that right now the way you view your marriage is 100% bass ackward.

Right now, based on the way you write and speak (and I'm guessing, the way you think) you view your marriage and your spouse essentially from the view of "What's In It For Me?" as if your marriage is all about meeting YOUR needs and making YOU happy. It sounds like your view of your spouse is very similar: that she is there as a means of meeting YOUR needs and making her responsible for your happiness. Do you notice the similarity there? Everything is based on YOU. Now I'm not saying a person shouldn't be "self-aware" or "self-interested" but as it regards marriage, viewing it from a self-center is exactly backward.

Marriage means that you look at yourself and you make a promise to spend your whole life getting to know YOUR SPOUSE and meeting HER needs and acting in a way that is loving toward HER. That means you get to know her intimately--emotionally, mentally, physically--and based on knowing her that well and spending your time investing in HER, that you learn what HER needs are and then learn the ways she likes to have her needs met! That you study her and find out what her personality is, and what means "I love you" TO HER. See how the focus is not focused on your belly-button but on being the type of man who will honor his promise and focus on HER?

Now again, I'm not saying you should be a servant or beta--the truth is that she also stood up before family, friends and God and promised to spend her time investing in you and learning your needs too. This is where people get the idea that marriage is a two-way street, because HE meets HER needs and SHE meets HIS needs and both promise to focus on the other rather than selfishly looking at themselves!

And yet I'm fairly positive that at this point your head will say: "YEAH BUT SHE didn't hold up her end of the bargain! She didn't meet MY needs! She <insert excuse here>...."

@kivadbd1, the reason we say here on TAM that those are excuses and not "reasons" is because cheating of any kind is like murder--THERE IS NO ACCEPTABLE REASON FOR IT. None. If she was not meeting your needs, the acceptable thing to do is to first check yourself and see if maybe you got lazy meeting hers. If you didn't, the next acceptable thing to do is to have a talk with her at a time that is not emotionally charged and request what you'd like her to do (she is free to agree or disagree and offer an alternative she would be willing to do). The next acceptable thing to do is to have a firmer talk that is not a threat (in an attempt to make her do what you want) but is stating to her clearly, out loud, that her refusal to meet your needs is harming you and harming the marriage, and that you consider it to be breaking a vow--that she is completely free to make her choice, but you will not continue in a marriage that does not include <XYZ> and that if she chooses to <XYZ> the consequence of that choice is losing the marriage, you, and the benefits of you. The final acceptable thing to do is to separate--then file for divorce.

The fact that you chose to commit adultery is 100% ALL ON YOU. Not one iota of that choice is on her, because as adults all of us are personally responsible for our own choices. You had plenty of moral options you could have chosen, and instead you chose to act in an immoral way. True repentance not only means stopping the affair, but also a 180 degree, complete U-turn change in your heart and how you look and feel about marriage and your spouse. It means actually see that indeed it was YOU ... not them. Did her behavior contribute toward making an environment in which you chose to be unhappy and look elsewhere? Maybe a little--life doesn't happen in a vacuum-- but did she "make" you cheat through her neglect? HELL NO!!! I repeat HELL. NO.

So when you do truly repent, it's not a matter of spending the rest of your life "kiss her @ss" but rather being willing to spend the rest of your life proving to your Loyal Spouse that they were right to take the risk on you. It's not a matter of letting your spouse hold it over our head forever either--at some point the Loyal Spouse has to agree to put the weapon of "you had an affair!" down and release their right to recompense because that's what forgive means! But to me, as someone who is FORMERLY Disloyal, I realize that my Dear Hubby had to feel safe and heal from the hurt I caused him before he felt safe enough to put his weapon down!

Envision it this way: you were the one with the sword carving up her heart, then she FOUND OUT about the sword and picked up her own dagger to defend herself, and you said: "Oh sorry! Sorry" and suddenly you just want her to put down her dagger without ever showing her that you are not going to attack her again and without acting in any way that is safe and helping her (like bandaging her wounds). You expect your "Oh sorry, I won't do that again" to be enough even though those are only words and you act exactly like you did before the sword attack--you expect her to "just trust you" and you just ran her through with a sword!

So what we are saying to you is this:

FIRST see the sword in YOUR hand, have the inner courage to take personal responsibility and admit it was you...and not her.

SECOND, put your sword down and bandage her wounds.

THIRD, change the way that you act and think. Don't act and think like you did right before the sword attack or she'll expect another sword attack.

FOURTH, you broke the trust, so by acting and thinking about your marriage and spouse in an entirely new, different way, you take the time to slowly rebuild trust--not by forcing her to "just trust you" but by actually taking the time to ACT in a trustworthy way!
 
#72 ·
Afffaircare, thank you for your response. I am thinking about this a lot as I am posting a lot on the site.... If I really did not care for her I would not be looking for help. I am defensive... I do know it was my fault for having the EA with her friend. I knew she would eventually find out. I do not treat her the way you say I should if I loved her... when she is a ***** I am a ***** back.... when she is nice I am nice. but maybe she does not love me either, and we use each other for financial support, and to help each other raise children..

Right now we have an active sex life, she knows if she does not then I will definitely leave her.... but I can tell she does not always want to do this... It's like I have to have sex to love her, while she has to love me to want to have sex.

I have a difficult time letting my wife " in" I saw this online and I feel this way

I’d love to trust my wife to just care for me without needing to control my every thought and action. I’ve found that the less you tell someone about what you need, the less information they have to control you. I know I’m staying inside my shell and I’m probably missing some possible closeness, but I guess I’d just rather be alone than let someone know who I really am. Every time I’ve let a partner really see what really make me happy or sad, she for sure will use that against me later when she want’s something I can’t give her. I can’t risk that potential for emotional blackmail.
 
#73 ·
Kiva, file for divorce. End this so that you can go on a make yourself happy. You don't need a mouthy, moody, miserable b****, on your ass every hour of the day. You need your freedom, so you can go explore how you can be happy on your own.

You should keep f**king the OW, your wife deserve that because she is too stupid to keep being friends with her when she knows what is going on.

You don't need to kiss her ass. She should kiss your ass because you decided to stay with her crazy ass. You broke off your fling, that was making you happy. You sacrifice your happiness for her and she now has the gall to be unhappy and angry. How dare her, after all you did for her.

F her. Why should you worry about her happinesses. Does she worry abut yours? She did you wrong so many times. She could not make you happy with all of her demands, a moodiness and expecting you to live for her and make her happy. Sleeping with her best friend was the best thing you could have ever done for her. You showed her what a who*e her best friend was and help her got rid of the bit*8.

She should be thanking you. Kissing your feet. Now dump her underserving ass and go live your happy life in fairyland.
 
#74 ·
When you actually take the time to write in a thoughtful way, I find what you say to be very sad. You think that opening up to someone who loves you will expose you to emotional blackmail.

This is semantics, in my opinion. What you refer to as blackmail, I think I would consider the normal expectations within a loving, intimate relationship.

It sounds like you want only the effects of marriage that you think will be obviously advantageous to you, but marriage is hard work sometimes and we do many things for our spouses that aren't our first choices. We do them without expectation of return. We have to do these things sometimes because that's what loving someone is.

You can't get close, you say, but then you expect your wife to behave in certain ways. You've decided that your cheating just wasn't a big deal - don't say you don't think this - your posts are clear.

I think it's tragic that you are so hellbent on ruining your marriage. You show no serious empathy for your wife. You know, the word 'heartbroken' is in the language for a good reason. You have broken your wife's heart with your A.

She sounds like she has enough knowledge of you to understand that you would never really see her pain if she let it all hang out there in front of you everyday. What's the point of showing you her pain? You refuse on principle to get it, so why should she bother? So, you can just go on deluding yourself that you haven't really trespassed so badly.

But infidelity is a betrayal that is like no other. It isn't a misunderstanding or an argument that fades away in a week or so. It's a complete game-changer in a marriage. You have changed the game, but don't want to believe that. You have, though. I think you will be surprised as the weeks and months go by and your wife shows you again and again how important your betrayal is to her. You don't just destroy trust in a relationship and then say, 'never mind.'
 
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