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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My marriage goes from great to horrible. Right now, it is horrible. For the last couple of months, the only times we have been intimate have been after I push and push and push and finally get 'duty' sex. Maybe every 10 days or so.

I try to establish boundaries, have a huge fight and try to explain that I won't live like this. But she doesn't listen or care. We are in the middle of one of those fights now.

How do you make someone care? How do you make someone want you? I have read MMSL. I am not Beta. I do some of those things. At times, I tell her, not ask her. I work out a few times a week.

When we fight about it. She accuses me of only caring about sex. My kids are older (a couple out of high school) but they still live at home. They know that we fight about how cold my wife is to me (affectionately and sexually).

How do you leave a marriage over sex? I feel like I will look like a shallow person. I am pro-marriage. Virtually nobody in my family is divorced.

It would be easier if she cheated on me. I could leave the marriage with a 'valid' reason.
 

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You can't make someone care :(

You CAN control yourself and change your situation.

It's not shallow to leave over no sex from a woman perfectly capable of having sex.

You have one life in this lifetime. I don't know how you want to live it, but this wouldn't be ok with me. When we got married, we didn't sign up to be ignore/rejected/have to beg for sex o_O I'd rather be single.

Do what you think is best, but KNOW that you can't make someone care. Listen to what she's saying...she doesn't care.

To me, that's not a marriage. It's a prison. You are legally binded to a person who treats you like you don't matter. That is awful.

I'm sorry...that sucks. I know that feeling.
 

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I think sometimes people are just so far checked out of the marriage, there is no turning around. I'm not saying thats the case for you, but if you feel you have done or tried everything you know, then the main question to ask yourself, is, exactly what are you trying to hold onto? Do you feel its hope you're hanging on to? Hope things will change? I'm not saying thats always a bad thing, but there is such a thing as false hope.
 

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This is what works for me: Instead of asking your wife for sex, ask her if she will lay down with you on the bed. Hold her, talk to her, ask her how her day is/was. Get emotionally intimate with her before asking her to be sexually intimate with her.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I think sometimes people are just so far checked out of the marriage, there is no turning around. I'm not saying thats the case for you, but if you feel you have done or tried everything you know, then the main question to ask yourself, is, exactly what are you trying to hold onto? Do you feel its hope you're hanging on to? Hope things will change? I'm not saying thats always a bad thing, but there is such a thing as false hope.
I am almost 50 years old. I should have done something about this many years ago.

My choices are:

1) Leave. Which means giving half of everything to my SAHW. Also paying her Alimony for the rest of my life. Means instead of retiring in 5 years, it will be more like 10 or 15 years.

2) Stay. Get 'duty sex' every 10 days or so. Have a real loving relationship for maybe one week every month or so, because at times it can be good. Retire earlier and travel more with my wife. Maybe retirement will make us closer. Or worse .... who knows.

Right now, I am doing a 180. I am going to live for me. Make sure my kids are OK and try to do as much as I can outside the home. Maybe moving on (while staying married) will make my wife realize that she needs to put in some effort.

On Sunday, I leave for Phoenix for a week of golfing. Hoping the time away will make her think about us.
 

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I am almost 50 years old. I should have done something about this many years ago.

My choices are:

1) Leave. Which means giving half of everything to my SAHW. Also paying her Alimony for the rest of my life. Means instead of retiring in 5 years, it will be more like 10 or 15 years.

2) Stay. Get 'duty sex' every 10 days or so. Have a real loving relationship for maybe one week every month or so, because at times it can be good. Retire earlier and travel more with my wife. Maybe retirement will make us closer. Or worse .... who knows.

Right now, I am doing a 180. I am going to live for me. Make sure my kids are OK and try to do as much as I can outside the home. Maybe moving on (while staying married) will make my wife realize that she needs to put in some effort.

On Sunday, I leave for Phoenix for a week of golfing. Hoping the time away will make her think about us.
IMO, if my husband 180'ed me, I would ask him to leave outright. Doing a 180 when you are emotionally/sexually distant is like attempting to put out a fire with gas.
 

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I hope she does think about 'you guys'.

I'm glad you are doing the 180. That's a good measure for yourself. Stop focusing on her so much.

Maybe ask her for an open marriage. I dunno. Probably not your thing. But if she's treating you poorly...maybe she wants you to leave?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
This is what works for me: Instead of asking your wife for sex, ask her if she will lay down with you on the bed. Hold her, talk to her, ask her how her day is/was. Get emotionally intimate with her before asking her to be sexually intimate with her.

This is what we do. But she avoids me. She stays up as late as possible so that I am either a sleep or if I approach her, she says it is too late and she needs to sleep.

If I ask her to come to bed, she accuses me of only wanting sex.

The last few times we have been intimate it has been like you say. Sunday morning, I wake up at 8am or so. I get up, have breakfast, watch tv or shovel the driveway or whatever. At 11am or so, I go back into the bedroom and hug her. She pushes me away. Gives me hell for waking her up. I continue to lay there with my arm on her. Eventually, she warms up a bit. We talk about things. The caressing leads to more and eventually we make love. By the way, the caressing is me rubbing her back or neck or legs. Usually she has something that is sore that I try to rub. She touches me very little. If I touch her breasts or between her legs too soon, she gets pissed off at me, so I am guessing what she wants. Usually, the first time she touches me is when she reaches for my c0ck.

Sex happens, but not without a fight and not without me thinking that she didn't really want to. Even though she always gets her 'O', I still feel like it was duty sex.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
IMO, if my husband 180'ed me, I would ask him to leave outright. Doing a 180 when you are emotionally/sexually distant is like attempting to put out a fire with gas.
So what do you suggest?

The more I try, the more she pushes me away!
 

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That's why he's going to start his 180. A 180 from his way of behavior now.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Stop making it the main focus of your life. If you are hungry and you keep thinking about food, you will think of how much you aren't getting food.
That is easier said then done.

Is your love language physical touch/intimacy?

We make love and I am fine for a few days. Happy! I am nicer to everyone at work and at home. I do more things for my wife, like help with supper and with cleanup. But after four or five days, I feel I need some affection. I approach her and get rejected. She starts to stay up late to avoid me. She gets cold and I get grumpy. Eventually, I get duty sex by pushing for it.

I have managed to do what you say for a month or so. What ends up happening is that we get more and more distant. My love language isn't being met. If I am reading 'her calendar' correctly we might end up having sex when she is ovulating (when she wants it).

Sex once a month is not the life I was hoping for or need to be happy. Duty sex 3 times a month isn't cutting it either. Thus my dilemma!
 

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In an LTR the ideal emotional temperature is one that BOTH people are comfortable with. Couples often “fight” for decades over the “thermostat” setting. He likes it really warm and constantly shows and wants to be shown love. She is likes it cooler and dislikes constantly being barraged with “love” as it makes her feel emotionally crowded. She starts seeing him as “clingy and insecure” and she withdraws. He clings harder, she pulls back further feeling ever more crowded. Sex dies and he frantically tries to raise the temperature using an ever increasing stream of love. She loses respect and ends it or has an affair.
When you overheat someone with too much love, THEIR natural reaction is to try to “cool off” by giving you less love and less OR by provoking conflict to get you to go BACK UP. And they often reduce/stop having sex with you because when they already feel overheated/claustrophobic the LAST thing they want is the intense closeness of sex. Below is an example of badly mismatched thermostat settings.

The WARM/HOT partner wants to “raise” the temperature so they:
1. Are almost always saying ILY or IAILWY first
2. Typically initiate calls/texts/emails when apart/one or both are at work
3. Make “peace” after a fight even when your partner clearly wronged you
4. Walk around visibly angry/VERY angry after a fight (this comes across as “I am furious that you – the person I LOVE SO MUCH – is doing x,y,z to ME
5. Anxiously keep trying to make up when you were in the wrong because you cannot bear having them angry with you
6. Are mostly/always initiating physical contact (hugs, kisses, touches, groping)
7. When anxious you initiate “talks” about the R, typically to “fix” them/their behavior
8. Do MORE, sometimes WAY MORE than your fair share of housework
9. Put their needs ahead of yours whenever there is a priority conflict
10. Are constantly seeking their approval
11. Show anxiety or fear when they are angry/frustrated with you
12. Initiate sex when their body language radiates a “lack” of interest/desire, pout/sulk get angry when they tactfully decline sex
The COOL partner wants less warmth so they:
1. React irritably/with hostility to HOT behaviors such as:
a. Discussions about the R
b. Requests for sex. An irritated “NO” when asked for sex is an attempt to throw a bucket of ice water on a painfully overheated moment
2. Often behave more and more disrespectfully to their warmer partner and often steadily deprioritize both the partner and the R hoping to lower the temperature
3. Provoke their partner to create conflict and space

The Warm partner thinks they are repeatedly conveying “I LOVE YOU” with all this activity. The Cooler partner actually hears it as a question, repeated over and over ad nauseum: “Do YOU love ME”? Imagine if you replaced every loving act by literally asking “Do you love me”? How well do you think THAT would fly.

The core message this thermostat mismatch sends to the cooler partner is: I DON’T DESERVE YOU. And over time your behavior convinces them you are right.
 

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It doesn't sound like it's only about sex, the affection part seems missing too, which seems to be another reason that disappoints you too.

Do you only get affectionate before initiating sex? Or when you are affectionate, most of the time is about sex?

Maybe you should talk with each other, and ask her why is she not into sex anymore. Is it due to lower sex drive due to her age? Or does she have any resentment towards you pent up over years? Or are you initiating things in the wrong ways or wrong occasions (she might not like being waken up in the morning)? Or does she feel that you're affectionate mostly for sex? Also, what do you usually do after sex?

There are many reasons that can affect a woman's interest in sex. If it's not a physical issue, then you need to figure out the emotional ones. Also, make sure to take care of the emotional bond before the sexual bond, sometimes without good emotional bond, women might not feel like having physical bond. And by thinking that men are only interested in their bodies it would make them less emotionally bonded.
 

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That is easier said then done.

Is your love language physical touch/intimacy?

We make love and I am fine for a few days. Happy! I am nicer to everyone at work and at home. I do more things for my wife, like help with supper and with cleanup. But after four or five days, I feel I need some affection. I approach her and get rejected. She starts to stay up late to avoid me. She gets cold and I get grumpy. Eventually, I get duty sex by pushing for it.

To her then it is all about sex, maybe she thinks your only being nice because you got some lovin & your doing those things because you want sex...


I have managed to do what you say for a month or so. What ends up happening is that we get more and more distant. My love language isn't being met. If I am reading 'her calendar' correctly we might end up having sex when she is ovulating (when she wants it).

Sex once a month is not the life I was hoping for or need to be happy. Duty sex 3 times a month isn't cutting it either. Thus my dilemma!
Believe me I get where your coming from, sort of in a simular siuation, but one thing I can tell you with out a doubt, the push and push and push for sex when she cleary dosent want to, is pure beta (been there done that) and the message it sends is we are weak and cant control ourselves and that my friend is a big turn off for women.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
In an LTR the ideal emotional temperature is one that BOTH people are comfortable with. Couples often “fight” for decades over the “thermostat” setting. He likes it really warm and constantly shows and wants to be shown love. She is likes it cooler and dislikes constantly being barraged with “love” as it makes her feel emotionally crowded. She starts seeing him as “clingy and insecure” and she withdraws. He clings harder, she pulls back further feeling ever more crowded. Sex dies and he frantically tries to raise the temperature using an ever increasing stream of love. She loses respect and ends it or has an affair.
When you overheat someone with too much love, THEIR natural reaction is to try to “cool off” by giving you less love and less OR by provoking conflict to get you to go BACK UP. And they often reduce/stop having sex with you because when they already feel overheated/claustrophobic the LAST thing they want is the intense closeness of sex. Below is an example of badly mismatched thermostat settings.

The WARM/HOT partner wants to “raise” the temperature so they:
1. Are almost always saying ILY or IAILWY first
2. Typically initiate calls/texts/emails when apart/one or both are at work
3. Make “peace” after a fight even when your partner clearly wronged you
4. Walk around visibly angry/VERY angry after a fight (this comes across as “I am furious that you – the person I LOVE SO MUCH – is doing x,y,z to ME
5. Anxiously keep trying to make up when you were in the wrong because you cannot bear having them angry with you
6. Are mostly/always initiating physical contact (hugs, kisses, touches, groping)
7. When anxious you initiate “talks” about the R, typically to “fix” them/their behavior
8. Do MORE, sometimes WAY MORE than your fair share of housework
9. Put their needs ahead of yours whenever there is a priority conflict
10. Are constantly seeking their approval
11. Show anxiety or fear when they are angry/frustrated with you
12. Initiate sex when their body language radiates a “lack” of interest/desire, pout/sulk get angry when they tactfully decline sex
The COOL partner wants less warmth so they:
1. React irritably/with hostility to HOT behaviors such as:
a. Discussions about the R
b. Requests for sex. An irritated “NO” when asked for sex is an attempt to throw a bucket of ice water on a painfully overheated moment
2. Often behave more and more disrespectfully to their warmer partner and often steadily deprioritize both the partner and the R hoping to lower the temperature
3. Provoke their partner to create conflict and space

The Warm partner thinks they are repeatedly conveying “I LOVE YOU” with all this activity. The Cooler partner actually hears it as a question, repeated over and over ad nauseum: “Do YOU love ME”? Imagine if you replaced every loving act by literally asking “Do you love me”? How well do you think THAT would fly.

The core message this thermostat mismatch sends to the cooler partner is: I DON’T DESERVE YOU. And over time your behavior convinces them you are right.
That is my life. 100%

I have made her colder by constantly trying to make her warmer.
 

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IMO, if my husband 180'ed me, I would ask him to leave outright. Doing a 180 when you are emotionally/sexually distant is like attempting to put out a fire with gas.
So if he treats her like she is treating him he is wrong?

Stop making it the main focus of your life. If you are hungry and you keep thinking about food, you will think of how much you aren't getting food.

Ahh so he should continue to starve emotionally from her coldness, but he should just be more quiet about it? And obviously you aren't a sexual person. I am and I can't just "turn it off" to suit another.

Two choices left: 180 or divorce. You can hope that the 180 will wake her up to what she will be losing, but she may be too far gone. If it doesn't wake her up at least you will know where you stand.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Believe me I get where your coming from, sort of in a simular siuation, but one thing I can tell you with out a doubt, the push and push and push for sex when she cleary dosent want to, is pure beta (been there done that) and the message it sends is we are weak and cant control ourselves and that my friend is a big turn off for women.
I understand that. But if I do nothing, nothing happens. Sexless marriage.

Part of my wife's problem is her childhood. Her dad was an alcoholic. He was verbally abusive. She was never allowed a boyfriend when in high school. If she went out, he would tell her she 'looked like a ****'.

After I push and push and push and we make love. Often we will hold each other afterwards. And she will thank me for pushing for it. She will thank me for knowing her so well and for knowing that she needs to be pushed to be intimate.

She will tell me she is sorry and that she will put in more effort. It just never happens.
 

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So if he treats her like she is treating him he is wrong?




Ahh so he should continue to starve emotionally from her coldness, but he should just be more quiet about it? And obviously you aren't a sexual person. I am and I can't just "turn it off" to suit another.

Two choices left: 180 or divorce. You can hope that the 180 will wake her up to what she will be losing, but she may be too far gone. If it doesn't wake her up at least you will know where you stand.
My love language is acts of service, if my husband doesn't do these acts, does this mean that I get to betch at him constantly and nag him to do them and if he does do them after I betch at him, do I get to gripe and whine because he only did them because I wanted him to do them? Why/why not?

Unbeknownst to some on here, BOTH husband/wife are missing out in the intimacy here, not just the one that wants sex the most.
 
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