[oldgeezer]

Ok, that was slightly in jest... But the need is real and serious.

My time at TAM is almost over. The wife arrives home Wednesday and let's just say that by then I have to erase all chance that she'll ever see me here, see this place in my history, unsubscribe from the threads, remove all the email evidence, etc, etc.

If she caught wind that I was talking to people about my relationship with her and talking about her, my city would vaporize due to the thermonuclear explosion which would happen.

Over my time here I've become acutely aware that my decoding skills- that is, my ability to comprehend the meaning behind what she tries to tell me - are seriously not good.

Sitting and watching videos that take hours and hours is not an option. I absorb information ever so much faster than that, and don't have the free time - especially alone. So, whether it's a book or whatever, I really do need to find a source of learning how to understand what she means by what she says. No, i don't mean she isn't meaning what she says, but I do get that her complaints are almost never literal... and I am extremely literal, both in how I talk and how I absorb things.

I'm good at figuring stuff out, but I need some kind of roadmap to figure out how to get there.

We've had discussions about how she talks to me, but they have no impact, so I'm quite sure I'm not getting it across. It's kind of like this. So, one day when I'm in THAT mood, I walk up and fondle her backside. She gets mad and says something to the effect of "when I'm not in the mood for that, that just annoys me, I decide when I'm in the mood, not you, so just knock it off!".

Meaning to me: You have to wait until she initiates sexual contact, or at least until she overtly invites it. Which NEVER happens. Or at least not until such time as I'm long past frustrated to the point I am PO'd to my core, and then she gets in bed with me, naked and lays there staring at the ceiling with daggers in her eyes and just oozing PO'd.

This does not exactly inspire the thought I'm supposed to initiate sex. So, 10 minutes later, after some really hurtful snide remarks about how nobody cares about her and she might as well just be some ugly old witch, I finally gather that I was supposed to suddenly be enthusiastically jumping her bones.

ok, so I was told to never initiate sex. And then I was screamed at for not.

Obviously I missed something here. A lot of something. A few months worth of something. This didn't turn from "don't touch any intimate parts of me" to "get it up and get me off, I want it now!" without there having been some kind of clues that I missed. Or, I've interpreted everything totally wrong. I'd buy any / all of it at the moment.

So, I need the secret magic decoder ring. Yes, there are things out there, I found some links to some great stuff... but I am a techie. I need the quick reference book until the stuff's memorized. And yes, that's tongue in cheek, but I'm hoping someone gets it.

Is there such a thing? Perhaps titled "decoding women's thoughts for dummies" or something? I can have and read books, but telling someone else what she's done or we've done or "revealing" intimate things... Yup, totally verbotten. I'm only supposed to ask her, talk only to her, confide ONLY in her, any and everything else is about equal in status to me jumping in bed with some hot chick from the down street in the "betrayal" department. I cannot begin to tell you how ferocious her anger would be (and was) when she found I asked others for and shared experiences.

Yeah, I've had this experience before. So... Yeah, this has taken some nerve to be here and I have risked absolutely guaranteeing a divorce and her undying hatred and vengeance for the rest of my life. But, no risk, no opportunity.

Any help appreciated.

 

[KathyBatesel]

I truly don't get why you stay. You sound terrified of her. You've gotten great suggestions this week. Copy the 180 and stash it somewhere she won't see it but where you can review it each day.

When she gets into her anger, leave.

When she blames you, recognize that she's really talking about herself. The things a person most resents are the ones they are most guilty of doing. Prime example: "You don't let me influence you" when the reality is that she expects you to do everything her way.
Of course, recognizing that doesn't mean you can confront it without risking a blow-up, but it does mean you can remind yourself that you're choosing to be with a person who won't accept influence. Listen to her accusations carefully.

As far as sex, I would encourage you to step back and flirt, use non-sexual touch, and to cope with your own ambivalence. Print out the stuff that has been helpful to you and keep it with your printout of the 180.

Best wishes.

 

[oldgeezer]

I truly don't get why you stay. You sound terrified of her. You've gotten great suggestions this week. Copy the 180 and stash it somewhere she won't see it but where you can review it each day.

When she gets into her anger, leave.

When she blames you, recognize that she's really talking about herself. The things a person most resents are the ones they are most guilty of doing. Prime example: "You don't let me influence you" when the reality is that she expects you to do everything her way.
Of course, recognizing that doesn't mean you can confront it without risking a blow-up, but it does mean you can remind yourself that you're choosing to be with a person who won't accept influence. Listen to her accusations carefully.

As far as sex, I would encourage you to step back and flirt, use non-sexual touch, and to cope with your own ambivalence. Print out the stuff that has been helpful to you and keep it with your printout of the 180.

Best wishes.

We have had conversations on the "literal" communication before, and I think she tries. Just not all the time.

I've explained to her that when I say "I don't like green pants" that nothing about my dislike of green pants changes. Ever. Unless I say "Hey, I like green pants now".

And she says stuff that I guess maybe you could say "in the heat of the moment" that later are obviously not what she thinks... or, she changed her mind.

Or, she's lying to me.

One day after visiting our middle daughter, who is just 22, and living with a 60 year old psychopath, she got mad about something and growled that she should have gone to live with him, instead of me. What you have to know about him, is that if murder by mother to save the daughter was legal, he'd be 6 feet under, pushing up daisies from the day she met him. I cannot begin to describe the loathing she has for him. (shared, I do, too).

And yet, she says she loves me.

And refuses to even acknowledge she ever said that.

I'm having an obviously difficult time getting past it and a number of similar things.

You can't unring bells like that once rung. You can't unsay words. I have bit my tongue and not said all the angry and heat of the moment stuff. I learned long ago you can't undo one stupid moment. It was a lot of regretting and apologizing and demonstrating I really, really did not mean what I'd said in haste.

I often will say nothing, no matter how furious I might be... I don't trust myself to not blurt out something I would regret. And I do expect that kind of consideration as well.

Is that unreasonable?

 

[Chris Taylor]

I used to work with a lot of younger workers, inexperienced in the world of business and work ethics and always felt that you had to show a flash of anger at the right time to get attention.

In your case, you seem to want to back off, and that hasn't helped remedy the situation, right?

You don't want to say something you will regret so think about something that you would like to say that might help the situation, practice it and have it ready. For example, next time she says something belittling, your angry comeback is "I don't expect and won't tolerate being talked to like sh!t by my wife!" and walk away.

She has to realize you are drawing a line in the sand and will hear about it whenever she crosses it.

 

[MuleM]

I've not read your other posts yet, so I guess I'm missing a lot of the story. As far as hitting on her goes though, I agree she's probably wanting more of compliments, smiles, hugs, maybe helping her out with day-to-day chores, things like that to put her in the mood, make her feel cared about.

As to remarks made in the heat of the moment..In my experience there are people who believe all is forgiven when the argument is over. In my opinion it's poison and not easy to patch up afterwards if ever, especially if you aren't used to that way of fighting or choose to refrain. No advice..I'm sorry you're going through it.

 

[Bobby5000]

Please don't take this the wrong way and I have had to work on my people skills. It's a hard road for technical people like us who seek clear rules and principles. That said, here are some suggestions,

Just do things normal. Watch how people behave and interact and do things the same way; try to eliminate your quirkiness because it may not be working.

1. She is not "the wife" She is Pam, Jane, or my wife.

2. Dress nicely. Go to a high-end store in town. Women judge people on what they wear. I understand you're a techie and many do not care about clothes.

3. For books, Read Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus, or How to Win Friends and Influence People.

4. Watch what a good friend who is very popular and does well with women does and duplicate that. Be confident, throw a few compliments that are not sexual.

5. Don't smack her on the butt. Pick out a nice restaurant, set the mood, listen to what she has to say. Mood, dress, environment, what others are doing, these are cues.

5. Don't ever do what I just did here. Don't criticize or be the one breaking bad news.

6. Plan and make reservations, that seems to bring them to orgasm quicker than anything else.


All that said, if this does not seem to be working, I would not take a lot of crap from her.

 

[SunnyT]

Read "The Four Agreements".... leave it out so she'll see it too, maybe she'll read it. Or just tell her why you are reading, so that you two can communicate better....suggest reading it together, or at least share stuff you've read.

 

[KathyBatesel]

And I do expect that kind of consideration as well.

Is that unreasonable?

It's unreasonable to expect reasonable behavior from an unreasonable person. As I said, you sound terrified of her. What you have is more of an addiction than a love.

 

[Juicer]

So doesn't sound like she is affecionate.
Doesn't sound like you two ever have sex.
Doesn't sound like she even loves you...

So what are you to her? A human wallet?

 

[oldgeezer]

It's unreasonable to expect reasonable behavior from an unreasonable person. As I said, you sound terrified of her. What you have is more of an addiction than a love.

I understand you think this way. But I disagree.

If I were just following my instincts, I would have run long ago. I think I have a handle on what an addiction is, and this is NOT that. This is my conscience telling me I need to do what I need to do, and make my absolute best shot at making things work. After all, I said "in sickness and health, for richer or poorer..." and some other things, too. I do not break my word for mere emotional trauma. Besides, despite your judgment, she has good qualities - she's still the person I fell in love with and married, and that being case, I believe if we can stop the bad habits that have sabotaged our relationship and communication, I will again.

For my own sake, I must do absolutely everything in my power, including changing my behavior and issues, in an effort to make it work. If I have to go, I will only do so either because she absolutely insists, or I know I have done all it is possible to do, and I can do knowing that.

 

[oldgeezer]

So doesn't sound like she is affecionate.
Doesn't sound like you two ever have sex.
Doesn't sound like she even loves you...

So what are you to her? A human wallet?

I haven't been open to her either, so, how can I blame her?

So, I'm going for broke. Only time will tell, now.

 

[Tall Average Guy]

I understand you think this way. But I disagree.

If I were just following my instincts, I would have run long ago. I think I have a handle on what an addiction is, and this is NOT that. This is my conscience telling me I need to do what I need to do, and make my absolute best shot at making things work. After all, I said "in sickness and health, for richer or poorer..." and some other things, too. I do not break my word for mere emotional trauma. Besides, despite your judgment, she has good qualities - she's still the person I fell in love with and married, and that being case, I believe if we can stop the bad habits that have sabotaged our relationship and communication, I will again.

For my own sake, I must do absolutely everything in my power, including changing my behavior and issues, in an effort to make it work. If I have to go, I will only do so either because she absolutely insists, or I know I have done all it is possible to do, and I can do knowing that.

Sorry, but this is your problem. You have taken it all on you, while expecting no effort or change from her. You almost certainly have also made it known that you will stick it out regardless of how she acts. She knows that and subconscuously realizes that there is no need to change.

I think you need to start having respect for yourself. You say she is the same person you married but be honest, is she was like this when you were dating, how long would it have taken to break-up. She has changed and the quicker you see that the quicker you can start addressing this.

She may change back, but you absolutely need to know this one truth:

You can't make her change.

Read that over and over. You can change yourself, you can change your reactions, you can change your actions. But you can not change her. It has to be up to her. So focus on yourself and changing how you interact.

My suggestion is that you address the respect issue first. Sit her down, tell her that in the past, she has been very disrespectful in how she addresses you when she has an issue with you. You are happy to discuss the issue, but will not do so if she can not do so in a respectful way. The next time she is disrespectful (and it will happen), tell her you will talk to her when she is ready to discuss it like an adult, then leave for 30 minutes. The first time, just go into another room (though you may need to leave if she follows you). Increase the time you leave if she continues this the next time.

Consider keeping a pocket recorder for the start of those conversations, so that if she denies being disrespectful, you can play it back for her.