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There is a sense here, stronger or weaker depending on the details, that you were your Ws backup plan and not her first choice. While her Ex was still alive she still had hope of a reconciliation.

She may have married you for practical reasons as her Ex was not a possibility also for practical reasons.

I think this happens more than we think, during the early years of my marriage my W still longed for OM1 and the deep passion she could never feel for me. I never realized this until decades later.

Tamat
 

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She is grieving the loss of someone she once loved and may never see again.
My ex-husband died six months ago. We hadn't been together for twelve years but I am still grieving the loss of his friendship and the father of my children...the only other person on earth that loved them the way I do.
We were never going to get back together.
But I loved him a lot at one time and still valued his place in my and my family's life. His death has been hard.

All that being said, I understand your wife to some degree. I also understand your feelings.

Being depressed whilst grieving a significant loss seems....normal to me.

Don't know what advice to give you about your wife other than realize that death is such a final hurt....as you may already know yourself. Her ex is not a threat to you....he is gone from this life for good. This is a season that you can weather together and perhaps end up stronger/better than before.
This is sound advice. OP, Listen to this.

@VibrantWings, I am so sorry for your loss. And for your children's loss.

OP I am so sorry your wife and you are going through this.

If you handle this well, your wife and you can grow together and make your marriage stronger.

If you do not handle it well, it can weaken your bond with your wife.

As @VibrantWings said, this deceased man is no threat to you, if you handle this well, with kindness, sensitivity, love and compassion.
 

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I agree with most of this, except I do not think she left the notes haphazardly knowing he might find them. I think she is so distraught in her grief and so disoriented in romanticizing him that she mistakenly left the notes out, but not purposely.

Death is so final that it has a way of making a person only remember the good times and minimize the bad times, even rewrite history, as a means of healing.

Perhaps at one time, the deceased boyfriend was her "real love" and for whatever reason, she never conveyed that fully to him, so she is conveying it now (even though he is deceased and even though she may not currently still consider him her "true love")

Some women, including me, will journal an ongoing love letter to the man she loves, pouring her heart out to him.

I currently have one such ongoing love letter in the form of a journal to a man I love where I pour my heart out to him.

In this OP's particular case, the man/exboyfriend is no longer living, so perhaps it is therapeutic for her to tell him how she felt about him, especially if she never told him when he was living, or if they broke up with many things left unspoken, unsaid.

This may be her way of finding closure now.

If so, if it helps her find closure and helps her heal from the grief so she can go on with her life with her husband, the OP, is this such a bad thing?

I don't think it is. It may even be healthy.

OP, I would not take it personally. It isn't really about you. It is about your wife grieving. It does not mean she does not love you. She chose you to be her husband. She chose to spend her life with you. Not him.

If she seems cold, cut her a little slack now. Let her grieve. Help her feel safe, loved and accepted in her grief.

I believe your relationship and marriage will grow stronger if you do, if you show her compassion during this difficult time.

And I also believe if you are harsh or insensitive during this difficult time of grief she is experiencing, that cannot be undone.

Help her get through this. It will benefit your marriage, her and you greatly.
You know, I just don't get it. My GF wants me, and me only and I want her and her only.

I wonder how you would feel if you found your H pouring his hart out to his lost love.

Seems like some people want all the cake. If she has these feeling she does not love her husband, sorry it does not work like that.

What may would ever have such low self esteem as to take being second place to a dead man.

You know what the best thing about my GF is... Yeah she is beautiful, loving, caring, great in bed, and on and on... but you what the best thing is, she loves ME like no other woman in my life.

Anything less, would not be acceptable...
 

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You know, I just don't get it. My GF wants me, and me only and I want her and her only.

I wonder how you would feel if you found your H pouring his hart out to his lost love.

Seems like some people want all the cake. If she has these feeling she does not love her husband, sorry it does not work like that.

What may would ever have such low self esteem as to take being second place to a dead man.

You know what the best thing about my GF is... Yeah she is beautiful, loving, caring, great in bed, and on and on... but you what the best thing is, she loves ME like no other woman in my life.

Anything less, would not be acceptable...
Well...I do not know how I would feel until I am in those shoes.

But I THINK and I HOPE I would feel great compassion and empathy for my grieving, hurting husband, and I THINK and I HOPE I would value him and our marriage enough to help get us through the grief he would be experiencing.

My self esteem is healthy enough to not be threatened by a dead person, not be jealous of a dead person my spouse is grieving.
 

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You know, I just don't get it. My GF wants me, and me only and I want her and her only.

I wonder how you would feel if you found your H pouring his hart out to his lost love.

Seems like some people want all the cake. If she has these feeling she does not love her husband, sorry it does not work like that.

What may would ever have such low self esteem as to take being second place to a dead man.

You know what the best thing about my GF is... Yeah she is beautiful, loving, caring, great in bed, and on and on... but you what the best thing is, she loves ME like no other woman in my life.

Anything less, would not be acceptable...
I disagree with your statement that "If she has these feelings she does not love her husband" because when a woman (or man) is grieving the death of someone she (or he) once loved,

those emotions are all so jumbled up, overlapping, confused, chaotic, distorted, muted, amplified, numbed, crystallized, etc all at the same time.

A person who is grieving the death of someone they once loved is trying to stay balanced while feeling incredibly disoriented emotionally, psychologically, spiritually.

It is common to have what is known as "misplaced emotions" where what you feel for one person (perhaps her husband) is misplaced or "transferred" to another person (her exboyfriend),

The love she expressed toward her deceased ex boyfriend may very well be feelings for her husband that are being "transferred" to her ex boyfriend.

Transference of feelings is a very real thing in the realm of psychology, especially in times of grief.

Couple that with a strong dose of survivor's guilt and regret she likely feels that she could not save him.

His wife needs empathy at this time, and she needs her husband to be strong enough to realize her grief is not about him, it is not about their marriage and it is not about whether or not she loves her husband.

Once she has fully processed her grief, if he feels it needs to be addressed, he can address it then.

Now is NOT the time.

If he tries to address it now, it could do irreparable harm to the marriage.
 

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Anything less, would not be acceptable...
I hope for the sake of your relationship with your girlfriend and for her sake, that ya'll never experience the death of someone she once loved before you.

I typically agree with you on most things you post @BluesPower, but we are miles apart on this one. Maybe continents apart.
 

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She is grieving the loss of someone she once loved and may never see again.
My ex-husband died six months ago. We hadn't been together for twelve years but I am still grieving the loss of his friendship and the father of my children...the only other person on earth that loved them the way I do.
We were never going to get back together.
But I loved him a lot at one time and still valued his place in my and my family's life. His death has been hard.
Yes...
 

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@Thegoodman

Please post more.

Let us know what you think about what 'we' think!

I re-read your first and only post.
Her written words have very strong undertones and unwritten meaning.

I agree with most here who say to 'give her as much support as possible' while she works her way through this.


Do so in the short term.

........................................................................

She is hurt, she is grieving.

After reading what she wrote, now you are doing the same thing.

In short, this thread of yours shows the very fundamental differences in the way men and women think.
While both sexes value loyalty, generally, men seem to put a higher price tag on it. It is an ego thing.
 

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I hope for the sake of your relationship with your girlfriend and for her sake, that ya'll never experience the death of someone she once loved before you.

I typically agree with you on most things you post @BluesPower, but we are miles apart on this one. Maybe continents apart.
I respect your opinion, but I just disagree.

And if this type of thing happened to me, sorry, she would be gone. I never come in second place.

Sorry to be so hard, but it is the way that I feel. And my self worth is fully in tact, and always will be.

That is why I would not accept this situation...
 

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I respect your opinion, but I just disagree.

And if this type of thing happened to me, sorry, she would be gone. I never come in second place.

Sorry to be so hard, but it is the way that I feel. And my self worth is fully in tact, and always will be.

That is why I would not accept this situation...
Likewise, I respect your opinion as well and we can respectfully agree to disagree, as we just did.

No need to say sorry. Your opinion is just as valid as mine or anyone else's opinion.

Like everyone, you are entitled to your feelings and thoughts.

The OP was looking for different perspectives and opinions and we are all giving him exactly that-different perspectives and opinions.

He is free to pick and choose what most resonates with him.

That is what I love about TAM!
 

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After reading what she wrote, now you are doing the same thing.
YES...I was just about to post the same thing...you beat me to it @SunCMars.

Now the OP is grieving and of course, his ego is hurt after reading what she wrote.

OP also needs compassion and empathy, but I am not sure his wife is stable enough and strong enough to give it to him at this time due to her own grief.

In short, this thread of yours shows the very fundamental differences in the way men and women think.
While both sexes value loyalty, generally, men seem to put a higher price tag on it. It is an ego thing.
I agree that both sexes value loyalty, but I do not believe that men put a higher price tag on it or that men value loyalty more than women do.

I just think men and women define loyalty differently.
 

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A simple thread like this brings out un-simple emotions.
Un-simple solutions.


We want our loved ones to love others, to be emphatic with others.
To care about others.

But...........

Butts from a goat are swift, are unexpected, are in truth, effective.

They come from all angles.
None can be ignored.

All are from the heart.
 

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A friend gave me this advice,you can compete with any man except a dead one.
Yes...but no.
Or, not so much.

I would rather compete with a dead suitor than a live one.

The dead person is made up of dead memories.

Mine are still living.
They are still creating new memories for her.

My lips, my arms, my hands are real.
When I kiss her, hold her, touch her she will feel it.

When the dead man does this he does it from the past, does so from her memories.

A live and loving man can provide his woman living comfort, living passion, actual orgasms.
The dead man provides mind movies, none original, none recent.

I do concede that any suitor, living or dead is a threat to a relationship.

Just Sayin'



The Typist I-
 

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Love that melts quickly is hoar frost.
Not real ice, not crystallized.

Her love does not melt quickly.
It is real, hardly fleeting.

The Typist I-

.....................................................................................................................................................................

And when the dew that lay was gone up, behold, upon the face of the wilderness there lay a small round thing, as small as the hoar frost on the ground.
Job 6:16

But they that fear the hoarfrost, the snow shall fall upon them.
Job 38:29

From whose belly came forth the ice? And the hoar-frost of the heavens, Who hath begotten it?
Psalm 147:16

He giveth snow like wool: he scattereth the hoarfrost like ashes.
Psalm 147:16
On this, not a 'like' received??

Therefore, I feel I must further expound on this.

Her love for her EXBF was crystallized.
That tells me that her love for him is locked in Permafrost.

She did indeed love him.Still did, does, to date.

She wrote those words. Oh, my!

Did so, write those words after the fact. After she married you.

She was married to those thoughts, while married to you.

She was married to those thoughts, thoughts of him, a future with him. None of which materialized.

No.

Yet, she is lamenting, writing, showing her regret.

In truth, a truth now revealed, she was married to feelings and love for him at the same time she kissed your lips.
She willing took your nectar into her fold, did so, while she loved him from afar.

You in her fold, he in her mind. Oh, my!

This, for me, is too much to bear.
To bare her words, lay them naked on my bare body.

The words would make my mind shrink from her, my member to shrink from view.
Shrink away in anguish, in grief.

Oh, my!

But she now memorialized those thoughts, made them real....... made you plainly, plan B.
As others have said.

King Brian-
.......................................................................................

Disclosure:

These thoughts are not mine. Their basis derive from the archives of SunCMars.

SunCMars is gone. His battleship is mothballed. Do not doubt me when I bring back some of his words and feelings.
When I take his rusty, massive ship back out to sea.

When I uncap those guns, charge them, load them.....let those guns tear up the landscape.
As I have done here.

Men and women must be transparent.
They should give their love freely, openly.
They should have no deep secrets to the contrary.

Wishful thinking....I know.


KB-
 

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Love that melts quickly is hoar frost.
Not real ice, not crystallized.

Her love does not melt quickly.
It is real, hardly fleeting.

The Typist I-

.....................................................................................................................................................................

And when the dew that lay was gone up, behold, upon the face of the wilderness there lay a small round thing, as small as the hoar frost on the ground.
Job 6:16

But they that fear the hoarfrost, the snow shall fall upon them.
Job 38:29

From whose belly came forth the ice? And the hoar-frost of the heavens, Who hath begotten it?
Psalm 147:16

He giveth snow like wool: he scattereth the hoarfrost like ashes.
Psalm 147:16
On this, not a 'like' received??

Therefore, I feel I must further expound on this.

Her love for her EXBF was crystallized.
That tells me that her love for him is locked in Permafrost.

She did indeed love him.Still did, does, to date.

She wrote those words. Oh, my!

Did so, write those words after the fact. After she married you.

She was married to those thoughts, while married to you.

She was married to those thoughts, thoughts of him, a future with him. None of which materialized.

No.

Yet, she is lamenting, writing, showing her regret.

In truth, a truth now revealed, she was married to feelings and love for him at the same time she kissed your lips.
She willing took your nectar into her fold, did so, while she loved him from afar.

You in her fold, he in her mind. Oh, my!

This, for me, is too much to bear.
To bare her words, lay them naked on my bare body.

The words would make my mind shrink from her, my member to shrink from view.
Shrink away in anguish, in grief.

Oh, my!

But she now memorialized those thoughts, made them real....... made you plainly, plan B.
As others have said.

King Brian-
.......................................................................................

Disclosure:

These thoughts are not mine. Their basis derive from the archives of SunCMars.

SunCMars is gone. His battleship is mothballed. Do not doubt me when I bring back some of his words and feelings.
When I take his rusty, massive ship back out to sea.

When I uncap those guns, charge them, load them.....let those guns tear up the landscape.
As I have done here.

Men and women must be transparent.
They should give their love freely, openly.
They should have no deep secrets to the contrary.

Wishful thinking....I know.


KB-
So what you are saying in your eloquent prose is “The only good ex is a dead ex”.
Or am I wrong?
 

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Yes...but no.
Or, not so much.

I would rather compete with a dead suitor than a live one.

The dead person is made up of dead memories.

Mine are still living.
They are still creating new memories for her.

My lips, my arms, my hands are real.
When I kiss her, hold her, touch her she will feel it.

When the dead man does this he does it from the past, does so from her memories.

A live and loving man can provide his woman living comfort, living passion, actual orgasms.
The dead man provides mind movies, none original, none recent.

I do concede that any suitor, living or dead is a threat to a relationship.

Just Sayin'



The Typist I-
There is a lot of truth in how we allow the past to influence the present...

If the memories are of thoughts of good intentions, such as the way one learned a lesson in life, how we had a helping hand up, overcame a dark time and walked away lessons learned... these are helpful.

If the thoughts are of unattained desire, placing the present in a secondary state wishing for a different outcome than the past brought, then this will be damaging as the ripples spread and touch all around the dropped thoughts and words.

It would hurt and it is fair for our opening poster to feel it... to have the feelings rightfully reserved for him shared with such a past and what is a painful truth of the present. He knows for the moment he is not her focus... address it as such and be forthcoming that this is known.

It does change the relationship... how it changes it is really not in his control. What he can do is decide what is healthy for him as he balances his hurt with what she may have really wanted in life as what she has claimed to miss is still not known.

It is hard to be kind in disappointment... yet the kindest thing often does the least damage.

A rough limbo this kind of patience... the truth shines best in the open as you navigate where the relationship may go down dimly lit paths but at least you will be walking them in the present.
 

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It is hard to be kind in disappointment... yet the kindest thing often does the least damage.
EB-

Extremely well written and thought-out.
Thank you!
...................................................................

Yes, he needs to calmly, quietly, kindly....leave.


The thing is....
She never left. She never arrived.

She never left her EXBF.
She never arrived for her husband.

OP married a faux ghost and a real live shadow, the EXBF.
Now, he is married to a else-place ghost and a ghost made real.

OP now has many ghosts afloat, all we's, now us.

Him, ghosting us.

Shame!

Not nice, this, this hiding in pain site.


The Typist I-
 

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I think it is a huge mistake to minimize or discount the context in which she wrote these words. The context being, that she wrote them while in deep grief. Given that, we can not assume or presume that her husband is her Plan B, that she still loves the ex boyfriend or that she does not love her husband. To do so could be an epic mistake. Grief can really mess with a person's emotions and ability to think clearly.
 

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Yes, he needs to calmly, quietly, kindly....leave.


The thing is....
She never left. She never arrived.

She never left her EXBF.
She never arrived for her husband.

OP married a faux ghost and a real live shadow, the EXBF.
Now, he is married to a else-place ghost and a ghost made real.
I can see where this could be a possibility. It makes sense. BUT, and it is a huge BUT, we do not know that this is the case. It may be. Or it may not be the case.

It would be tragic if the husband "quietly, calmly, kindly left" and it turned out that those words she wrote did not accurately convey her true feelings toward the ex boyfriend and her husband.

Keep in mind the context in which she wrote those words.
 
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