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Why are you glossing over these things in her situation?
Because whenever porn is involved in a subject some people have to come out to defend all-things-porn related.

Also what SunnyT said in 2 posts previous to costa's:
"It doesn't matter if we agree with OP's view of porn or not. It's about her relationship with her H and what her next step is. "

I couldn't agree more.
 

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Because whenever porn is involved in a subject some people have to come out to defend all-things-porn related.
And is supposed to be doing that here? Don't let your prejudice project on people. There are some serious horrible things related to porn. None of which has came up yet.

Also what SunnyT said in 2 posts previous to costa's:
"It doesn't matter if we agree with OP's view of porn or not. It's about her relationship with her H and what her next step is. "

I couldn't agree more.
Absolutely, that's why my advice is divorce, without a doubt. It's pretty clear they are incompatible and there is the supreme danger that one of the kids see a boob somewhere. So better curtail all chances of that happening.
 

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meh, so does mills and boon, harlequin, twilight, magic mike, the titanic, 50 shades of grey and all disney movies.

I don't read that stuff, but i don't think any relationship has been damaged by expectations of being treated nicely and a bit of romance. However if it's so unrealistic for the avergae man to treat his wife with respect then maybe it is a fair comparison. :rofl: Most girls by the age of 13 understand there are no magic carpet rides.
I dont think being treated nicely, with respect and romance has ever damaged relationships either, nice to see we agree on something! :smthumbup: but when some people get their ideas of love and romance from things like harlequin romance novels, twilight movies and disney movies, they expect a distorted white knight / prince as an ideal man. which is just as disrepectful, and harmful as some people expecting jenna jameson as their ideal woman and all the good stuff that goes with it.

And you say that 'Most girls by the age of 13 understand there are no magic carpet rides.'; take a look in CWI and ill show you the WS who think that there are not only magic carpet rides, but that their SO is expected to provide the carpet, with bells attached, while the WS rides off into the sunset with the AP.

I bet they didnt learn this behavior from watching porn, porn would be a lot less harmful.


If you read much about porn or studied it you would see that most of it is degrading and often violent towards women, you may not recognise it as so, (as studies now show most porn viewers don't) because it has become a norm. That's pretty sad.
And I've seen studies that say otherwise. I've read about porn, watched it, and theres a HUGE variation of porn out there.

And some of it is degrading to either or both genders and I can only speak for me but I dont like that kind of stuff and I bet most people dont either but when you say its the norm that's not true and if you think i'm wrong, make a poll on it.


I believe she was honest from the start, he was the one lying about his habbits.

Seems like you have an agenda and that isn't going to help the OP.
I'll say that OP was honest to the H about what she wanted and didnt want. she wasnt honest about what she would do about it, which is what is hurting her now.

Yes I have an agenda. So do you, so does the OP.
The fact that this is the 6th time this has recurred says the OP has not the will or the stones to walk for her breached boundarys. In which case I suggest communication as a way to resolve, because the best chance the H has to stop it is if he's onboard with quitting porn and consciously desires to do so AND he has his wifes support.

Imagine if he could tell her that he felt tempted to look at porn without being afraid of her reaction? how much power would that give him over it?
 

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Holy cow. Reading some of the stuff in this thread i can get why some guys turn to porn...
:confused: really? advising a woman not to stay with a man who watches porn that is very disturbing and who hurts her durin g sex, yes what awful people.
Also, why was this posted in the "Men's Clubhouse"? Apparently 9/10 people who have a problem with other people watching porn are women. So what's the point of this being here?
Yes I read a study that even when porn is having a dramatic and devastating effect on men's lives, will they rarely admit it. Because it's a norm now and they think they have a right to use women in this way. if many women are saying it's an issue and harms their marriages maybe men should ask why? Unless of course you just don't care and you just want to be right.

Almost every guy who tried to give his view of porn was digitally stoned for speaking his mind. You're not really interested in seeing the other side. What you want is that someone tells you that this particular husband is a perv of the 10th degree and you are totally justified in judging him and his actions according to your moral standards. And you are.
Actually I see some very reasonable discussions about why porn is harmful, however I also see you doing to women what you just claimed the women in this thread are doing, digitally stoning them that is.
What's wrong with having moral standards? the problem today is our world is saturated by porn, the women in that porn are being used as purely sexual objects, and most men think it's their right to use this medium despite the fact it hurts their wives, because everybody else does.:rolleyes:

I fully advise you to divorce that husband and search for a new one that doesn't look at regular porn. These may include but are not limited, for your reference:

1- Men with no sex drive at all (possibly due to hormonal malfunction)
2- Pedophiles (cuz grown women do nothing for them)
3- Closet homosexuals
4- Sexually abused men
5- Some saints (not all)
There are plenty of men on this site that have posted that they don't or no longer view porn. Not only that you are assuming their is something wrong with a man who makes a decision not to view porn, and that he must be a a homosexual or pedophile. I find that very odd and an awful thing to ssume about other men.



On the news:[
The quote you provided was alarming and sad. I think you would be hard pressed these days finding any adult ho has never seen porn, it is every where. I think that's quite awful. I have seen plenty of studies that show it is in fact harmful, to the brain, it does change the way men view women etc.

By Mohamed Ghilan, UVic Neuroscience

It is now recognized in neuroscience that the brain is malleable. It changes with our experience and forms pathways and connections that correlate with what we watch, listen to, and learn. From the active engagement in a philosophical discussion in class to the learning of directions in the new city you moved into; even the seemingly passive sitting down to listen to music or watch television results in a constant formation of new connections in the brain that eventually make us who we are as individuals. A huge problem, albeit a silent one, that has reached epidemic proportions is the viewing of pornography, which affects men more so than it does women.

The great majority of articles on the problematic nature of this subject typically speak about it from a psychological and/or social perspective. This article, however, will shed light on the effects of viewing pornography from a neuroscience perspective.

The current model explaining how we learn and remember things at the brain level uses synaptic plasticity as the basis. Synaptic plasticity is the ability of the brain to change the strength in connections between the neurons (brain cells) in response to experience. This involves changing the amount and types of receptors expressed, as well as the amount of neurotransmitters (communication molecules) being released.

A vital neurotransmitter in the brain is dopamine. It has many important roles that it serves in functions such as voluntary movement, motivation, reward, punishment, and learning. Dopamine has been implicated in children with ADHD, cognitive decline due to aging, and depression. Most of the public’s knowledge about dopamine is about famous individuals with Parkinson’s disease such as Muhammad Ali and Michael J Fox, who have dopamine dysfunction pathology.

A vital role for dopamine is in pleasure experience, reward, and learning. Drugs such as cocaine target the dopaminergic system to release great amounts of dopamine which results in experiencing a “high,” often leading to addiction. A number of studies have implicated dopamine in either the anticipation or the direct experience of pleasure. Depending on the brain area, dopamine can be released either prior to or during the moments of heightened pleasure. When released, dopamine strengthens and reinforces the new connections that are being made in the brain while an activity is undertaken. This in turn acts to encourage the individual to repeat the activity again so they can feel that pleasure once more.

How is this relevant to pornography? As the images are displayed on the screen, an arousal takes place and the dopaminergic system is triggered just like it would be by drugs such as cocaine. The newly formed connections in the brain from watching pornographic images become greatly reinforced by the massive amounts of dopamine being released. Rather than going into short term memory, where these images can be forgotten after the screen is turned off, the dopamine reinforcement ensures they’re moved into the long-term memory stores where they can be stuck in replay mode in the person’s mind. The troublesome fact about this is that the more something is recalled, the more it solidifies it in the brain. Think back to your school days when you studied for an exam – you repeated the statements you needed to memorize over and over until they stuck.

Pornography is fantasy. Different scenes present with different women give the illusion of the watcher having a relationship with a new person every time. These “stars” subject themselves to different demeaning sexual practices by the men in the scenes. The acts in their totality are detestable to most mentally healthy people. However, the design of the act in a pornographic scene is to link one or two normally arousing and familiar elements with others that are not. This is how the viewer acquires new tastes in sexual practice. Electromagnetic waves are emitted from the screen with a fantasy that triggers a chemical reaction in the brain, releasing dopamine. The result is a feeling of a real, yet delusional, state of pleasure and satisfaction. The dopamine reinforces the new connections with newly acquired sexual tastes, and the next thing taking place is the man asking his wife to engage in a sexual fantasy that was downloaded into his subconscious.

The sequence of events in the brain is quite disturbingly simple. Synaptic plasticity works to form new connections as a result of watching pornography, and newly learned memories are stored. Since the experience is an arousing one, dopamine release results in very strong reinforcement of those new connections. Now that the scenes are in long-term memory, two consequences take place: 1) since the very same system stimulated by cocaine is being triggered by pornography, addiction is developed; and 2) the man will often attempt to create his own re-enactments with his wife, which leads to a great disappointment. The re-enactments do not live up to expectations because instead of many different women, it’s now only one. Worse yet, this only one woman doesn’t sound, act, or look the same as the ones downloaded into his mind. Although the first couple of re-enactments might be exciting, soon reality will strike and dopamine will no longer be released because pleasure is no longer derived.

Sadly, that’s not the end of it. After such a disappointment in the actual experience due to the unrealistic fantasy-based expectations, the brain not only refrains from releasing dopamine; it actually dips below baseline levels. It goes into a depression response that results in disappointment, dissatisfaction, and unhappiness in the marriage since the wife is “not up to what he expected”. Despite the efforts by many women to “spice things up” and even subject themselves to the demeaning acts that have been artificially downloaded into their husbands’ brains, the pornography-addicted husbands will only enjoy themselves for a very short while before losing interest. Meanwhile, the wife feels unattractive and emotionally abandoned despite her best efforts, not knowing that she couldn’t compete with the dopamine buzz offered by pornography.

What’s alarming about this information is that the brain acts as a whole entity; its plasticity is global. Change in one area affects other regions. It is a literal rewiring of overall neural connections as a result of pornography viewing. The extent of influence on other parts of the brain and cognition is an area of research requiring attention.

While neuroscience paints a very disturbing picture for those affected by watching pornography, it’s not all bad news. Although the same system for cocaine addiction is targeted by it, the substance is not the same. A cocaine addict must go through a regimented program to detoxify his system or otherwise he’ll be placing his life at risk. On the other hand, many men that have learned about the real stark effects of watching pornography are able to quit immediately without experiencing negative physiological consequences. It does take a lot of willpower and requires the person to busy themselves with other activities. Initially, tormenting replays of pornographic scenes watched over the past months or years will test the person’s drive and strength to give it up. Luckily, the same brain that went through a rewiring due to viewing pornography can also be rewired again. It is an extremely efficient organ that gets rid of unused connections. The longer a person can go without restimulating his pornographic connections, the more likely he makes it for his brain to discard them. Engaging in new experiences and occupying the brain with other PG-rated matters will be bound to force it to prune others away. It just needs time to do its work and it needs to be given the choice; it will always choose what the person activates more often.
How Watching Pornography Changes The Brain
 

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The problem also with studies done on the effcts of porn on men are that they are done incorrectly. they usually involve asking men if they have been negatively effected by porn, and if they believe it has changed how they view women and sex and of course, they say NO.

A good study would involve a scientific study of the reacations of men to different stimuli and their reactions to women and porn, how they described certain women after viewing porn, which porn aroused them most and if they even knew what they were watching was violent porn (funilly enough, many men do not even know that what they are watching is violent because its considered soft porn) and measuring changes in what they found arousing after watching certain porn and so on. Most studies are not done like this and so the results are 'studies' done by people, wishing to further their own agenda, you know the porn is harmless, because I said so lot. These are released to the media and reinforce the harmful belief that porn is a fine and dandy, when in fact scientists are finding it is very harmful.

So the OP is very right to be concerned about her husbands viewing habits.
 

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The problem with this discussion about porn is that there is way too much hysteria and hypocrisy.
Before porn became mainstream, during the late 1800's, the problem that " afflicted men"
was " self abuse or secret vice" also known as masturbation. Every possible ailment,from the common cold to chronic mental illness in men was blamed on masturbation.
So back then masturbation was evil ,and it was thought to have caused the same effects on men that some so called " studies " are claiming porn has on men today.

The funny thing is that whilst men who practised masturbation were labelled as perverts , sinners , feeble minded and weak,women were masturbating in secret. But it was considered [ by them & so clled doctors ] to have tremendous health benefits , including curing " feminine hysteria " or neurasthenia. The vibrator was invented in the late Victorian era and were a common fixture in ever " proper " woman's bedroom.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vibrator_(sex_toy)

Around the same time all sorts of " anti masturbation " devices were being patented and manufactured to prevent young men from indulging in " self abuse ."
http://www.ranker.com/list/top-10-most-brutal-anti-masturbation-devices/robert-wabash
Even nocturnal emissions or " wet dreams " were considered evil , sinful and harmful to the overall mental health of a " proper " young man.
My point is ,the double standard with respect to male and female sexuality has always existed and will continue as long as we remain intolerant and unwilling to separate fact from fiction.
 

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Actually I see some very reasonable discussions about why porn is harmful
very nice, now why cant we have a discussion as to whether porn is harmful 1st eh? cart before the horse and all that.

What's wrong with having moral standards?
Nothing is wrong with having moral standards, except theres this thing where one guy (or girl) says that their moral standard is better/shinier/more important/WontSendYouToHell and no one realizes that having a moral standard is for The Self, and not to bludgeon the brains of other people that dont agree with your beliefs.

i.e. I dont think people should have anal sex. So I dont. But I also dont force other people not to have anal sex, nor do i attempt to coerce or threaten them into not having anal sex. You will not go to hell if you have anal. you will not harm me or affect me in anyway if you have anal. I just dont like it - for me.

That being said you have the right to object and take appropriate action if someones actions affect you.


There are plenty of men on this site that have posted that they don't or no longer view porn. Not only that you are assuming their is something wrong with a man who makes a decision not to view porn, and that he must be a a homosexual or pedophile. I find that very odd and an awful thing to ssume about other men.
you make a lot of indirect assertions and misplaced contexts about what people are trying to say. costa never said that there was anything wrong with men that chose not to view porn. Thats what YOU are implying.


The quote you provided was alarming and sad. I think you would be hard pressed these days finding any adult ho has never seen porn, it is every where. I think that's quite awful. I have seen plenty of studies that show it is in fact harmful, to the brain, it does change the way men view women etc.

Pornography Changes The Brain[/url]
ICantSayThat:iagree:

This is psudoscience. Its an essay about dopamine, and how it works in the brain.
Then you fit in your target subject (i.e. porn) and speculate about its effects on the brain (all uncited )

and the worst thing IMO, is that the stuff might be true, but its potentially true about anything (like mills and boon, harlequin, twilight, disney movies etc)

Heck, you might be getting a dopamine rush from attacking porn, who knows??
 

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The problem also with studies done on the effcts of porn on men are that they are done incorrectly. they usually involve asking men if they have been negatively effected by porn, and if they believe it has changed how they view women and sex and of course, they say NO.

A good study would involve a scientific study of the reacations of men to different stimuli and their reactions to women and porn, how they described certain women after viewing porn, which porn aroused them most and if they even knew what they were watching was violent porn (funilly enough, many men do not even know that what they are watching is violent because its considered soft porn) and measuring changes in what they found arousing after watching certain porn and so on. Most studies are not done like this and so the results are 'studies' done by people, wishing to further their own agenda, you know the porn is harmless, because I said so lot. These are released to the media and reinforce the harmful belief that porn is a fine and dandy, when in fact scientists are finding it is very harmful.

So the OP is very right to be concerned about her husbands viewing habits.
I would agree with you about the study, except I would test men AND women. misandry much?

and its insulting of you to say that men dont know violence when we see it. we know what violence is, we are men after all.
 

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really? advising a woman not to stay with a man who watches porn that is very disturbing and who hurts her durin g sex, yes what awful people.
Those aren't the posts... Judgmental hypocritical snippets here and there are pretty much what makes many guys turn to porn. How is a guy supposed to share his fantasies with someone who will have him flailed alive for it?

Take the OP for example. She claims to have reached out to her husband and whatnot. After busting his balls over something as innocuous as a magazine. How much openness can she expect after that?

To turn the situation into words it was something like this:

"You're a dirty perv porn addict... Now lets talk about your innermost fantasies to increase our performance so that you don't look at porn no more..."

what is he going to do? Expose himself and get judgment day or clam up and continue to relieve himself in hiding?

Yes I read a study that even when porn is having a dramatic and devastating effect on men's lives
Poor me then. I'm completely devastated... And my male friends are too... And the overwhelming majority of young males in this world! Oh wait... Thanks for caring but you got it wrong.

We watched it and remain fully functional members of society. I actually pride myself of making my partner very happy sexually and otherwise.

Now this:

By Mohamed Ghilan, UVic Neuroscience

It is now recognized in neuroscience that the brain is malleable. It changes with our experience and forms pathways and connections that correlate with what we watch, listen to, and learn. From the active engagement in a philosophical discussion in class to the learning of directions in the new city you moved into; even the seemingly passive sitting down to listen to music or watch television results in a constant formation of new connections in the brain that eventually make us who we are as individuals. A huge problem, albeit a silent one, that has reached epidemic proportions is the viewing of pornography, which affects men more so than it does women.

The great majority of articles on the problematic nature of this subject typically speak about it from a psychological and/or social perspective. This article, however, will shed light on the effects of viewing pornography from a neuroscience perspective.

The current model explaining how we learn and remember things at the brain level uses synaptic plasticity as the basis. Synaptic plasticity is the ability of the brain to change the strength in connections between the neurons (brain cells) in response to experience. This involves changing the amount and types of receptors expressed, as well as the amount of neurotransmitters (communication molecules) being released.

A vital neurotransmitter in the brain is dopamine. It has many important roles that it serves in functions such as voluntary movement, motivation, reward, punishment, and learning. Dopamine has been implicated in children with ADHD, cognitive decline due to aging, and depression. Most of the public’s knowledge about dopamine is about famous individuals with Parkinson’s disease such as Muhammad Ali and Michael J Fox, who have dopamine dysfunction pathology.

A vital role for dopamine is in pleasure experience, reward, and learning. Drugs such as cocaine target the dopaminergic system to release great amounts of dopamine which results in experiencing a “high,” often leading to addiction. A number of studies have implicated dopamine in either the anticipation or the direct experience of pleasure. Depending on the brain area, dopamine can be released either prior to or during the moments of heightened pleasure. When released, dopamine strengthens and reinforces the new connections that are being made in the brain while an activity is undertaken. This in turn acts to encourage the individual to repeat the activity again so they can feel that pleasure once more.

How is this relevant to pornography? As the images are displayed on the screen, an arousal takes place and the dopaminergic system is triggered just like it would be by drugs such as cocaine. The newly formed connections in the brain from watching pornographic images become greatly reinforced by the massive amounts of dopamine being released. Rather than going into short term memory, where these images can be forgotten after the screen is turned off, the dopamine reinforcement ensures they’re moved into the long-term memory stores where they can be stuck in replay mode in the person’s mind. The troublesome fact about this is that the more something is recalled, the more it solidifies it in the brain. Think back to your school days when you studied for an exam – you repeated the statements you needed to memorize over and over until they stuck.

Pornography is fantasy. Different scenes present with different women give the illusion of the watcher having a relationship with a new person every time. These “stars” subject themselves to different demeaning sexual practices by the men in the scenes. The acts in their totality are detestable to most mentally healthy people. However, the design of the act in a pornographic scene is to link one or two normally arousing and familiar elements with others that are not. This is how the viewer acquires new tastes in sexual practice. Electromagnetic waves are emitted from the screen with a fantasy that triggers a chemical reaction in the brain, releasing dopamine. The result is a feeling of a real, yet delusional, state of pleasure and satisfaction. The dopamine reinforces the new connections with newly acquired sexual tastes, and the next thing taking place is the man asking his wife to engage in a sexual fantasy that was downloaded into his subconscious.

The sequence of events in the brain is quite disturbingly simple. Synaptic plasticity works to form new connections as a result of watching pornography, and newly learned memories are stored. Since the experience is an arousing one, dopamine release results in very strong reinforcement of those new connections. Now that the scenes are in long-term memory, two consequences take place: 1) since the very same system stimulated by cocaine is being triggered by pornography, addiction is developed; and 2) the man will often attempt to create his own re-enactments with his wife, which leads to a great disappointment. The re-enactments do not live up to expectations because instead of many different women, it’s now only one. Worse yet, this only one woman doesn’t sound, act, or look the same as the ones downloaded into his mind. Although the first couple of re-enactments might be exciting, soon reality will strike and dopamine will no longer be released because pleasure is no longer derived.

Sadly, that’s not the end of it. After such a disappointment in the actual experience due to the unrealistic fantasy-based expectations, the brain not only refrains from releasing dopamine; it actually dips below baseline levels. It goes into a depression response that results in disappointment, dissatisfaction, and unhappiness in the marriage since the wife is “not up to what he expected”. Despite the efforts by many women to “spice things up” and even subject themselves to the demeaning acts that have been artificially downloaded into their husbands’ brains, the pornography-addicted husbands will only enjoy themselves for a very short while before losing interest. Meanwhile, the wife feels unattractive and emotionally abandoned despite her best efforts, not knowing that she couldn’t compete with the dopamine buzz offered by pornography.

What’s alarming about this information is that the brain acts as a whole entity; its plasticity is global. Change in one area affects other regions. It is a literal rewiring of overall neural connections as a result of pornography viewing. The extent of influence on other parts of the brain and cognition is an area of research requiring attention.

While neuroscience paints a very disturbing picture for those affected by watching pornography, it’s not all bad news. Although the same system for cocaine addiction is targeted by it, the substance is not the same. A cocaine addict must go through a regimented program to detoxify his system or otherwise he’ll be placing his life at risk. On the other hand, many men that have learned about the real stark effects of watching pornography are able to quit immediately without experiencing negative physiological consequences. It does take a lot of willpower and requires the person to busy themselves with other activities. Initially, tormenting replays of pornographic scenes watched over the past months or years will test the person’s drive and strength to give it up. Luckily, the same brain that went through a rewiring due to viewing pornography can also be rewired again. It is an extremely efficient organ that gets rid of unused connections. The longer a person can go without restimulating his pornographic connections, the more likely he makes it for his brain to discard them. Engaging in new experiences and occupying the brain with other PG-rated matters will be bound to force it to prune others away. It just needs time to do its work and it needs to be given the choice; it will always choose what the person activates more often.


WoW, seriously Mohamed... Don't pull back from mixing real scientific knowledge with morality snippets and absolutely failing to explain why using porn is different from whatever masturbation aid you use. The dopamine reenforcement acts the same way whatever you use. So unless Mohamed is actually saying that all masturbatory action is harmful (and he probably is) i don't see him having a great point there.

Seriously, this guy has it all upside down. Porn doesn't convince people to be a certain way. People seek the porn they like. Feel free to inquire.

when in fact scientists are finding it is very harmful.
Scientists like this Mohamed we can do without. He has the conclusion before the research.

We have a huge test tube. The overwhelming majority of men engage in viewing porn of some sort. The overwhelming majority of men find no conflict with this and having a healthy sex life. We really need some women and the Mohameds of this world to tell us we are all damaged by it. Because you know better than we do.

There are plenty of men on this site that have posted that they don't or no longer view porn.
"Plenty" is actually a tiny percentage and i'm willing to say that even some of those are full of sh*t because their wife is looking over their shoulder. And then, even some women look at it. Are they addicts too?

I find that very odd and an awful thing to ssume about other men.
I would call it realistic. I am being 100% honest here. The number of straight guys without sexual deviancies (pedophilia and other weird fetishes) that don't look at regular porn is very small. It's not that they don't exist. But they are a fringe. Also, the reasons they point not to see it tend to be quite unique and special. Their choice, nothing against or in favor.

Personally i've apprehended porn being passed around by young boys in class. And this is not new. I remember as a boy, no internet or videos my school buddies always found a way. And shocking as it may be for mommies, it's harmless (except if they try to do it my class, then they see what harm is).
 

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I would agree with you about the study, except I would test men AND women. misandry much?

and its insulting of you to say that men dont know violence when we see it. we know what violence is, we are men after all.
Missandry? Lolz. Yes anyone who says they don't agree with porn consumption must hate men.

I call Straw Man.

I think it would be helpful if you tried to look at porn objectively, which can be very difficult when you are used to using it and justifying that use.

Most pornography contains some violence against women and in ever increasing amounts. Pornography makers admit this, and even talk about how they run out of ways to be ever more degrading and violent.
 

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Maybe we should get this thread back on tack. Maybe yet another thread on the pros and cons of porn could be started by those who want to discuss it.

This thread is about Rainy's marriage and porn in her marriage. These long disucssions are not helpful to her issues.

I'd like to see her come back here so we can give her some support/help. These long discussions are most likely going to keep her away.

Can we please get back on track?
 

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Maybe we should get this thread back on tack. Maybe yet another thread on the pros and cons of porn could be started by those who want to discuss it.

This thread is about Rainy's marriage and porn in her marriage. These long disucssions are not helpful to her issues.

I'd like to see her come back here so we can give her some support/help. These long discussions are most likely going to keep her away.

Can we please get back on track?
You're right. Personally i've given the advice i think reasonable. I'm refraining from further discussing the offshoot topic in this thread.
 

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Missandry? Lolz. Yes anyone who says they don't agree with porn consumption must hate men.

I call Straw Man.

I think it would be helpful if you tried to look at porn objectively, which can be very difficult when you are used to using it and justifying that use.

Most pornography contains some violence against women and in ever increasing amounts. Pornography makers admit this, and even talk about how they run out of ways to be ever more degrading and violent.


Whilst I understand your angst,I cannot agree with what you are saying wholesale.
I have read threads on this TAM website where WOMEN actually say that they love to be restrained and tied during sex. I have had sex with women who like rough sex.
There are women who love bondage , hot wax etc.
Even my wife sometimes tells me when she is in the mood for what I call the " pleasure / pain complex " where she derives pleasure from the pain she gets when I place her in certain sexual positions,and use just enough force.

Human sexuality is very complex.
The majority of porn absolutely cannot be considered as violent.In fact, violent porn is a niche category in porn itself.
Let me gve you a few examples.
1] Solo / Striptease
2] Masturbation Videos
3] Lingerie Porn
4] Nudist Porn
5] Legs / Feet
6] Boobs
7]Hairy
8] Pantyhose/Stocking/Heels
9] Pee
10]Voyeur
11]Role Play
12]Webcam / Interactive.

These are just a few examples of non violent porn and the list goes on endlessly. Pornographers try to meet ever single fetish, and they are having a hard time because human sexuality is complex.

If porn was so degrading and violent towards women,then why are pornographers always in business with fresh new faces?
Pornography like Alcohol & Gambling is a billion dollar business , and just like them ,if its abused will result in the exact same damage.
 

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Missandry? Lolz. Yes anyone who says they don't agree with porn consumption must hate men.

I call Straw Man.

I think it would be helpful if you tried to look at porn objectively, which can be very difficult when you are used to using it and justifying that use.

Most pornography contains some violence against women and in ever increasing amounts. Pornography makers admit this, and even talk about how they run out of ways to be ever more degrading and violent.
no. the misandry comes from not applying the same standard to men and women equally and it still stands.

I think it would be very helpful if you tried to look at porn objectively, which can be very difficult when you are used to labeling any men that look at it as addicts, regardless of what kind of porn they look at or with what frequency. If you dont look at porn how do you know that most of it is violent towards women? thats right, you dont. and the majority isnt.

try asking those that look at it?
 

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Maybe we should get this thread back on tack. Maybe yet another thread on the pros and cons of porn could be started by those who want to discuss it.

This thread is about Rainy's marriage and porn in her marriage. These long disucssions are not helpful to her issues.

I'd like to see her come back here so we can give her some support/help. These long discussions are most likely going to keep her away.

Can we please get back on track?
yeah i agree, my apologies OP
 

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If porn was so degrading and violent towards women,then why are pornographers always in business with fresh new faces?

Pornography like Alcohol & Gambling is a billion dollar business , and just like them ,if its abused will result in the exact same damage.
I have no issues with people (my self, my husband and others) viewing porn if it's use does not interfere with their relationships or otherwise hurt themselves, the people around them and the people acting in the porn. It's a personal choice.



The porn industry itself is very complex.Why are there always new faces?

One of my issues with porn, which I have not resolved in my mind as of yet is about the women and men who 'act' in porn.

Yes there are women and men who willingly do it because it's so lucrative. Generally they are people who feel they have no other choices to make that kind of money.

But even for these willing people, how many of them feel this way about themselves because they are victims of childhood sexual abuse and things that damaged them to the core? How many women and men who are mentally healthy poeple would do this? I'm not sure that many would.

Then there is the sex slavery or near-slavery industry that takes girls/young women and even young boys/men and basically forces them to participate. While I think the use of sex-slaves in American produced porn is low, from what I read it's very high in the foreign produced porn.

So, when someone watches porn, there is a good chance that they are paying money to support human slavery, sex-slavery. That makes the viewer no better than the people forcing the 'actors' to do things that they would not usually do.

I don't think that there is a rating system that tells the viewers if the 'actors' are being forced to do what they are doing. So the veiwers don't know what they are really participting in.

Also, there are plenty of people who view porn regularly that look down on the 'actors', especially the 'actresses'. They veiw them as ****s and other unkind things. IMO, anyone who views porn is on the same moral plane as those who act in it. It's the same as a john who considers himself morally superior to a prostitute.
 

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yeah i agree, my apologies OP
Opps...since the discussion continued I made another post above. I have sent the OP a PM suggesting that she start another thread so that she can have one without all this discussion. I'm hoping we have not scared her away.
 

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I have no issues with people (my self, my husband and others) viewing porn if it's use does not interfere with their relationships or otherwise hurt themselves, the people around them and the people acting in the porn. It's a personal choice.



The porn industry itself is very complex.Why are there always new faces?

One of my issues with porn, which I have not resolved in my mind as of yet is about the women and men who 'act' in porn.

Yes there are women and men who willingly do it because it's so lucrative. Generally they are people who feel they have no other choices to make that kind of money.

But even for these willing people, how many of them feel this way about themselves because they are victims of childhood sexual abuse and things that damaged them to the core? How many women and men who are mentally healthy poeple would do this? I'm not sure that many would.

Then there is the sex slavery or near-slavery industry that takes girls/young women and even young boys/men and basically forces them to participate. While I think the use of sex-slaves in American produced porn is low, from what I read it's very high in the foreign produced porn.

So, when someone watches porn, there is a good chance that they are paying money to support human slavery, sex-slavery. That makes the viewer no better than the people forcing the 'actors' to do things that they would not usually do.

I don't think that there is a rating system that tells the viewers if the 'actors' are being forced to do what they are doing. So the veiwers don't know what they are really participting in.

Also, there are plenty of people who view porn regularly that look down on the 'actors', especially the 'actresses'. They veiw them as ****s and other unkind things. IMO, anyone who views porn is on the same moral plane as those who act in it. It's the same as a john who considers himself morally superior to a prostitute.
I think thats a fair assessment, though viewers that look down on actors/actresses would probably look down on anyone that they felt were inferior to them.

a rating system would be an awesome idea.
 

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The porn industry itself is very complex.Why are there always new faces?

One of my issues with porn, which I have not resolved in my mind as of yet is about the women and men who 'act' in porn.

Yes there are women and men who willingly do it because it's so lucrative. Generally they are people who feel they have no other choices to make that kind of money.

But even for these willing people, how many of them feel this way about themselves because they are victims of childhood sexual abuse and things that damaged them to the core? How many women and men who are mentally healthy poeple would do this? I'm not sure that many would.

Well elegirl,
If it were that simple,then we wouldn't even behaving this discussion.
I have a cousin who years ago posed nude for a local softcore " skin " magazine. Of course everyone in our family expressed shock [ except me. I saw the pics and they were tastefully done]. She was young and very beautiful , but most of all her father was affluent and she was a university grad.
She wasn't looking for money,nor was she abused. She did it for the fun.
A lot of pornstars do drugs , have been abused as kids and have STD's. But so too a lot of rock musicians, rappers , and almost anybody in show business.
I work in the fashion industry.
At one time I used to vet girls for photo shoots as models for magazines and billboard ads etc.
I was amazed at how many of these these girls would offer themselves to me for sex , because they wanted to get their face on a billboard or magazine cover. More than 90%. I was married,I always refused and somehow a rumour was started that I was gay.

I left that aspect of the business.
But it gave me a better understanding of how complex humans are, and why porn is a billion dollar business.
 
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