[Paulination]

Thank you for all opinions

Thankful for what? It seems like you just rejected all of the advice given.

 

[rainydayismusic]

I appreciate all thoughts and posts. Why do I have to agree? This is a very sensitive and painful subject for me, and my original question was the 'where and how'. Not that it even matters. Call it a diversion from all the REAL probs, who cares. I am thinking and processing all info and addressing his problems and my own.
I keep going back to that stupid lie...I really despise him for that and now the lies continue. Coward and Jerk.
Sorry. Small rant

 

[Texas Lady]

Ok so let's be real here, what are the chances he will stop? Does he even want to stop? I doubt it. So you either accept it or move on. You have infrequent sex, no matter the reason, he needs to take care of his business. You disagree with the type of porn and that really isn't for you to decide. You are stuck on this "lie" but it isn't going to change. Time to move on and make a decision.

 

[Hopefull363]

Why is counseling out? This seems like something that can be worked on. If you just give in without working on it with him in a way that's conducive to both of you you'll just build up resentment. That will make things even worse.

Most men do lie about porn because they are embarrassed. Even knowing that I didn't have a problem with it as long as it wasn't on the home computers and it didn't take away from our sex life, it took my husband 14 years to admit it.

We've had sex everyday for the last 6 days with both of us having orgasms and I woke up to my husband doing something on his phone at 5 in the morning. I asked him what he was doing? For the first time in our 14 year marriage he said looking at porn. we just had sex before bed and at 5AM I was tired so I said ok and went back to sleep. I was happy he trusted me enough to tell the truth and thankful he let me sleep.

Please go to counseling. This can be worked out.

 

[Goldmember357]

Although it is difficult, you need to try and take three steps back.

1. Your husband appears to have a porn addiction and may need help.

2. Your husband is living a "secret life" and you feel justifiably betrayed.

3. Keep the morality (I assume you have a problem because you called the porn "vulgAr (SP)") out of this, at least for the time being.

Your speech and stay with me here:

"Honey, I found your porn stash again and we have a problem. I will not be married to a man who is sneaking around behind my back. If you think your porn habit is OK, then bring it out into the light of day. We need to be careful not to expose the children, but if you think masturbating to porn daily or more is a fine activity, then bring it out into the light of day." Then shut up.

If husband sheepishly smiles and says OK (meaning shining the light of day on his activities), then I don't think you have much of a right to say more. You could divorce him because you find it morally repugnant, but otherwise, there is not much to complain about. Maybe you join him.

More likely, he is embarrassed by this activity and will react with shame. I would not shame him more, just insist that he speak to therapist about his compulsion.

Send him here as well: Gary Wilson TedX Talk on Porn

By the way, how is your sex life?

:iagree:

 

[seeking sanity]

I just read this article today. Not sure if it's applicable, but this is the counter point:

Husbands, Wives, and Porn

I'm also with one of the posters, this seems very melodramatic and you come off as enjoying the moral high ground.

 

[AFEH]

I actually think you are very right to feel the way you do. With your H using porn since the age of 12 he will most certainly be addicted. Not only that, but it will also more than likely be the cause of him not being able to have a normal sex life with you, his wife. This latter is for example a massive problem with men in their twenties. They simply cannot get an erection with a “real” woman. As a man of my age this simply did not exist, it was not a problem so I enjoyed probably the healthiest sex life possible with my wife.

Porn use by those as young as twelve is also a very big problem and a problem that’s getting worse. To the extent that there are Governments considering putting the onus on the porn providers and enablers to prevent children using it as well as the parents. That is, Governments are considering legislating that ISPs block porn unless specifically asked for by an adult. There are cases now where gangs of boys as young as 12 and 13 raping little girls. This is a massive problem and I think you are doing your duty as a mother to shield your children from it all and as such you should be applauded, I certainly do. I feel for those children who don't have mothers such as you to protect them.

I also feel for you in that your husband isn’t shoulder to shoulder with you on this. It must be similar to having an alcoholic as a husband and worrying that your children will start drinking and become one as well.

On top of all that you have the betrayal of your husband's lies and deceits to deal with as well which is a whole big thing in and of itself. Deceit about the use of porn is one thing, lying about it is a massive betrayal.



But what can you do? Boundaries are perhaps the way ahead, read up on boundaries in marriage. But goodness knows what you do if you assert some, you probably already have, and he just ignores and breaks them.

He wont change unless he sees he has a problem. So maybe educate him. Find out all you can about how porn affects young children and sex in marriage, print it off and give it to him to read. Find out about support groups on the subject, it’s such a big problem and getting bigger I’m sure support groups are springing up to provide help for mothers and wives.

Other drivers for change are pain, fear of loss and fear of failure. If for example you demonstrate to him what it means to lose his family that may cause him pain enough to change his ways. Maybe tell him you want a six month separation to sort things out and you’ll review how you go forward in six months time. Let him live his life without constant access to you and the children and see if that causes him enough pain and fear of loss to initiate change.

 

[Texas Lady]

I actually think you are very right to feel the way you do. With your H using porn since the age of 12 he will most certainly be addicted. Not only that, but it will also more than likely be the cause of him not being able to have a normal sex life with you, his wife. This latter is for example a massive problem with men in their twenties. They simply cannot get an erection with a “real” woman. As a man of my age this simply did not exist, it was not a problem so I enjoyed probably the healthiest sex life possible with my wife.

Porn use by those as young as twelve is also a very big problem and a problem that’s getting worse. To the extent that there are Governments considering putting the onus on the porn providers and enablers to prevent children using it as well as the parents. That is, Governments are considering legislating that ISPs block porn unless specifically asked for by an adult. There are cases now where gangs of boys as young as 12 and 13 raping little girls. This is a massive problem and I think you are doing your duty as a mother to shield your children from it all and as such you should be applauded, I certainly do. I feel for those children who don't have mothers such as you to protect them.

I also feel for you in that your husband isn’t shoulder to shoulder with you on this. It must be similar to having an alcoholic as a husband and worrying that your children will start drinking and become one as well.

On top of all that you have the betrayal of your husband's lies and deceits to deal with as well which is a whole big thing in and of itself. Deceit about the use of porn is one thing, lying about it is a massive betrayal.



But what can you do? Boundaries are perhaps the way ahead, read up on boundaries in marriage. But goodness knows what you do if you assert some, you probably already have, and he just ignores and breaks them.

He wont change unless he sees he has a problem. So maybe educate him. Find out all you can about how porn affects young children and sex in marriage, print it off and give it to him to read. Find out about support groups on the subject, it’s such a big problem and getting bigger I’m sure support groups are springing up to provide help for mothers and wives.

Other drivers for change are pain, fear of loss and fear of failure. If for example you demonstrate to him what it means to lose his family that may cause him pain enough to change his ways. Maybe tell him you want a six month separation to sort things out and you’ll review how you go forward in six months time. Let him live his life without constant access to you and the children and see if that causes him enough pain and fear of loss to initiate change.

I find that response a bit extreme! Keeping the children away? Protecting them from what? She never said he had such a porn issue that it was interfering with their kids. They don't have sex a lot because of her not him. I think it would be a mistake separating the family like that over this. Go to counseling before you do anything that drastic. I get you are pissed at him but don't involve your kids in this. Yes, they shouldn't find any of the porn, just like they shouldn't walk in on you two having sex. I'm sure you make that a private thing so this should be the same.

 

[SoWhat]

Wild guess: if you divorce this man, the next man you date will look at porn too. And the one after that. And after that.

Not defending it in this case - as it may be affecting your sex life - just letting you know a little terrible secret about men in general. The vast, vast majority masturbate. The overwhelming majority of those that masturbate have a visual aid with them.


Good luck! I mean that sincerely.

 

[FormerNiceGuy]

He lied before marriage on something he knew I didn't like, (had kids with me too) AND the extremely unnatural content he seems to enjoy. I am also sorry to those that feel I've put up with this too long and given too many chances, my ONLY reason is for the children to continue living in an intact home (unfortunately with porn around) Otherwise, I would have ZERO problem leaving him to move on to some other chick that digs that sorta thing.

Rainy - I think you need to carefully consider what you hold to be "self-evident" truths.

Look at all of your righteous indignation.

Righteous indignation is province of martyrs.

Martyrs, by definition, die for their cause.

If you are prepared to divorce your husband (the figurative "death" here), then recognize that you are not a victim and can do so if you wish. Take action.

I understand that divorce is a massive decision. Remember, though, that you can make it from two mental states: one is the martyr and it will be excruciating because you will paint yourself as the "victim" who was misled into marriage and having children with a morally repulsive man. You appear to be on this road.

The other mental space would be a conclusion that your husband is broken and can't be fixed. That is a position of power and you don't need to make anybody else bad in order to act from there. You will still mourn, but you married a sick guy, it is tragic, and you need to move forward to take good care of yourself and exercise your role as a parent.

If you want to try to fix the marriage, then:

1. Recognize that, chicken or the egg, your husband's porn problem reflects the state of your marriage.....and before you start blaming him.....

2. You are 50% of the marriage.

3. You can't control your husband and should quit trying.

4. You need to fix your 50%.

What is your 50%?

I don't know, although you have not shown yourself to be very reasonable in this post. Is everything in your world so cut and dry?

When you get mad at people on a forum for their suggestions, after you have asked for help, your anger is a sign that you are being "triggered". You don't have to respond to people whose advice you consider idiotic - but if you get a surge of adrenaline when you read a response, you will grow from trying to understand why.

How do you do behind the wheel? Yell at other drivers or shrug off their recklessness? That is a trigger for many people.

I recognize this is very personal and there is a great deal at stake for you, but you will make poor decisions if you are acting from a triggered state.

5. If he doesn't step up, then you may have harder choices to make.

6. I respect the concern about porn and exposing your children, but think it is overblown. If you let your kids watch TV, then you are exposing them to a highly sexualized culture already. You might be surprised at what your 12 year old already knows.

This is not to imply that I am not vigilant to protect my children from graphic sexual images at similar ages. I am more concerned, however, about helping them build good self-esteem and teaching them about addictions with the hope that when they do get exposed, because that is a fact of life in modern society, they won't become addicted.

For what its worth, I don't think porn is good for people. It is not a moral issue for me. All men don't watch porn.

My sincere best advice is to go back to my speech and practice it 100 times in front of the mirror. It must be delivered sincerely and without anger or cynicism.

Once you have your "act" together, give the speech to your husband and report back the results.

 

[Caribbean Man]

Wild guess: if you divorce this man, the next man you date will look at porn too. And the one after that. And after that.

Not defending it in this case - as it may be affecting your sex life - just letting you know a little terrible secret about men in general. The vast, vast majority masturbate. The overwhelming majority of those that masturbate have a visual aid with them.


Good luck! I mean that sincerely.

:iagree:

My point exactly.
The porn is the symptom of a deeper problem with him. He's been at it since he was a boy. It is a mental crutch for him.

The problem with her is that she doesn't understand and is disgusted with his use of porn.
This can be worked out with a different approach.

 

[Chris Taylor]

I think most of us guys found our father's/brother's/cousin's porn stash at one time or another and survived the experience.

You can't ban porn and have infrequent sex. I suppose you can but where does that leave him? Looking for another sex partner other than you? Right now his sex partner is his right hand and he uses porn to help.

And whether it's straight porn, girl-on-girl, girls on machines, whatever... it helps him fill his sexual needs.

As I said before, the lies are a problem in the marriage but so isn't the rigidity of your stance. I'll say it... you FORCED him to lie about how he met his own sexual needs. If you draw the line here, I don't think the marriage has a chance.

 

[Drover]

By the way it has also been shown that withholding sex affects a man's sexual fantasies. Withholding sex tends to lead a man to angrier types of fantasies. I'm guessing that both the type of porn he looks at and the type of sex you get are at least partially driven by the way you treat him and the amount of frustration he feels.

But you know the most interesting thing about this whole thread is where you chose to post it? Did you think the Men's Clubhouse would rally to your point of view?

 

[rainydayismusic]

Thank you AFEH. I feel you understand the most. I consider all of your suggestions. Maybe the short term separation. And SoWhat is almost right about the next guy using porn, most do, but there are still a few men who don't. Although, at this time I'm not looking to replace my husband with another version.
FormerNiceGuy- You have given me some insight into the 'Victim' and 'Power' positions. Interesting. My 50% in this marriage is not forgotten either. I take responsibility for what I do, or neglect to do, and I am working on myself always because I want to do better and know that I can always improve. I read books and am constantly researching all things, I pray, and even see a counselor.
You are right about the 'triggers' too. No, I never yell at other driver's because that is not a trigger for me, but I do have emotional trigger's, and I know I don't have to react to posts from people who don't agree with me, so thank you for the reminder.
I know I cannot force anyone to change, but had hoped that my husband would at least TRY.
For those who were wondering, my husband and I did talk about all of this last nite, and he admitted it has been a 'Problem' (his word) from the beginning and all he ever had to teach him about sex was porn. That hurt me for him when he said that. Is this the future sex education for generations because parents don't care anymore and they all consider it normal just like my husbands mother did and still does.
He doesn't like this world he's in and wants to have a normal sex life with me, but can't see a way out of this because it is all too familiar and a deep part of his life. So for now he is torn between the two and probably needs to think about whether or not he will act and get help.
In the meantime, I'll be working on me

 

[AFEH]

I was a teenager in the 60s. Internet, what’s that then? There were top shelf magazines in the newsagents, but relative to what’s available these days they were seriously tame. But you know what? They still produced the same effect. There’s been a massive desensitising to the whole thing with the knock on effect of desensitising men. That’s why your husband is looking at seriously weird stuff by the sounds of it and why men have so many ED problems with their wives.

The addictive nature of porn is I believe as much the same as a drug addiction. The more the drug is used, the more desensitised the user becomes, the more of the drug they need to get a high and so it goes on and on.

It’s seriously good that your H has recognised his problem. Seriously good. Take a look at “How I Recovered from Porn-related Erectile Dysfunctionâ€� | Psychology Today and search “porn ed” for further articles.

I stopped smoking just about 18 months ago after 50 years of it. I went “cold turkey” more or less. It’s all about impulse control. Get the impulse for a cigarette, say no to the impulse and “this too soon shall pass”. I broke the back of the habit that way within about two months and these days I never even think of smoking. Every time he gets the impulse all he does is say no. Keep saying no and he breaks the habit.

 

[40isthenew20]

What's so bad about porn? The only time a spouse should be concerned is if the other's stash is kiddie or gay. If a husband has a few Hustler mags or a FFM DVD, big deal. He's just jerkin' it because he's horny and either:

A - doesn't want to bother you
B - get turned down for sex - again

Besides, magazines and DVDs are kind of obsolete now with all of the free porn sites online. The Internet has become a horny guy's dream come true.

 

[Grayson]

I was a teenager in the 60s. Internet, what’s that then? There were top shelf magazines in the newsagents, but relative to what’s available these days they were seriously tame. But you know what? They still produced the same effect. There’s been a massive desensitising to the whole thing with the knock on effect of desensitising men. That’s why your husband is looking at seriously weird stuff by the sounds of it and why men have so many ED problems with their wives.

The addictive nature of porn is I believe as much the same as a drug addiction. The more the drug is used, the more desensitised the user becomes, the more of the drug they need to get a high and so it goes on and on.

It’s seriously good that your H has recognised his problem. Seriously good. Take a look at “How I Recovered from Porn-related Erectile Dysfunctionâ€� | Psychology Today and search “porn ed” for further articles.

I stopped smoking just about 18 months ago after 50 years of it. I went “cold turkey” more or less. It’s all about impulse control. Get the impulse for a cigarette, say no to the impulse and “this too soon shall pass”. I broke the back of the habit that way within about two months and these days I never even think of smoking. Every time he gets the impulse all he does is say no. Keep saying no and he breaks the habit.

I agree with a great deal of your underlying idea, AFEH, but I would disagree that porn itself is addictive in nature. What someone who misuses porn becomes addicted to is the internal chemical "high" that they get from the satisfaction of looking at - and usually masturbating to - porn. This is distinct from substances such as drugs, including alcohol and nicotine, which introduce their own chemical agents into the user's system. While the addiction to these substances may initially spring from the same chemical "high," it is being assisted, facilitated and reinforced by an outside chemical source introduced, while porn, sex, gambling, etc "addictions" are entirely self-produced. While the internal chemical reaction is much the same, the trigger is psychological rather than pharmaceutical.

Ultimately, I believe that, like any other form of entertainment, there is no inherent "badness" in enjoying porn. When it starts negatively impacting one's life and/or relationships, though, then there's definitely a problem. But then, I say the same thing about the football fan who ignores family for hours on end every Sunday to obsessively watch grown millionaires pound one another into paste in a kids' game.
Posted via Mobile Device

 

[Texas Lady]

Ahh the joys of the religious induced shame associated with sex.

Amen to that lol

 

[rainydayismusic]

There is nothing shameful about sex between a husband and wife. (We are on a website talking about 'Marriage' right?) So this has nothing to do with religion. Would you say the same thing about people having sex with animals? Is it religious induced shame to not agree with that too? Or do you only agree with what is 'Socially Acceptable'?

 

[wolfloverb]

My best friend of 30 years is the same way. He has been married for 18 years and he talks constantly on how she won't satisfy him in new ways, so he resorts to seeing it on the computer instead of outside the marriage. So though wrong in a non hurting kind of way, yet needing something more on a sexual level, she should try to advance their intimate moments. Possibly turning a unknowing situation into a new avenue of marriage....Hmmmm