[Dino]

Sorry, but this background is a bit long....

H & I have been married for 14 yrs, both 34 yrs old and since we've been married, have lived in 4 different states in order to advance his career. We had children early in marriage but they are now pre-teens/teenagers. We don't argue often but for the past 9 years or so have a pretty big fight about once a year-18 months or so. A few of the biggest centered around A) his irritation about me talking to my friends about our relationship (mainly about things that I was upset about) which about 4 years ago I agreed NOT to discuss our relationship with any of our friends; and B) my LD, which at the time I contributed to exhaustion of having small children while working an average of 60 hrs/week in addition to a medical condition after having my youngest which made sex painful. With these big fights, I have felt like we got closer because I feel like it takes a BIG fight before he'll communicate with me, and that issues that he wants me to work on finally come out. But he has stated he feels more disconnected with each one of these big fights.

Finally, medical issue resolved, but although our frequency increased, it was still not enough and was the subject of a large argument about 5 yrs ago and again about 2.5 yrs ago. The last time, my husband began with purchasing 2 books, "The Proper Care & Feeding of Husbands" and "Secrets about Women every Man Should Know". He read the 1st book before giving to me, but despite his good intentions, never got around to reading the 2nd.

After I read the 1st book, I felt I understood him more, but after I read the 2nd, even though it was supposed to be his guide to understand me, I felt I FINALLY really understood his way of thinking, which I thought brought us closer together and more in sync in bed. My desire has steadily increased over the past 2 years to the point where I'd be happy with daily relations, if not 2-3 times per day.

Even so, over the past year he has mentioned twice now that basically "if I don't take care of him to his satisfaction, he's gone". The first time it irritated me, but thought he was joking until he repeated it a second time which brought me to point out how "not funny" that was. He responded telling me it was no joke, but he was dead serious (this was just this past June). During this same period of time, I was working on spicing things up, only to feel rejected on a continual basis either because he'd roll over & go to bed when I'd try to initiate things or because he was unable to perform; although, for the record, during this time if we started & he was unable, he ALWAYS made sure I was able to finish even if he wasn't. So for a while, even though I knew my desire was outpacing his, I didn't realize his was decreasing, but instead I thought he was less attracted to me or that I was not pleasing him. He's always been quiet, and despite my requests for any type of feedback on technique or fantasies, etc. I never EVER got any. It's always been me introducing new things, such as toys, positions, movies, buying lingerie, arranging overnight stays in hotels kid free, etc. I even bought Laura Corn's book "101 nights of Great Sex" last November. He did tear out one wonderful night compared to my dozen or so. I'd ask him about his desire & he'd assure me there was nothing wrong with me, & said it just wasn't his thing, which I tried to accept even though I'd feel inadequate over & over. Trying not to take things personally, I would research, read, & ask for advice on how to excite him with little to no luck, feeling more upset that I was "unable to please him" and that based on his comments that if he wasn't satisfied, he'd find what he needed elsewhere, I was feeling increasingly worthless and like a complete failure.

Anyway, last week, after about 3 weeks of only seeing/talking to him in passing due to conflicting schedules, I arranged a date night aimed with a fresh waxing (basically from head to toe), brand new bra & underwear (which was discovered by him while I was getting ready for our date because it was warm in the house so I didn't want to put my dress on before I was ready to walk out the door, which he seemed excited about initially), new lingerie for after dinner outfit , got all dressed up in a sexy dress/heels, complete with an erotic film, can of whipped cream and myself planned for dessert. We had a great dinner and were home within 2 hours. I changed into my after dinner wear, which he said he liked, introduced my movie, for which he got naked, then promptly rolled over & fell asleep. SERIOUSLY! He did manage to open his eyes at one point & told me if I was naked, he'd "slip it in" when he woke up (NO JOKE!!). So, I removed my new lingerie, slept bare & woke up at 2 am without him next to me. He was in the office ordering accessories for a truck he just bought & "didn't want to disturb me". Of course I got upset & he felt compelled to try to take care of me despite my anger/hurt/complete lack of desire for him at that second.

Well, the next day he had a Dr appointment to review some lab results after being diagnosed a few months earlier with hypertension/high triglycerides. So, wide awake I started doing some research on the internet and found some correlation between those symptoms & low T. Suddenly I felt a surge of relief that it may NOT be ME, but maybe his health...so right before his appointment I sent him a text asking him to inquire with his doc. Little did I realize what a blow to his ego that would be, honestly. He told me his doctor said that was in no way related & blew it off, then proceeded over the next few days to make sarcastic remarks about it, responding to odd things with "its probably because I have low T".

All of this background builds to this: So in my effort to make myself feel better, I broke our agreement (which if I believe he would not have held me to if he had read the other book because he'd understand a women's need to discuss issues with other women as a fundamental behavior of women rather than an attack on him personally), and discussed it with a friend whom just a few months prior had told me her husband discovered he had low T AFTER having an affair with her best friend. All I mentioned was that he had high triglycerides & hypertension, and she immediately said he should have his T tested, because that was how her H was diagnosed. So I proceeded to tell her about the date night failure 3 days prior. She consoled me and told me she felt it must be related to low T, which made me feel so much better about myself and that the so called rejection may NOT be about me. (forgot to mention earlier that this had got me feeling so bad about myself in the past few months that I started taking anti-depressants in July) This friend's H is friends with my H so I had asked her not to say anything to her H so there were no awkward feelings. However, she did and he brought up our date night to H over drinks last week. He didn't mention anything about the Low T, but I'm pretty sure H thought he knew where he was going with the conversation and now he's beyond angry with me and says he feels "Betrayed". He has made it clear, he wants me to break all ties with this couple (since we are new to this state, I/we have few close friends) but although I acknowledge my wrong-doing, I think that is completely unfair of him to request. He still won't acknowledge the possibility of Low T, but today told me for the first time that for the past year or "its like the check box for desire is now 'unchecked'". I do believe its health related and am willing to be patient and supportive while he gets it back on track, but am I wrong to be a little resentful about his feelings that I "betrayed" him and his demand for me to not continue a friendship because she shared this situation with her H?

I love my husband completely & have worked hard at building a successful marriage. I know he loves me too but cant help buy feeling hurt by his lack of desire and gain a little comfort thinking it may be biological/physiological rather than about me personally. I acknowledged I was wrong to talk about him to a friend and have apologized while also explaining my side (that of not talking trash about him, but seeking advice out of love for him & our marriage), but he refuses to see things from my perspective. Am I being too selfish?

 

[KathyBatesel]

In my opinion, no. I'd have done the same thing except I'd have kept the discussion with my friend private (and chosen a friend who would do the same.)

 

[Dino]

Thanks Kathy.
The reason I did talk to THIS friend was because
A) I DID think she would have kept it private (she only discussed with her H b/c he was pouting that we didn't hang with them that night, so she explained my plans. My disappointment with her is a different story...)
B) she's the only "close" friend I have in the state currently (only lived here about a year)
C) Most of all, because my suspicion, even though supposedly the doc dismissed it the day prior, was that he had low T like her husband so I thought she was a good one to get advise on the subject such as symptoms, how it was discovered, his reaction to the situation, etc.

I've tried to explain to H; he listened but feels no less betrayed (such a STRONG word! makes me literally sick!)

 

[Machiavelli]

Your husbands test peaked at about 25 and has been slowly dropping since, if he's in the bell curve. But, it's usually not a real problem until approaching age 50. It's not unusual for dumbass docs to tell guys with test under 200 that they're normal. Most docs are not into hormone replacement therapy for men so it's not that easy to find a cooperative doc. Did he refuse to even work up a T panel? It's possible, but it's also possible your H is full of sh!t and didn't even mention it. Highly likely in fact, based on your description of him.

Where's your H getting his satisfaction from if he can resist a woman with sexy lingerie and no bush? he probably had a porn site behind the truck parts website you saw him looking at. Or maybe he's chatting with his GF.

Does your H work out? Is he obese? Something is definitely wrong.

 

[Dino]

Your husbands test peaked at about 25 and has been slowly dropping since, if he's in the bell curve. But, it's usually not a real problem until approaching age 50. It's not unusual for dumbass docs to tell guys with test under 200 that they're normal. Most docs are not into hormone replacement therapy for men so it's not that easy to find a cooperative doc. Did he refuse to even work up a T panel? It's possible, but it's also possible your H is full of sh!t and didn't even mention it. Highly likely in fact, based on your description of him.

No T panel has been done, he said the doc asked a few ?s & then said it wasn't an issue. But, although I can't remember ever catching him in a lie to me, I wondered if he had even brought it up based on his reaction and (what I now see as) so many obvious symptoms that it seems crazy that the doc would dismiss it so quickly. :scratchhead:

Where's your H getting his satisfaction from if he can resist a woman with sexy lingerie and no bush? he probably had a porn site behind the truck parts website you saw him looking at. Or maybe he's chatting with his GF.

I've wondered the same thing, which has lead me to a lot of my insecurity. Porn on the computer has been an issue in the past because I didn't understand the way men thought about it, but instead felt like I personally was not good enough, hot enough, exciting enough, etc. if he was looking at porn. However, I've since learned otherwise through extensive research, and since then have welcomed it into the bedroom. However, I do wonder if I'm just incredibly naive to think that he would be NOT continue without my knowledge.

Does your H work out? Is he obese? Something is definitely wrong.

The fact that he works out a minimum of 1 hour a minimum of 4 days per week, but rarely less than 6 days adds to my theory that it is Low T, because he has about 10-15 lbs of belly fat that has only been growing & despite him upping the intensity/frequency of his workouts over the past 2+ yrs, it has just gotten larger rather than smaller. Previously, he'd lift weights now & then but would run 2 miles/day (20 min total) 3-4 times per week. He has absolutely no fat on the rest of his body other than his stomach and now spreading a little into his chest area.

He may be 10-15 lbs overweight (his dr tells him to lose 10 lbs, but I know he'd feel better less 15), but I am currently 20 lbs heavier than when we got married (currently a size 10, so not obese, but overweight by 20-30 lbs for my height/frame), & I worry I am just not attractive to him.

 

[Dino]

Your husbands test peaked at about 25 and has been slowly dropping since

Yes, I'd agree that it has been SLOWLY dropping since 25, but the past year is different, his desire has QUICKLY dropped to almost zero from maybe a starting point a year ago of 8-9 assuming at 25 he was at a 10 on a 1-10 desire scale, if you will.

 

[Machiavelli]

Force the T panel work up. That'll give you solid info one way or the other.

Working out more won't solve the belly fat issue. It's incorrect eating and possibly partly low Test.

Key log him. 2AM trips to the computer bother me.

 

[River1977]

Force the T panel work up. That'll give you solid info one way or the other.

Key log him. 2AM trips to the computer bother me.

I hope you know, Dino, that this is true. He did not slip out of bed after rejecting you to look for truck accessories. He is the one who has been betraying YOU, while he plays so utterly and incredibly wounded and offended.

Even so, over the past year he has mentioned twice now that basically "if I don't take care of him to his satisfaction, he's gone".

Don't force the T panel. Don't even bring up the subject any more. Most importantly, stop feeling sorry and inadequate and get some gumption about yourself. You place WAAAYYY too much value on him and none on yourself. When you find your self esteem and realize your own worth, you will see what is actually going on here, which is that he is pulling your strings like a puppet while you gladly bounce around and do flip flips to hang on to him. You have allowed that HE is so much more significant in the marriage than you are?

It's time to turn the tables on him, and tell him in his exact same words what he told you (what I quoted above from you). Make him be the one scrambling for a change. Install a keylogger on the computer to track his browsing. Show him how he has wronged you, so he stops making you feel that everything you do is wrong and nothing you do is ever enough. You are very, very, VERY likely to find out that he has been up to no good.

I am guessing from your post that you do not work and depend on him for your bread and butter. If I'm right, then I fear you will be too afraid to stand up to him, much less threaten to leave like he threatened you. This is the problem when women think being a housewife/SAHM is such a good idea. This is precisely the reason it is a terrible idea. You will always be the underdog and subject to his whims and his threats. You will always be afraid of angering him. You will always feel inclined to grant his wishes no matter how belittling. And, you will never find your self esteem and never know your own worth because he will keep you feeling inadequate, worthless, and worth less than him in what is supposed to be a partnership. I say these things because these are the things you tell us have already been happening. Nothing and no one can put a stop to this but you......if you are not too afraid to do it. You are being mistreated and don't recognize it because you're too scared since he's the one who pays the bills.

Even if I am wrong in thinking you don't work, I do realize you don't want your marriage to end. Still, you cannot be so afraid of losing him that you allow yourself to be ruled like this. Threaten him like he threatened you and mean it. Make him be the one who gets tested on his own after understanding he is the one who has failed YOU and not the other way around. Or, make him be the one who has to be apologetic and contrite for his betrayals. Let him know you think enough of yourself to walk away if he doesn't step up his game. Your self esteem and sense of worth has to stop relying on what he thinks of you and however he feels like treating you.

Otherwise, this will never stop. You will stay on this merry-go-round of his blame game and puppeteering. When you do as he demands, he will demand more and complain about your every move, or he will ignore your efforts, just like he's been doing.

 

[larry.gray]

I'm in part of this situation right now. The neglected by my wife for years but she wants it a lot now part. Fortunately not the low T part.

I will give you some insight into how your husband is feeling since it's a huge issue for me right now. He's feeling anger and resentment over the fact that you didn't care about his needs for years. He's learned coping strategies to NOT be turned on by you because it only led to more frustration. He's now got to unlearn that. He's thinking that his prime is gone, and so many opportunities to really love and connect with you are gone.

Seeing you suffer in the way he did helps at least some. It creates some amount of empathy in you and then he knows you feel what he did.

I know the anger and resentment need to just go. But if someone can tell me how, I'd love to hear it? I think letting time is part of the answer.

I do offer one bit of advice: don't ever turn him down. EVER.

My wife has a big up and down part of her cycle. In the middle of it she's crazy horny. Either side of her period eh, not so much. That's the way she was pre-kid too. Here I was doing it quite a bit more than my drive was push me to, FOR HER. I was making a conscious effort not to dwell on the past and not turn her down like she did to me so many times. And then after several days of nothing, she turns me down. Here she went and turned me down AGAIN, when I was trying not to do that to her. I couldn't get past the part that she wanted me to be ready when she wanted but she wouldn't do the same for me. It only brought back all of those emotions to the surface, with a fresh reminder that she wouldn't do for me what I was more than willing to do for her.

 

[larry.gray]

Don't force the T panel. Don't even bring up the subject any more. Most importantly, stop feeling sorry and inadequate and get some gumption about yourself. You place WAAAYYY too much value on him and none on yourself. When you find your self esteem and realize your own worth, you will see what is actually going on here, which is that he is pulling your strings like a puppet while you gladly bounce around and do flip flips to hang on to him. You have allowed that HE is so much more significant in the marriage than you are?

Why should she do flip flops and let him bounce her around like a pupet string?

Because it will help him heal.

 

[Jellybeans]

Your husbands test peaked at about 25 and has been slowly dropping

What do you mean by his "test" peaked?



********************** | ***************************************** | ***************************************

 

[Unsure in Seattle]

Testosterone levels.

 

[WorkingOnMe]

I'm in part of this situation right now. The neglected by my wife for years but she wants it a lot now part. Fortunately not the low T part.

I will give you some insight into how your husband is feeling since it's a huge issue for me right now. He's feeling anger and resentment over the fact that you didn't care about his needs for years. He's learned coping strategies to NOT be turned on by you because it only led to more frustration. He's now got to unlearn that. He's thinking that his prime is gone, and so many opportunities to really love and connect with you are gone.

Seeing you suffer in the way he did helps at least some. It creates some amount of empathy in you and then he knows you feel what he did.

I know the anger and resentment need to just go. But if someone can tell me how, I'd love to hear it? I think letting time is part of the answer.

I do offer one bit of advice: don't ever turn him down. EVER.

My wife has a big up and down part of her cycle. In the middle of it she's crazy horny. Either side of her period eh, not so much. That's the way she was pre-kid too. Here I was doing it quite a bit more than my drive was push me to, FOR HER. I was making a conscious effort not to dwell on the past and not turn her down like she did to me so many times. And then after several days of nothing, she turns me down. Here she went and turned me down AGAIN, when I was trying not to do that to her. I couldn't get past the part that she wanted me to be ready when she wanted but she wouldn't do the same for me. It only brought back all of those emotions to the surface, with a fresh reminder that she wouldn't do for me what I was more than willing to do for her.

Wow, you could be my alter ego.

 

[Toffer]

i hope you know, dino, that this is true. He did not slip out of bed after rejecting you to look for truck accessories. he is the one who has been betraying you, while he plays so utterly and incredibly wounded and offended.

I know that I would be offended if my wife discussed our issues with her female friends and she would feel the same if I did it with my male friends. Again, you seem to have a deep seated issue with men.

Don't force the t panel. Don't even bring up the subject any more. Most importantly, stop feeling sorry and inadequate and get some gumption about yourself. You place waaayyy too much value on him and none on yourself. When you find your self esteem and realize your own worth, you will see what is actually going on here, which is that he is pulling your strings like a puppet while you gladly bounce around and do flip flips to hang on to him. You have allowed that he is so much more significant in the marriage than you are?

Agree to a point. It is definitely HIS problem for whatever reason. His refusal to do everything to diagnose/fix it is all on him. However, You are again reading things that are not there since we don't have his side of the story

It's time to turn the tables on him, and tell him in his exact same words what he told you (what i quoted above from you). Make him be the one scrambling for a change. Install a keylogger on the computer to track his browsing. Show him how he has wronged you, so he stops making you feel that everything you do is wrong and nothing you do is ever enough. You are very, very, very likely to find out that he has been up to no good.

Of course, because he's a MAN right? I'm not saying this isn't a possibility but you are again refusing to see that there is also another side to the story

I am guessing (and there you go!) from your post that you do not work and depend on him for your bread and butter. If i'm right, then i fear you will be too afraid to stand up to him, much less threaten to leave like he threatened you. This is the problem when women think being a housewife/sahm is such a good idea. This is precisely the reason it is a terrible idea. You will always be the underdog and subject to his whims and his threats. You will always be afraid of angering him. You will always feel inclined to grant his wishes no matter how belittling. And, you will never find your self esteem and never know your own worth because he will keep you feeling inadequate, worthless, and worth less than him in what is supposed to be a partnership. I say these things because these are the things you tell us have already been happening. Nothing and no one can put a stop to this but you......if you are not too afraid to do it. You are being mistreated and don't recognize it because you're too scared since he's the one who pays the bills.

So it was his idea that she get all dressed up and sexy to intiate? No, she has admittedly stated that her drive has increased and his has lowered. Maybe (as others have interjected) he's doing it as a form of payback. Childish? Oh Hel1 yes and I know I would never do it but if you've been on the HD side with a LD spouse, it becomes attractive after a while.

Even if i am wrong in thinking you don't work, i do realize you don't want your marriage to end. Still, you cannot be so afraid of losing him that you allow yourself to be ruled like this. Threaten him like he threatened you and mean it. Make him be the one who gets tested on his own after understanding he is the one who has failed you and not the other way around. Or, make him be the one who has to be apologetic and contrite for his betrayals. Let him know you think enough of yourself to walk away if he doesn't step up his game. Your self esteem and sense of worth has to stop relying on what he thinks of you and however he feels like treating you.

Great advice! Meet threat with threat! Again, he is WRONG for his approach so why would you advise the OP to use the same approach?


Otherwise, this will never stop. You will stay on this merry-go-round of his blame game and puppeteering. When you do as he demands, he will demand more and complain about your every move, or he will ignore your efforts, just like he's been doing.

 

[Viseral]

Any chance it could be performance anxiety? If he failed to perform in the past he could be experiencing anxiety that he may not be able to perform now. Otherwise known as psyching himself out and too embarrassed to confront his own inability to perform. It can be quite a blow to a guys ego and is a downward psychological spiral. Just a thought?

 

[bkaydezz]

No you are not being selfish in wanting to make sure your husband gets his T checked out.

Everyone needs someone to talk to. If they are your friends, keep certain discussions to a minimum. She however should not have said anything after you asked her not too. That is not a good trait in a "friend".

I really think that he is overeacting about all of this.
He should be more concerned about how he has left you to feel here recently even if it is a health related issue.

Do he give you any other intimacy besides sex?

At least you are not going off in the deep end saying that he doesnt love you and is not attracted to you but instead are taking it in that you feel its health. Which is comendable. I think thats a first step to being a good partner acknowledging those needs t make sure the other needs can happen.

Maybe the issue is jsut sensitive for him and feels embarrased that you mentioned it, not so much that you actually told them.

Have the depressants started to help you at all can you tell a difference?

 

[Dino]

No you are not being selfish in wanting to make sure your husband gets his T checked out.

Everyone needs someone to talk to. If they are your friends, keep certain discussions to a minimum. She however should not have said anything after you asked her not too. That is not a good trait in a "friend".

I really think that he is overeacting about all of this.
He should be more concerned about how he has left you to feel here recently even if it is a health related issue.

Do he give you any other intimacy besides sex?

At least you are not going off in the deep end saying that he doesnt love you and is not attracted to you but instead are taking it in that you feel its health. Which is comendable. I think thats a first step to being a good partner acknowledging those needs t make sure the other needs can happen.

Maybe the issue is jsut sensitive for him and feels embarrased that you mentioned it, not so much that you actually told them.

Have the depressants started to help you at all can you tell a difference?

I have gotten him to talk about all of this (reluctantly) a bit more since this happened, and I do think that although he still says he's upset that I shared at all, I think he is embarrassed more than anything and can't believe my friends spouse had the nerve to want to talk about it, but honestly I think even he was trying to help because he was recently in the same position.

I was feeling very self conscious and feeling that the problem HAD to be with me (hence the AD meds) until doing some research on his other medical issues & medications they have him on and found a strong correlation. That's when I felt so relieved that it may NOT be me and wanted to ask my friend what her husband's symptoms had been (beyond the obvious).

He really is a wonderful guy, does more for me than I could ever ask and does show me affection in the ways I've asked for it through the years, so it was all confusing to me especially because he was not wanting sex like he had conveyed to me as "non-negotiable" and making statements that made me feel the burden of pleasing him rested solely on my shoulders.

Finally getting him to see my point of view, and him reluctantly talking about it, he's told me he knows his drive slowly went down over the years, but then all of the sudden, it was like a switch flipped & the desire was non-existent. I think he feels bad that I've been hurt by it, but I wish he could see that a lot of hurt could have been avoided by more open/honest communication.

I think he's going to try pushing his doctor to do a T-panel work up, but I'm not going to push it much more. I think if he can continue to communicate with me and let me know what's going on in his head, I'll back off and let him get back to normal and try not to take it personally.

 

[Dino]

Toffer, you are correct in pointing out that there is only one side of the story here. Which is why I came to this forum in the first place, to get opinions from others who may be able to fill in the gaps from the other side of the story, and I appreciate all the wonderful insight you and others have brought to the table. A lot of it has helped me in my efforts to open up the dialog with him on the subject again and address issues like "payback" and such.

I'm sure if not now, but in the future he will get at least a little satisfaction in the payback aspect, even if it wasn't something he set out to do, lol. He used to joke back then saying "just wait, some day you'll hit your peak, & I may not be in the mood" and man, has karma ever come back around to slap me in the butt

I'm definitely not being "mistreated" like river suggests, I just love my man and want the both of us to be happy & as drama free as possible! So thanks again to everyone who provided input.

 

[caladan]

2 miles a day is actually not a serious run. What do you guys weigh if I may ask? Unless you eat really healthy, it's possible to gain weight on 2 miles a day (and that's certainly not enough on it's own to cut down any weight)