[Plumbolt]

My W and I have only been married for about 6 months but have been together for about 3 years. Our problems have been going on right from the beginning. At the start of our relationship she said, "All I want is honesty and trust." And I said I could do that. Well then I moved 8 hours away to be with her and start our relationship together. But I wasn't honest with her from the beginning.

I failed to mention to her my $15,000 dollars of debt and omitting that was seen as lying, when she finally found out after being together for a couple of months. Since the beginning though I have found countless ways to lie and not tell her everything that is going on in my life when it comes to money or some minor thing about a shirt I don't like.

We have gotten in numerous fights about me lying to her and it seems to be the same cycle of fight each time. She is mad and angry that I lied or kept something from her. Then I say I realize the problem and that I am working to fix it. We hardly talk for some days. Then things resolve with me saying the same things over again, "It'll change, I'll work on it, I got this." And everytime she puts the same blind faith in me.

So this has been going on for the last 3 years in some shape or form. About a month ago when it occurred again she finally said, "The next time you lie to me it's over and I'm divorcing you." And I say it'll change, I'll work on it. But then nothing changes and I don't learn. About a year ago I went to a counselor but I didn't take it serious and I feel I was not able to be honest and get to the root of the problem.

A couple of days ago, I lied to her again and it just rolled off my tongue without thinking about it. And it wasn't until the next morning when I sat her down and said, "I'm sorry but I lied to you." That was it. I hurt her for the last time she is ready to leave me and divorce me. I recognize I have a problem with lying and it happening so easily. And I know it's wrong and that to be a good partner for her I need to tell the truth and not lie. But how do I change? Can I change? This happened 2 days ago and yesterday I made an appointment to see a marriage counselor even though it will only be myself attending. I just don't know what to do or how I can help the problem.

I want to be a great partner to her. I know what she wants: 1. honesty, 2. trust, 3. conversations, 4. love and care, 5. sharing of thoughts and ideas. But how can I get someone to know that I am serious about this and want to fix when my spouse sees me as a lying, untrustworthy, snake, who is selfish and only cares about himself. She has said if I truely cared about her I would have done something about it a year ago, 2 years ago, when the problems weren't so dire. She feels that by me saying now that I want to change and work on it is showing her that I never truely loved or cared about her because if I did I wouldn't have hurt her repeatedly.

I feel like her mind is made up, but I cannot honor that. I know that in itself is selfish behavior and it shouldn't come to the act of divorce for me to finally fight for it, but I do care for her and I do love her and I do want to make a change in myself and fix my habitual lying. I just don't know where to go from here.

 

[KathyBatesel]

Offer to let her fine you. Make it stiff enough that you'll dread paying it. It took my ex two times of having to pay a fine of $20 for the lie and the problem was solved.

 

[SlowlyGettingWiser]

Not gonna sugar-coat it: you fvcked up BIG TIME...and YOU KNOW IT.

1.) She is 100% right when she says that if you truly cared, you would have turned this problem around YEARS ago. You didn't want to. You were MORE COMFORTABLE being your easy-going LYING self, than taking yourself in-hand, manning up, and fixing YOUR problem. She's angry, and I don't blame her. She's FED UP, and I don't blame her.

2.) You need to acknowledge that IT MAY, in fact, BE TOO LATE to save your marriage! You can kick and scream and fight against it ALL YOU WANT, but YOU ALONE cannot turn this marriage around. You've driven her to the point of divorce and NOW you're sorry! Sometimes 'I'm sorry' isn't enough. Sometimes 'I'm REALLY GONNA TRY THIS TIME' isn't enough. Sometimes 'I really MEAN IT.' is too late. Is it too late for THIS marriage? Only time will tell.

3.) Never mind Marriage Counseling! In my HUMBLE opinion, *THIS* isn't a 'marriage' problem; this is a "PLUMBOLT" problem. And PLUMBOLT, himself, needs to FIX IT. By HIMSELF. With INDIVIDUALIZED COUNSELING to get to the CORE ROOT of *WHY* you are so afraid of admitting your faults/weaknesses to your partner; why you'd rather LIE than say..."this is me, I'm not perfect, but I trust YOU and TOGETHER WE can achieve a great life!"

4.) Tell your wife that YOU UNDERSTAND that you have pushed her beyond her limits. Tell your wife that YOU UNDERSTAND that she gave you CLEAR BOUNDARIES and that you overstepped them, again. Tell your wife that you TAKE FULL RESPONSIBILITY for disappointing her again; that you're disappointed in YOURSELF and that you are FIXING THE PROBLEM with yourself. Show her the counselor you have lined up for IC (when you interview one over the phone, explain that you LIE COMPULSIVELY). Tell her that you are determined to FIX this SERIOUS CHARACTER FLAW in yourself. Tell her that you understand that she doesn't believe you, and that you understand she SHOULDN'T believe your words. Tell her that you will SHOW HER you understand, you are taking it seriously, you are addressing the problem, and that you take FULL RESPONSIBILITY for ALL THE LYING you've done. You will SHOW HER by FAITHFULLY showing up for counseling EVERY WEEK. You will SHOW HER by DOING ALL THE WORK the counselor assigns with an open mind AND a willing spirit. You will SHOW HER by doing this for a minimum of 6 months UNLESS YOUR COUNSELOR tells you earlier that YOU have a handle on your problem. Tell her she SHOULD NOT believe your words, but she should believe your actions!

5.) If your wife wants to separate/divorce, then ACKNOWLEDGE that you understand her position (and God help you, I hope you REALLY DO understand her position...your initial post indicates you do). Tell her that REGARDLESS of whether you two divorce, you are going to fix this problem of yours because YOU want to be a better man, SHE DESERVES a better man, and both of you will have a better future (alone or together) when YOU become a better person who doesn't LIE and take the easy way out!

The reality is that a divorce will take a minimum of 6 months no matter WHERE you live! During that time, you will have the opportunity to show your wife REPEATEDLY the man YOU ARE BECOMING. Man-up NOW while you still have a chance.

• Are you physically in shape? If not, GET BUSY. If you can't afford a gym, buy a bike or go running. No excuses, get healthy!
• Do you do YOUR SHARE around the house? If you don't know *how* to run the washer/dryer, how to clean, etc. then ASK YOUR MOM or FIGURE IT OUT! IF you haven't been upholding your 1/2 of the tasks and you both work outside the home, then YOU'VE BEEN LAZY and a non-contributing partner!
• Do you have an addiction to tv/videos/games/whatever? Get your nose out of whatever and LIVE YOUR LIFE!
• Did your wife have other LEGITIMATE complaints about you? Then get busy and FIX YOURSELF.

You have a golden opportunity (and all the incentive in the world) to turn your life around and BE THE MAN YOU'VE ALWAYS WANTED TO BE! Be a man YOU admire. Be a man SHE can admire. Get off your ass, quit being comfortable, shake up your life and DO WHATEVER YOU NEED TO DO to get your life in 'success' mode!

Good luck! Hang tough! Keep coming and posting on THIS EXACT thread (it makes it easier for people to find you, understand your backstory, and keep the chronology/progress of your story straight).

I'd LOVE to see you make one HELLUVA SUCCESS out of yourself (not monetarily...emotionally!) and this marriage.

GO DO IT. Do something CONSTRUCTIVE EVERY DAY (whether it's physical exercising, working your therapist's exercises, learning a new skill, etc.)

GO! Go! Go! Do! Do! Do!

 

[SlowlyGettingWiser]

I'm going to respectfully disagree with Kathy.

'Fining' you is making HER responsible for keeping you in line! She's not your Mommy, she's your wife, your partner. You owe her the RESPECT of being honest with her.

 

[Thumper]

Are you still hiding other things that you havent had to lie about yet? My suggestion is to sit down and make a list of everything you have a problem with (things you need to lie about), areas that you have a problems telling her about. Take your time making the list, dont hold anything back-give as many details as possible-be honest making the list. Then give it to her, that way you cant lie your way out of it in the future. You are gonna have to face those demons like an adult. If you dont get that pattern fixed, whether she stays with you or not at this point, its an issue that will haunt you in every future relationship as well. Wonder what it would feel like to be alone the rest of your life? your on your way. Good luck

 

[Plumbolt]

Thank you all for your suggestions and ideas. SlowlyGettingWiser you are right about so many things and I appreciate you posting on this. I want to fight for myself and becoming a better person. One who doesn't lie to my spouse and I want to fight for our relationship. It feels like it is too late, but I am going to talk with a professional and see if I can stop myself from lying. My W tells me if I don't want to lie to her than I should just not do it. And I thought it too, "just don't lie to her." But I haven't changed and things haven't gotten better for us. And know she says no point in continuing to be with me. We are suppose to go on a 2 day trip next Thursday and now I don't think that will happen. How can I tell her that I think we should still do our plans when she is unwilling to have anything to do with me?

 

[KathyBatesel]

I'm going to respectfully disagree with Kathy.

'Fining' you is making HER responsible for keeping you in line! She's not your Mommy, she's your wife, your partner. You owe her the RESPECT of being honest with her.

In some ways, I agree, but here's why I think this is not a simple case of making her responsible for his actions:

1. Right now, she has been victimized by his lies. By paying her a fine, it can help her salvage some dignity and get SOME benefit for waiting for the promises he's making. If it doesn't work, she's going to leave, but if he has to pay a fine or do something he doesn't want to do, then it will give him even more reason to risk telling the truth.

2. Because he has such trouble with this on his own, it's a way of enlisting her help temporarily. He'll either find it to be an effective way of preventing lies (in which case, she no longer has to be responsible for anything) or she'll gain a few bucks on her way out the door.

I was married to someone who lied about things big and small. It was becoming a source of resentment and I wondered if I should leave over it. After all, if he lied about dumb stuff like whether he saw a snake by the pond or not, why would he tell the truth if it really mattered?

I told him I would charge him $20 every time I caught him in a lie or had enough reason to suspect a lie, and that if he didn't pay, I'd charge it to his credit card. He paid twice, and from then on, he was pretty danged truthful, even when it came to admitting that he cheated while deployed.

 

[SaltInWound]

Here is the problem you are going to encounter even if you fix yourself and if your wife decides she does not want to divorce you....

You have lied for years about so many things that no matter what you say, she is not going to believe you. My husband lied about even stupid stuff that was useless to lie about, like when he asked me for an e-mail address of a friend. I asked him the next day if he had a chance to e-mail the friend. He said no. I had just spoken to the friend's wife and she said my husband had e-mailed her husband and she told me what was in the e-mail. Yet, my husband insisted he had not. I don't get it. Why the need to lie about something so nothing.

I once heard that a person tells the truth when they are angry. The day my husband told me he wanted a divorce, he said he did not love me and had not loved me for a long time. He was really angry when he said it. That is probably the only truthful thing he has said in 22 years. It feels good to no longer be around him and not hear from him. I know as long as he is not speaking, he is not lying. I was tired of trying to prove his lies. I was tired of his denial when I had physical proof he was lying. The frustration and stress was bad for my health. I am in a better place now.

Please seek individual counseling to find the root of what drives you to lie. It isn't healthy and it will destroy any relationship you have in your life.

 

[that_girl]

Lies are so destructive.

My husband lied about everything...even about loving me.

We're in the process of divorce now. Best thing I've done for myslf in a long time. I can't live in that life of skepticism and doubt. That sucks to not trust anything that comes out of my spouse's mouth.

 

[Illbehisfoolagain]

Are you a pathological liar in general? Or just to your wife? I have always been fascinated by pathological liars, and what goes on in their minds. What sort of things go on in your mind as you are lying to her? Does it feel like you are smarter than her? Better than her because you can "trick" her? You say you can't help it, but clearly you make the decision to lie to her, and you KNOW you are when you are doing it, so clearly you feel like you benefit from it somehow.

 

[SlowlyGettingWiser]

We are suppose to go on a 2 day trip next Thursday and now I don't think that will happen. How can I tell her that I think we should still do our plans when she is unwilling to have anything to do with me?

Unfortunately, YOU don't get to call the shots on this! BE HONEST! "Honey, I would still really enjoy going on the trip with you later this week, but if you need time to be alone, I do truly understand." Let HER decide; she is VERY hurt and disappointed in you RIGHT NOW.

My W tells me if I don't want to lie to her than I should just not do it. And I thought it too, "just don't lie to her."

If it was REALLY THIS SIMPLE, YOU would have quit lying years ago. It ain't simple. It's not "just lying". You have trust issues (you don't trust your wife as your partner to love you NO MATTER WHAT), and you have learned avoidance by lying.

That is why counseling is CRUCIAL to you! Somewhere along the line (probably childhood, since lying is an immature reaction), you LEARNED that lying was a positive thing. It either got you something POSITIVE (applause, atta-boys, approval, etc.) OR it kept you from receiving something NEGATIVE (punishment, disapproval, etc.).

This happened OFTEN ENOUGH that YOU LEARNED that lying was your friend; that lying was a good way to resolve potential conflict. Now you need to learn:

• *what/who* led you to believe this
• *why* you are now grown up BEYOND the point of needing to hide behind lies
• *what* will happen when you tell the truth in stressful times

Counseling will help you figure out WHY this started and HOW it was reinforced and HOW to stop it.

Was there someone in your childhood (parent, grandparent, sibling, babysitter) who would punish you (physically, verbally, emotionally) if you were wrong/not the best/less than 'perfect'?

Was there someone in your childhood whose love was CONDITIONAL on you behaving a certain way? (#1 in your class, best on your team, most improved, Eagle Scout, never in trouble, never made mistakes, 'perfect')

Counseling will help you FIGURE THIS OUT. At an appropriate time, explain it to your wife. Assure her that when YOU find the answer, you will let her know WHY you started on this behavior, why you CONTINUED to have this behavior, WHY you felt like you couldn't trust HER or ANYONE with the REAL YOU, and HOW you will be overcoming this addiction to lying/avoiding the truth/avoiding stressful situations.

Tell her you understand it is NOT her. It is you; that you're baffled by it, but will figure this out and solve it for your own betterment. You'd like her to be around for the new improved you, but that will be 100% HER choice.

*hugs*

 

[Plumbolt]

I find the person I lie to the most is my wife. I think I do lie in other aspects of my life, but generally speaking it's to her. I think I lie to keep myself from getting in trouble or to cover myself from saying the wrong thing. But when I lie to keep from getting in trouble in the end it makes way worse trouble for me. I love her and care so why do I hurt and dishonest the one person I want to be around? I must not love or care too much because I keep making the same mistakes of lying to her and not taking the steps to change and make it right. I can see why she doesn't want to be with me. She has given me many chances and now she is done with me.

 

[SaltInWound]

It's not "just lying". You have trust issues (you don't trust your wife as your partner to love you NO MATTER WHAT), and you have learned avoidance by lying.

Wow, that hurts, but it makes perfect sense in my situation. I once asked him in an e-mail if he trusted me. His response...."ha ha". I asked him what was so funny and he changed the subject. Whatever it is that he is running from, lying is not his only way of coping. He also has a gambling problem. I have never given him a reason not to trust me, yet he hides money from me. Really sad when you think about it.

 

[unbelievable]

Plumbolt, you lie because you don't trust. You don't trust her to hear the truth and you don't trust yourself to bear any consequences. Lying is not a normal human action. The body reacts badly when we lie (unless someone's a sociopath). What did you think would happened if you had told her about your debt before marriage? You thought she valued $15,000 more than you?
Is getting yelled at so unbearable that it's worth your integrity and self-respect? Join the Marines. You'll hear some yelling and you'll live. The worst someone can do to you is kill you and they can only do that once. If you're being a good, honest, hard-working man and you make the occasional mistake, if someone can't accept and forgive that, piss on them.
When you marry, two folks really do practically become one and it gets more so the longer you stay together. Lying to your wife is like lying to yourself....and that doesn't make sense.
Having said all that, nobody on earth wants 100% honesty, least of all, wives. They'll beat me up for saying this, but it's true. They don't really want to know when their butt looks fat or when the other woman at the party is sexier than they are, or when their casserole tastes like dog food. They don't want you to agree with them when they are sick and they say they look hideous. Be honest but have a little tact and common sense. A woman that says she'll divorce her man over ANY lie might as well call a lawyer because no husband survives marriage without knowing how to act lovingly when he feels like screaming and throwing things, without acting interested when he's bored to tears, without acting affectionate when he feels tired, distracted, etc. You get the idea. If your dishonesty is out of cowardice or for any selfish motive, it's wrong. If it's to lovingly spare the feelings of another, it's appropriate. When an adoring parent shows you photos of their ugly baby, only a cretin would honestly tell them they have an ugly baby. It's just your opinion, anyway.

 

[SaltInWound]

I find the person I lie to the most is my wife. I think I do lie in other aspects of my life, but generally speaking it's to her. I think I lie to keep myself from getting in trouble or to cover myself from saying the wrong thing. But when I lie to keep from getting in trouble in the end it makes way worse trouble for me. I love her and care so why do I hurt and dishonest the one person I want to be around? I must not love or care too much because I keep making the same mistakes of lying to her and not taking the steps to change and make it right. I can see why she doesn't want to be with me. She has given me many chances and now she is done with me.

Were you like this when you were little? Were your parents controlling? A conditional love?

 

[Plumbolt]

I thought maybe I would update the situation here and see if I could get anymore advice. So for 2 days now I have been regulated to the basement while my W is upstairs. She wants nothing to do with me and is giving me the silent treatment. I have tried to talk to her a couple of times to say, "I know you want nothing to do with me, but I want to do whatever I can to make it better." "What can I do to make it better?" She replies, "Nothing."

Over the weekend I contacted a counselor and have to wait until tomorrow for her to get back to me with a chance to set up an appointment. Number one I want to work on my habitual lying, my immaturity, and ways to show my W I care and love her and want to make our marriage grow. I think it might be too late based on the things she has said but I know I need to do this for me. I've also been spending my time on this forum and searching online for ways to confront my lying and stop my marriage from ending in a divorce. Yesterday I went to the library and got a few books on the subject and I have started reading and I hope to find exercises or ways of thinking about what I can do here.

I want to put in the effort to realize my problems and to change from being a child in my relationship to an adult. I am worried that she is done and not talking to her and being told to stay in the basement is extremely difficult for me to go along with. I know I need to understand what she is asking, but it is so hard to not go upstairs and force some interaction.

I just hope that I can make a serious change and show her even though I have driven her beyond her control there is something here. I don't know, I just feel so horrible.

 

[3Xnocharm]

You need to leave her alone, and respect her wish that she wants a divorce. Work ON yourself FOR yourself. If you try to improve your issues just for her, then there is no point to it, because you are trying for the wrong reason. You should be concerned FOR YOURSELF about your need to lie, otherwise you will never have a successful relationship in the future. You should want yourself to be a better man than that. Respect that your wife is done, she has put up with way more than a lot of us would have. I have a compulsive liar in my past, that's why he is in my PAST.

 

[SlowlyGettingWiser]

*hugs* Plumbolt, I cannot imagine how tough it is for you! You have my RESPECT for humbly acknowledging your faults and TRYING hard to overcome them.

Remember, the work you do on YOU will last a lifetime! You will be your children's FATHER for a lifetime! You will be interacting with your wife for YEARS (decades). If you are TRUE and SINCERE and DILIGENT in your efforts to IMPROVE YOURSELF, she cannot FAIL to notice the positive changes in YOU.

If she decides to give you another chance in the future, she would be giving a BETTER YOU a chance. If she doesn't want to give you another chance, at least YOU KNOW that she will NOT REGRET having chosen YOU as the ONLY FATHER of her children. Do your best NOW and going FORWARD to make sure she does NOT regret that choice ever again!

You CAN do it, MAN! And you have great kids as the impetus for positive change!

 

[KathyBatesel]

1. If you're still staying in the same household, it's not over.

2. If you haven't done something TANGIBLE, it's going to be hard for her to have any reason to give you another chance. You have to find something that gives her a benefit if you fail, because she hasn't seen any benefits from giving you chances before.

Despite SGW's thoughts on my suggestion about initiating a stiff fine/penalty, I still think that's your best shot. If you're avoiding this, I hope you'll seriously ask yourself why. If you are completely serious about not lying again, it's low risk to you. If you're resistant to the idea, maybe it's because your inner self is trying to protect the behavior.

 

[Plumbolt]

KathyBatesel thank you for your suggestion/idea about a fine for lying. The reason I am hesitant to go along with that is because our finances are connected plus we are both students so we don't actually have any income. So there is not any real penalty if I was to pay her $20 if I lied so I don't think that would be a good deterent or really get at the cause.

I have an appointment in a week to speak with a counselor. I plan on saying, "Look, I lie and I've lied so many times to my wife she wants a divorce, her mind seems made up, what can I do to fix me and my problems?" I hope something can come out of this.

I really don't want to lose my W but I guess I have no say in that. I have pushed her over the edge and now I have no say in the matter.