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Was that helpful? I tried my best, and I'm still working on those answers every day. That's what I have for now.
This was a wonderfully thoughtful answer.

Ever hear of Schrodinger's cat or the quantum cat? I honestly can't be sure. I can guess that I wouldn't have understood his pain nearly as much and been as understanding of that choice should he have made it, but other than that I'm not sure how I would have reacted.
Interesting. I am unsure of your context though, are you saying you have no way of knowing because you only experienced it one way?

I like to think of us as two old gnarled trees twisted around eachother. We are both leaning on eachother. But as we lean on eachother we also gain support. The very act of those two trees needing to lean also supports the other.

Melodramatic I guess, but I think of those two old twisted tree as miraculous. Would either one stand without the other? It's a privilege to support my husband as much as it is to lean on him.
This is particularly lovely.

For me this story and others like it are the reason why I would never say that having a revenge affair always makes the marriage worse (which is often said when this kind of stuff comes up). I have just read too many times that sometimes that is what it takes to make the WS understand. As twisted as it is sometimes it does make the marriage better.

However I still argue against it because I think having an affair does great damage to the person having it. The cost of ones honor is just too high for the payoff of trying to teach someone else empathy. It also doesn't seem intuitive that hurting someone else (the other spouse if you are in an adulterous relationship) or even the person you are having an affair with if you're only using them to get back at you unfaithful spouse, is a good way to build empathy in someone else. It could be argued though if you both are doing it, say if the two cheated on spouses just have casual sex to get back at their spouses then they are only hurting people who deserve it. Honestly I could see this point but still I would advise against it. Then my reasoning would be because if the feelings are real you would still be better able to pursue this new relationship without the added problem of still being married to someone else. In other words just divorce and meet someone new. In this way you give yourself the best chance at a good start. That doesn't mean revenge affairs don't work though, as you are an example and not the only one.

Continuing that thought, what do you think your husband thinks and how do you think about that?

There was probably and may still be a feeling of justice or payback in the fact that you got to experience at least the type of pain and worthlessness that he surly felt.

If I am being honest I am probably less hard on you on these boards because of this, and also more in favor of reconciliation in your case because of this sense of justice. That probably doesn't say good things about me or my advice though.

This brings up the idea that his affair may have even have been healing for him in the sense that it may have given him back a feeling of still being attractive to other women. Given him his mojo back so to speak, though in a sleazy way at the expense of others. Do you think this is true? Would he agree?

Do you think he looks back on it with guilt or not? I know for me the guilt of knowing the pain that I helped create in that women's husband would be hard for me to take. I also would not want to think of myself as capable of that. No offense but from my point of view no women or relationship would be worth my honor.

Do you think this has cost your husband (not your affair now but his?)

What do you think would have happened if your husband's paramour had been more then just a booty call but someone who he really fell in love with?

Would that have been worse?

Would you have fought for him at that point?

Where do you think you would be now if say he just left you at that point?

Maybe say you were to find out at the point where he was leaving, do you think you would have gotten to this same place if he hadn't stayed around or you marriage had ended?

Overall can you think of any way or any point before all this happened that this could have all been prevented?

Was there ever a point where you would have been open enough to change without the destruction?

Finally how are YOU doing? How far along are you? Do you know the sex of the baby?
 

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This was a wonderfully thoughtful answer.



Interesting. I am unsure of your context though, are you saying you have no way of knowing because you only experienced it one way?



This is particularly lovely.

For me this story and others like it are the reason why I would never say that having a revenge affair always makes the marriage worse (which is often said when this kind of stuff comes up). I have just read too many times that sometimes that is what it takes to make the WS understand. As twisted as it is sometimes it does make the marriage better.

However I still argue against it because I think having an affair does great damage to the person having it. The cost of ones honor is just too high for the payoff of trying to teach someone else empathy. It also doesn't seem intuitive that hurting someone else (the other spouse if you are in an adulterous relationship) or even the person you are having an affair with if you're only using them to get back at you unfaithful spouse, is a good way to build empathy in someone else. It could be argued though if you both are doing it, say if the two cheated on spouses just have casual sex to get back at their spouses then they are only hurting people who deserve it. Honestly I could see this point but still I would advise against it. Then my reasoning would be because if the feelings are real you would still be better able to pursue this new relationship without the added problem of still being married to someone else. In other words just divorce and meet someone new. In this way you give yourself the best chance at a good start. That doesn't mean revenge affairs don't work though, as you are an example and not the only one.

Continuing that thought, what do you think your husband thinks and how do you think about that?

There was probably and may still be a feeling of justice or payback in the fact that you got to experience at least the type of pain and worthlessness that he surly felt.

If I am being honest I am probably less hard on you on these boards because of this, and also more in favor of reconciliation in your case because of this sense of justice. That probably doesn't say good things about me or my advice though.

This brings up the idea that his affair may have even have been healing for him in the sense that it may have given him back a feeling of still being attractive to other women. Given him his mojo back so to speak, though in a sleazy way at the expense of others. Do you think this is true? Would he agree?

Do you think he looks back on it with guilt or not? I know for me the guilt of knowing the pain that I helped create in that women's husband would be hard for me to take. I also would not want to think of myself as capable of that. No offense but from my point of view no women or relationship would be worth my honor.

Do you think this has cost your husband (not your affair now but his?)

What do you think would have happened if your husband's paramour had been more then just a booty call but someone who he really fell in love with?

Would that have been worse?

Would you have fought for him at that point?

Where do you think you would be now if say he just left you at that point?

Maybe say you were to find out at the point where he was leaving, do you think you would have gotten to this same place if he hadn't stayed around or you marriage had ended?

Overall can you think of any way or any point before all this happened that this could have all been prevented?

Was there ever a point where you would have been open enough to change without the destruction?

Finally how are YOU doing? How far along are you? Do you know the sex of the baby?
There is so much wisdom in this post, I had to respond.
My revenge affair - though I prefer the term reactive affair - resulted in every single one of the disastrous results that sokillme eloquently enumerated. My H finally sees the destruction his affairs created but it has been at too high a cost for me to bear. When the first affair was uncovered, had he fallen on his knees to beg my forgiveness, done everything he could to show me true remorse then ironically we would probably be reconciled. But it took my own affair for him to suddenly decide he loved me and didn't want to lose me. By that time, I had one foot out the door already and all trust was gone. He may truly believe he loves me, but it's an opportunistic love borne out of his fear of losing his children and his home. I can see that it is different for you.
 

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One of the big hurdles here is that your husband may be in a situation that he likely finds to be waaaaay better than being with you.

Unlike you who chucked it all away for a short fat loser who nodded his head when you whined about your life, your husband found himself a young and tight girl who sucks him off and takes it anally for him - and lets him document it on video!

I'll bet she doesn't belittle him either.

If he wants to even consider staying with you, chances are you're going to have to match and exceed that action.

Can you beat that? Have you tried? What is sex like at the moment?

Even more challenging, if you do "bring it" sexually, then he is going to run through mind movies of you giving blowjobs and anal (Or whatever it was. He'll figure you were way more into sex with your AP since you shunned and betrayed him for this man and he is probably correct.)

That thought process may cause him to not want to touch you at all.

In fact, he may have left that video evidence for you to enjoy so you can marinate in some of the hurt, disgust, and uncertainty you made him feel before he cuts you loose.

Be prepared that you may have been replaced with an upgrade.
Agreed!
 

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I'll have to answer your other questions later after I have some time to think about them.

But the baby is a boy! We did a NIPT test to check for down syndrome and other issues and got our answer. My husband was all smiles. 🙂 the baby seems perfectly healthy as well.
How are you doing, how is the baby?
 

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You know I am as harsh as anyone, but come on guys.

@FoolishOne, her husband, his OW, her AP, the only one that is innocent is the OWH as far as we know.

But to say that the OW is worse than FoolishOne, guys that is silly. She is the same as FO, that is the bottom line.

The only thing that FO has is her favor is she did not completely trash her H, so there is that.

All this relative outrage is just ridiculous. And, let's completely be honest. FO's husband would have probably NEVER had an affair if she had not had one first.

And of course FO's H had an affair JUST to get his balls back, and he did some coke, give me a break. The man needed to get his balls back, and they are fully attached, so he can get his head together now.

Let's get this thing in focus, nobody here is clean, they have all made mistakes.

AND DO NOT TELL OWH in person. I put a man in the hospital for that one time, so no do not do that.

Both of you need to chill for a few days and take your time with all of this.

And @FoolishOne, you are getting support because you manage to understand what we were telling you, you confessed, and you are moving forward.

Just keep moving forward...
What a crock of ****. FO's husband may have needed to get his balls back like you said - but there were plenty of MUCH better ways to do it. FO's husband IS a POS. What FO did prior to FOH deciding to jump in bed with a married woman is irrelevant. HE decided to sleep with a married woman and HE decided to get his jollies off emasculating another man simply because he had it done to him. Gives new meaning to the phrase "Pay it forward" I guess... JFC...
 

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My previous post was based on what I knew at the moment when I made the response - roughly in the middle of the thread. I read the rest of the thread. I'm glad the OWH was told about the affair his wife had with FOH. I'm glad OWH is divorcing the cheating skank of a wife. I get that FO had an affair first and that she was horrible to be around before, during and early in the aftermath of the affair around DD. Still, zero excuse for FOH to seek out a MARRIED WOMAN for his RA. IMHO, what FOH did was worse than FO. Both of them did rotten things, but FOH was worse. He KNEW what it felt like to be cheated on - and he "payed it forward" to ensure that some other dude got a chance to feel the same thing. He played a part in that.

So...why am I so hung up on FOH? Because IMHO they BOTH need IC. I'm really curious about how much remorse (not regret) that FOH has for hurting the BH of his paramour. Such a gross lack of empathy - which IMHO makes it so much more difficult to try to put this marriage back together. We need to hear more about FOH's atonement and how he's trying to make things right in this **** storm of a marriage. IMHO, very important if they want a chance to get it right. JMHO.
 
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