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Husband will not set boundaries with someone he cheated with

7K views 65 replies 20 participants last post by  StarFires 
#1 ·
My husband and I have been married for 14 years and we have just started marriage counseling a couple of months ago. There has been infidelity and a lot of lies, but I am trying to work on forgiving and moving forward. I am struggling with some issues that will, of course, take awhile to be resolved. My husband and I have both decided that we are going to do the work to regain trust and we have both agreed that our marriage is worth saving.

I am having some trouble with boundaries. I had a difficult time with them in the beginning of our counseling because I was basing them on the wrong thing. Just some back story before I get to the actual question I want to ask.

Now, we have an issue that started in the beginning of our marriage. It actually started before our marriage, but I did not find that out until well into our marriage. My husband had a female best friend that I knew about and I had met once. I didn't know her that well but he didn't really say much about her and I didn't really know anything so it wasn't a big deal to me. I was so young and so in love that I basically didn't see the red flags going up all around me. After we were married and I was around them more and more, I began to see signs that this was not a friendship but something more. I voiced my concern and was met with, "well if you don't like it, you can leave because she was here before you and she always will be". At the time I was very young and always used the 'but he loves me and he is married to me' logic. Fast forward a few years and I found out that he had made out with her (during our marriage) and for whatever reason it didn't go any further than that. As far as I know now, that is the only time that he physically cheated on me with her, but I am well aware that there is probably more times and I will never really know unless he or she tells me. She lives in another state, but he goes back sometimes to visit for different reasons. Long story short, they stopped talking. She is now married but I know that when he visits they all hangout like old times. She has a sister and my husband texts her first thing and I feel like her sister is his connection to hold onto her.. Does that make sense? He doesn't talk to his former-best-friend by phone or messenger but he does text her sister and hangs out with her when he goes home. I know that if the sister is around the former-best-friend is around and he does not understand why I have an issue with him talking to her sister.

He recently went home and of course he was hanging out with her, her sister and his cousins (the sisters are best friends with his cousin). He claims to not see why I have an issue with him contacting her sister and why I have an issue with him putting himself in the same situation that brought on most of the pain and distrust that is in our relationship now.

Is it unrealistic of me to expect him to set boundaries in this situation because of the close relationship she has with his own family member? I am really struggling with this because I feel that he will make the family issue the main argument- accusing me of telling him he can't hang out with his family- and I fear it may be a deal-breaker for him. I think that he doesn't want to set boundaries or change anything because he is still trying to hold on to their connection through her sister. (I did my best to explain the situation)
 
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#2 ·
Is it unrealistic of me to expect him to set boundaries in this situation because of the close relationship she has with his own family member? I am really struggling with this because I feel that he will make the family issue the main argument- accusing me of telling him he can't hang out with his family- and I fear it may be a deal-breaker for him.

I think he's full of **** and if he were my husband, I'll tell him to either stop seeing her and her sister or he could just stop seeing me forever. It's not at all unrealistic for you to want to set boundaries. By not being willing to follow your boundaries he's telling you how he feels about you and your marriage. Please, listen to him.
 
#4 · (Edited)
I voiced my concern and was met with, "well if you don't like it, you can leave . . ."
Since you stayed instead of leaving when he gave you this stupid ultimatum, you showed him a bunch of things, namely:

1. That you are desperate to keep him;
2. That he means more to you than you mean to yourself;
3. That he is the most important person in the relationship;
4. That he can continue to dupe you and see his lover as often as he can make the trip and use her sister and family as decoy;
5. That he can continue to snow you by pretending he doesn't understand what you say.

He did all those things because you allowed him. You essentially told him he could because people will try to get away with doing whatever they can get away with doing.

I am really struggling with this because I feel that he will make the family issue the main argument- accusing me of telling him he can't hang out with his family
Of course he will. He uses everything you say against you. He uses all of your insecurities against you.

and I fear it may be a deal-breaker for him.
That's why you're still there putting up with his bullcrap and all this silly drama. He keep letting him know you love him more than you love yourself.

Is it unrealistic of me to expect him to set boundaries in this situation because of the close relationship she has with his own family member? - I think that he doesn't want to set boundaries or change anything because he is still trying to hold on to their connection through her sister. (I did my best to explain the situation)
Do you know how often people come to internet boards like this wanting their spouse to change, while they, themselves, don't want to do any changing? It's every day. It's all the time. And you have joined their ranks.

It's also very common for people throw the word "boundaries" around when it applies to their spouse/partner, but they really have no idea what that word means.

So I'm asking why you want HIM to establish and enforce boundaries, but you don't have any boundaries yourself?

Boundaries are based on the personal values and rules of conduct that a person places on THEMSELVES and those in their life. That means you can only establish boundaries for yourself. You cannot require someone else has boundaries because, again, boundaries are borne of a person's OWN value system and are up to each individual to establish for themselves. Either he has boundaries or he doesn't. Whether he has any is not for you to be concerned with. You can only concern yourself with your own boundaries.

So if you want anyone to have boundaries, you have to have some. But you don't. You just keep letting this man run over you as he pleases. If there are things he does that you don't like and he is disrespectful to you, which there clearly are and he clearly is, then you have to establish your own boundaries and determine you don't like those disrespectful things he does. And then, you have to decide what to do about his disrespect and crossing your boundaries.

You cannot decide to keep telling him and keep arguing with him because all you're doing is arguing. And all he's doing is pretending he doesn't understand what you say. Having boundaries is not about arguing a person into compliance because you can't MAKE anyone do what you want. You can only show them that you won't tolerate what they do and won't tolerate them disrespecting you, and you can't keep telling them over and over "I'm not going to tolerate this." You have to show them that you're not....by leaving since they refuse to respect your boundaries.

Until you have respect for yourself and establish your own boundaries, your husband is going to keep on disrespecting you because you don't respect yourself. Since you love him more than you love yourself, you might as well stop arguing and stop trying to explain things to him just so he can keep pretending not to understand and using everything against you.

And just for the record, they have done much more than kiss. "It was just a kiss" was just another snow job that you fell for.
 
#11 ·
Since you stayed instead of leaving when he gave you this stupid ultimatum, you showed him a bunch of things, namely:

1. That you are desperate to keep him;
2. That he means more to you than you mean to yourself;
3. That he is the most important person in the relationship;
4. That he can continue to dupe you and see his lover as often as he can make the trip and use her sister and family as decoy;
5. That he can continue to snow you by pretending he doesn't understand what you say.
This was very hard to read. It's difficult to think that I have allowed myself be this kind of person because everything you listed is true. Our therapist is aware of this situation, we all talked about it and he said nothing even close to this and I wish he had.

But NMJ, she didn't say she wants him to follow her boundaries because she doesn't have any boundaries. She said she wants HIM to set boundaries.
*********************************

Do you know how often people come to internet boards like this wanting their spouse to change, while they, themselves, don't want to do any changing? It's every day. It's all the time. And you have joined their ranks.

It's also very common for people throw the word "boundaries" around when it applies to their spouse/partner, but they really have no idea what that word means.

So I'm asking why you want HIM to establish and enforce boundaries, but you don't have any boundaries yourself?

In our therapy sessions we talked about boundaries and I THOUGHT I have been having trouble with them because I didn't really understand them, but now I think it's because I'm scared. I am so scared that my husband is going to say, "no, eff that. I'm leaving." and not only will I be a failure, but I will also get that final hit to knock me in the head and show me that he never really cared about me as much as I have cared about him. I did write some down though and it was extremely difficult for me to think of what I wanted/needed from him. The therapist wanted me to come up with 5-7 non-negotiable boundaries and I could only think of 2. I did go over them with my husband and he agreed to them, but I just now realized that neither of my boundaries specifically covered this "best friend" situation.


Of course he will. He uses everything you say against you. He uses all of your insecurities against you.
I have just thought of multiple examples of times that he has done this.



Boundaries are based on the personal values and rules of conduct that a person places on THEMSELVES and those in their life. That means you can only establish boundaries for yourself. You cannot require someone else has boundaries because, again, boundaries are borne of a person's OWN value system and are up to each individual to establish for themselves. Either he has boundaries or he doesn't. Whether he has any is not for you to be concerned with. You can only concern yourself with your own boundaries.

So if you want anyone to have boundaries, you have to have some. But you don't. You just keep letting this man run over you as he pleases. If there are things he does that you don't like and he is disrespectful to you, which there clearly are and he clearly is, then you have to establish your own boundaries and determine you don't like those disrespectful things he does. And then, you have to decide what to do about his disrespect and crossing your boundaries.

You cannot decide to keep telling him and keep arguing with him because all you're doing is arguing. And all he's doing is pretending he doesn't understand what you say. Having boundaries is not about arguing a person into compliance because you can't MAKE anyone do what you want. You can only show them that you won't tolerate what they do and won't tolerate them disrespecting you, and you can't keep telling them over and over "I'm not going to tolerate this." You have to show them that you're not....by leaving since they refuse to respect your boundaries.

Until you have respect for yourself and establish your own boundaries, your husband is going to keep on disrespecting you because you don't respect yourself. Since you love him more than you love yourself, you might as well stop arguing and stop trying to explain things to him just so he can keep pretending not to understand and using everything against you.
Thank you for this. You made this a lot more clear than our therapist did. He gave me a handout and it didn't give a very good explanation. It just gave examples and did not explain that they are mine and have nothing to do with my husband.

And just for the record, they have done much more than kiss. "It was just a kiss" was just another snow job that you fell for.
The insecure person in me wants to give an explanation of how I "know" that it wasn't more than a kiss, but I see the silliness in that. If the kiss happened, there was definitely more that has happened between them, even if it was at a different time.
 
#16 ·
He thinks that we can repair the damage, but he is having us do individual work first before we start working on the couple's therapy. So we have talked about the different situations that brought us to seek his help, but we just had a quick discussion. I think once we start the couple sessions exclusively, we will go more in-depth about each situation.
 
#15 ·
My husband and I have been married for 14 years and we have just started marriage counseling a couple of months ago. There has been infidelity and a lot of lies, but I am trying to work on forgiving and moving forward. I am struggling with some issues that will, of course, take awhile to be resolved. My husband and I have both decided that we are going to do the work to regain trust and we have both agreed that our marriage is worth saving.
How is he trying to regain your trust? - I don't see it from your description.

Find someone who cares about you.
 
#30 ·
We have had other issues besides this one. They are more recent and don't involve as deep of a connection as he has with this person, but I think it was on the way to getting there. The two boundaries that I was able to muster up had to do with this situation.
 
#19 ·
Lala, I'm not going to try to quote everything you've said in your subsequent posts. I'm just going to try to tell you that you don't need marriage counseling right now. It cannot possibly do your marriage any good, and there are a few reasons for that. One is that the type of guy your husband is, the marriage counseling can't work on him because he doesn't respect his wife, and also because he's not willing to change. Just like he snows you, he also snows the counselor. Men like him are very charming and very convincing to make people think they are respectable and sincere. But he isn't. Instead of learning and applying the concepts, none of them mean anything to him. He's just thinking "yeah, right. I'll do as I please and keep getting away with it." You see how he found a way to circumvent direct contact with her by using her sister as a decoy. That's the way he is. He is adept at making you think he's doing as you asked, only to find slicker ways to do what he wants. So would you pleeeease stop repeating what he told you? All he does is lie and twist things to fool you. He says he doesn't talk to her, but he surely does talk to her. You know there's such a thing as 3-way calling, right? He calls the sister, and the sister calls her so the two of them can talk and make plans, while he dupes you into thinking he doesn't call her anymore. Well, he doesn't call her. See how slick he is?

Another reason is that you're not mentally prepared for marriage counseling. Being that you are ruled by fear of losing your husband, it can't possibly work because MC is a negotiation. Each partner has to be willing to give and each has to be willing to stand their ground. But you are more willing to give because you can't stand your ground. In order to do that, you have to know your worth.

To help you build your self-esteem, you need strong women in your life to coach you. You need individual counseling to help you find who you are. And you need a determination to listen - to listen to both the people advising you and to listen to your own gut instincts. Don't worry, girl, we'll be the BFFs that you never had.

And finally, the purpose of marriage counseling is not to point the flaws of the individuals in front of them. Their job is to teach you how to communicate better, how to fight fairly, how to strengthen your marriage, etc. But like I said, your husband is busy fooling the counselor.

The marriage counselors job is not to play mommy and make your husband behave and act right. His job is not to settle your disputes. His job is to teach you how to settle disputes between you, as well as how to prevent problems from blowing out of proportion and out of control.

So to expect him to advise you as we here have done is not in his job description. That he hasn't is actually no surprise at all. Again, you need your own counselor to help and once you have built up your self-esteem and gained strength from individual counseling, then you can consider marriage counseling if you still want to. What I expect, and hope, is that you will no longer want marriage counseling because you will have built up the nerve to kick your husband out and tell his so-called "best friend" that she can have him. LOL

But seriously, unless you are able to demand respect by not tolerating his disrespect, marriage counseling can't help your marriage.
 
#21 ·
Rome wasn't built in a day and neither is self-esteem. Your eyes are being opened and you're willing to learn. It will come as you grow. Let yourself grow and you'll learn as you go.

Also, your husband doesn't have to agree to your boundaries. They are your boundaries. You tell your husband what they are and then if he steps over your line, you move back away from him to protect yourself.
 
#23 ·
Great post. @lala210 I think it's time you worked on yourself first and not the marriage. Are you doing the individual work your marriage counselor recommended with that same counselor? If so, stop. Get a different therapist, one whose only goal is to help YOU increase your sense of self worth and learn that you are worth so much more than what your husband is offering. You should go in with attitude of "I need help fixing ME" not that you need help fixing your marriage. It will take time, as Cynthia said, Rome wasn't built in a day.

Also, keep reading a lot of the posts here. As you read more and more you'll read stories about marriages that show you what you want and what you don't want. There are some people here with really good marriages and the more of their posts you read the more you'll start to see how things should be, how your husband should be treating you. There are also lots of stories of bad marriages and reading about those helps too.

Because you may not know it, but you are worth it.
 
#26 ·
You both should read "Not Just Friends" by Dr Shirley Glass.

It's based on research on couples that experienced infidelity and the 'boundaries' they crossed that made their marriage vulnerable. You'll identify/read about some of the boundaries you should insist your husband apply.

Plus:

1 - Every spouse has a right to feel safe from infidelity. Your husband's continued contact is a big fail (and IMO is cruel to you). NC means NC with the OW or anyone that knew of the affair (like the sister?). He cheated, therefore, one of the consequences is that he needs to do whatever it takes to make you feel safe (forever). Why does he go out of town without you? Why would he want to?

2 - There's sort of a consensus (maybe in writing somewhere) that to save your marriage you need to be willing to lose it. I think it means your spouse will not take anything you say seriously unless they believe (really believe) you are ready to divorce them (and he faces the reality of losing you).

3 - Unfortunately nice loving kind people (nothing for you to be ashamed of) are at a disadvantage when dealing with someone that is: selfish, entitled, and lacks empathy for you. He sees your niceness & tolerance as a weakness that he can't stop himself from taking advantage of (like you're giving him a free pass).

4 - Are you financially dependent on him? If so, change that.

5 - If you can't stand up to him face to face, write down a list of what changes he needs to make. Insist he reply in writing. The day before you give him the list, see an attorney about how divorce will impact you (the first hour is usually free). Preface your list by acknowledging you spoke to an attorney.
 
#37 · (Edited)
You both should read "Not Just Friends" by Dr Shirley Glass.

It's based on research on couples that experienced infidelity and the 'boundaries' they crossed that made their marriage vulnerable. You'll identify/read about some of the boundaries you should insist your husband apply.


As soon as I read your post, I looked into the book, read the reviews and I just ordered it. I am looking forward to this because our therapist had us buy a book that is similar but it was written for the person who was committing the infidelity. I still read it though.

1 - Every spouse has a right to feel safe from infidelity. Your husband's continued contact is a big fail (and IMO is cruel to you). NC means NC with the OW or anyone that knew of the affair (like the sister?). He cheated, therefore, one of the consequences is that he needs to do whatever it takes to make you feel safe (forever). Why does he go out of town without you? Why would he want to?

I said in another reply that asking for NC with this woman is so scary to me. I've been made to feel that she is more important than me and now, I think I believe it because I worry that he will say no and refuse to do it. I am hopeful that if I continue to care for myself and do the work to get better, this will not be so scary and I will be in a place where I can accept it and move forward. As far as the vacationing solo.. There are different reasons why. It is mostly financial. I'm sure part of it is because he gets to go home and do what he wants.

2 - There's sort of a consensus (maybe in writing somewhere) that to save your marriage you need to be willing to lose it. I think it means your spouse will not take anything you say seriously unless they believe (really believe) you are ready to divorce them (and he faces the reality of losing you).

Before we went to marriage counseling, I did tell him that I cannot continue to deal with him being disrespectful. I told him that I do not trust him. I did not say that I was going to leave him. I just said I cannot do it anymore. I don't think I am to the point that I can say it and mean it, yet. I do know that if I say it, I have to mean it and follow through and I am not ready to yet.

3 - Unfortunately nice loving kind people (nothing for you to be ashamed of) are at a disadvantage when dealing with someone that is: selfish, entitled, and lacks empathy for you. He sees your niceness & tolerance as a weakness that he can't stop himself from taking advantage of (like you're giving him a free pass).

We are opposites, for sure.

4 - Are you financially dependent on him? If so, change that.

He makes more money, so yes. I will.

5 - If you can't stand up to him face to face, write down a list of what changes he needs to make. Insist he reply in writing. The day before you give him the list, see an attorney about how divorce will impact you (the first hour is usually free). Preface your list by acknowledging you spoke to an attorney.

I admit, when I read this my first thought was "no, I can't do that. It's too much and it will make him think I am crazy and he'll leave me" I have just been reading it over & over and I think that when I'm ready, it will be one of the steps I take to show that I am serious about what I need and deserve in our relationship. (thank you)

Who's idea was MC?
There is a lot of variation in experience and training between therapists. It's very difficult to find a therapist with training and experience in infidelity. And you often have to go through several to find a good one on any topic.


The MC was my idea. I told him that I was going whether he goes or not and I was surprised that he decided to go. Our marriage counselor does have couples counseling listed in his bio but he is also a specialist in sexual addiction. I'm not sure how long I should try to see if he is a good match for us.

Generally MC focuses on forgiving and moving on (giving each other a second chance) vs fixing the underlying cause of infidelity by the cheater.

Unfortunately, you forgiving is just a short term band aid - and doesn't result in feeling safe long term (that he won't cheat again). Especially, with his continued disrespectful attitude, lack of empathy for your feelings - and his ongoing behavior.

There is a lot that your husband needs to fix about himself in his role as a husband before you guys can benefit from MC.

IMO you both need to work on yourselves first in IC .... and then come together later in MC.
Thank you, Robert22205 for taking the time to reply and for your understanding response. You have given me a lot to consider and think about. I appreciate your thoughtful advice. I want to feel safe and I deserve that. I want that from my husband and I hope that it will become a possibility but unfortunately right now its not and I am not sure that it ever will be possible. After reading your's and StarFires' replies, I have decided that the IC first is the best way to go. I have sent an appointment request to a female therapist that I am hoping will help me.
 
#27 ·
Who's idea was MC?

There is a lot of variation in experience and training between therapists. It's very difficult to find a therapist with training and experience in infidelity. And you often have to go through several to find a good one on any topic.

Generally MC focuses on forgiving and moving on (giving each other a second chance) vs fixing the underlying cause of infidelity by the cheater.

Unfortunately, you forgiving is just a short term band aid - and doesn't result in feeling safe long term (that he won't cheat again). Especially, with his continued disrespectful attitude, lack of empathy for your feelings - and his ongoing behavior.

There is a lot that your husband needs to fix about himself in his role as a husband before you guys can benefit from MC.

IMO you both need to work on yourselves first in IC .... and then come together later in MC.
 
#29 ·
Yes your H controls every aspect of your marriage, and what the hell, he's going on vacation without you and the children. Because of low funds and goes by himself. Is BS he makes himself entitled to do as he pleases. You have received good advice already, but if you only recognize and do nothing you will only feel worse for the most part.

Because you are gaining what is acceptable and what is not. But if you fail to act, will only reenforce your submissive nature and the neediness to keep him at all cost. You H is actually abusing you, but just lacks the physical bruising and beatings. It is you who must act and not wait for him or the counselor.

And use his assets against him, the home, his money, and his fear of losing it all. Because if there's not enough money to go around, guess he'll be doing overtime and eating ramen soups to support you and his children as he should.
 
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#32 ·
StarFires and notmyjamie,

I am also not going to quote everything you typed, but THANK YOU. THANK YOU so much for your advice and taking the time to respond. I really appreciate it. I read your responses and I have thought about them all night/morning. For the past couple of months, I have been writing in a journal trying to sort out everything I am feeling and what you have shared here has helped me to expand more on everything I am going through. I know that it is probably frustrating to read my post and responses. I would have never thought that posting this here on an online forum would do so much for me. I am hoping that all the realizations I have had in the past 24 hours will eventually grow into high self-worth and happiness. I know that sounds cheezy but it is true.
 
#36 · (Edited)
StarFires and notmyjamie,
I am also not going to quote everything you typed, but THANK YOU. THANK YOU so much for your advice and taking the time to respond. I really appreciate it. I read your responses and I have thought about them all night/morning. For the past couple of months, I have been writing in a journal trying to sort out everything I am feeling and what you have shared here has helped me to expand more on everything I am going through. I know that it is probably frustrating to read my post and responses. I would have never thought that posting this here on an online forum would do so much for me. I am hoping that all the realizations I have had in the past 24 hours will eventually grow into high self-worth and happiness. I know that sounds cheezy but it is true.
You're very welcome, Lala. We'll be the BFFs you never had and happy for the opportunity. But, please don't for one moment feel bad or think reading your posts are frustrating because they're not. You're one of many among us women who had things to learn because there was no one in our life previously to teach us. Like NMJ said she had to learn her lessons, so did I, as do most women. Mine weren't the same as yours, but they did, like yours, have a lot to do with my self-esteem being eroded and although I did have boundaries, I began dating and then living with a guy who tested my boundaries every day. But those tests weren't common, so I was unfamiliar. I only knew how awful he made me feel, which I couldn't explain because I couldn't identify it....and none of it made any sense.

This was nearly 30 years ago, at a time when abuse was only recognized as physical. So if a woman wasn't physically battered, then the egregious mental and emotional mistreatment wasn't attributed to being abused. And I'd never heard the word "narcissist." It was only 3 months, but I spent that 3 months in a total whirlwind of a tailspin. It was the hugest ball of confusion you could possibly imagine. After knowing him all my life, being the very best of friends, always together or on the phone, and him spoiling me, giving me everything I wanted, and taking around the country whenever I wanted to go. I was 33 when we got together romantically and all of a sudden, I couldn't do anything right, couldn't dress right, couldn't wear my hair right, couldn't be right about anything I said (even when I repeated what he had said), couldn't ask a question right (he'd always tell me "You didn't ask the right question), couldn't.... All of a sudden, there were always criticisms, put-downs, and demands that I do something rather than asking me to do it. I was so confused for those 3 months, always trying to figure out the skein of his constant contradictions, what on earth happened, and where did our great relationship go.

And then one day, while once again trying to rehash/examine/understand yet another of his assaults, something hit me like a tun of bricks. It occurred to me to ask myself why I kept allowing him to put me through this constantly trying to find answers to things that can't possibly be explained. I decided that none of it matters because the only thing that matters is that I.DON'T.LIKE.IT! Then I moved out a couple days later.

I got abuse counseling after that and learned about the broader scope of abuse. It was several years later that the internet came along, and I learned he was the textbook definition of a narcissist. That, along with him being a self-proclaimed male chauvinist, I knew I had dodged a very emotionally- and mentally-lethal bullet. He didn't cheat and didn't play the same games your husband plays, but, like your husband, he tried his best to tear me down. But I refused to let him. I think every woman has to learn these lessons at some point in their life, so I'm happy to share and help if I think I can.

My sister introduced me to this poem when I was 19 years old and I never forgot it. Thank goodness we have the internet.

After A While
by Veronica Shoffstall

After a while, you learn the subtle difference between
holding a hand and chaining a soul;

And you learn that love doesn’t mean leaning
And company doesn’t always mean security;

And you begin to learn that kisses aren’t contracts
And presents aren’t promises;

And you begin to accept your defeats
with your head up and your eyes ahead
with the grace of a woman, not the grief of a child;

And you learn to build all your roads on today
because tomorrow’s ground is too uncertain for plans
and futures have a way of falling down in mid-flight.

After a while, you learn that even sunshine burns
if you get too much, so you plant your own garden
and decorate your own soul, instead of waiting for
someone to bring you flowers;

And you learn that you really can endure.
You really are strong.
You really do have worth.

And you learn.
And you learn.

With every goodbye, you learn.
 
#35 ·
"Hey husband I've looked up one of my ex boyfriends and have decided that I'm going to go visit him in another state for the weekend alone. Don't even try to tell me that you have a problem with that."

While you're away, call a lawyer, because there's no way this guy has your back about anything.
 
#38 ·
This is brutal. Honey, your H doesn't treasure you at all. He treasures these "old times'" friends from his past, that clearly, he can't relinquish.

Listen to this very carefully. He will never ever ever give up this family he's visiting. There is a bond there that is clearly far less breakable than the bond he formed with you. This isn't to say he doesn't love you, or want to stay married. It just comes with conditions. They are 1st priority, and as long as you stay in 2nd place, he's fine with you in his life.

How does that marriage sound to you? Sounds awful to me.

I do not think this is salvageable, because he will never give them up, he will only say what he needs to say to keep you at the right distance.
 
#42 ·
I am an optimistic person. I think that it is possible for him to still visit with his family and spend time with them and still respect our marriage and respect me. But I think I will know everything I need to know when I am finally in a place that I can stand up for myself.
 
#53 ·
@lala210 You don't have to tell him that you had a consultation with a lawyer. Keep that knowledge as a gift for yourself. Knowledge is power.

I spoke with 2 lawyers several years ago, and kept it to myself. Some of my fear diminished as a result, and I also had to face some harsh realities about what life after divorce would be like. The government will make sure you get 50% of everything, including retirement and investments. He will have to finance some education to get you ready for a job in your field if you previously worked in a profession you would like to go back to.

See a couple of lawyers. You don't have to draw up any papers, just let what you learn sink in. It will give you courage and strength.

When you choose which lawyers to speak with, choose the baddest meanest shark lawyers in town. He won't be able to use them should you eventually divorce, because they have already spoken with you, and it will be in their records.

I agree that you need to stop seeing the MC, and continue with your IC. You could tell him to get an IC for himself. It will probably be a waste of money though, since he won't be open with them. When he sees that you are getting stronger and that he is going to lose you he might decide to get honest, but don't count on it.
 
#59 ·
@lala210
I agree that you need to stop seeing the MC, and continue with your IC. You could tell him to get an IC for himself. It will probably be a waste of money though, since he won't be open with them. When he sees that you are getting stronger and that he is going to lose you he might decide to get honest, but don't count on it.
Thank you for your advice. I agree that IC is the way to go for now. I was told by the MC that he is not ready to be truthful about anything and I see that.
 
#56 ·
@lala210 Don't believe for one second that your husband and his affair partner only "made out once." Do you know any adults who have known each other for years and they only make out? What is stopping them from keeping going? Nothing!!! It is not like they are virgins or teenagers.

The next time he claims that they only made out, start laughing and tell him that the next thing he is going to say is that Santa Clause is real and lives with Mrs. Santa Clause at the North Pole with all their elves and reindeer!

Come on, you're not stupid. He is stupid if he thinks that anyone would believe his story.
 
#62 ·
My husband and I have both decided that we are going to do the work to regain trust and we have both agreed that our marriage is worth saving.
You mean YOU have agreed to re-invest in him even though he's proven himself - over and over and over and over and over and over - to be a seasoned liar and cheater. All he's got to do is appease you by appearing to follow whatever rules you've set down - doing time in some therapist's office with you an hour a week and having no activity in his phone or emails and he's in like Flynn and can avoid divorce court. Sweet deal - for HIM.

You want to see a clean phone from him from now on? You'll see one. That's what burner phones are for - so he can still conduct his monkey business on the sly while you're monitoring his 'real' phone. Or, like many serial cheaters (and that's what he IS, Lala), he's probably got hidden chat apps that he uses but you can't see them when you're looking on his phone. It's incredibly easy for cheaters to do what they do and get away with it, now. Unbelievably easy.
I found out that he had made out with her (during our marriage) and for whatever reason it didn't go any further than that. As far as I know now, that is the only time that he physically cheated on me with her, but I am well aware that there is probably more times and I will never really know unless he or she tells me.
You honestly BELIEVE that - from a seasoned liar and serial cheater? That they "only" kissed - which is the number ONE lie all cheaters tell? I mean....really?
Is it unrealistic of me to expect him to set boundaries in this situation because of the close relationship she has with his own family member?
It's unrealistic of you to TRUST that a serial cheater won't cheat on you again. That's what's unrealistic here. You've chosen to ignore all the red flags over the years and this is where it's gotten you - cheated on two times - that you know of - but the numbers are likely A LOT higher. Look, the truth is, you don't catch them every time they cheat on you. Do you honestly think that the "only" two times he's ever cheated on you, you just happened to find out about BOTH of them? Not likely.

This isn't the last time he'll cheat on you. Far from it. But I DO know that he's going to get a lot more slippery in the future so you don't catch him again. Because when you catch him and the rules and boundaries get put into place, you really cramp his style and he has to work SO much harder to get away with the **** he was getting away with before you caught him. So he has a vested interest in not getting caught again and is going to work that much harder to insure he doesn't. But you'll likely mistake that as him suddenly COMPLETELY "changing" and becoming a trustworthy husband. Over the years when I've seen this happen, it always ends up the same - the wife eventually finds out she's been snookered - AGAIN - and he never stopped his secret activities.

He's completely REMORSELESS, Lala. Serial cheaters always are; that's what allows them to keep doing what they do and not giving a rat's ass about who they're hurting in order to do it.

You will catch him again. You'll see.
 
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#63 ·
He's wanting to have his cake and eat it too!

If you're happy with that scenario, then go for it!

Otherwise, I'm confident that you know what the drill is to extract yourself from this lechery!
 
#64 ·
It is not up to you to establish trust with a cheater. It is up to the cheater to establish, over a lengthy period of time, that he has become trustworthy.

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