Talk About Marriage banner
Status
Not open for further replies.
21 - 40 of 53 Posts

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,138 Posts
Counseling - I don't know 100% if my wife is committed to this marriage. The counseling would be for her sake, to find out what is "blocking" her from her emotions to me.
There are usually two reasons for wives to fall out of love with their husbands. The first reason is that they're focusing on other men. The second reason is that their husbands have become less attractive. That usually means not enough alpha behaviors.

It may be something else, but my money is on one, or both, of those reasons.

And, if no other man is involved, don't expect your wife to be able to articulate her reasons for wanting to leave you. Most women truly believe the hype about just needing a husband that is more sensitive, helps more around the house, etc. But the harsh reality is that doing laundry is appreciated, but not attractive. And doing even more laundry will only result in more appreciation, and never any attraction.

Here is a good post from Dalrock on how he changed his behavior and his wife finally felt loved.
She felt unloved. | Dalrock

I am still not sure about dropping the help. Yes, I agree I don't want to be a Nanny BUT, dropping everything I usually do (housework, laundry, etc.) will make things crazy. Maybe I drop some of it, and keep doing other things.
That is reasonable. You want to make sure that you each contribute to the marriage in comparable amounts. If she is spending 50 hours a week on her job and childcare/housework, but you're spending 80 hours a week on your job and domestic duties, then you're out of balance. So you should cut back.

Athol had a good post about hooker math.
Good Beta, Betaized, Butler and Hooker Math | Married Man Sex Life

And I wouldn't count her degree work as a family contribution. If she were planning to use the increased money to contribute to the family, then yes. However, she has stated that she plans to ditch you once she finishes her degree. So the degree is strictly for her benefit alone.

Unbelievable (in another reply) stated Did you promise to love her only on the days she was lovable? Your duty as husband isn't contingent on her performance. Be the best husband and partner you know how to be. I tend to agree with him. I'm not going to be a pushover, but will continue to love her and be a good husband. I'd love your thoughts again. Thanks. GH
First, you can't "nice" a woman into being attracted to you. Over at the MMSL link I posted, Athol Kay uses two broad categories of behavior. Alpha behaviors are attractive. These are earning a good salary, being in shape, dressing well, being assertive, etc. Beta behaviors are comforting. These include helping around the house, being a steady provider, being a good father, supporting your wife in her endeavors, etc.

So, women like a balance. Beta behaviors can be vital to the success of a marriage, as long as you have that alpha edge. If you are too beta with too little alpha, then you are the nanny. This seems to be how your wife sees you. And it is impossible to fix a lack of alpha by ramping up your beta.

Now, if your marriage were going through a 4-week, or even a 4-month funk that promised to be temporary, then I would say to just love her more and power through it. But that's not your situation. Your marriage has been in a 4-year funk. And you wife has told you that she plans to move on without you when she has finished bettering herself.

So, starting four years ago, your wife's 5-year plan seems to have been to work hard, earn a degree, let you be the nanny and do the hard work on the domestic front while she was busy improving her earning potential, then ditch you and hook up with Mr. Plan A. That sounds like a great plan for her. But it's a lousy plan for you. And the way you deal with that is not to reinforce her view of you as Plan B. If she really wants to ditch you, then she can do her own damned laundry and make her own damned breakfast. And she can be the childcare for you when you're out with your friends doing fun and exciting things.

Good luck.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
318 Posts
Re: Husband in the "friend zone" ...Need advice

Originally Posted by phtlump
...

Go to married man sex life | how to have the marriage you thought you were going to have. By which i mean doing it like rabbits. to get more information on how to be sexy.

Good luck.

^ this

mmsl
^ this twice.

Buy the book.

The Married Man Sex Life Primer 2011: Athol Kay: 9781460981733: Amazon.com: Books

You can get the ebook and read it today. In fact, I recommend you do just that, because you are in dire need of the advice in this book. (Amazon has a kindle e-reader for you PC, so you don't need to own a kindle to read their kindle books).

Amazon.com: The Married Man Sex Life Primer 2011 eBook: Athol Kay: Kindle Store

THIS is the advice you were looking for when you started this thread. Take it--NOW!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17,159 Posts
I agree you can't "nice" a woman into being attracted to you. That's not the point. I don't feed my kids because I expect a reward. It's my job. I take care of my wife because that's what I promised to do. I'm a husband every day, not just on the days my wife is pleasant. If anyone examines their marriage in terms of how well their own expectations are being met, everybody's destined for divorce because sooner or later, we all suffer disappointment. When your partner isn't feeling it, that's not the time to pull back and prove their fears correct. It's time to get tough, carry more than your share, and weather the storm. Her "feelings" will come and go. She's a woman and she happens to be under a great deal of stress. Letting her decide when this thing is over is like letting an insane person dictate your life. She's not even capable of making a rational, intelligent life-altering choice at this point.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,138 Posts
I take care of my wife because that's what I promised to do. I'm a husband every day, not just on the days my wife is pleasant.
Yes, but a marriage is still supposed to be a mutually beneficial arrangement. If you're posing a hypothetical about a wife having a bad day, then I absolutely agree that you just grin and bear it. Pick up the slack, and she'll do the same when you're having a bad day.

But the OP's marriage isn't like that. His wife is using him as support until she can leave him. And agreeing to let your wife use you like that isn't in the vows.

If anyone examines their marriage in terms of how well their own expectations are being met, everybody's destined for divorce because sooner or later, we all suffer disappointment.
Again, if you're talking short term, then I agree. If you're talking long-term, I disagree. If you mean that most marriages are long-term disappointments, then you're saying that most marriages are win/lose arrangements. So you should just hope you're lucky enough to be the winner in your marriage, rather than the loser.

I think marriage should be mutually beneficial.

When your partner isn't feeling it, that's not the time to pull back and prove their fears correct. It's time to get tough, carry more than your share, and weather the storm. Her "feelings" will come and go. She's a woman and she happens to be under a great deal of stress. Letting her decide when this thing is over is like letting an insane person dictate your life. She's not even capable of making a rational, intelligent life-altering choice at this point.
Again, I agree if this were a short-term issue. If his wife had PMS and yelled at him I wouldn't suggest pulling away from her. But this has gone on for YEARS. Marriage is not a suicide pact.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,454 Posts
Umm is she the only one with stress? You live in the same house, share a child, have to pay bills, no?

Have you had a chance to express how badly the loss of the job and house has hit your self esteam as a man and provider? Have you looked to her for support and validation? Don't do it. Lean on a friend or IC not her. She does not set your worth you do. I think you should be proud of getting the family through his crisis intact and supporting your wife in her career choice.

If so this may be the main problem. What do you think. This is unfair but she may have lost faith in your ability to care for the family because of the financial problems. She may now feel responsible for the financial success of the family and that is why she is stressing.

It all of this rings true, what do you do? Concentrate on getting your mojo back as a man. The financial downturn kicked our azzes not just you. It is no reflection on you. Easy for me to say but that's how you need to look at it and then forget the past and look forward. Plan and execute.

All you need is a plan for to get on firmer financial ground. A career with a future fur advancement. Go after your dream with confidence.

Your wife. It is possible that the marriage will not survive. Do all you can to get back on track but also prepared mentally to D. I think there is a possibility that she has a man in sight that she thinks has a better financial future than you. It does not hurt to investigate carefully.

Be the best man you can be, you will need that married or D. Look good and get out of the house. Pretend that you are dating and update the wardrobe and hairstyle.

Oh and it's not sex, please don't handle this like a problem with sex. It is much bigger. Solve the big problem and the sex should follow if it doesn't then the marriage is over in her mind no matter what she says.
Posted via Mobile Device
 
  • Like
Reactions: RClawson

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,454 Posts
Expecting you to leave is just so wrong. Why should leave your home? Tell her you will not leave, if she needs time to think your presence should not stop her.

The fact that you even entertain leaving is telling. What have you done that you should lose the comfort of your own home? Let her go to meditate if that her idea its not yours. Besides, She sounds like a strong modern educated woman. I don't think she will get a fit of the vapors if her husband witnesses her contemplating.
Posted via Mobile Device
 
  • Like
Reactions: Buddy400

·
Registered
Joined
·
856 Posts
@ tryingtobebetter - Thanks, you gave some solid advice. I know I can go either way (180 or nice guy)

I'm praying on this and trying to understand what to do. But, besides being supportive and being myself, is there anything I really can do? It's ultimately HER decision to work at the marriage or to step away. Any thoughts?

Also, I will ask her to take the 5 love languages test online. I think that would be revealing to me as to what she really needs.

Thanks so much!
You are absolutely right that you cannot make her decision for her. I think you have had a lot of useful exposure on this website to ideas which may be helpful. It is a great site for that.

It is interesting that she says she does not know how to work at her marriage and that she comes from an unhappy home. If you came from a happier home you can say to her that you do know how to as a result of observing your parents. A key ingredient is perseverence.

If I were you, I think I would:

Make it clear you want your marriage to succeed. Saying this once very clearly should be enough.

Do not be needy - if you have to, you can live without her

Support her as before but be 'manly' about it

Read up for different ideas how to address the problem to work out which ones will work best for you

Take pride in what you have achieved. It is not your fault that the bankers wrecked the economy. There have been many innocent victims.

Good luck
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
Discussion Starter · #30 ·
@ Unbelievable - Thanks. You hit the nail on the head. We are on the same page. I agree with almost everything you said in the last post. ESPECIALLY when you said this -

"When your partner isn't feeling it, that's not the time to pull back and prove their fears correct. It's time to get tough, carry more than your share, and weather the storm. Her "feelings" will come and go. She's a woman and she happens to be under a great deal of stress. Letting her decide when this thing is over is like letting an insane person dictate your life. She's not even capable of making a rational, intelligent life-altering choice at this point."

So, true. But this has been 4 years, not 4 months. The truth is, I HAVE carried more than my share, I HAVE been there for her and supported her. I've sacrificed intimacy and picked up the slack around the house and in other ways. I hope and pray that after her classes are complete and her plate is clean, that we CAN talk and she can make a Rational, intelligent decision. We've been together for 10 years....I wonder if she can imagine her life w/o me as a husband? My question to you(and I appreciate your opinion) - How long do I carry this cross without affection, effort, attention, etc. from her? I've sacrificed a lot, and I need a wife...not just a friend. It's been over 4 years, not 4 months. "Rebuilding" intimacy, touch, financial security, etc. will take some time....how much time do I give this? I love her and need Love FROM her immediately. Thanks my friend. GH
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
Discussion Starter · #31 ·
@ Catherine602 - Thank you! You gave great insight. Would love your thoughts on more...

This is true what you said here -
"This is unfair but she may have lost faith in your ability to care for the family because of the financial problems. She may now feel responsible for the financial success of the family and that is why she is stressing."

She may be stressing...I can try to show her that I am working hard and providing for the family, but she has to think that and understand that herself. But, yes, I need to get my fin. mojo back as a man. Great point. I make a decent salary but could make more.

"Plan and execute."

Exactly. But, I can't make her feel comfortable or feel secure or I can't MAKE her love me and show affection to me. She has to WANT to do this herself. Right? This is where I am struggling. I'm trying to do things and she isn't seeing it.

"All you need is a plan for to get on firmer financial ground. A career with a future fur advancement. Go after your dream with confidence."

Amen - This is it. I need to lay my plan out to her. Most importantly, she has to BUY in and trust in me.

"Be the best man you can be, you will need that married or D. Look good and get out of the house. Pretend that you are dating and update the wardrobe and hairstyle."

Thanks. Again, Great advice. I do OKAY on the wardrobe but need to get rid of some old threads. Usually a golf shirt and shorts...but I like your point. I'm starting to work out again, running and lifting. I'm at 215, trying to get to 200 lbs.

"Oh and it's not sex, please don't handle this like a problem with sex. It is much bigger."

We haven't been intimate for a LONG time. So, there is no sex now anyway. There hasn't been much for the last 4 years.(when my son was born) Needless to say, this has been close to impossible for me but I've remained faithful.

That's why I think it's a bigger issue than financial, or my job or losing a house. I think she needs counseling and/or medication as she has had this emotional/physical block up for 4 years. Thoughts? Thanks so much! GH
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
Discussion Starter · #32 ·
@PHTlump...I'd appreciate your thoughts on this also. Thanks a million!

@ Catherine602 - Thank you! You gave great insight. Would love your thoughts on more...

This is true what you said here -
"This is unfair but she may have lost faith in your ability to care for the family because of the financial problems. She may now feel responsible for the financial success of the family and that is why she is stressing."

She may be stressing...I can try to show her that I am working hard and providing for the family, but she has to think that and understand that herself. But, yes, I need to get my fin. mojo back as a man. Great point. I make a decent salary but could make more.

"Plan and execute."

Exactly. But, I can't make her feel comfortable or feel secure or I can't MAKE her love me and show affection to me. She has to WANT to do this herself. Right? This is where I am struggling. I'm trying to do things and she isn't seeing it.

"All you need is a plan for to get on firmer financial ground. A career with a future fur advancement. Go after your dream with confidence."

Amen - This is it. I need to lay my plan out to her. Most importantly, she has to BUY in and trust in me.

"Be the best man you can be, you will need that married or D. Look good and get out of the house. Pretend that you are dating and update the wardrobe and hairstyle."

Thanks. Again, Great advice. I do OKAY on the wardrobe but need to get rid of some old threads. Usually a golf shirt and shorts...but I like your point. I'm starting to work out again, running and lifting. I'm at 215, trying to get to 200 lbs.

"Oh and it's not sex, please don't handle this like a problem with sex. It is much bigger."

We haven't been intimate for a LONG time. So, there is no sex now anyway. There hasn't been much for the last 4 years.(when my son was born) Needless to say, this has been close to impossible for me but I've remained faithful.

That's why I think it's a bigger issue than financial, or my job or losing a house. I think she needs counseling and/or medication as she has had this emotional/physical block up for 4 years. Thoughts? Thanks so much! GH
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,234 Posts
Re: Husband in the "friend zone" ...Need advice

There is no OM. She comes home straight after work and is too overwhelmed with school work to go out at night or on the weekends.
If you read threads in the infidelity section, almost 100% of those with cheating spouses have made such a statement when they first lost intimacy with their spouses. They were all proven wrong. The vast majority of the time, the affair partner usually ends up being someone that they knew from school or work. Not saying that she is cheating, but I am saying that it is a very real possibility.

If she is cheating, odds are that you would not know or even suspect. 80% of all affairs go completely undetected by the spouse. Even if the affair leads to divorce, the spouse never finds out.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,138 Posts
She may be stressing...I can try to show her that I am working hard and providing for the family, but she has to think that and understand that herself. But, yes, I need to get my fin. mojo back as a man. Great point. I make a decent salary but could make more.
Don't get hung up on the specifics. Yes, she will have to perceive your effort and equate that to being a better provider. But, some of that is unconscious. If she just sees that you're busier, taking a class, getting some training, or picking up side jobs/overtime, she will make the connection of more money coming from you. Don't think result first. Think process first.

But, I can't make her feel comfortable or feel secure or I can't MAKE her love me and show affection to me. She has to WANT to do this herself. Right? This is where I am struggling. I'm trying to do things and she isn't seeing it.
No, you can't make her do anything. But this isn't about making her do something. This is about offering her something. This is about you being an attractive option.

Right now, she doesn't see you as attractive. She is either fantasizing about a particular man, or just a generic man. She thinks she can do better. So you need to offer her the option of doing better with you.

Honestly, at this point, action is the key for you. Just start doing things. They need to be productive. But, they don't have to be earth shattering. You don't need to reverse the decline of the last 4 years in the next month. You can't do it. You can't turn a battleship on a dime. You just need to get it started in the right direction. So just get something started. Make sure she knows about it. Then, add something else. She will notice. She may not buy in to the new you. But, she will notice. And that's all you can do.

And don't be desperate.

Good luck.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,454 Posts
PHT beat me to it. I agree whole heartedly. Don't go to her for approval about your plans. Carry out your well thought out plans and inform her that you are going to take a class or what ever and arrange the logistics in terms of time.

She will not be impressed if you tell her about your plans and look for her approval. She may feel that you have not thought it out and she is responsible to guide you.

It may be difficult for you to have faith that your plans will work out. The job loss and foreclosure can sap anyone's confidence. Sucess will make you confident again.

As far as making more money, do it because it makes you feel good as a provider and satisfies your competitive nature. I wouldn't do it to impress your wife.

Again she may feel that she needs to worry about your sucess. Advance and then invite her to celebrate if indeed your relationship works out.

Do you think that you can change to the degree that you are the man you were when you first met your wife? The key is not to go to her for approval.

In fact, i think you would do better to expect little from her. You won't be disappointed when she does not react the way you expect.

The weight loss and exercise is great.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,133 Posts
The sad truth is you can't nice her into loving you. This life she's in she chose. She must own her unhappiness and if she's overwhelmed that's on her to downsize or ask for help. She takes you for granted and she has lost respect for you.

The best thing you can do is the opposite of what you are doing now. What you are doing is pushing her further away. When she says she needs space agree with her and ask her when is SHE moving out? Do NOT leave your home. Stop doing her laundry, stop with all the nice stuff is she meeting your needs? No then stop meeting hers. She has said she's not attracted to you so let her go. Get a life, a hobby, some friends, join the gym, get a better job, something, focus on you because she's done and has been for years. She just hasn't made it official yet.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17,159 Posts
How long do you suck it up? If her being "overwhelmed" is related to her working and going to school, I'd bear it at least until I could figure out where her head and heart were without the contaminating influence of exhaustion and stress. The only way to do that is to tough it out until after she graduates. A whole lot has happened with you two in a short period of time. You've lost a job, a house, apparently got another job, she started a demanded college course. It's amazing she's not a blithering idiot. You might as well say her condition right now is almost as debilitating as a mental illness. If her behavior was due to an actual diagnosed illness, would you leave? During your wedding, you probably mumbled something about sickness and in health, better or worse, richer, poorer, etc.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
318 Posts
Re: Husband in the "friend zone" ...Need advice

She has been overwhelmed with work, taking classes, lack of sleep, managing life, etc. for the last 3 years.
If she's overwhelmed, then it's time to simplify her life and drop some things.

Despite the popular "you can have it all" drumbeat, you really can't have it all. At some point you have to set priorities and decide what is important in life, and what you are going to have to drop.

Sleep, btw, is not one of the things you can do without. She should set aside 9 hours every night for sleep (yes 9).

She may need to choose between working and taking classes. If she chooses classes, that might mean you have to downgrade your lifestyle--smaller home, not extras like cable TV, and shopping at Goodwill instead of the mall.

Or, she might decide that getting ahead in her career isn't worth the sacrifice it would take now.

Overwhelmed is another word for "doing too much."

Right now, it sounds like she is sacrificing her family so she can "have it all."
 
21 - 40 of 53 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top