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Discussion Starter #161
Limerence is absolutely the best way to describe her - the parts like rewriting our marriage history is probably the #1 thing that baffles me how a mind can do that

I know now, my wife that I loved so much is gone. Her love for me, is gone. I made a decision and said no more. Its really as simple as that and my logical, reasonable mind knows that. I have a massive fear of lonely, and I'd rather die than be alone the rest of my life sometimes I think. I used to be scared of death, no longer.

That's for the 11 pages - really, it DOES matter to hear others having similar situations.

I joined a divorce support group at a church last week. I am thinking about my future, my job and where I might want to live and options. I'm going to spend spring and summer fixing up my house. I'm going to focus on my 18 year old son the next 4 months through his last 1/2 of his Sr year in high school
 

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Limerence is absolutely the best way to describe her - the parts like rewriting our marriage history is probably the #1 thing that baffles me how a mind can do that

I know now, my wife that I loved so much is gone. Her love for me, is gone. I made a decision and said no more. Its really as simple as that and my logical, reasonable mind knows that. I have a massive fear of lonely, and I'd rather die than be alone the rest of my life sometimes I think. I used to be scared of death, no longer.

That's for the 11 pages - really, it DOES matter to hear others having similar situations.

I joined a divorce support group at a church last week. I am thinking about my future, my job and where I might want to live and options. I'm going to spend spring and summer fixing up my house. I'm going to focus on my 18 year old son the next 4 months through his last 1/2 of his Sr year in high school
Chuck gave to some similar threads to read, and the reason you may not get responses you desire is they also are trying to get over it! But the one l am reading current at the moment from truth22 he's in Vegas and she's in Cali he also wants his old life back.

Your joining a support group is a good first move, and it's great that you will choose somewhere new, and with the last remaining days of high school. Your doing as we all do put one step in front of the other.
 

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But the reason you may not get reply so is because it triggers their memory, and they know why would they want to relive the pain they have come so far trying to get over it, and us the hurt and wounded are here trying to be of assistance in the only way we can. Or if some do the respond they can be jaded and may feel somewhat uncaring but its the only way to be upfront and direct.

Now as others if you stay you can offer what you think will be in there best interest like truth22 in the thread Vegas to Cali.
 

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The threads I sent were road maps to success and how to deal with a BSC spouse. I went back and re-read

each one of these once over the past 3-4 years. I always look for the positivity. Plus the occasional sports

banter and joking. Also you see some who try to get out of their situation and.....slide right back into it.

I was re-reading ReGroup's thread in the summer '15 and really noticed how Mav spoke of setting

boundaries with your parents. Right about the time I was finished with the re-read, mom had a heart attack.

But what got her was dementia. She went from a great mom to a complete biotch.

Re-reading that thread helped me in so many ways. But you have a point.... if you are still jaded it is

a hard read. In my case I was over her before the D was final.
 

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"In fact, I brought out cards and notes and letters she'd written me that were beautiful, facebook posts that showed her love and she simply says that her heart wasn't in it. Example - she posted this two days before her Dad died 2013

"18 years ago today, Dad walked me down the aisle and gave me away to an outstanding man. For 18 years (half my life) I have been privileged to share my life and to be tolerated and loved by a devoted, funny, loyal, loving, TRUTHFUL, person. The only things I think I would go back and change, are many of my own selfish actions. However, I can look back on even some of my negative choices and see where growth has happened for the both of us. It is true that I do feel more love toward you at this moment than I ever have. Your support and love through the darkest time of my life has buoyed me and carried me along day by day. I look forward to your goofy ways of trying to make me laugh when I'm crying, and I know that I could not smile without it. Thank you for these years, and for the promise of more. Thank you for filling my life with family. My love always and forever is yours alone."


a couple weeks back I asked her about it and she said " 2 days before Dad died, my foot was broken. You did really good caring for all of us during that time"

even words she wrote down she cannot admit - we had a great life, great love .... she changed. Period.
I have a different view. I don't think she re-wrote marital history at all.

When you're an abused kid, you try to follow the rules and do the right thing very hard, perhaps much harder than those who haven't been abused. You also want, above all else, safety and security.

I think you were her safety and security. She followed the "rules" and, as an early adult, properly married a good man just the way she was supposed to. You gave her love and you provided her with the safety and security she craved. The problem seems to be that she loved you for the kind of man you are and what you gave her, but not in the way a wife loves a husband. I think, reading between the lines of her post, that she wanted to love you the way a wife loves a husband, and she tried to love you the way a wife loves a husband, but just...couldn't.

Once her father died, she was faced with her own mortality and, without Dad to make proud or disappoint, following the rules became less important. I theorize she thought about her life, her marriage, and came to the conclusion something was missing. And it was. She loved you, but was never in love with you. So, she decided to attempt to experience what she'd been missing out on all these years. Instead of doing what was "best" or "right", she decided to do what she wanted instead.

After that, well, you were started on the road you travel now.

Does she miss you from time to time? Probably. After over 20 years, I'd miss even an enemy.
 

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"Yeah they're old but dynamics....all the same"

the dynamics are the same .... it is very interesting to see that

every situation is unique in ways but the similarities are many and not coincidental



so the question ... why do people (women in my case) destroy 15 or 20 or 25 years of what they've built? truly a mental disorder or just a complete personality change or ?? what cause the cracks and the breaks? I'll never know.
We are all under attack.
Women disproportionately file for the majority of divorces. Women are also targeted more than men.

Although many choose not to recognize, or accept, how dating sets in motion a setup for future disappointment, as compared to courting.
 

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Discussion Starter #167
MJJEAN

"but not in the way a wife loves a husband."


I'll just say this. I have boxes of cards, letters and notes I wrote her and she wrote me. Many facebook posts showing her love for me. Not a single person that knows us would ever have said she wasn't in love with me, and I've asked many just in case she was trying to tell me and I just didn't see it

I told my Mom and Dad everything a week ago. He's 85, she's 75 and they've been 55 years married. A couple days later my Mom asks if I was sure she cheated or just thought it. I said of course I know and she says yeah but do you REALLY know? Because your wife would never ever do that. They cannot accept it, because she's not that kind of woman.

I found a notebook today that she'd written prayers in, 2013 before her Dad died. They were prayers for our kids, for me, for my job, for her Dad and for herself. She didn't mention in any of it that she was hating our marriage or really unhappy etc.

Understand I'm closer to her Mom, sister, brother and her best friends than she is. They all support me and are baffled at her.


So ... knowing it all? I have no doubt she loved me deeply until after her Dad died. When she slipped into that deep depression she fell into, nobody could reach her and she wouldn't go counseling. She started drinking a lot, maybe a bottle of wine or more a night, whiskey during periods. When she came out of the depression and started college, she changed. Dramatically, into who she is right now. Someone nobody likes, not even her son :(


I'm afraid for her. For her drinking. I hope she don't run around bar whoring. She's devalued herself. She has no self respect. I'll never take her back even if a small piece of me wants to. I will help her any way I can without being used/manipulated, much like I've helped other people in the past.


But I've thought it hard for 9 months .... she did love me deeply. She found a way to unbind from me and go with a 21 year old kid. I don't know how, I'll never know how. My love runs differently that that :(

in some situations like this what you said might be true, but in this case? I don't think so
 

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In August '12 we had our together ann. not the M ann. A note filled with love, happiness....just like yours

Arkansas. FF less than 90 days and we had DDay. After she left the house when D was final, I was cleaning

up the mess she left and I found it. Sort of made me laugh.

The deal is....some people have so much hurt and anger inside them. They have no clue how to deal

with it, process it, or even talk about it. It has to go......somewhere. And that's where

you come in. Who else is she going to do this to?

In my case, my XW/W at time lost her dad about a year before we met, her mom about ten years after

we met, her one decent brother to prison about a year before her mom passed, and her son.

Her son devolved into a complete thug and she was forced to kick him out. He was 21 at the time.

About two years later....we were through. I knew she was regressing but she shut me out.

Most days she would hide it to the point she seemed to be coming out of her shell. Short lived.

On DDay everything was my fault. I shoulda done this, shoulda done that... This continued up until we filed

for D and the first half of our 60 day wait. She was on one of her rants and I asked her if she worked for

a travel company. Confused she said no and I replied with 'Well it sounds as if you're trying to send me

on a guilt trip.'

You spent 20+ years with her....part of you will always love her. In 24 years, she made you feel wonderful

for about 22 of them, just not the last couple. But you remember who she WAS, not who she IS.

They are two distinctly different people. She is an adult, no need in trying to help her after D.

She found it easy to cheat with a guy near her own son's age, she is perfectly capable of seeking out therapy.
 

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yes, she set him and her up on a couple of dates :(


Chuck71 good words, I'm reading them, listening to what people are saying ... its a tough thing none the less. Alone is the biggest fear in the world for me and I'll have to figure it out. I process things pretty fast, one I get my mind around it. I'm figuring this out, I have some support people ..... I'll survive.

Some days ... its just really hard and tough
I still cannot get my head round this!!! Did she set him up on a couple of dates with your daughter after she started screwing him ?!? How does your daughter feel about this ???
 

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Discussion Starter #170
for about 22 of them, just not the last couple. But you remember who she WAS, not who she IS.

They are two distinctly different people. She is an adult, no need in trying to help her after D.

She found it easy to cheat with a guy near her own son's age, she is perfectly capable of seeking out therapy.

all the above is absolutely true and my logical and reasonable self knows it ... fully understanding and detaching / unbinding myself from 24 years of marriage makes it a bit hard some days


I still cannot get my head round this!!! Did she set him up on a couple of dates with your daughter after she started screwing him ?!? How does your daughter feel about this ???

If I had to guess the timeline ... my wife started becoming emotionally attached, her limerence had began and she saw this kid as wonderful and wanted my daughter to see it equally. After my daughter said no (she told me the kid freaked her out a bit) then my wife decided in some weird way to go for it herself I guess ?

At that point, my wife started using the hope of getting the two of them together as a smoke screen. I don't know if that was originally it or not. I'll never know.




There is truth in that it always seems to come back to me. If I had 100 things a man is supposed to do, I did 95 of them, 96 maybe .... and the 3-5 things I didn't do ? I wasn't aware I wasn't doing and had I known I'd have changed.

She'll never see that - but everyone else does. That's why her family and her friends are still my family and friends. So in my heart I KNOW it wasn't me, no matter how much she tries to pin it because nobody else see's it that way either

I take some comfort in that , because it would crush me if I knew the destruction of this marriage was on me. Its not - its on her and she doesn't feel crushed and with that knowledge I know Divorce is my only option.


I'm way better today than even 10 days ago. I have removed 95% of her things from this house, packed and in the garage. She better not delay this divorce, I do not have to be nice forever
 

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There is truth in that it always seems to come back to me. If I had 100 things a man is supposed to do, I did 95 of them, 96 maybe .... and the 3-5 things I didn't do ? I wasn't aware I wasn't doing and had I known I'd have changed.
No. Just no. If you had done those five things and more, it would not have changed a thing. She would simply make up more excuses. This has nothing to do with what you did or did not do. This has everything to do with her dysfunction.
 

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You will have hard days, normal 110%. Hell I did and I knew we were beyond done.

They will decrease with time. What scared me was 1st's....1st Christmas, T'Giving, when we were

a couple, getting M. Over 90% of WSs try to come back. But the difference is most wish to "on THEIR

terms." They want you to rugsweep everything and go back to the "pre-adultery" days.

Some even act remorseful but for only a short period, then scream bloody murder when you just can't

get past it "on their timetable." And some go as far as "banging you back" for six-nine months and this

is followed by a repeat version of the torment (cheating) they inflicted in the past.

There is no "me" in a M. Somewhere along the way, she forgot that.
 

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No. Just no. If you had done those five things and more, it would not have changed a thing. She would simply make up more excuses. This has nothing to do with what you did or did not do. This has everything to do with her dysfunction.
Spot on! These are termed as "covert contracts." You could leave the lid off of the toothpaste

and they would turn it into WW3. In my DDay time....my STBXW berated me for being selfish.

When only four months prior lauded me in a local paper for being the greatest SiL to her mom and step-dad

to her son. But that's how damaged people think.
 

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The written word isn't worth anything. My ex could pen the most loving and romantic cards and notes while deep in the throes of an affair.

Broken people have ways of writing what they think you want to hear, and the things they want to mean. They convince themselves they really mean it at the moment of writing it. And they probably do. Then they head out and **** someone else, and mean everything they tell that person too.
 

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Discussion Starter #175
No. Just no. If you had done those five things and more, it would not have changed a thing. She would simply make up more excuses. This has nothing to do with what you did or did not do. This has everything to do with her dysfunction.
Today ... she sent her sister a text. Hasn't spoken to her in 9 months and in that text she said she loved her sister, but needed to live a life without her in it. Also, she said 2 weeks of deep God/prayer and God answered "I am enough" and she knows divorce is a good thing.

But the kicker? she told her sister (I am still close with her sister) that she hopes one day our two kids (20 and 18) can see how courageous she's been because of the detrimental abuse she's suffered

Ok, that breaches it for me. I've NEVER abused her in any way. Ever. She even wrote in the email to her friend "he has never abused me" .... and for 7 months of counseling? never mentioned any emotional abuse. I asked her sister, my brother and my best friend ... no, they all said NO you never abused her

She has cracked. Its bi-polar, its something of a mental disorder, something, that allows her to self justify her actions. In that text to her sister today, no apology, no owning what she did, nothing.

and with that information, I can let it completely go now. She is dead, the woman I loved, replaced with this hateful, mean, selfish, vindictive person that only for a few more weeks I hope is my wife. I need this divorce done so I can move on and I'm ready. I loved that woman with all my heart and soul ... and she is gone


that she's stopped this low ... wow, just wow
 

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Today ... she sent her sister a text. Hasn't spoken to her in 9 months and in that text she said she loved her sister, but needed to live a life without her in it. Also, she said 2 weeks of deep God/prayer and God answered "I am enough" and she knows divorce is a good thing.

But the kicker? she told her sister (I am still close with her sister) that she hopes one day our two kids (20 and 18) can see how courageous she's been because of the detrimental abuse she's suffered

Ok, that breaches it for me. I've NEVER abused her in any way. Ever. She even wrote in the email to her friend "he has never abused me" .... and for 7 months of counseling? never mentioned any emotional abuse. I asked her sister, my brother and my best friend ... no, they all said NO you never abused her

She has cracked. Its bi-polar, its something of a mental disorder, something, that allows her to self justify her actions. In that text to her sister today, no apology, no owning what she did, nothing.

and with that information, I can let it completely go now. She is dead, the woman I loved, replaced with this hateful, mean, selfish, vindictive person that only for a few more weeks I hope is my wife. I need this divorce done so I can move on and I'm ready. I loved that woman with all my heart and soul ... and she is gone


that she's stopped this low ... wow, just wow
Watch what she DOES, not what she SAYS.

She is referring to her childhood, not you.

Exactly the reason I sent you those threads. Same attack, different date.
 

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Discussion Starter #177
Watch what she DOES, not what she SAYS.

She is referring to her childhood, not you.

Exactly the reason I sent you those threads. Same attack, different date.
she was pretty clear it was ME that abused her. I don't really care if she's channeling her deepest fears and making me the bad guy, its an attack on my core self and I have a very hard time with that because I have built my life on being a good man


I absorbed the cheating and the way she did it. I self analyzed the things she said in counseling (like communication or listening etc). I suffered through the continued cheating, the exceptionally painful recordings, the horribly damaging email she sent ... even her saying in Nov she still had a lot in her heart for the kid she cheated on. I'd STILL have worked on the marriage ...

but her lying about me abusing her? see, that is a character attack and there is one thing nobody can take from me, and that's how I am as a man. I am high character, I'm trustworthy, honest, I don't lie, I'm a good man and for her to say I abused her? that is something that tells me she's truly cracked and her mind is unhealthy

NOBODY would say that about me - ever - that's never ever who I've been



I want this divorce done ASAP, I want her out of my life. If I wrote on a piece of paper her qualities, who she is right now ..... I wouldn't want her in my life and truth is, she wouldn't want such a person in her life either.
 

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"But the kicker? she told her sister (I am still close with her sister) that she hopes one day our two kids (20 and 18) can see how courageous she's been because of the detrimental abuse she's suffered"


LOL! oh so sorry but LOL! you may be amazed by this but it is all part of the cheaters handbook, when someone mentioned the rewriting of the marital history, this is the kind of crap they are talking about. I laugh because I know you want to, and will some day, but cant today..... I laugh for you, not at you, or about your situation. They will always be the victim, I remember when my xw did the exact thing! Was I pissed!! I couldnt laugh about it then, but I can now.

Keep looking forward, way to much crazy going on behind you to look back.

Hoosier
 

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she was pretty clear it was ME that abused her. I don't really care if she's channeling her deepest fears and making me the bad guy, its an attack on my core self and I have a very hard time with that because I have built my life on being a good man


I absorbed the cheating and the way she did it. I self analyzed the things she said in counseling (like communication or listening etc). I suffered through the continued cheating, the exceptionally painful recordings, the horribly damaging email she sent ... even her saying in Nov she still had a lot in her heart for the kid she cheated on. I'd STILL have worked on the marriage ...

but her lying about me abusing her? see, that is a character attack and there is one thing nobody can take from me, and that's how I am as a man. I am high character, I'm trustworthy, honest, I don't lie, I'm a good man and for her to say I abused her? that is something that tells me she's truly cracked and her mind is unhealthy

NOBODY would say that about me - ever - that's never ever who I've been



I want this divorce done ASAP, I want her out of my life. If I wrote on a piece of paper her qualities, who she is right now ..... I wouldn't want her in my life and truth is, she wouldn't want such a person in her life either.
You are being blamed for everything in which has happened to her. You are being blamed for things

that occurred before you met her. Perfect example of re-writing history to suit her perception.
 

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Arkansas I'm sorry you have had to endure all this.

Like Cynthia said above, you did NOTHING to deserve what your WW did to you. The cold hard fact of life, that I have learned anyways, is that some people just fly off the rails. Sometimes it is due to a mental break (which I think is what happened to your WW) or sometimes a person just goes bad. People do just go bad sometimes. It is one of the mysteries of the human condition, and there is no good answer for it. So don't torture yourself trying to figure out why. There will never be a solid reason for it. Mourn the loss of the marriage and move on.
 
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