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I think that nothing will come of the impeachment either not being done or being shot down in the senate.

Ultimately, all of it from both sides will further the divide in the country and the next election will continue to do the same. Trump is abhorrent to the left and the right thinks everything center to left is 'extreme'.

People will continue to stay divided, the gaps will widen, and the rhetoric will become more toxic. The haves will continue to have, and the have nots will have less. All as we progress towards an eventual upheaval.

Any rational candidate from the left is demonized by the right and Trump will continue to play on the fears of the average American. Unless the youth and ethnic votes show up, Trump will win, because his base is a rabid group.
Well I'm not rabid. I'm not even a party member on either side.

I have seen a lot of violent and rabid behavior in opposition though.
 

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Well I'm not rabid. I'm not even a party member on either side.

I have seen a lot of violent and rabid behavior in opposition though.
Did I say violent? Rabid - having or proceeding from an extreme or fanatical support of or belief in something.

Did I say every person that wants to vote for Trump is rabid? Did I say, if you vote for Trump, you are part of his base?

If the shoe doesn't fit, don't put it on, but that doesn't mean the shoe doesn't fit someone else.
 

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Did I say violent? Rabid - having or proceeding from an extreme or fanatical support of or belief in something.

Did I say every person that wants to vote for Trump is rabid? Did I say, if you vote for Trump, you are part of his base?

If the shoe doesn't fit, don't put it on, but that doesn't mean the shoe doesn't fit someone else.
Ok. Relax. I'm a fairly new viewer of political jargon and didn't understand the nit pik about supporter vs. base and rabid definitely applies to much of the opposition in my view.
 

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Imagine if Trump put as much effort into defending the constitution and enacting positive policies as he did doing the stuff that is likely leading to impeachment...
Hmmmm...just signed into law animal cruelty is a federal offense. Just signed in a task force to investigate missing and murdered Native American Indians. And the list continues with new or extended laws under his signature:

Elder Abuse Prevention and Prosecution Act
Countering America's Adversaries Through Sanctions Act
"Department of Veterans Affairs Accountability and Whistleblower Protection Act of 2017"
SAFER Act of 2017
No Human Trafficking on Our Roads Act

Find the rest here:
https://www.cnn.com/2017/06/29/politics/president-trump-legislation/index.html
 

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Trump will not be removed from office by impeachment because this will only be an exercise in the House. The Senate (by rules, I think) will take up the impeachment and not find Trump guilty of high crimes but may simply reprimand him for inappropriately delaying funds to Ukraine.

The exercise will damage Trump’s chances for re-election.


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I concur, Trump will not be removed. Censured yes.
 

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What they say and how they vote are two different things. And I am not just talking about the Supreme Court. ALL the Federal Judgeships are in play. Right now Roberts is the Swing Vote. But if Ruth Bader Ginzburg kicks off, well, like I say, the Progressives are toast. If this not true, why did the Dems fight so hard on the last nominee? Don't kid yourself, the Dems know their policies are in deep doo-doo. Hell, even Obama has lambasted the Dem candidates for being too liberal. He knows Socialism won't sell. This is going to be a re-run of the '72 election. The only person who would have a chance beating Trump is Michelle Obama, and she says she ain't running.


? What does this mean we don’t have conservative or liberal judges, we just have judges that protect the constitution as the third and co-equal branch. What do you assume the judiciary will do?


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So I'm going to take a quick foray into the politics forum just to make an observation...while avoiding political opinions to stay true to my word about such... LOL.

We've seen similar apocalyptic statements at the end of Clinton...Bush...and Obama.

Pundits opine that it is the end of the party that just got swept.

I have a slightly more cynical view.

I don't think it matters whether it's Democrats or Republicans...by the end of either party having power for a significant amount of time, Americans (at least the non-partisan ones) have grown tired of politicians **** and are ready for a change.


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Hey, we're being asked to read a crystal ball here.

I do think the GOP is going to have a very tough time in the coming years. Cancel culture is a thing, and I think the GOP is going to get somewhat cancelled by fed-up millennials. It is impossible to say that Trump didn't use the foreign aid and meetings with Ukraine for his own political gain. To say otherwise is to discard reality, or be forced to acknowledge that reality doesn't matter, or be forced to say that it is OK for a president to use tax dollars and his office for personal gain - which is where this will land when he is found not guilty in the senate. And then, de-facto, this is legal, normal, and will be used by other nation states like China, Russia, and whoever openly.

I also think Fox is already DOA. One thing that fascinates me about America is it's ability to navel gaze it's way into near-oblivion, and then suddenly course correct. It confuses much of the western world. But I do think that part of this course correction will be a resumption of having facts matter. You might say that democrats do it to, or worse, or whatever - but there's no denying that both Trump and Fox have a proven track record of openly lying, openly distorting, and not caring about facts at all. Their brand is going to be problematic - so problematic that everyone involved will be in damage control for a generation.

America will course correct, but it does need to decide if they are Americans first, or Progressives and Conservatives first. It needs to decide if it's looking forward, or looking backward - the literal definition of progressive and conservative. And it does need to decide if it's going to live in reality or not. And history says that xenophobic, mythology based cultures like pre-Meji Japan just don't work in a hyper-connected world. So, eventually, reality will win. Eventually, America will decide what it's going to be, but that decision will be based on reality - simply because long-term, it must.

These forces are inevitable.

And, American culture is now being influenced almost as much by the rest of the world as it is by itself. The primary American export used to be it's culture. That very culture is increasingly being discarded by the rest of the world, along with the mythology that America leads the free world, or even is capable of leading itself anywhere. But eventually, it will learn to lead itself again - because it must.

And again, your government is now fully and publicly open to foreign influence directly in it's election process. This cuts at the heart of an already wobbly democracy with fundamental flaws like the electoral college, gerrymandering, and serious religious and political mismanagement in it's education system. So, increasingly, the rest of the world will help America decides who leads it - based on what benefits the rest of the world.

It is fascinating that is an outcome from an 'America' first president. "Better Russian than Democrat," indeed.

It will be fascinating to watch it play out.

I'll leave this with two quotes:

"If you want to know how things really work, study them when they're coming apart." - William Gibson
American democracy, culture, and identity is coming apart at the seams. We're now seeing how it truly works.

"You can always count on Americans to do the right thing - after they've tried everything else." - Winston Churchill
America is rapidly exhausting the problem space of doing the wrong things for the wrong reasons based on purposeful falsehoods and infighting. Eventually, it will have to do the right thing, because math, and reality, always wins.

Trump's math doesn't work. Fox's reality doesn't exist. Therefore both will be relegated eventually to the dustbin and cautionary tales of history. Whether that's 2020, 2050, or 2100, it is inevitable.
 

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I concur, Trump will not be removed. Censured yes.


He will not be censured, he will be acquitted by the senate that simply states he was a “bad boy” for not releasing the funds earlier, wink and nod.


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? What does this mean we don’t have conservative or liberal judges, we just have judges that protect the constitution as the third and co-equal branch. What do you assume the judiciary will do?


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Eventually the judiciary will need to decide if America is a country ruled by law or ruled by ideology. Because if it's ruled by law, the judge's ideology should matter far less than it currently does.
 

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Hmmmm...just signed into law animal cruelty is a federal offense. Just signed in a task force to investigate missing and murdered Native American Indians. And the list continues with new or extended laws under his signature:

Elder Abuse Prevention and Prosecution Act
Countering America's Adversaries Through Sanctions Act
"Department of Veterans Affairs Accountability and Whistleblower Protection Act of 2017"
SAFER Act of 2017
No Human Trafficking on Our Roads Act

Find the rest here:
https://www.cnn.com/2017/06/29/politics/president-trump-legislation/index.html
Were those his base platform when elected? No.

What was his biggest rallying cry? "Build the wall, and Mexico will pay for it."

Is there a wall? No. Did Mexico pay for it? No. The wall was a lie.
 

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Eventually the judiciary will need to decide if America is a country ruled by law or ruled by ideology. Because if it's ruled by law, the judge's ideology should matter far less than it currently does.


From what I’ve seen of the judiciary branch thus far, it is ruled by the tenants of the constitution. From the other two branches, no doubt partisanship has taken hold.

I think those that are voting for the hope of partisan judges, they will be disappointed in the long run.


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Were those his base platform when elected? No.

What was his biggest rallying cry? "Build the wall, and Mexico will pay for it."

Is there a wall? No. Did Mexico pay for it? No. The wall was a lie.
Does it matter these were his base platform during the elections? Does he simply ignore other issues because these were not what he ran on? A plethora of signature legislation and all you got for me is the wall? Last time I checked on the wall, the entire Congressional body was against the wall in all forms. The media backed it up. I do not see this as a lie, Mexico paying for it. It was a simple come-on and I viewed it as such. Presidents before Trump used the come-on. And to be sure the biggest rally cry was and still is, "Make America Great Again."

Anyway, the wall is underconstruction

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/08/us/border-wall-texas.html
 

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From what I’ve seen of the judiciary branch thus far, it is ruled by the tenants of the constitution. From the other two branches, no doubt partisanship has taken hold.

I think those that are voting for the hope of partisan judges, they will be disappointed in the long run.


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It is quite clear that the spate of SCJs has been targeted specifically at repealing Roe vs Wade, which itself is a constitutional issue - specifically, freedom and right to privacy.

We will see if legality and the constitution matters in the coming years to these judges. Time will tell. I sincerely hope you are right.
 

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He will not be censured, he will be acquitted by the senate that simply states he was a “bad boy” for not releasing the funds earlier, wink and nod.


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The House will censure and call him a bad boy. It will go no further.
 

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Does it matter these were his base platform during the elections? Does he simply ignore other issues because these were not what he ran on? A plethora of signature legislation and all you got for me is the wall? Last time I checked on the wall, the entire Congressional body was against the wall in all forms. The media backed it up. I do not see this as a lie, Mexico paying for it. It was a simple come-on and I viewed it as such. Presidents before Trump used the come-on. And to be sure the biggest rally cry was and still is, "Make America Great Again."

Anyway, the wall is underconstruction

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/08/us/border-wall-texas.html
1. it was not a come-on to say repeatedly that Mexico would pay for it. It is disingenuous to put that forward as an excuse.

2. very little of the wall has been built, most of which is actually repairs to existing structures.

3. a "plethora?" What was one of his biggest complaints about Obama? His vacations. How much time has Trump spent on his own golf courses or sitting there tweeting while watching Fox & Friends? Are you even serious?
 

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The House will censure and call him a bad boy. It will go no further.
I doubt they will even reprimand him or say it was inappropriate.

This will be perceived by the GOP and Trump supporters as a win - but in the long run it will bolster the freedom for other nation states to openly influence your democracy.
 

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The House will censure and call him a bad boy. It will go no further.


The House will impeach, the Senate will acquit with a wink and a nod - bad boy. I only say this because the process has moved into the judiciary committee. Typically this is a telling sign as to where Congressional House members are taking this. Plus, the judiciary has already been granted favorable rulings by the courts on the the WHs reach of executive immunity.


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Much like the Mueller hoax, this also is a nothing burger. The Dems will double down on the rhetoric with the help of the lamestream media. Both parties will survive, I don't ascribe to the idea that every horrendously bad political decision by either party means the immediate dissolution of said party.

Also, Pelosi has no control of her party and stupidly panders to the far leftists and swampists, she has no hand.

Schiff has pretty lips (that lie uncontrollably). I think he has the same acting coach as Zuckerberg.....that blank unblinking forward stare is creepy.

Sondland: ''All I have is presumptions."

^^^^^lol

So, I see this panning out with another weak coup attempt with another, even less, convincing Trump ''crime'', after this one peters out.
 

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1. it was not a come-on to say repeatedly that Mexico would pay for it. It is disingenuous to put that forward as an excuse.

2. very little of the wall has been built, most of which is actually repairs to existing structures.

3. a "plethora?" What was one of his biggest complaints about Obama? His vacations. How much time has Trump spent on his own golf courses or sitting there tweeting while watching Fox & Friends? Are you even serious?
Trump does not vacation. If he is anywhere it is going to another rally. Was it Trump in the WH Christmas day tweeting he was working? LOL He is permitted to tweet any time of the day like any other president.
 

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Much like the Mueller hoax, this also is a nothing burger. The Dems will double down on the rhetoric with the help of the lamestream media. Both parties will survive, I don't ascribe to the idea that every horrendously bad political decision by either party means the immediate dissolution of said party.

Also, Pelosi has no control of her party and stupidly panders to the far leftists and swampists, she has no hand.

Schiff has pretty lips (that lie uncontrollably). I think he has the same acting coach as Zuckerberg.....that blank unblinking forward stare is creepy.

Sondland: ''All I have is presumptions."

^^^^^lol

So, I see this panning out with another weak coup attempt with another, even less, convincing Trump ''crime'', after this one peters out.
Words matter. I'll help you with what some of these mean.

"Mueller hoax" is a non-sequitur. The Mueller report was a highly constrained report, and nothing of a hoax. It was a report with findings in it. To assist further, here's the definition of a 'hoax:'

hoax
noun
a humorous or malicious deception.

I don't find the Mueller report humorous, nor is it deceptive. It is a report of findings that have been verified. If anyone was deceptive, it was Barr that totally misrepresented it's findings.

'lamestream' is not a word. If it's an attempt to invalidate the 'maintream' media, then my recommendation is to take off the tin foil hat, turn of Fox, block brietbart, and in fact, stop paying attention to American media sources altogether for balance. Try... BBC. Or even CBC. Almost anyone that actually does serious journalism instead of focusing on opinion pieces, from a place where facts still matter.

'Pelosi has no control of her party' - That's because Nancy Pelosi does not lead the Democratic Party, or the DNC. She is the Speaker of the House of Representatives. Current DNC leadership is:
Chair: Tom Perez, former U.S. Secretary of Labor under Barack Obama[13]
Vice Chair of Civic Engagement and Voter Participation: Karen Carter Peterson[14]
Vice Chairs:
Michael Blake, New York Assemblyman[14]
Jaime Harrison, Associate Chair and former South Carolina Democratic Party Chairman[14]
Maria Elena Durazo, Executive Secretary–Treasurer of the AFL-CIO[15]
Ken Martin, Chair of the Minnesota Democratic-Farmer-Labor Party[16]
Grace Meng, U.S. Representative from New York's 6th congressional district[17]
Treasurer: William "Bill" Derrough[18]
Secretary: Jason Rae[19]
Finance Chair: Chris Korge II[15]
In addition, a National Advisory Board exists for purposes of fundraising and advising the executive. The present chair is Elizabeth Frawley Bagley, former U.S. Ambassador to Portugal.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_National_Committee#Current_leadership

'far leftists' - who precisely do you mean by this? Here's what "left wing" means in a political sense:

Left-wing politics supports social equality and egalitarianism, often in opposition to social hierarchy.[1][2][3][4] It typically involves a concern for those in society whom its adherents perceive as disadvantaged relative to others as well as a belief that there are unjustified inequalities that need to be reduced or abolished.[1]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-wing_politics

By extrapolation, a 'far leftist' would therefore mean someone that is extreme in their support of social equity and egalitarianism (equality). Is it bad to be equals? Does your constitution not say this? What exactly are you saying here by using it as a derogative - that people aren't equal, or shouldn't be?

swampists - this is not a word. I assume you are referencing corruption in bureaucrats or politicians, which has now been firmly established by the impeachment process. The swampists, as it were, now then include those that support Trump with the Ukraine scandal.

'Schiff has pretty lips' - I'm glad you find him attractive, but I'm not sure what that has to do with anything.

...'that lie uncontrollably' - he has not, as far as I'm aware, been demonstrated to have lied about anything regarding the Ukraine scandal.

Sondland: "All I have is presumptions." This is in regard to the holdback of military funding aid, not the white house meeting, which he was directly involved with. If you are attempting to indicate otherwise, then this is disingenuous, and was not his testimony.

'weak coup attempt': This is not a coup. Here's the definition for you, because it literally does not mean what is happening:
coup

noun
1. a sudden, violent, and illegal seizure of power from a government.

This is neither sudden, nor violent, nor illegal. Therefore, it is not a coup.

''crime'' - I assume you're using quotes because you do not think Trump has committed a crime. The Ukraine issue has yet to actually be adjudicated, so calling it 'alleged' is appropriate. However, I would call out that bribery is explicitly called out as an impeachable offense, and this very well looks to be bribery to me. We will see if history -- and the law -- judges it as such. However, to come full circle, it is also possible or even likely that Trump may face obstruction of justice charges as detailed by the events in the Mueller report, once he is no longer president and exempted from DOJ action.
 
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