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How to manipulate your spouse and get more sex!

10K views 82 replies 21 participants last post by  gaius 
#1 ·
I grew up in my career as a salesman and learned that the rules of algebra apply to everything in life. Everything negative can be made into a positive if you look at it from the other side of the equation. For those in a HD/LD situation to where one spouse has a higher desire for sex than the other, the lower desire spouse usually claims that the higher desire spouse is manipulating the relationship for more sex.

What do you do, because admit it, if it could be done we would indeed do it? Odds are that is what was happening. Also known as the "covert contract" of doing something nice and expecting something (hope it is sexual) in return!

If I have learned one thing it would be the power of validation! If your spouse accuses you of doing something manipulative to get more sex, allow yourself to get caught! Even if it is NOT the case, pretend that that was exactly what you were doing! THIS will be very validating to the LD partner because this person will finally feel validated in feeling how they feel. NOW... here is the important part and where the algebra comes in handy. Claim that you are BEHIND on your ability to manipulate your spouse for sex and that whatever it is you were doing is a partial payment to try and catch up for sex that has already occurred. Then complain that past sex has been way too good and that it has been making the problem worse and that you will never be caught up and actually get to do manipulative things that will result in more sex. You will alway be behind and playing catch up by doing nice things to try to even the score.

Then look at your spouse and ask if you can increase your credit limit!

So what happened here is that you took something that would historically be a point of argument, acknowledged it and twisted it into a compliment! I did this to my wife the other day and she is all too aware of my modem operatum, but she smiled at me and said, "looking at things that way might actually work for you and get you more sex!"

Cheers,
Badsanta
 
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#41 ·
OK, we are quickly running out of things that manipulation can be.
Time for a reality check.
Definition of manipulate

transitive verb
1: to treat or operate with or as if with the hands or by mechanical means especially in a skillful manner manipulate a pencil manipulate a machine
2a: to manage or utilize skillfully quantify our data and manipulate it statistically— S. L. Payne
b: to control or play upon by artful, unfair, or insidious means especially to one's own advantage; being used and manipulated by the knowing men around him— New Republic
3: to change by artful or unfair means so as to serve one's purpose : DOCTOR suspected that the police reports were manipulated— Evelyn G. Cruickshanks
For the purpose of this conversation we need to limit this to definition 2 b.
is there any objection to that?
 
#59 ·
I think certain people think all forms of manipulation are inherently wicked. Ironically sexuality does not play by rules that are considered fair and democratic (to quote Esther Perel). So one has to be quick, clever, confident and witted in order to overcome emotional tension and barriers!

I could argue that women manipulate men into mostly sexless marriages because they are unwilling to confront their own low self confidence to get the courage to ask for what they want and feel deserving of it. That is not manipulation as for sure it is self sacrifice isn't it? Can't be. No...

Historically I have never known what to get my wife for Christmas. Since I have been working on her self confidence, this year I knew what she wanted for Christmas because she blatantly told me. I went out and spent twice what she had budgeted for this idea to get her what she wanted and to get her the nicer version of what she wanted. She has been so freaking happy with her gift. Historically she would have felt undeserving, never mentioned what she wanted, and basically ended up with nothing meaningful for her gift for the holidays.

Women reading this... Seriously ask yourself what you really wanted for Christmas and what it would take for you to feel deserving of it enough to ask for it? None of that playfully hinting around crap with shy giggles, but to actually say, "I want THIS. GO OUT AND GET IT FOR ME!" to your spouse in time for Christmas. A lot of women reading this probably didn't get that something that the daydream about, but instead got something kind of nice and thoughtful. Is it because your spouse doesn't love you? NO! It is because you need to learn how to love yourself enough to feel deserving of what you want and make it happen. Perhaps your spouse hasn't figured out how to manipulate the situation into allowing you to feel that way and get all the benefits that comes along with feeling good about yourself.
 
#53 ·
No. He wanted her to feel as sexy as he thinks she is. He wasn't lying to her so he could get laid. At least that's not what it sounded like. If he was, that's manipulation. Is he telling her all of this and then laughing at her behind her back for believing him? Or is he genuinely trying to make her feel better about herself and wants her to feel sexy and be more confident and understand how sexy he thinks she is or was he just telling her what he had to tell her to get his rocks off and rolling his eyes that she was dumb enough to buy it? Intent matters.
I'd say he genuinely loves his W without reservation, absolutely no doubt there.
 
#54 ·
I learned at the tender age of 14 that intent is ethereal and impossible to prove. Long story short It turned a felony into a misdemeanor.
The problem here is that Badsanta the OP on this thread defined manipulation as the artful playing of another person. And, TexasMom1216 keep insisting on it being the insidious playing on of another person. They are Both right.
It is ok to manipulate a person if your intent is approved (I'm having trouble with the term good here because the level of approved is all over the place) Bad santa is not suggesting insidious or even deceitful playing, but, his intent is clearly more frequent sex. Despite the broadly accepted fact that frequent sex improves marriages, She's still lost it thinks frequent sex is somehow insidious.

Now If I want more frequent sex I have to go to definition 1 and physically manipulate Mrs. Nail's back and shoulders and often feet. I still do this even though she doesn't love me.
 
#77 ·
I learned at the tender age of 14 that intent is ethereal and impossible to prove. Long story short It turned a felony into a misdemeanor.
The problem here is that Badsanta the OP on this thread defined manipulation as the artful playing of another person. And, TexasMom1216 keep insisting on it being the insidious playing on of another person. They are Both right.
It is ok to manipulate a person if your intent is approved (I'm having trouble with the term good here because the level of approved is all over the place) Bad santa is not suggesting insidious or even deceitful playing, but, his intent is clearly more frequent sex. Despite the broadly accepted fact that frequent sex improves marriages, She's still lost it thinks frequent sex is somehow insidious.

Now If I want more frequent sex I have to go to definition 1 and physically manipulate Mrs. Nail's back and shoulders and often feet. I still do this even though she doesn't love me.
For me the heart of the matter to this post is what is in the heart of the person that is trying to "manipulate" their spouse. Artfully playing with someone doesn't give me an insight into what is in that person's heart.

Bad Santa has pointed out in other threads that some women have "responsive desire." That is they normally don't think about sex, but if something causes them to think about sex and get slightly turned on, then it quickly becomes "game on." In this kind of relationships, date nights, watching sexy Netflix movies, having candle lit dinners, etc. can be either seen as being romantic, trying to get your partner to have sexual relations, or just being a good partner. Based on past posts, this seems to be part of the dynamic in Bad Santa's relationship.

One could even expand this to who initiates sex? Is the person initiating sex trying to manipulate their partner?

From my perspective sex is about "making love" and emotional and physical connection. The release of various feel good hormones during sexual intercourse can produce feelings of euphoria and emotional bonding.

As Mr. Nail says, intent is everything (but nearly impossible to know.) That I see as the heart of this discussion. I think where the discussion went off the rails was the title of the post,
How to manipulate your spouse and get more sex!

I honestly believe that you can't force your partner to do anything that they don't want to do. If you try to force your partner to have sex and they really don't want to do it it is either or close to rape. Again it depends on the meaning of the words force, and "really don't want to." Forcing someone to do something they don't want to do is abusive.

Now let's go back to the title. If it were how to force your spouse and get more sex, we would probably condemn the concept. If the title were, how to work with your spouse and get more sex, we would probably mostly agree with the concept. If the title were how to negotiate with your spouse and get more sex, we would again mostly agree with the concept. If the title were how to initiate sex with your spouse, in an agreed upon way and get more sex, again we would probably mostly agree.

To me for "manipulate" to be a two-way agreement (negotiated?) then both people need to know that the intent is not to impose one persons will or desires upon the other, but that the other knows what is happening and can freely say yes or no. That means that the person doing the manipulating must have an intent that allows their spouse to freely say no fi they don't want.

Why I brought up covert contracts and NMMNG was because a covert contract is a form of attempting to get a partner to have sex, which usually does not work and is not a two-way meeting of the minds and bodies.

The heart of the spirited discussion is the meaning of "manipulate."


Next I have to question if it "is broadly accepted that frequent sex improves a marriage." I will go back to David Schnarch and his believe that everything in marriage is negotiated between the partners. There is no right amount of steak each week for dinner. There is no right amount of chocolate ice cream after dinner per week. There is not right amount of children for a marriage. There is not right amount of a child's allowance. There is no right amount of sex each week. There are all things that a couple must either explicitly or implicitly negotiate and agree upon, either by affirmative action or inactions.

In my HD/LD marriage, I am sure my LD wife might think that frequent sex could ruin a marriage, if "frequent" were some absolute number measured in multiple times per day. In fact, I am sure that there is a number of times per day that would horrify me (I don't want calluses or blisters down there).
 
#62 ·
Interestingly enough in the book I just read, "Why Women Have Sex" it did claim that someone has to lose in order for the other to win pleasurably. At its core sexuality is relentlessly competitive. Competition is the birthplace of self development. Self development is critical for survival.

Many psychology books that I have read also tend to suggest that deriving sexual pleasure fails to combine with the dynamics of everything being comfortable, familiar, routine, and following a set of clearly defined rules.
 
#81 ·
It sounds more like you were trying to manipulate her before. Instead of just being honest and telling her you want her in the sack now you'd do lots of nice things to try and get in her pants. Which she didn't respect much. And rightfully so.

So lesson learned. Being direct and honest, paired with being playful and entertaining, is the magic combination to turn a woman on.
 
#82 ·
There is perhaps a lot of truth to that comment. I however scratch my head and wonder if being honest and playful back then would have indeed worked or backfired. I feel certain that it would have just made things worse if my wife was convinced that I just use her for sex. I think first I needed to help her work on her self esteem and I had to work on mine as well. Once she started feeling somewhat better about herself, THEN I could be honest and playful.

I also have to be able to stand up and allow myself to get hit by a freight train of insults and not even flinch. Perhaps I'll look at my wife all playfully puzzled and say, "well honey, you married me so I am going to assume that is what takes to rock your boat!" Historically I would get all butt hurt, withdraw, and go into passive aggressive tantrums. These days I see her insults as more of a test to see if I can hold my sh!t together emotionally. When I do keep it together I think that is what it needed for her to enjoy being closer to me as opposed to being a grumpy old cooter (just had to look up that word and it means turtle which makes sense).
 
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