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Affection would be physical contact motivated by emotional attachment.
Getting closer to the truth with every post.
I like this definition of Physical affection
I believe there is non physical affection
For example verbal affection, and . . .
Body language affection (that one is hard to articulate)

So would your definition include sexual contact motivated by emotional attachment?
 

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Manipulation is tricking someone. Lying to them. Getting them to do something they don’t want to do.

I will never understand someone who wants sex with someone who doesn’t want them.
To play devil's advocate, manipulation doesn't mean lie in every case. There are cads who don't hesitate to lie if it suits their need. However many humans use the truth often enough when attempting to manipulate another from start to finish. Both sexes.

In many cases the truths are used like battering rams.
Other cases, like a velvet glove.
 

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You can try to soften it up any way you want to justify it. No one is perfectly honest when they are manipulating someone. Having a frank discussion about something to try to get someone to see your point of view is not manipulation. The words matter and if you try to tell me it's "manipulative" for my H to tell me I look pretty then you're telling me he doesn't really think I'm pretty, he just wants me to do something and is lying to me to get what he wants. If he's more effusive with compliments because he would like to engage in a little wiggle-brow stuff, that's not manipulation. He's being honest and hinting around, he's not trying to trick me.
I'm not trying to soften it up, why would I?

I have no dog in this hunt. I'm only pointing out that manipulation is the subject, and sadly it doesn't always include lying.
 

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Not just sex in general but humorously both men and women fall into into the well I did this, that, etc and erroneously fall into the transactional sex relationship dance. Always a big mistake. But parties do so with truths.

Also, different situation; anyone who doesn't lay on the sweetness when circumstances warrant, doesn't want to get laid bad enough. So I'm with you there.
Sometimes it's not sweetness needed, sometimes it is, and all variations in between.
That's a large component in a great sexual relationship with a spouse btw.
 

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My wife doesn't want to think of herself as beautiful. I think she is, but she generally refuses to believe me. So I do resort to manipulation in order to get her to believe the truth.
Sceen from the Princess Bride, You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means

I know that often you post things just to get people fired up. However, this is one of those times that I would like to point out a few things to you. One of the things that I struggled with was loosing my "Nice Guy" status and becoming a more integrated man. If someone else reading this is confused, they need to read Glover's book, No More, Mr. Nice Guy.

To me manipulating a partner for more sex, sounds a lot like making a covert contract to try to get more sex. Actually any form of manipulation for any purpose sounds a lot like a covert contract.

The problem with covert contracts with a spouse is that they know you very well. They also can read your body language, your facial expressions, and your tone of voice. That means that the person you are trying to make a covert contract with is quite likely to know exactly what you are up to. In turn that means it is quite likely to fail. That will make you look like a sexually needy "Nice Guy" in the eyes of the person you really want to have sex with.

I think that a far better approach is to just be honest about what you want, what you need, and talk about it.

Good luck.
 

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Now that we have nailed down what affection is,
And how common it is for it to be associated with sex,
Now we need a definition of manipulation.
Is seduction manipulation?
Is initiation manipulation?
Is self improvement manipulation?
And it just goes on.
If manipulation is trying to get someone to do something that they don't want to do, is it manipulation to get some on to want to do something they aren't doing? In other words to change their mind.
Is Conversation manipulation?

And Young at Heart we will get to the myth of the covert contract eventually.
 

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Sceen from the Princess Bride, You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means

I know that often you post things just to get people fired up. However, this is one of those times that I would like to point out a few things to you. One of the things that I struggled with was loosing my "Nice Guy" status and becoming a more integrated man. If someone else reading this is confused, they need to read Glover's book, No More, Mr. Nice Guy.

To me manipulating a partner for more sex, sounds a lot like making a covert contract to try to get more sex. Actually any form of manipulation for any purpose sounds a lot like a covert contract.

The problem with covert contracts with a spouse is that they know you very well. They also can read your body language, your facial expressions, and your tone of voice. That means that the person you are trying to make a covert contract with is quite likely to know exactly what you are up to. In turn that means it is quite likely to fail. That will make you look like a sexually needy "Nice Guy" in the eyes of the person you really want to have sex with.

I think that a far better approach is to just be honest about what you want, what you need, and talk about it.

Good luck.
If I'm wanting to fool around with the W and she DOESN'T know what I'm up to, I'm doing it wrong! 🤣🤣
 

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Discussion Starter · #40 ·
It’s not manipulative if you are giving Mrs.BadSanta what she needs. 😆

Sometimes wives aren’t aware (consciously) how bad they need us. Our affection, validation, and prowess (shall we say) can’t just be found anywhere. This is like the only thing wives somehow fail to articulate. 😆

They make us think it’s just US that need them… don’t buy it! 😂
I have read No More Mr Nice Guy and I am aware of covert contracts and perhaps guilty of those in the past. I don't do that anymore. These days if I am in the mood for intimacy, I communicate that clearly and try as best I can to accommodate whatever my wife needs to help it be something we both share and enjoy. Primarily she mostly needs me NOT to disrupt her schedule of things that she wants to get done.

She however knows she overbooks herself and likely feel guilty and perhaps pressured to make more time for me. As a result when she thinks I should be upset and frustrated but she knows I am being nice, she accuses me of ONLY being nice because I want sex to happen soon. To me that is an insult and I have never been able to successfully defend myself against those remarks.

So these days I just validate her concerns and tell her she is too darn beautiful. I'll perhaps ask her to not dress up so nice to make it easier for me. She starts giggling and responds well to that. So that is how I roll with it these days!
 
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