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With my wife I think it would be "All of the above" She has admitted recently that sex isn't all that important to her anymore.
Then maybe she should just have a lot of friends, and not be married.

A marriage is a sexual relationship.

She admitted that to you because she knows you aren't going anywhere, despite the unfulfilling sex life.
 

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This situation is often due to the partner being to sure, to comfortable and to certain in the relationship. Shaking the foundations of the relationship may engender a relationship where one person does not feel they have the upper hand and all control.
 

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I do not want to be in a marriage with sex this way the rest of my life, that’s for sure.
those above were almost my exact same words to my wife and to the counselor when we were in MC.

i was just simply being honest that one of the critical criteria conditions for me being in a marriage was to have an active and satisfactory live and sex life and that if she truly did not want that, that I would prefer to go our separate ways so she could be celibate and I could see if I could find someone who did want a love and sex life. - The MC agreed that that was a reasonable expectation and turned to look to her for her response.

The point to make here is humans want to connect erotically/romantically/sexually.

That component can wither and die in many long term relationships and that is sad.

but life goes on and it is normal and natural to move on and seek it again. You’re not a bad guy for wanting a good relationship.

if she would rather spend the rest of her days finger fcking her phone watching other people live and fill the house with cats, that is her perogative.

but you have the right to live.

If having a romantic/sexual component to a relationship is important to you, but she does not want that in her life, you have the right to move on and seek elsewhere.

And it is perfectly OK to let her know that it is important to you and to not feel any shame or embarrassment over that.

with my wife, that did not make her horny or transform her into a sex beast.

But what it did do was wake her up to the fact that just because she wasn’t in the mood, that did not mean that I had to live my life as a eunuch.

she had a choice. She could have chosen to have Thanksgiving with the kids in her own apartment with her cats while I moved on.

or she could come to the negotiation table and discuss what will make the marriage and the marital sex life more appealing than a divorce.
 

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With my wife I think it would be "All of the above" She has admitted recently that sex isn't all that important to her anymore.
When I was in MC, I disclosed that without a sex life, that remaining in the marriage would not be important to me anymore.

what was funny was my wife looked over at the MC expecting him to scold me or tell me I was wrong, but instead he just looked at her with an inquisitive look waiting for her response and finally told her I had stated my position and asked her if she would prefer to address the issues and work on the marriage or divorce.

When pressed for her preference, she conceded she would rather have a live and sex life rather than divorce.
 

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Which part do they not care about? The orgasm? The great feeling afterward?
years ago when Dr Laura Schlesinger had her syndicated radio talk show, almost every night there would be some gal that would call in and said she had kids and had PTA meetings and soccer games and 4H meetings that she had to get to and that she was no longer in the mood but that her husband still wanted to have sex.

she would ask Dr Laura what she could do or say so that her husband wouldn’t keep wanting to have a sex life.

Without missing a beat, Dr Laura would ask her what it was about orgasms that she did not like.

Of course that was met with silence on the other end.

Dr Laura would ask again what it was about living and pleasure and orgasms that she didn’t like.

Silence and then some stammering.

Then would come the inevitable, “But I’m not in the mood.”

Dr Laura would then go into explaining the concepts of responsive desire in 1990s verbiage and terminology.

And she did a pretty dang good job of explaining that if a wife is never going to be in the mood for a sex life, that the husband will soon not be in the mood to remain either faithful or even married at all.
 

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Discussion Starter · #208 ·
I got told tonight to lower my expectations on sex because I just need to realize that the majority of the time we have sex it will just be for my benefit since she’s just not that into it. She also told me that most wives are probably like this and that’s why I needed to lower my expectations. Take it or leave it approach.

I’m giving this until after the holidays before I make a decision on what I should do. I do not want to be in a marriage with sex this way the rest of my life, that’s for sure.
Wow. I’m sorry to hear that. I’d be out the door. 100%.

Last night I thought the stars would align for some sober sex, but again just as it was lights out time she turned on her stomach. I said aren’t we having our usual Tuesday night session half jokingly and she replied yes twice and laughed. That was the end of the conversation and she nodded off to sleep.
 

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Wow. I’m sorry to hear that. I’d be out the door. 100%.

Last night I thought the stars would align for some sober sex, but again just as it was lights out time she turned on her stomach. I said aren’t we having our usual Tuesday night session half jokingly and she replied yes twice and laughed. That was the end of the conversation and she nodded off to sleep.
Dr Psych Mom has a podcast from September 2nd titled, “Every Time You Promise Sex You Don’t Give, An Angel Dies In Heaven.”

it is about people promising lovins later or the next day but then have an excuse and don’t deliver.
 

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Shall I send my Wife the link to read it ha.
it is a podcast, but yeah DPM explains the damaged and resentment caused by rejecting your spouse and then promising to do it “later” but then having another excuse and another rejection when ‘later’ rolls around.

She likens it to telling the kids you don’t want to take them for ice cream or to the amusement park today but saying you will do it tomorrow, but when tomorrow comes your not in the mood to take them to ice cream or you’re too tired or there was too much to do around the house or that they hadn’t cleaned up the garage like they said they would etc etc

if a parent does that to a kid all the time, they’d be a shtty parent. But some people think it’s perfectly ok to treat their partner like that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #212 ·
it is a podcast, but yeah DPM explains the damaged and resentment caused by rejecting your spouse and then promising to do it “later” but then having another excuse and another rejection when ‘later’ rolls around.

She likens it to telling the kids you can’t take them for ice cream or to the amusement park but saying you will do it tomorrow, but when tomorrow comes your not in the mood to take them to ice cream or you’re too tired or their was too much to do around the house or that they hadn’t cleaned up the garage like they said they would etc etc

if a parent does that to a kid all the time, they’d be a shtty parent. But some people think it’s perfectly ok to treat their partner like that.
to be honest my wife rarely promises anything when it comes to sex.
 

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Hey, our wives must be sisters as I have heard that one before too! Heard the "most wives" line as well too when I told her I was just trying to make our sex life better and heard "most wives our age don't care about sex very much anymore".
The come back should have been, "Then I guess I need to look for a newer model"
 

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Discussion Starter · #214 ·
Last night I thought I’d attempt to initiate again. She didn’t get straight on her front in bed so after a few cuddles I moved my hand below her waistline. Her arm literally shot down fast and pulled my hand back up.

I didn’t move away straight away as I didn’t want to come across as bothered by it. When I did retreat to my side of the bed a couple of mins later she moved over and rested her head on my chest.

I just find it bizarre i really do. Tomorrow we’re having a few drinks for her father’s birthday and if I did the same thing as I did last night she’d not be pulling my hand away.

Im going to speak to her at some point and say this isn’t working for me. I’m not prepared to have a sex life with someone who doesn’t initiate and then when I do whilst we’re both sober I get rejected. Pretty sure any new man she’d meet wouldn’t either. Then again I very much doubt she’d be like that.

The conversation needs to done whilst sober also.
 

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We had this dynamic for a bit in our 40s. She would reject 90% of the time. When she did give in, it was just duty sex. This went on for about six months, and I finally had enough.

I asked her to sit down and I needed to speak with her. I am generally a pretty plain spoken guy. I told her that this disinterest in having sex with me was not acceptable. I pointed out our vows said to "forsake all others" and not "forsake each other".

I told her straight up that if there was something I was doing or not doing, she needed to tell me. She said it was not me or anything I had done.

I told her straight up, sex is an important part of bonding in our marriage. That if she had a physical problem, I could understand, but she had told me nothing. I told her I would never try and force her to have sex, but I was not going to accept the dead body sex anymore.

I pointed out that she has 100% control of her vagiba and sexuality, but she doesn't have the only one on the planet. I told her we have two paths. (1) we fix this or (2) we get divorced and I find a woman who will want me.

We worked it out. We dealt with a dead bedroom in our fifties that was caused by my cancer, but by then, we maintained other forms of intimacy.
 

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We had this dynamic for a bit in our 40s. She would reject 90% of the time. When she did give in, it was just duty sex. This went on for about six months, and I finally had enough.

I asked her to sit down and I needed to speak with her. I am generally a pretty plain spoken guy. I told her that this disinterest in having sex with me was not acceptable. I pointed out our vows said to "forsake all others" and not "forsake each other".

I told her straight up that if there was something I was doing or not doing, she needed to tell me. She said it was not me or anything I had done.

I told her straight up, sex is an important part of bonding in our marriage. That if she had a physical problem, I could understand, but she had told me nothing. I told her I would never try and force her to have sex, but I was not going to accept the dead body sex anymore.

I pointed out that she has 100% control of her vagiba and sexuality, but she doesn't have the only one on the planet. I told her we have two paths. (1) we fix this or (2) we get divorced and I find a woman who will want me.

We worked it out. We dealt with a dead bedroom in our fifties that was caused by my cancer, but by then, we maintained other forms of intimacy.
So out of curiosity, what did SHE do to make things better? Sounds like she was already having sex but it was duty sex, what did she do to make improvements that met your expectations?
 

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So out of curiosity, what did SHE do to make things better? Sounds like she was already having sex but it was duty sex, what did she do to make improvements that met your expectations?
We learned to communicate better and she learned to let me know when I did something that irritated her. She realized that she had become completely identified as being "Mom", and the stress of two teenagers had built up.

I also realized that I had become too comfortable and was taking her for granted. I had stopped being romantic. We did counseling together.

So to answer your narrow question....She started communicating better (as did I). Telling and comprehending. This is when we read and did the "His Needs/Her Needs" book and exercises.
 

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Last night I thought I’d attempt to initiate again. She didn’t get straight on her front in bed so after a few cuddles I moved my hand below her waistline. Her arm literally shot down fast and pulled my hand back up.

I didn’t move away straight away as I didn’t want to come across as bothered by it. When I did retreat to my side of the bed a couple of mins later she moved over and rested her head on my chest.

I just find it bizarre i really do. Tomorrow we’re having a few drinks for her father’s birthday and if I did the same thing as I did last night she’d not be pulling my hand away.

Im going to speak to her at some point and say this isn’t working for me. I’m not prepared to have a sex life with someone who doesn’t initiate and then when I do whilst we’re both sober I get rejected. Pretty sure any new man she’d meet wouldn’t either. Then again I very much doubt she’d be like that.

The conversation needs to done whilst sober also.
@BIL310,

Does your wife have a drinking problem? Do you?

You mention drinking or being sober and sex in the same sentence a lot. What role do you think the alcohol is playing? Does alcohol affect her selfishness?

IME, one can have a better sex life replacing the alcohol with THC.

Also, IME, it is possible to push or pull someone in a particular direction, get the results one thought desirable (more sex), but still be unhappy because the results didn’t come from a place of attraction, value, and generosity — but rather came from arm twisting and fear. Those minor victories along the way consume time and are not the same as relaxed, pleasurable, and joyous living. Something best considered, now rather than later.
 

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Discussion Starter · #220 ·
@BIL310,

Does your wife have a drinking problem? Do you?

You mention drinking or being sober and sex in the same sentence a lot. What role do you think the alcohol is playing? Does alcohol affect her selfishness?

IME, one can have a better sex life replacing the alcohol with THC.

Also, IME, it is possible to push or pull someone in a particular direction, get the results one thought desirable (more sex), but still be unhappy because the results didn’t come from a place of attraction, value, and generosity — but rather came from arm twisting and fear. Those minor victories along the way consume time and are not the same as relaxed, pleasurable, and joyous living. Something best considered, now rather than later.
Drinking wise we have a drink together once a week on average, Usually on a Friday after the working week. We don’t drink at all usually Monday to Thursday.

Drinking seems to loosen her up. Which would be fine maybe if we had a couple of glasses of wine every night instead of 10 on a Friday. 😂

I’ve had this for years now. I want a regular norma sex life with my wife. Not someone who shares children and a house with and have sex here and there after a drink always on her terms.

I agree with what you’re saying hence why it’s hard to bring up youd like to think it would happen naturally but I’ve tried lots of things over the years, passively and not passively.
 
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