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Discussion Starter #81
Seriously, Bremik, you need to think about whether there is something a little bit exciting about playing the victim and gaining the sympathy of a bunch of strangers. Is it a little thrilling to come here and hash over your wife's sexual activities and hear a bunch of guys tell you how unfair it is?

If I'm way off base, then I apologize. But take action then this time. If you come back here a year from now, complaining about the same things, then you're just the boy who cried "wolf" and you're deceptively making us participate in your fantasy.
I will leave it at- you are off base
 

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I am not trying to be combative if it comes off that way. Just trying to rationalize things in my head. I always read it takes 2 in marriage problems and there have been many discussions on here to the validity of that statement. I think the best I have gathered from these discussions is - nobody agrees.
Yes, People disagree on where to assess blame.

If the same voice in my head says " jay is still in the picture she can't let him go" also says as she is crying and telling me how angry or mean I am to her "am I doing something wrong to make this worse?" What the heck am I supposed to do? I personally accept the notion that there is at least some ownership/responsibility on my part but I can't see what that is. I feel justified to be angry that all this has happened. I don't feel it's history if she is STILL in contact with jay. It is such a horrible mind game.
You are cherry picking discussions because you like this pain. People do not agree on divorce, fault and where to assess blame. A small minority, mainly those who have had NO infidelity in their life, who disagree on blaming the betrayed spouse for the affair partner still being in the picture. I'd argue only trolls and right fighters say you can fix a marriage with the affair partner still involved. Most agree fix your side of the street and get the affair partner out of the picture to work towards divorce or reconciliation.

You just brought up two different points. One may lead to an affair, which people do disagree on, the other is about the outcome and both sides overwhelmingly agree with removal of the affair partner regardless of fault. You need to stop blaming yourself and enforcing boundaries. A single wave can sink a boat.
 

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Yes this process looks very familiar after many conversations my wife and I have had. Hopefully it is easy to see how I can doubt myself if my wife has become good at such tactics
Are you or your children in real physical or emotional danger if your WS is out of the picture?
 

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Discussion Starter #84
Are you or your children in real physical or emotional danger if your WS is out of the picture?
I don't think so. But I am concerned how I am going to deal with things crashing down around me. We already dealt with major farm issues a few years ago. Things were supposed to get better - they haven't
 

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Discussion Starter #86
I can't understand why if the farm is operating at a loss you don't just shut it down.
Farming is very cyclical in income. Feast and famine. That's normal what alters your ability to deal with that is whether you inherited what you have or were first generation. We started 100% on borrowed money as first generation. It takes time. In 2 years a lot of our major payments will be up and the money gets more available to us. In addition, we are trying to venture into on farm processing and farm markets to sustain us- it takes time. You can't lay off your cows when prices are down
 

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Her job is the insurance provider and largest net income so big loss. She should actually live better living off her income only instead of the farm robbing money from it
I don't know that I can explain to you the farm side if you don't know how farming is. For various reasons we are where we are at right now and I said NETS the most not makes the most. I don't want to get hung up on farm financial.
You may understand farming, but you saying "NETS the most not makes the most" shows that you do not understand business. If you spend more to run a business than you
you earn from that business, then the business "makes" nothing, and in fact loses money. Currently you have your wife, children, and you, working in a business that loses money, such that what your wife makes is used to not only pay 100% of your living expenses, but is also used to cover the loses of your the farm business. If you got out of the farm business, got a job that actually pays you, not only would part of what your wife earns no longer be used to cover the farm's loses, but you would be able to provide for your own living expenses as well as be able to help your wife in providing for your family, thus giving them a better quality of life. The fact that your wife and children would no longer be wasting their time and energy doing farm work that nets the family nothing, is just an added bonus in improving the entire family's quality of life. The problem with you is, that like with your wife's cheating, you do not take meaningful action when it comes to earning a living. You either learn to run the farm at a real profit that fairly compensates everyone for the assets and labor put into the business, or you sell the farm and find a job that really lets you earn a living. Your wife may be a cheater, but I would not blame your wife if she has lost respect for you for not doing what you need to do in order to best provide for yourself and family. I hate to be so tough on you, but you need to wake up and realize that the status quo is not working, and start do something about it.

With this in mind, get a job, sell the farm, and then confront your wife from a position of strength. Only then will she respect you enough to start to take you seriously. You are a good person. You can make life better for you and your family if that is your focus. Be well.
 

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I am curious on your take on my situation? I was going to PM you but you don't do that. Please feel free to weigh in
Okay thanks for mentioning my name so I got the message! I am going to look at your past posts to get a full picture, okay?
 

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Discussion Starter #89
You may understand farming, but you saying "NETS the most not makes the most" shows that you do not understand business. If you spend more to run a business than you
you earn from that business, then the business "makes" nothing, and in fact loses money. Currently you have your wife, children, and you, working in a business that loses money, such that what your wife makes is used to not only pay 100% of your living expenses, but is also used to cover the loses of your the farm business. If you got out of the farm business, got a job that actually pays you, not only would part of what your wife earns no longer be used to cover the farm's loses, but you would be able to provide for your own living expenses as well as be able to help your wife in providing for your family, thus giving them a better quality of life. The fact that your wife and children would no longer be wasting their time and energy doing farm work that nets the family nothing, is just an added bonus in improving the entire family's quality of life. The problem with you is, that like with your wife's cheating, you do not take meaningful action when it comes to earning a living. You either learn to run the farm at a real profit that fairly compensates everyone for the assets and labor put into the business, or you sell the farm and find a job that really lets you earn a living. Your wife may be a cheater, but I would not blame your wife if she has lost respect for you for not doing what you need to do in order to best provide for yourself and family. I hate to be so tough on you, but you need to wake up and realize that the status quo is not working, and start do something about it.

With this in mind, get a job, sell the farm, and then confront your wife from a position of strength. Only then will she respect you enough to start to take you seriously. You are a good person. You can make life better for you and your family if that is your focus. Be well.
I appreciate that and your perspective. I respectfully say that farming always has been a very low margin business. The bank was happy that we netted 10% of our gross income for personal use.There are reasons very few people actually farm and those that do, farm well into their 70's before semi-retiring and then live off of assets for retirement.

In addition, my problems with my wife go back to when I worked for others and had a steady income. I have considered the stresses of farming as a cause and they at least don't help but jay was around before this.
 

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The family farm business is one tough business. It goes from year to year, feast to famine. All the things you say about it, including needing the entire family to contribute, are true. It's a business that is negatively susceptible to many outside variables like bugs, disease, weather, demand, prices and now your wife. She doesn't seem to understand that keeping Jay around (divorce) is going to contribute to her family's business failing. Does she?
 

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If she is not an eminent threat to you or your kids, then why don't you separate amicably and still run a business?

There is NO WAY this relationship is made out of love and is kept due to love. Well, make it a marriage of convenience then. She will and has not stopped cheating. You want out but can't due to finances. Why is this that I mentioned above not a doable route?

Notice I didn't mention divorce and you don't have to be divorced to both get from "this type of marriage" what you both need at this time. It's not perfect, but neither has the situation you have been in for quite some time either. Things don't have to be black and white. They grey area works best the majority of the time.
 

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I don't think so. But I am concerned how I am going to deal with things crashing down around me. We already dealt with major farm issues a few years ago. Things were supposed to get better - they haven't
You are confusing the issue so much. Get yourself out of infidelity first, bucko.

You're not doing that. You're sitting here talking about farms and stuff. No offense, but you need to prioritize first. Just get out of infidelity. Nothing else matters right now.

The reality is that everything will be fine financially. You'll figure that out when the time comes, but right now you need to be blowing up their worlds.
 

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Discussion Starter #93
You are confusing the issue so much. Get yourself out of infidelity first, bucko.

You're not doing that. You're sitting here talking about farms and stuff. No offense, but you need to prioritize first. Just get out of infidelity. Nothing else matters right now.

The reality is that everything will be fine financially. You'll figure that out when the time comes, but right now you need to be blowing up their worlds.
I agree! Thank you for the re-focus!
 

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Discussion Starter #94
If she is not an eminent threat to you or your kids, then why don't you separate amicably and still run a business?

There is NO WAY this relationship is made out of love and is kept due to love. Well, make it a marriage of convenience then. She will and has not stopped cheating. You want out but can't due to finances. Why is this that I mentioned above not a doable route?

Notice I didn't mention divorce and you don't have to be divorced to both get from "this type of marriage" what you both need at this time. It's not perfect, but neither has the situation you have been in for quite some time either. Things don't have to be black and white. They grey area works best the majority of the time.
This is a very interesting and outside the box thinking! It helps on many levels the current concerns I have!
 

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This is a very interesting and outside the box thinking! It helps on many levels the current concerns I have!
Glad to be of service. This is a very common agreement in my native country and my culture.
 

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This is a very interesting and outside the box thinking! It helps on many levels the current concerns I have!
That's right just tell her she has your permission to cheat, and you can still work down on the farm.
 

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I respectfully say that farming always has been a very low margin business. The bank was happy that we netted 10% of our gross income for personal use.There are reasons very few people actually farm and those that do, farm well into their 70's before semi-retiring and then live off of assets for retirement.
In saying that "farming always has been a very low margin business", that there "are reasons very few people actually farm", and you earlier explaining why it is a hard business to be in if you did not have the advantage of inheriting the farm, you are rationalizing why it is not your fault that you are losing money, but you are not giving any good reason for staying in the failing business. Having an excuse for failure is not the same as success. I know many good people that have closed their businesses due the Internet (for example a travel agent) when they started to lose money. The farming industry has moved to large industrial farmers and away from small family farmers. You gave it your best shot, now accept this reality and move.

In addition, my problems with my wife go back to when I worked for others and had a steady income. I have considered the stresses of farming as a cause and they at least don't help but jay was around before this.
Although your "problems with my wife go back to when I worked for others and had a steady income", your inability to financially be able to do anything about it began when you became dependent on her income. You need to decide on either keeping the farm, or having the financial ability to tell your wife that it is either Jay or you.
 

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Discussion Starter #98
That's right just tell her she has your permission to cheat, and you can still work down on the farm.
yes I guess that would be a good point to. No easy way out is there? Of course some would argue- maybe rightfully so - I already have done that
 

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Although your "problems with my wife go back to when I worked for others and had a steady income", your inability to financially be able to do anything about it began when you became dependent on her income. You need to decide on either keeping the farm, or having the financial ability to tell your wife that it is either Jay or you.
She is clearly unwilling to give up Jay. She will just go deeper underground. She may wait it out for a bit, but it's super easy to cheat and keep it hidden. On TAM we discuss all the ways to catch a cheater, but the truth is that if someone wants to cheat and hide it, the only thing that will tell you they are cheating is your gut. You'll never get an ounce of proof if they have half a mind to seriously hide it.
 

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Discussion Starter #100
She is clearly unwilling to give up Jay. She will just go deeper underground. She may wait it out for a bit, but it's super easy to cheat and keep it hidden. On TAM we discuss all the ways to catch a cheater, but the truth is that if someone wants to cheat and hide it, the only thing that will tell you they are cheating is your gut. You'll never get an ounce of proof if they have half a mind to seriously hide it.
It was just a freak chance that I found what I did recently. Luckily I knew what his farm's name was or may have still missed it. She doesn't want to answer why he uses the "farm" phone instead of his. I wonder if he is hiding things from his wife? He texted my wife at night a few times so you think he would have used his phone. You make good points thank you
 
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