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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Having read such a lot about the guys "manning up", "becoming the Alpha" and whatnot, I am interested to hear what the guys (and laydeez) here think about the female equivalent.

I have read various bits here and briefly referenced on MMSL - which said females basically need to do the same - and show interest in other guys (paraphrased but you get the gist!)

I have been on a journey of self-improvement for quite a while now. I have taken a long hard look at myself and working on various areas of my life. Some changes were relatively simple (took up gym and other sports) but others, such as working on ingrained habits, are a work-in-progress. Things such as not replying, "I'm okay" when asked if everything is all right, and saying what is on my mind. I've always been introverted and very shy and quiet so opening up is difficult. It is something I have become better at - faking confidence I have practiced by chatting to other parents at school about the kids, opening up conversations by commenting on cute things about the kids, that sort of thing. Chatting to the shop assistant when picking up groceries.

I have also worked on becoming less "nice." I have stopped overextending myself and started saying "no" when I am taking on too much. I have stopped feeling I have to apologise for other people or offer explanations if I don't want something.

Hubz describes me as "nice", a nice girl. I think this is a compliment, and to the most part I think I will always be like that in the way that he means it well and that he is describing positive qualities.

I would be very interested to hear what people think about "womaning up" :D What kinds of things would people be offering as advice to a woman looking to woman up? I'm thinking the whole spectrum a la the advice offered to guys here so throw in anything you think personally or generally.
 

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Hummm, difficult one - the last thing I want is to become some A1 b*tch because I'm just not (no really)

For me with my ex it was about not hiding my intelligence and pretending I didn't have anything to say when he was talking out of his ass about something. I will talk to pretty much anyone about anything so being introverted isn't an issue, but it's key not to lay yourself out there. I used to meet people and really open up - big mistake, be careful about who you share with

And you can be assertive without hurting people's feelings as long as you communicate why you've taken a particular stance on something. Don't be afraid to say 'no'

Lastly, wear high heels
 

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I have read various bits here and briefly referenced on MMSL - which said females basically need to do the same - and show interest in other guys (paraphrased but you get the gist!)
That's shet testing behaviour!


No way!

The intent is not to show interest in other women. That just creates jealousy and is to be avoided.

Now gaining the interest of other women because the guy has made himself attractive is a totally different matter. The guy is making himself more attractive for his own self-esteem and self-respect. The knock on to that may be that re regains his wife’s attraction and desire for him and for sure, other women may too be attracted to him.


Tobio, if that’s the way you are thinking, then if even at the subconscious level you are showing interest in other guys it sure as heck explains why your H responded like he did in the pub. Of course you will see his anger. He responded out of jealousy, the thought of losing you because of the way you were behaving. You should know that you have got it so very wrong.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
That's shet testing behaviour!


No way!

The intent is not to show interest in other women. That just creates jealousy and is to be avoided.

Now gaining the interest of other women because the guy has made himself attractive is a totally different matter. The guy is making himself more attractive for his own self-esteem and self-respect. The knock on to that may be that re regains his wife’s attraction and desire for him and for sure, other women may too be attracted to him.


Tobio, if that’s the way you are thinking, then if even at the subconscious level you are showing interest in other guys it sure as heck explains why your H responded like he did in the pub. Of course you will see his anger. He responded out of jealousy, the thought of losing you because of the way you were behaving. You should know that you have got it so very wrong.
No Bob - I was saying that that is what Athol said in his blog. Not that that is what I do! If you knew me IRL you would see that, but obviously you don't so you'll just have to take my word for it! Hubz knows how shy I am and he knows I am not like that.
 

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No Bob - I was saying that that is what Athol said in his blog. Not that that is what I do! If you knew me IRL you would see that, but obviously you don't so you'll just have to take my word for it! Hubz knows how shy I am and he knows I am not like that.
Can you copy and paste what you read about it. It's not that I doubt your word, I would like to see what Athol says about it.

thanks
 

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Tobio,
" Woman Up " is the exact , same principle as the Alpha concept.
My suggestion to you is to go and read the
" Becoming the Alpha Thread " again.
If possible, read ONLY the posts by the two moderators and you will get the concept.
As I have said throughout the thread,
It is a gender neutral concept.

Firstly, you must understand what about yourself you need to change, and why.

Secondly, know that its not about your husband or how he treats you, but its about making yourself the best you.

Finally, my personal mantra is ,
Never accept disrespect.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
Can you copy and paste what you read about it. It's not that I doubt your word, I would like to see what Athol says about it.

thanks
Bob

Here and scroll down to the bottom. Puts it in a little more context from what I was saying.

Will post a bit later about what the problems are.

And also thanks CM, I will go and read it again later.
 

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Bob

Here and scroll down to the bottom. Puts it in a little more context from what I was saying.

Will post a bit later about what the problems are.

And also thanks CM, I will go and read it again later.
The only reference I found from Athol on your link is this one ….

Athol Kay says:
October 28, 2012 at 8:41 pm
@Wendy another dude hitting on your girl and her looking like she is enjoying the interaction fills men with utter stomach churning dread. I keep saying “mild disloyalty” because the male reaction is so powerful.


Which appears to me to be the “exact opposite” of your interpretation (make your partner jealous) or the 3rd party interpretation which you are referencing.

Maybe if you’d have started your post off in a positive and optimistic way instead of a negative and criticising way you’d have a really different attitude to it all.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
The only reference I found from Athol on your link is this one ….

Athol Kay says:
October 28, 2012 at 8:41 pm
@Wendy another dude hitting on your girl and her looking like she is enjoying the interaction fills men with utter stomach churning dread. I keep saying “mild disloyalty” because the male reaction is so powerful.


Which appears to me to be the “exact opposite” of your interpretation (make your partner jealous) or the 3rd party interpretation which you are referencing.

Maybe if you’d have started your post off in a positive and optimistic way instead of a negative and criticising way you’d have a really different attitude to it all.
This was the part I meant... At the bottom of his blog post.

Not for nothing, but the men that find MMSL on their own are always highly motivated to make change because they are deeply worried about how their relationship is going. Men simply don’t respond to “I’m unhappy”, “I’m unhaaaaaaaappy!” or “You suck! That’s why I’m so unhappy!” They do very much respond to wives dressing up nice and spending time with other men though.

I’m not saying it’s polite to do it, I’m just saying what works.


And I have to take issue with you saying my post started off "negative and criticising" - because it simply isn't, if you are referencing my original post. If you read through, I was explaining how I have taken positive action to change things I don't like about myself. Not negative and criticising, more positive change and outlook.
 

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This was the part I meant... At the bottom of his blog post.

Not for nothing, but the men that find MMSL on their own are always highly motivated to make change because they are deeply worried about how their relationship is going. Men simply don’t respond to “I’m unhappy”, “I’m unhaaaaaaaappy!” or “You suck! That’s why I’m so unhappy!” They do very much respond to wives dressing up nice and spending time with other men though.

I’m not saying it’s polite to do it, I’m just saying what works.


And I have to take issue with you saying my post started off "negative and criticising" - because it simply isn't, if you are referencing my original post. If you read through, I was explaining how I have taken positive action to change things I don't like about myself. Not negative and criticising, more positive change and outlook.
If the problem is that the husband is ignoring you sexually, then exhibiting "mild disloyalty" may be part of the solution. Sex is how men and women become emotionally bonded to each other such that they don't want sex with anyone else. So, when one partner gives the appearance of not being fully "bonded", it triggers sexual desire in the other one. Likewise if you behave like you are completely and totally attached to your spouse, there is no need to have sex with you. It won't get them aroused at all. I don't believe this is gender specific in any way.

Just keep in mind the "mild disloyalty" is very powerful stuff, only to be used with extreme care. If you overdo it, giving the impression that you might actually go outside the marriage, then the other person might just clam up and get ready to pull the ripcord on the whole relationship.
 

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This was the part I meant... At the bottom of his blog post.

Not for nothing, but the men that find MMSL on their own are always highly motivated to make change because they are deeply worried about how their relationship is going. Men simply don’t respond to “I’m unhappy”, “I’m unhaaaaaaaappy!” or “You suck! That’s why I’m so unhappy!” They do very much respond to wives dressing up nice and spending time with other men though.

I’m not saying it’s polite to do it, I’m just saying what works.


And I have to take issue with you saying my post started off "negative and criticising" - because it simply isn't, if you are referencing my original post. If you read through, I was explaining how I have taken positive action to change things I don't like about myself. Not negative and criticising, more positive change and outlook.
Are you sure you've problems with asserting yourself?
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Are you sure you've problems with asserting yourself?
Ha! I can't tell your tone but I'll take it as it reads... Yep. I have alwats been quite timid and very conflict-avoidant in an unhealthy way. That is something I have also been working on with some success - once I realised me and my voice is just as good as anyone else's.

Speaking up for myself generally is a real achievement. Feels very good whether it achieves anything or not. Small steps all add up.
Posted via Mobile Device
 

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OP, I would say it is developing good self-esteem, self respect and creating healthy boundaries. It's about living authentically and treating others with the same level of healthy respect with which we treat ourselves. It's about being strong enough to stand alone, but also being strong enough to allow ourselves to be vulnerable with another human being. It's about continuing to grow and allowing others the space to do the same.

I'm sure I'll think of other things, but that's a good start!
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
If the problem is that the husband is ignoring you sexually, then exhibiting "mild disloyalty" may be part of the solution. Sex is how men and women become emotionally bonded to each other such that they don't want sex with anyone else. So, when one partner gives the appearance of not being fully "bonded", it triggers sexual desire in the other one. Likewise if you behave like you are completely and totally attached to your spouse, there is no need to have sex with you. It won't get them aroused at all. I don't believe this is gender specific in any way.

Just keep in mind the "mild disloyalty" is very powerful stuff, only to be used with extreme care. If you overdo it, giving the impression that you might actually go outside the marriage, then the other person might just clam up and get ready to pull the ripcord on the whole relationship.
See, I get what you are saying, but I'm not sure I understand how that actually happens in practice. I can't see where one draws the line between what is okay and not okay. Is it being flirtatious? Showing to your spouse that you are attracted to someone else but not actually doing anything that enters the realm of EA/PA?
 

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See, I get what you are saying, but I'm not sure I understand how that actually happens in practice. I can't see where one draws the line between what is okay and not okay. Is it being flirtatious? Showing to your spouse that you are attracted to someone else but not actually doing anything that enters the realm of EA/PA?
I don't believe that it means flirting with others nor, heaven forbid, doing anything that borders on the realms of an EA/PA. I believe that it means making the very best of ourselves, from the inside out, and maintaining an attractive edge that our spouses will instinctively know others are likely to find attractive, too.
 
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I would be very interested to hear what people think about "womaning up" :D What kinds of things would people be offering as advice to a woman looking to woman up? I'm thinking the whole spectrum a la the advice offered to guys here so throw in anything you think personally or generally.
I'm not real sure why you would ask this in the men's forum but I would humbly hope that a woman looking to "woman up" would find herself resolving to choose relationship over separateness and choose helping her marriage over helping herself.
 

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See, I get what you are saying, but I'm not sure I understand how that actually happens in practice. I can't see where one draws the line between what is okay and not okay. Is it being flirtatious? Showing to your spouse that you are attracted to someone else but not actually doing anything that enters the realm of EA/PA?
I'm not really an expert in this, I don't do it myself as I don't have any need to. But I think a good place to start is leaving the house looking nice, and without any explanation. Light flirting and drawing the attention of other men is where it should stop. Definitely should not progress to anything resembling an EA, repeatedly flirting with the same person over time for example.
 

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Put your arms around your partner's neck, give a great kiss, and with out too many details, make an appointment for "whatever you want"..this is something I never get without hemming and hawing or garlic breath!
 

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Tobio....

I THINK it's really about being the best YOU that you can be. Sounds hokey... but that is what it is. Take care of yourself, which is sounds like you are. Be independent, able to do things for yourself but without feeling wussy about asking for help if you need it (plus he gets to feel like a big strong man for helping his woman).... look good, feel good, be proud of yourself and your strengths, work on your weaknesses...

And you know... the bottom line is that YOU will improve yourself, your outlook and your life. Whether it turns him on or not is another story.... but you will be better off either way for having taken stock and taken care of yourself!

Good luck... sounds like you are getting there.

PS... it is not about other men, or trying to make H jealous... it's all about you loving yourself and having confidence!
 
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