How do you know when it&#039;s a real..

Kasler

· #3 · Oct 24, 2012

Simple

If any 2 of the things in this list are in your marriage, you are in false R

- WS gets defensive

- WS is against giving away his/her privacy

- WS doesn't want to go to counseling

- WS is not helping you heal(some don't care to, but some genuinely don't know how)

The big ones Just 1 = false R

- WS is still in contact with affair partner

- WS blames you for the affair

- WS does not seem remorseful at all. Guilt and remorse are two different things

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B1

· #4 · Oct 24, 2012

A big red flag is when the WS gets defensive with questions. This is somewhat normal in the very begining, right after Dday. But, after a while, once that fog has lifted, they should answer questions without getting defensive at all. No shutting down, no attitude, none!

They should be understanding and compassionate about what you are going through. If you cry, they need to be there for you, holding you or at least asking "what can I do to help?"

You should see and feel their sorrow. Again, this may not be the case right after Dday and if they are still somewhat emotionally attached. You have not told us when Dday was, that would help with this.

One I really love that my WW does is; she asks me throughout the day "how are you doing?" This shows she really cares and it's on her mind. She knows I am hurting and wants to help stop that hurt.

Communications should flow freely. Talking should be the norm.

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Wazza

· #5 · Oct 25, 2012

Kasler said:
Simple

If any 2 of the things in this list are in your marriage, you are in false R

- WS gets defensive

- WS is against giving away his/her privacy

- WS doesn't want to go to counseling

- WS is not helping you heal(some don't care to, but some genuinely don't know how)

The big ones Just 1 = false R

- WS is still in contact with affair partner

- WS blames you for the affair

- WS does not seem remorseful at all. Guilt and remorse are two different things

Not 100% sure...my wife was defensive and had no idea how to help me heal...I see those as natural.

Earlier in the piece she also refused counselling, but at that stage she was still seeing OM, so I guess reconciliation was slightly suboptimal at that point

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Wazza

· #6 · Oct 25, 2012

betrayed1 said:
A big red flag is when the WS gets defensive with questions. This is somewhat normal in the very begining, right after Dday. But, after a while, once that fog has lifted, they should answer questions without getting defensive at all. No shutting down, no attitude, none!

They should be understanding and compassionate about what you are going through. If you cry, they need to be there for you, holding you or at least asking "what can I do to help?"

You should see and feel their sorrow. Again, this may not be the case right after Dday and if they are still somewhat emotionally attached. You have not told us when Dday was, that would help with this.

One I really love that my WW does is; she asks me throughout the day "how are you doing?" This shows she really cares and it's on her mind. She knows I am hurting and wants to help stop that hurt.

Communications should flow freely. Talking should be the norm.

That might be EI's nature....she is very warm and open from what I have seen.

My wife is always defensive still. But she tries to be open....mostly, and imperfectly.

I will never know the full truth....I just have to let it go.

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cpacan

· #7 · Oct 25, 2012

I think I asked the same question when I was about 6 months past DD.

In my opinion you can't have a general checklist for true/false R, people are different. There could be different definitions to what R means to different people, different reactions to various questions/actions. Situations in marriages may seem similar but be different in nature regardless.

What do you need from your marriage? Answers may be diiferent. To some people it's natural to demand and offer transparency on an emotional level. Others may find that hard but have the "right" intentions dispite this.

In my book at least, it's not that black and white, you need to make up your own mind and define what YOU need from your marriage and partner, and assess whether you are having these needs met or not.

For me; I am not convinced that we are in true R, but we both make an effort to share some good, bad, tolerable days together - at the moment. This is important to me - at the moment, I haven't signed up for any more or less. Our marriage have transformed into something different, and I live it one day at a time, one foot in front of the other.

I see each and every day as a blessing, try not to worry about tomorrow, where things may or may not explode in my face. So you can say that our relationship may last, or it may not, for a number of reasons.

And I try not to care, because today is a good day.

Take care, live in the moment, make the choices that are right for YOU in this moment.

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Remains

· #8 · Oct 25, 2012

Wazza said:
That might be EI's nature....she is very warm and open from what I have seen.

My wife is always defensive still. But she tries to be open....mostly, and imperfectly.

I will never know the full truth....I just have to let it go.

Is that not the point though? To have true R they have to be totally honest. Otherwise those walls and barriers of untruth remain and make it almost impossible to truly 100% get over it.

In answer to how do you know, that list by Kasler is very good. My Wayward was defensive, angry at me, accused me of being paranoid and name calling me, refused to talk, never (rarely) asked me how I was or if I was ok, the odd time he did & I told him what was up he brought out the anger and accusations. The list goes on. He thought that by being helpful, loving, lovely, I had all his passwords too (because it was over), that that would make it all go away. He had changed therefore I should just get over it. And yeah, he said 'you just have to trust me now'...excuse me while I choke!.

And yeah, he was lying about it all, lying about the reality of the A, sugar coating it.

Anger and defensiveness and refusals to talk, name calling at you that there is something wrong with you that you want to talk, that you are dragging it up, that you will never get over it...this is all manipulative behaviour designed to shut you up so that they don't have to give you the truth.

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Kallan Pavithran

· #9 · Oct 25, 2012

Wazza said:
That might be EI's nature....she is very warm and open from what I have seen.

My wife is always defensive still. But she tries to be open....mostly, and imperfectly.

I will never know the full truth....I just have to let it go.

Then how can you say you are in true R?

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LetDownNTX

· #10 · Oct 25, 2012

Wazza said:
That might be EI's nature....she is very warm and open from what I have seen.

My wife is always defensive still. But she tries to be open....mostly, and imperfectly.

I will never know the full truth....I just have to let it go.

My H is a defensive type also. It doesnt matter what the question is he is rather snappy. He doesnt really like being asked anything and especially if its something that might involve my thinking he is up to something when he claims he is not.

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LetDownNTX

· #11 · Oct 25, 2012

Kallan Pavithran said:
Then how can you say you are in true R?

I dont think every WS is going to act the same way or do the same things. We are all different and are brought up differently. To expect everyone to be an open and honest book because they should be is not possible (atleast I dont think). I honestly think it depends on their personality type. Im not justifying anything for anyone, Im just saying that we cant expect all people to follow the same path and react the same.

Look at the people that have been cheated on...some are ready to have a bonfire with the WS's things and blow up the house, others are so hurt and devastated they cant even see the future.

JMO!

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Gabriel

· #12 · Oct 25, 2012

Defensiveness is natural. But not knowing the full truth is a barrier to getting to the next level, IMHO.

The refusing to relinquish privacy is bang on. My W did this, and sure enough, she broke NC during that time.

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ArmyofJuan

· #13 · Oct 25, 2012

Katso said:
How do you know it's a real reconciliation? how can you tell if the WS is just coasting..

If you have any doubt, then it's not.

When its real they will go way out of their way to reassure you to the point where its annoying.

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underwater2010

· #14 · Oct 25, 2012

Remorse, honesty and transparency.

My most recent example:

I was wearing an old shirt with the bar logo on it because I had to drop off food to the teenager. When he got home I was cooking with my back to him. When I turned around he looked sad and hurt. I asked what was wrong. He asked me if I got called into work. When I said no his face lit up like a boy that got a box of fireworks. We spent the night eating, talking and the great sex followed. Mind you he is sick with sinus, cough and sore throat.

It has been a long time since he was disappointed that I might not get to be home.

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cpacan

· #15 · Oct 25, 2012

ArmyofJuan said:
If you have any doubt, then it's not.

When its real they will go way out of their way to reassure you to the point where its annoying.

Not everybody is like this. It needs to be genuine as well. everybody can pretend.

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Wazza

· #16 · Oct 25, 2012 (Edited)

Remains said:
Is that not the point though? To have true R they have to be totally honest. Otherwise those walls and barriers of untruth remain and make it almost impossible to truly 100% get over it.

Remains said:
Anger and defensiveness and refusals to talk, name calling at you that there is something wrong with you that you want to talk, that you are dragging it up, that you will never get over it...this is all manipulative behaviour designed to shut you up so that they don't have to give you the truth.

The affair was 22 years ago. At the time I reached a point where I gave up on the marriage, stayed for the kids. It was pointless to talk things out since I was no longer in love anyway.

Over time we healed and over time we talked. But we have also both rewritten history in our heads, and there are things I remember clearly that my wife insists are not true. Which of us is wrong? How to know?

She says to me at one stage she stopped denying certain things simply because I wasn't believing her so there was no point to the discussion.

I know a lot of the core stuff. I don't know some details, and that includes a lot of things that are not that central, along with a couple of important things where I simply cannot reconcile what my wife and I recall. If we were 22 days out I'd say she was lying and I was rugsweeping...22 years is a lot of time for deception to be caught out.

She doesn't like to talk about it because it hurts her. She doesn't refuse, but when we get onto uncomfortable territory she gets uncomfortable and defensive in how she says things.

All of which is consistent with how she is as a person. She is fundamentally honest and decent. Very much so. And for me part of the journey was understanding how an honest person could do what she did.

And I expect I will never 100% get over it. Does anyone?

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Wazza

· #17 · Oct 25, 2012

Kallan Pavithran said:
Then how can you say you are in true R?

How does anyone know for sure?

Almost 30 years of marriage with consistent behaviour apart from a six month affair where she went uncharacteristically whacko, 22 years ago.

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Hope1964

· #18 · Oct 25, 2012

This post by another member sums it up nicely, I think

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/58880-trust-future.html#post1157699

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