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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
We separated 4 1/2 mths ago , ex and daughter are living in a rental 10 mins away. ex has been very good about my D stuff for her and also all of our messed up finances through all this .
I can come and go, take D out places, stay over hrs with her and she usually stays here w/ends and some of the holidays.

But lately D's getting upset staying usually on the first night then she comes good. It's been hard on her and I'm still in the family home so memories to. She also misses her mum now because they're together much more than us so alll round a bit of anxiety for her lately. Things are also sinking in more of course .
So 4 or 5 times now we've called mum to come and get her , she's just been too upset and I hated seeing that. She's 11. But since child counselors have said to persist , get her through it until she comes good.
But at times my wife's also rang early and even joined up with D a few times behind my back to get her home earlier , usually some little thing as an excuse .
Being new at this worried about my D I've agreed but they have cut short the last 4 or 5 stays and some really important holiday week long stays, crucial turning points for my d and usually she'd turned the corner and we were really enjoying ourselves.
So my w/ends went from Frid night pick her up and Sun night dropping offs to visiting Sundays instead or pick her up Sat instead of Fridays.
This weekend we were suppose to start going back to Frid arvo pick ups and start helping her back being able to stay the whole w/end again like she use too.
It was a crucial new turning point start for us , get this back on track.

Well , my ex text me Friday saying D had a tummy ache , it was for real and she had to pick her up at school and could I come over Sat morning instead.
This has been happening for 7wks now at all sorts of times , we needed to start getting back on track. I was really disappointed and suss but I agreed.
Sat it turns out they went from school Frid and up to do all this shopping , clothes and groceries for 4hrs . I was that angry , either one or both had lied , I lost our new start and our Frid, again and , we just finished talking about how to handle this for her a week before , this was our new start.
I lost it a bit , accused her of lying , controlling my daughter, being a sneaky [email protected] , acting like a little lamb and how she's ruined our life and 10 yrs of work , now trying to steal the one thing I have left my D .
She looked hurt and upset but also arrogant and shaking her head , just like she did for 18yrs I thought wtf , this was a blatant lie and in with my D . I said your teaching her , rewarding her that she doesn't have to stay over. And after last week , all our talk . I was that [email protected] off.
She did stuff like this all the time when we were married , so many times I got the shaking of the head , you could never get the biggest things in your world , things that'd effect my life too , across to her , so I was [email protected]
Then we left but when I dropped her off tonight , my ex wouldn't talk and didn't want me to come inside , this was a first.
I can also tell that she'd probably talked to someone - alone and only telling her side of the story , over the w/end. Just like she was doing when we separated.
The look on her face, this is the person that destroyed my life and now she has the one thing I have left and with her 24/7, does stuff like this .

I want our peace and mostly cooperation back for me and my daughter.
How to handle this?
If we don't get back on track it's gonna make things really really hard and unfair on my d and I.
On the other hand , it's also been too weird being in her house , around her, it's only for d but how else can you get so much together without it being harder on d .
 

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Step one. Calm yourself. You need to be in control and assertive.

Correct me if I am off base but seems you are keeping the role you had within the marriage?

She is in control and you are allowing yourself to be led to keep the peace?
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks KC.
In a way , she was only sort of in control then , but our life was very complicated. I did owe her and my daughter stability finally later in our marriage so for that reason we did do things her way later on.
But that was as much about stability for my daughter after 5 homes in 6 yrs so yes but no.
Now , with all this , I'm not sure.
Again , W has bent over backwards to help my and my D in any way she can . And yes , I've ignored a lot of anger too , for my daughter . If you'd call that lead well , not sure !

I've realized there's for sure been a few times I should've stopped this or insisted on that too but my D's had a lot to cope with and that's why .At other times my W should've to though.

Are you thinking this stunt on Frid was bs ?
Well I'm pretty sure it was but if we don't back up a bit from here after the fight , then we could end up like all those other separated parents ruining their kids lives - couldn't we ?

So how do I salvage it or should I ?
 

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WH

I know you're pissed off at her but you know in your heart that you want to salvage it.

KC is right, first calm yourself. I know this is hard.

Don't engage her on any of this for a while, let the dust settle.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
WH

I know you're pissed off at her but you know in your heart that you want to salvage it.

KC is right, first calm yourself. I know this is hard.

Don't engage her on any of this for a while, let the dust settle.

Thanks BW , as if you don't have enough problems of your own so thanks again.
Yeah I think you might be right though , very good first step for starters.
I just hope we can salvage what's left because it wasn't perfect but near as close as it can get compared to most separated couples . And it's about my D and me !

I think she was talking to someone over the w/end and probably one of those great girls that told her to break up her family. And again they would have only heard her side and looking like roses.
 

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Nothing worse than the negative reinforcement some of these WS get from other people, be it friends or family. And it's so frustrating as there is absolutely nothing you can do to combat it.

I've learned the hard way not to engage mine. Ever. Finally realized she WANTED me to get really angry, make a scene, storm out. Then she could say, look what an angry, unreasonable idiot he is.
 

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Hawk,

Everytime you lose control of yourself emotionally, you reinforce ex's perception of you as a weak man.

And, she acts accordingly.

It's like you're braced for the next insult and then you explode when she does exactly as she has always done.

It's the same pattern as your marriage, but now you're not even getting the mercy sex.



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I've got two words for you..... "Parental Alienation".

Basically what she's doing is trying to use your duaghter as a weapon in this divorce war. Anytime she's unhappy and you're not she's going to make up some excuse to keep her from you and any time she's with your daughter she's brainwashing her about you. To put it bluntly, you could be together eating dinner and she would make up some excuse to get her daughter away from you or keep you from seeing her.
Why Some Borderline, Narcissistic and Histrionic Mothers Sabotage their Children | Shrink4Men

It's abusive to say the least, but it's most abusive to your daughter who doesn't know what she's done to deserve this. Your best bet to disarm your wife is to just agree with her and stop fighting with her when she makes up lies to keep you away from her daughter. I don't know what you did to deserve this, if anything because I've known betrayed mothers here who did the exact same thing and cried about f*cking up their reconcilation chances, but THIS IS NOT YOUR FAULT AND YOU DID NOT CAUSE IT.

All you have to remember here is that if you act like you're happy and indifferent about her decision to play "gimme!" with your daughter, she will stop doing it. It's like a kid with a toy they aren't playing with. She doesn't want her daughter that badly until you have it, just to spite you. So if you act like you're doing her a favor by giving her back or keeping her when she's "too sick to see you", she'll stop getting the negative reincorcement she's looking for and will stop using her daughter as an indian speaking stick.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Nothing worse than the negative reinforcement some of these WS get from other people, be it friends or family. And it's so frustrating as there is absolutely nothing you can do to combat it.

I've learned the hard way not to engage mine. Ever. Finally realized she WANTED me to get really angry, make a scene, storm out. Then she could say, look what an angry, un

Really , yeah , and we know it too so !
Yeah but stay away from the friends and inlaws BW , been my theory day one. I haven't even seen the inlaws once , they have to back her. And if I see any of our old friends now , I don't go there but I know she's paved her story.
One of them told me a few things one day but I just said oh really , well there's two sides to every story you know but - I'll leave it at that.
She was most intrigued and pushed it but I said no look I'll leave it, she knows it wasn't right. She's a gossip to so will spread the word !
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Hawk,

Everytime you lose control of yourself emotionally, you reinforce ex's perception of you as a weak man.

@ Sorry man , one of her complaints was that I was actually too tough , too hard but I do see your point on this one and similar in the past.

And, she acts accordingly.

@ yes and no Con . There's not an ex in this whole TAM , that's tried so hard to keep the peace , been as fair mostly and even bent over backwards to help tidy up the mess left as my ex has , I've yet to see one even close . Mind you , I realize 1/2 of it's guilt money but hey , I have plenty of that too.


It's like you're braced for the next insult and then you explode when she does exactly as she has always done.

@ Maybe , in ways !

It's the same pattern as your marriage, but now you're not even getting the mercy sex.
@ Yeah this was always one of her traits . Nope , we were never into it :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
I've got two words for you..... "Parental Alienation".

Basically what she's doing is trying to use your duaghter as a weapon in this divorce war. Anytime she's unhappy and you're not she's going to make up some excuse to keep her from you and any time she's with your daughter she's brainwashing her about you. To put it bluntly, you could be together eating dinner and she would make up some excuse to get her daughter away from you or keep you from seeing her.
Why Some Borderline, Narcissistic and Histrionic Mothers Sabotage their Children | Shrink4Men

It's abusive to say the least, but it's most abusive to your daughter who doesn't know what she's done to deserve this. Your best bet to disarm your wife is to just agree with her and stop fighting with her when she makes up lies to keep you away from her daughter. I don't know what you did to deserve this, if anything because I've known betrayed mothers here who did the exact same thing and cried about f*cking up their reconcilation chances, but THIS IS NOT YOUR FAULT AND YOU DID NOT CAUSE IT.

All you have to remember here is that if you act like you're happy and indifferent about her decision to play "gimme!" with your daughter, she will stop doing it. It's like a kid with a toy they aren't playing with. She doesn't want her daughter that badly until you have it, just to spite you. So if you act like you're doing her a favor by giving her back or keeping her when she's "too sick to see you", she'll stop getting the negative reincorcement she's looking for and will stop using her daughter as an indian speaking stick.

Yeah I dunno NS. She's been really good about everything to do with her , she even hopes I do stay in the area close by for her.
She was stoked when I told her I wanted too and said oh thank God . Youknow we are one thing but you'll still always be D's dad , she loves you so much and I want that too.
And she also insists I come over anytime I want , hang out with her or take her somewhere if we want . And that she hopes she'll get comfortable about coming out here anytime she wants.She's even said oh look , if she wants too she can stay out with you week nights to , mix it up.

She even offers to go out while I visit her if I'd rather and leaves me tea in the oven.
The other day she said - to be honest I think if you do move over to - where I'm thinking about - I think she'll wanna come and shack up with you for awhile .
I mean none of this would fit that bill would it ?

She is very soft with her though and has also complained to that she can never go shopping with her anymore because she works weekdays but D's here on the w/ends so.

I dunno .

To that I even said well look youknow it doesn't have to be religion , you guys can still go shopping any time you want .

She's accomodated me dozens of times too.

One night even I couldn'y sleep , missed D , so I went round at 11 oclock just to give her a cuddle . W was fine , oh come in come in , I understand , just go in and sit with her as long as you want - D was in bed .

ps I dunno I did just read through all that too and to be honest I don't really recodnize any of that in this. I mean yeah there's been a few earlu pick ups but some my D has rung her and some D asked her before I even picked her up .

D's always had bad anxiety staying out anywhere see. All her friends sleep over here , she can't do a sleepover. She's getting better now though but of course this is different , upsetting , everything that's happened , it's a lot for anyone.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Been thinking about this situation , and some of the stuff said here.
I also found out she was actually on her way to shopping when the school called. She couldn't run her back 15mins and just leave her on her own sick or lose another 35mins running her over to me because she's working 6days a week right now and Frid nights the only chance she gets.so they both went. Later D felt better but apparently the shrinks said that is normal because the anxieties gone which causes bad tummy aches in children.

But it also isn't good enough , we've both been give and take but I'm losing more time with D than her. Gonna have to start getting some stuff in place here and stop it always being on my time whatever the reason.

I'm also thinking it's damn lousy being in that house like this anyway so if that does stop then so be it.
The only problem is again though , making up that time with my D .
The idea was to be with her , see her bedroom , watch tv , kiss her off to sleep , be in her world sort of , that's why I've been going. Also to help ease some of her anxiety about the split. It's much easier for them if they see their parents are still ok with each other

Not the same just taking her out somewhere instead that's the problem . .
 

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What!? How much are you talking to her?

The idea is to implement the 180 and stop giving her reassurance that you'll still be around if she wants to divorce you or keep cheating. Not tell her you're going to be in the neighborhood in case she wants a booty call. What's the matter with you? Has your wife been so emotionally abusive that you're willing to kiss her ass if she makes you a cup of tea, or if she tells you she might want you back if you play by her rules?

I don't mean to be hard on you. I went through the same exact thing and fell madly in love with me cheating wife for cooking me an egg and giving me a half-assed back rub. I know you WANT to feel like your efforts are working but it's way too soon to tell and you need to keep reminding yourself of your boundaries. I don't think you want to end up being her "best straight-girlfriend" do you? That guy who she comes to for emotional support so she can whine and complain about how all the men she's sleeping with are losers and she wishes she could fin one like you, but NOT YOU. You are much better than a pity f*ck once in a blue moon after you jump through hoope for her!
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
You've got it wrong Nsweet baby I'm afraid.
I don't want sex , us back , nothing. I did want my family back but not in as much her if that makes sense.

It's not about that , it's all only about more time with my d , and us both trying to make this somehow better and easier for her.
It's fact , by far the happiest for the kids is parents throwing aside their own bs and work together for the kids.
Her cooking me meals , helping with our finances - nothing tio do with me , it's just helping to make it nicer for my d and hey - won't have to cook will i.
I don't like being there , none of the dads do but it's for the kids , how else can you be with them more , you can't ask more than what they';re already living - for your bs. !
180 - my version since day one of sorts. my versions my better for the kids and that's what I care about

PS . I haven't done one thing for her since we split , nothing.
She's been bending over backwards for me .
Told her day one , the fkg mess you leave us in , tell you what you better stick around to clear it up - and my daughter , or I'll take the lot and my daughter.
That's what l told her ! Still stands by the way . B ut I don't want it like that , what sort of alternative is that !
She's not seeing anyone now either , I was originally .
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Forgot to mention , she called today , Daughter stuff .

It went well , she's talkin again which was my first worry , don't want my d around any more trouble between us.

Anyway , looks like it wasn't such a bad thing me losing it last wk after all. It's reminded her a bit about this **** from where I stand.
She had some really good ideas actually , better for my d , more time with her for me and hopefully helps her with the anxiety a bit.

So we're starting that this wkend , it's good stuff , really looking forward to it.
Takin her to the movies tomorrow night , we went to the beach last night .
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
Although , in some areas , like w being happy that I'm staying local.
Plan B , I dunno. for me it's all about still being able to be as much a dad as u can like this , and my daughter wanting me as close as poss'
When this new block came up , it was about all that for me too and a very nice lifestyle . I ytied to buy this block 4yrs ago , couldn't get it then .
I spose to yeah , in the back of my mind poss' recon down track , door open but , I dunno about that one now , if I'd even want to anyway, then there's trust.

If I go this way , I'd be going on with life , I'd probably meet someone new anyway , still be close to my daughter.
 

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So what you're trying to accomplish is a 180 that allows you to set healthy boundaries and still spend time with your kid(s)? Am I reading that right? You don't want to get back together, but you don't want to cause problems for your children that may affect them later on in life.

Dude, you don't have to try to make this up as you go. There are advice columns and articles, books and ebooks, written by established marriage counselors strictly about this for dads in your position. Why don't you do a little digging and see what you can find on your own and then ask others here what they think. I'm sure you'll find the path that allows you to be a great dad and not have to deal with any mind games or all of that BS.... You're not out of the woods yet!
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
So what you're trying to accomplish is a 180 that allows you to set healthy boundaries and still spend time with your kid(s)? Am I reading that right? You don't want to get back together, but you don't want to cause problems for your children that may affect them later on in life.

Dude, you don't have to try to make this up as you go. There are advice columns and articles, books and ebooks, written by established marriage counselors strictly about this for dads in your position. Why don't you do a little digging and see what you can find on your own and then ask others here what they think. I'm sure you'll find the path that allows you to be a great dad and not have to deal with any mind games or all of that BS.... You're not out of the woods yet!

Thanks NS.
I'm not sure what I want anymore
, or whats right.
I've read plenty of 180 stuff , I dunno. To be honest I think a lot of it's pretty damaging in a way.
It's all boundries and games - yeah it is games , others have said it and I agree.
It also closes most doors prematurely I think.
Look anything can happen . couples regret , they become friends , they often get back , they often don't , anything and combo.
But we're tied for yrs with my D , our finances and many lose ends . All that ****s pretty hard as it is but if your fkg with each other it's only gonna get worse.
You don't want worse , you want it as peaceful and workable as possible .

For the kids alone , that makes the best possible situation by far , out of this ugliness , it's fact .
The better the parents are with each other the less stress on your children , the less stress all round.

It's a couple of weeks later now and she still swears black and blue that she wants our- my d and me , as normal and together as poss'.
D's a tough little ****** in some ways though and x reckons now that I'm not around she can't get her to do anything so that's another angle , damned if I know.
 

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So what you're saying is.... You're not sure, and you heard your ex say she's not sure. Am I reading this right?

Look, this is exactly where you want to be. You're still at a vulnerable time right now so don't f*ck it up with anything stupid like calling her up just to fight. But the "I don't know" stage is good, neutral, but good.

You're still fresh into the D process that you can start over and rebuild. For right now keep up with the NC/LC as much as possible and get yourself into therapy. Seriously, you need therapy because one bad day, or one argument, may be all that stands between starting over and keeping a grudge for the rest of your life.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Thanks NS . A little bit of phone counseling is the best I can do in my area but it's been pretty good.
We haven't actually fort much at all through all this actually , this was probably this first time, after anyway, I've lost it. That's what made it scary actually because she's a stranger right now and she has my D . No telling what she might respond with.
But the good news is it's blown over and we've been working 1oo% together on my d's stuff and that's improving.
Bad news is I feel that much anger at ex lately for doing this to her family, d. Yes I messed up , yes I carelessly hurt her but I didn't quit on us or my d .
Have been working through it again though with people here , for the second or third time now but , guess that's why it's called a roller coaster !
 
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