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Hit a roadblock in our reconciliation - need advise

12K views 56 replies 21 participants last post by  KanDo 
#1 ·
Yesterday while trying to resolve an issue with phone bills, I stumbled across one month I had previously ignored from last January where my WS and the OM exchanged texts over 1200 times. I wasn't digging and I've been trying hard to put it all behind me. It just hit me in the face as a trigger. I then couldn't get information about recent billing because I didn't know the passcode and security questions and the account was in my wifes name. Another trigger from the days where she was changing everything to hide things from me. She doesn't remember doing it. Long story short, I lost it and sent it texts asking what was going on that month and telling her I wanted EVERYTHING in my name because I was tired of being told I couldn't get information. I also texted her I was imploding with pain and getting very angry. This was all when she was at work. She was extremely torn up and fearful of coming home. Today she went to IPsych and he told her she never needed to take that kind of abuse. She told me when she got home she couldn't live with that. I told her I was doing my best to get over the 20 years of cheating and 3 men and she needed to understand and accept that I would sometimes loose control. It has only happened with this level of response once in two months since we started to reconcile and one other minor time. I feel as though I need to be cut a little bit of slack and more praised than bounced for a few events. She said she just can't handle it and is dealing with her problems from guilt and deserves consideration as well. I feel like she is telling me I can't ever get angry and I don't feel like there is ANY relationship out there that doesn't have strong arguments once in a while. She has said the hurt she has felt when I get mad is what drove her away. I responded that it was no excuse for her affair - she alone made the decision to go for comfort elsewhere and a sexual affair instead on asking for marriage counseling. I told her it has been hard to put it behind me and deal with it and thought I needed to commended for how well I was doing but I could never guarantee it wouldn't happen again. My PTSD when it happens makes it impossible for me to shut down and walk away. I told her I would do my best to pull back and not text or email and would also have to stop talking until I settled down. I also told her I felt she need consider what was happening to me and comfort me not attack back like she did yesterday. Consider what was happening and not take it so personally which she always does and in the past ran away to the OM.

Am I expecting too much? I feel like this new psychiatrist is treating her alone and not considering the MC and R going on or what I've been through. We don't have another mC session until Monday and she is going to her Nieces for a babay shower this weekend. I feel like I did when things were real bad and don't think it can wait. She seems to think we need to resolve it at MC and stop talking about it. We will she when gets home later. I'm wound up tight and feel like I'm going to explode becuase it feels like she isn't committed even though she says she is.
 
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#28 ·
It was a long while ago but we reconciled and spent the next 31 years together.

But my situation was nothing like yours, it bears no comparison at all. I know I couldn’t cope if my wife had been cheating on me for 20 years. I wouldn’t be able to cope with it. I’d need to get away and rediscover myself because I would have been so seriously systematically abused and deluded about what I thought the last 20 years were all about. I just don’t see how you can rebuild yourself while still living with your wife.
 
#29 ·
wow, too much.

i agree w/ afeh on this one. i mean c'mon man, 20yrs worth
of deception. i wont elaborate as many have here already,
including yerself.

i'm surprised some "mature" folk posted pro WS material here
tho'.....very surprised.

if i were a MC counseling you, i'd say some of what u r already
dealing with. anger outbursts; trust issues; how to deal with
'em etc. no guilt nec to HEAP upon you, in addition to what u
r already dealing with. I'd place spirituality as key to yer peace
of mind, survival, and overcoming this tragic experience.

if i were her MC, i'd be getting at IF she is truly sorry/repentent
for what she did to you, herself, the Union, and most of all, God.

if she indeed were, her actions/deeds would show it, not just a
lot of LIP Service, like so many do. I'd tell her she needs to have a heart of understanding towards you and yer anger-pain-trust related outbursts. instead of her reacting to them, she could use trigger phrases you've both agreed upon, to relieve the tension of the moment.

if she were'nt really sorry/repentant for deceiveing you, then
we would have to investigate the whys/why not. in fact, we'd
have to investigate this area even if she were sorry/repent for
it could raise its ugly head again or in other harmful ways.

i think, unless u were some kinda control freak/tyrant or some such, the balance of "the to do list" should be on the WS not the victim. Not that u dont have some work yerself to do, but
i'm sick of reading here from some folk that the BS has to
carry the load on too many fronts cause the Marriage almost
becomes like a sacred cow itself, and must be maintained at any
cost, when one party is willing to SUFFER the ordeal.

i think that is a recipie for disaster, to the BS, that is.
Marriage must be consentual, if not perfectly balanced at all
times.

[key note: i banged this out. no prior drafts. hope i covered major angles here. if u shoot, shoot straight...lol]

shalom............
 
#30 ·
It was certainly spirituality that helped heal my soul, mainly through Buddhism with a little bit of Christianity in the mix. Whatever works and it can take some searching to find what works. And time. Time is a great healer but it does depend a lot on what we do with it. I hope 8years finds the path into the light out of the jungle he’s in.
 
#31 · (Edited)
I have been following your thread and I feel a sense of outrage at what you are being asked to do by your therapists. I agree with cb45 tha you are carrying the emotional burden of a deception that lasted throughout your entire marriage. She had essentially had two relationships for 20 years, one for children, financial support and convience and one to meet her emotional and sexual needs. During those years, you, her steadfast and trusting spouse, had only her to rely on. I think she is with you for convience still. Her reactions to your suffering is cruel and cold in nature it seems. She is not willing to endure any suffering or to help you get through your suffering and it has only been a few months!!

Why do you make yourself available for her convience still. she can't even be bothered to comfort you that shows how little she regards your feelings. About as little as she has ever regarded them. I don't put much stock in therapist if their goals are not consistent with your's as an individulal. It is almost as if the marriage is more important than you. That's not true the, union is as good as the people forming it and the way I see it you have no union.

I understand your unwillingness to face this full on but I think the woman you are married to does not love you enough to think you feelings are important. She is more concerned with herself and her comfort. I don't think she respects you because she has been able to pull the wool over your eyes for so long and she is still enjoying your support and devotion. What a life she has had, prety good for a heartless deceptive woman. The advice you are getting about trusting a naturally deceptive person as the height of stupidity. You are the wounded party however you are being asked to carry all of the emotional pain. I don't get the feeling she has had a moment of real regret or suffering, I'll bet she is congratulating herself on getting away with the ultimate deception and being married to a gullible trusting man. Why are you being chastised for making her life difficult? It is unbelievable, you are nothing, she is every thing why is that?

I am sorry if this offends you but I feel so angry when I read of you struggle and I cannot stay silent. The person you love is really not the person she is, she never was that person. I think you have still not fully digested the full scope of what has happened and that you should not recommit so easily to staying married. I don' think you have experienced true love and it would be good if you could in your life. Why are you trying so hard to keep this together? Surely not for love, love is a two way street. I don't get a sense she loves you now or has ever done, so why are you keeping up this fiction? I can see why she would but I don't understand what you get out of it.

Nothing is written in stone and I think you don't have to tell her that you are exploring leaving, she does not need to know.until you have made up your mind and I don't think you shoul make up your mind so soon. In fact, instead of being so vigilant with her, disengage and be totally selfish and go out and explore life. Get out and see what new things you would like to do. Relieve the suffering by self care doing things away from her building a separate life from her. You may find that after a time, you do not want her. If you leave you will not suffer any more than you are now but, you have the advantage of starting anew away from a deceptive person who very well may decide that you are too much trouble and leave. Become more misterious and treat her in a more offhand way. Get new clothes, work out, get new interest. Take the focus fro her and bring it back to you. If you divorce you have the chance to meet someone who loves and appreciates you and can offer you some splice in the years to come.

I see no future with the women you are married to. She deceived you before and she likely to fall into the same pattern when thing quite down, I think you stand a good chance of years of sorrow and uncertainty because she is a good liar. I think you will come to regret you chioce to stay because you will never get the love and reassurence you are looikng for with her. Is not the uncertainty of a life without her better than one with her constant presence and possibility of deception? Take you time and think this through, look at the future with her, what you have now is what you will have in the future it will only get worse with time she will be back up to her antics in a year or two when she thinks she has you docile again. Is she worth it?
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#32 ·
Catherine I agree she has been self centered and not sufficiently understanding and supportive of what I'm going through. I also will not let my feeling become a crutch for hurting her by hammering her on the affair. I still have my moments where I wonder if I made the right decision to R. I look back on 20 years of this and three men and ask myself what was real and what wasn't in terms of how much she loved me. I can't reconcile that she loved me at all and that I was just being used as provider and caretaker. I also know she could go deep underground using prepaid phones and I would never be able to detect it. All I can do is what my MC suggested - take a chance and believe she honestly does not want to back living a lie. She has told me she can't answer why she kept it up so long except that she never believed she would be caught so didn't really think she was hurting me because I didn't know and she didn't think I ever would. She also told me she seriously considered suicide several times because her guilt made her feel like the most evil person for carrying on. She is seeing a psychiatrist to try and get her depression (which I think is bipolar) under control. She says she regrets it all and wishes she could take it all back. She also says she understands the destruction she caused me and is now backing off on telling me she feels accused when I ask questions because she understands it's going to take a very long time to rebuild my trust in her. She also understands she needs to be extra loving to keep me strong and must watch for my times when I hit triggers and talk me down. If she hadn't turned this way recently, I was ready to walk away. So things are doing better but still a daily struggle for me. I know the person she was during this affair is not the person I loved - it never will be. All I can do is watch and hope what she tells me is real. Now that I know the behaviors she exhibits when she is unfaithful - hindsight is better than 20/20 - it's much clearer now - I think I can detect it if it starts going off track again. There will be no third chance. If it even starts going back off track she will be gone from this house and my life and she knows it.

So - I appreciate your support very much Catherine. Here I sit praying she is on the right course and starting to support the way I need to be to be supported and deserve to be.
 
#33 ·
I so much hope she is loving you very much; you diserve the best there is. I am concerned though that you are not asking enough nor expecting enough. You are the injured party, if she is too self centered to see that then she will never see it.

I am going to play devils advocate and say to please keep in mind that you have many years more in a relationship with a person who is capable of deception if she thinks she won't be found out. That means she has no internal moral compass to control her actions. There is no telling what she will do in the years to come when you have decreased your vigilance and she is tempted.

I understand your being careful because she says she is depressed. Usually, people with bipolar disorder are medicated, has her physician put her on meds? If she is on no medication then I doubt if she has a serious depression or bipolar disorder. Remember, if she is telling you this and you have not communicated with her physician then you have only the word of a habitual liar. You only have her word that she was suicidal. Telling you that shift the sympathy meter away from you and to her which is manipulative. You don't know if she really felt that way or just saying that for the affect that it has on a caring loving man.
 
#34 ·
I am asking for what I need and after a long talk Sun AM, I think she is beggining to understand how severely all of this has affected me. She said she understands she is going to have help me come down or pull me back up if I start feeling either afraid or severely unhappy because of triggers or thinking about what has happened. She also seems to be getting that she will have to not take my explaining how I feel as an attack, to control her or to accuse. I will choose my words carefully. She will need to consider that I am on edge and needs to be ahead of the game talking me down - my suggestion to her. She voiced twice that afternoon (while crying) that she was so sorry for tearing me up and that she is going to do everything she can to help me heal. I feel positive and much more like I'm not alone dealing with it. My IC supported my efforts and told me he thought I was doing amazingly well. I've suggested the MC , her IC and mine all talk. I'm also going to ask some questions of her IC - like - is he trained in MC? Has he made any determination based on her hard cycling from deep depression to the "all me" behaviour which I feel is manic? What is his diagnosis at this point? Does he plan any medication changes?And finally the suggestion about cross communication between the MC and my IC and him. We will see what happens.
 
#35 ·
It's another one of those days. I'm grieving the fact that wife hated me for 20 years enough to do this in spite of my stupidity for completely trusting her and being very much in love. I now see the times clearly when her hate was at it's peak. Why she didn't want to make love or cuddle. 20 years of my life when I could have built a relationship with a woman who truly loved me instead of being used. My wife keeps saying put it behind me and she has done just that . It wasn't her life she controlled it was mine without my knowledge and it's a hell of a lot harder to put it behind me than it is for her. I think she gets it to degree, but not enough. Goig to the range to burn off some anger and distract myself from this pain..
 
#37 ·
I've decided my youngest is my daughter regardless and am not going to test. If it ever comes to a medical emergency then I'll have the test done. In any case she is my daughter and the OM will never know if she isn't.
 
#38 ·
Blood test doesn't make a father the relationship does!. Hope you had some center mass hits to blow off that steam. Don't blame yourself with stupidity though, definitly not your fault. She made the decision not you. You remained true to the core and values from everything you say. It is easy to believe until you have a reason not to. I even doubt if my W is going to work at times now.
I will in my case accept our M was not perfect but I will not accept that the A was my fault, she made the choice, nobody forces the disloyals to do what they do. In my case my W most certainly could have directly expressed to me everything she confided and complained about to OM. Then I wouldn't be here.
You are doing more than your share to fix it IMHO. If it were me I do not think I could do the same as you. You are mentally strong for this. In order to work through it you must be. We all have our limits your threshold is extremely high from what you post and what you are dealing with.
From all I have read about the A chemistry she probably did not truly hate you. The hate was probably some distorted emotion because she knew what she was doing was wrong.
So hang in there.
 
#39 · (Edited)
I'm trying. Right now after some time to cool off, I relaize it's one of the questions I'll never be bale to answer and neither will she. One of those things I ahve to have the serenity to accept that I can't change it. I have hand shakes I never had before. Despite that, using Springfield Armory Trophy Match 45 at 20 yards, I grouped 6" in man target in the head and orange square in the chest with (2) 8 round clips in 22 seconds - the fastest the range will allow and probably a bit too fast for their taste! The guy next to me stopped and said "holy ****, who are you pissed off at?" You can guess who I was thinking of ;) I have a new Alessi Body Guard shoulder rig for it and a CPL. I haven't worn it but twice when I'm headed to the war zone areas of the city. I don't have enough confidence in my self control to wear it where I might run into the *******. I've fantasized about turning him into a woman.

Thanks for the support Disbelief - keep the faith!
 
#41 ·
Thanks Uptown. Unfortunately I don't see my IC right now. I did have him go through an interview with me on her about bipolar and he said she exhibited definite traits. Her psychiatrist did not agree. She ahs been seeing him for about 9 months now. I will read up on it and suggest it to her. Right now she is very stable and has been for about 7 months. None of the severe swings. I think the stress of the A had really gotten to her until discovery and then she had a real hard time taking ownership and forgiving herself - also way off the charts in terms of stress. I'm not dismissing what your tellling and will research more, I just don't see those traits now or for the last number of months. Again thanks.
 
#42 · (Edited)
Right now she is very stable and has been for about 7 months. None of the severe swings. ... I'm not dismissing what your tellling and will research more, I just don't see those traits now or for the last number of months.
8Year, I am glad to hear that things have improved in your marriage. The lack of stability would be most evident as the Jeckle and Hyde behavior you described earlier -- where she loves you for a week or two and then, in a few seconds, flips to hating or devaluing you based on a comment or minor infraction. Yet, because you've not seen that behavior for 7 months, it seems extremely unlikely your W was ever exhibiting a pattern of strong BPD traits.

IME, such traits simply do not disappear for 7 months (except for the infatuation period at the outset of the relationship). They are deeply embedded in early childhood and start showing themselves by the teens, when the person is trying to form LTRs outside the family. In contrast, bipolar moods typically will disappear for months -- or even a full year -- at a time. And, of course, you W may have neither of those problems. Her mood changes could simply have been a reaction to the painful events surrounding her affair, as you now suspect.

In any event, I suggest that you NOT tell your W about such traits. Even if she has a strong pattern of them -- which seems highly unlikely at this point -- it is something that only a professional should discuss with her (and, as I mentioned, a psych likely would not mention the disorder to a HF BPDer by name).
 
#43 ·
Thanks uptown I'll keep it in mind though.
 
#45 ·
That is precisely why I say do no harm and take a time out to get your anger under control. I have a very commanding voice and a take charge demeanor to go with a quick temper. The combination of the three can make someone like my wife who avoids conflict and is hurt easily because she feels she can't defend herself from me fold up and walk away resentful usually right into the arms of the OM. It took a lot of work on my part to calm down and engage brain before mouth. I can still be commanding without changing my tone - it's what I say that I had to work on.
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#46 ·
8:

Catherine is right. You are the wronged one; you set the conditions for recovery. Whatever you need to feel safe in the relationship, you should demand, and she should willingly comply.

She has no right to say that you are being controlling; you are protecting your marriage.

There is not 1 man in 100 that would put up with this behavior, and she needs to understand that your anger and grief must be addressed if the marriage is to survive.
 
#47 ·
Lovesherman - my thread is old, some old friends and some new ones recently revived it with new posts. An update - we are now about 8 months since D-day. I did set the terms and she has been very helpful and 1005 compliant in NC and helping me through my triggers and feelings. She has been in IC and I was for about 4 months. Both of us have been in MC. We have made fantastic progress and are like a couple of teenagers madly in love again. I still have triggers by the fading more and more and are only about 1 every month or two - serious ones that is. I still think about the A but am trying to move into the future and put it behind me. My wife now understands that her reactions early on - the controlling crap, the painting me and and our relationship with a very black brush were all her justifications and she no longer feels that way. She has made very good progress identifying why she did what she in iC. I on the other hand have changed the behavior I had that made her vulnerable by severely weakening our marriage. My anger, my harsh voice and word, some serious bad habits, etc. So all is much better now. Here's hoping we go into the future as well as it has been going!!!
 
#48 ·
Great update.

No mater what the future holds for your marriage, you can rest easy that you have always been faithful, and fought hard for it with no regrets. Unfortunately the same can't be said about your wife - or my ex-wife for that mater. She has to learn to look at herself in the mirror and not recoil with disgust at the woman she sees looking back at her.
 
#49 ·
I guess that is one real reason for our success so far. I made a requirement that she goto IC with a psychiatrist that did threapy as well and not just meds. He has completely changed her meds and I know that helped significantly becuase she has ahd depression problems as long as I've known her. Part of the requirement with the IC was that she explore why she was able to do what she did and what drove her to it and how she could overcome those same feelings and prevent this from happening again. SO far she has determined that it was a learned flight response from conflict from her childhood in a family of 11 kids. She learned to run from conflict and not try to resolve it becuase her parents were too busy to intercede. All of her sisters have the same issues. There is also a history of depression in her family. Last but not least a feeling of abandonment or being left to fend to for herself. She feel deeply in love with me after her high school boyfriend was killed in motor cycle accident ( a frind of mine). ABout two years after going steady with her, I felt a need to make sure I was ready for marriage and we seperated for a while and both dated. This tore her apart and did serious damage to her trust in me. SHe was very needy for love and strength or devotion becuase of the lack of it from her parents - again 11 kids of which she was 9 and too little to go around. So our marriage started out with serious lack of trust for me on her part and a very needy personality with a conflict avoidance trait. With me travelling heavy and having kids, she felt abandoned. With the birt of second she went into severe post partum and left for 2 weeks - the kids with me. This when the first two short term happened. We were in MC after that Ithought things were back to solid ground (I didn't know about the first two). As soon as the MC stopped, her depression continued and she started the long term with my "friend". I could kill the b@stard for taking advantage. She tells me it startd as someone availbale that made her feel desired and she could talk to. From there it continued becuase she compartmentalized and justified by telling herself it wasn't often 1x/month and she deserved it with all of my road travel - she always felt I had no responsibilities and no kids to take care of and was going out to dinner all the time. She kew but ignored that I was working 16-18 hours a day just to get back and hated being away from her.

All said - she accepts she was VERY wrong and it took a long time for her to face herself and then to forgive herself. SHe sees how skewed her thinking was. SHe understnads how she jsut avoided working through it with me instead of doing waht she did and is very remorseful. She understands she ahs to face my pain and help me through it - she created it. SHe no longer runs and states how she feels and stays in the dscussion. I really had to adjust to this. On my side I've changed my approach to her on issues or arguments. Is stopped using my command voice and ulled back and took a time out when I couldn't control my anger and opened mouth and inserted foot. My new motto is do no harm. Listen actively, shut up and understand, then discuss. Together as a team we have made great progress repairing our marriage and making it better.
 
#50 ·
You were wise to make IC a non-negotiable condition for reconciliation. Too many betrayed spouses are so eager to have their unfaithful spouses back that they overlook - or simply ignore - this much needed pre-requisite for reconciliation.

Now as far as your anger towards the OM, that is totally normal but I hope that it is not something that is consuming you to the point where it is keeping you from your personal healing. I truly hope that you can get to the point where he becomes a nonperson in your life.
 
#51 ·
He already is. God forbid I ever run into him on my way to the range, he may a few more holes to breath through.
 
#53 · (Edited)
Yes it's over and done Lord. Thanks for pounding it in my face as you do everyone - it's so beneficial. I learned you can let something tear you apart and keep dwelling on it. It's just self flagellation. Learn from it, be smarter and eyes wide open. But I've climbed out of the damn hole that I'd dug for myself (yes she started it with her bomb of an A) and I'm filling it in so I can't go back. Only you can do it for yourself. Your WS can't fix you - she can only help. It get's to a point where your WS will decide she can't deal with the constant anger, questioning, distrust and give up. Yes you heal in your time and you take as long it takes you get there. But getting there is the goal. Staying stuck doesn't get you there.

You had started to show empathy toward newbies. You turned back to your old ways. Keep living in your hell, I'm leaving mine behind.

And I am committed to my marriage - nothing you say will divert me from my happiness or my life as I want it to be. My squelch is up all the way.
 
#55 ·
I can totally understand where 8 is coming from. I don't understand why some posters feel the need to be so blatantly brutal to someone who is in R. How in the world does that help? We all have triggers on our own as is, there is no need to be so vile.
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