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The latest from my wife is that I am being too controlling and degrading by checking on her whereabouts when i'm worried or scared. It has helped me to build confidence when I can check and things are as she has told me. An exception happened this week when she went to a salon about 45 mins away. It was only supposed to take 1-1/2 hours. When it became 4 with no response from her I texted her I was scared that she was meeting someone.
First, I'm going to refer you to my newest thread: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...ping-your-disloyal-you-being-controlling.html

Second, I have to admit I tend to side with your wife on this one, that the way you treat her is controlling and disrespectful. However, she tends to want 100% trust in her honesty when she hasn't earned it and is unwilling to put in the effort TO earn it! Nonetheless, her bad choices do not justify you making a bad choice too (i.e., controlling) so just to clean up your side of the street, there is a difference between identifying for your equal partner wife that something is "not okay with you" and jumping to conclusions and accusing her before you know any facts!!

Here's where you derail: "... It was only supposed to take 1-1/2 hours. When it became 4 with no response from her I texted her I was scared that she was meeting someone." Did she tell you it would be 1 1/2 hours or DID YOU DETERMINE that was how long she had? Did she have to come to you for permission? Did she have to "report to you"? Would you go to her for permission? Would you let her determine "you have X amount of time to complete this task or I'm accusing you of Y?" Would you be willing to report to her? Then why would you treat the woman you love that way? So let's assume the best. The two of you discussed together that she thought the appointment would be 1 1/2 hours. (If the place was 45 minutes away, that actually makes no sense. It would be 1 1/2 hours just to drive there and turn around and drive back...with no time for the salon to work. But let's assume it was 45 min. for driving to and fro and 45 min. for the styling.) Okay so she's at the salon and her purse and phone are not near the styling chair. The stylist says "Oh I need to set this and you'll be under the dryer for 20 min." She doesn't have a way to get to you...or they are chatting away innocently. Now you make the assumption she is lying again, with no facts to support that, and then accuse her based on your own assumption made out of fear! You are making her responsible for your feelings!

There's where you crossed from "equal partner speaking the truth" to "controlling partner."

If she estimated 1 1/2 hours and it was 4, it is reasonable for you to wonder what happened, to feel afraid, and for it to not be okay with you. But the way to express that it's "not okay" is not to try to control her, accuse her, and place responsibility for your behavior at her feet (i.e, you chose to be afraid, you chose to make her responsible for your feelings, and you chose to be controlling). Nope. YOU chose to act in a controlling way, and that's yours to deal with!

A healthy way to deal with it would be W-T-F-S:
"When you...
I Think...
I Feel...
So I'm going to request...."
A request means that she is 100% free to say "No; I'm not willing to do that." But if she does say no, then ask her to tell you what she IS willing to do or brainstorm together.

Here's an example:
"When you tell me that your appointment will be less than 2 hours and it turns out to be more than 4
I Think 'Oh no here we go again' and wonder where in the world you are and think maybe you're lying to me again
I Feel scared, vulnerable, worried, confused, distressed, and unloved
So I'm going to request that if you go somewhere and will be delayed by more than half an hour, that you'd give me a text and let me know where you are. Would you be willing to agree to that?"


That format identifies the behavior that's not okay with you, shares with her your thoughts and your feelings without assigning them to her, and makes a request that would work for you and would fix it for you. It shows respect because she's free to choose and your equal.
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
I spent a lot of time thinking about this over the weekend and like I said in my original post, I know I was wrong to accuse. The 1-1/2 hours was the appointment only not travel time and it was her estimate when she left. I was also worried becasue it was snowing heavily and the roads were terrible. Again I was wrong to accuse and apologized for doing so this weekend. We also made an agreement that neither of us would text or email feelings or issues anymore because it is so wide open to misinterpretation. Talk only and preferably face to face. I explained to her that it occurs like a spiral to me. I start worrying and when I can't contact her, I start worrying some more. I explained that a brief text explaining it was going to take a lot longer would have brought me back on stable ground in an instant. So with the no texting or emailing feelings rule, I will no longer text something like that accusation. I will also talk it out with her and not accuse when we can talk. She will try to understand my fears and let me know when an appointment runs that long. We are also going to establish a user name, password and security question list for everything this week so I can get access to accounts to do business or whatever. I as my MC put it, am going to take a chance and trust her to do the right thing and work at stopping my checking up on her. Like I said, checking and finding nothing raises my trust and reduces my fears so I'll have to just take chance without that reinforcement. ANother example of her feeeling watched was me asking her about a name on her facebook. I explained to her that she had a habit before of hiding his numbers and email addresses under false names and I was concerned a alias was being used to keep in touch. Once she told me who it was, I told her my fears were shut down. I asked that since this was so recent, she try to just answer and give me time. This type of question would reduce dramatically because there was very little left for me to question. I think she was ok with that.

Hard work, but still pushing myself to think about how she feels before I open mouth and insert foot. I know avoiding spur of the moment response in email and texts will help.

Thanks again Affaircare.
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
Hate to say it. I've been asking myself a lot lately if I should stay married. There are so many things that she can do that I can't see or detect that the A could still be going on and I would never know it. Just like I haven't for the last 20 years and three men. I can't seem to get myself to accept that she has changed though I think I see it in her. She deceived me for so long, I don't what was real and what wasn't over the last 20 years. I keep asking myself how someone could love you and then hate you enough to go to the OM and then love you again all while lying constantly. I don't know if I can ever trust her again. I haven't voiced this to her. I won't unless I decide I'm done. I'm trying very hard to follow my MC's advice to just take a chance and quit beating myself up over it. I'm going to talk to my IC about it this week. When i have asked her how she could do this, her only answer has been that she would get mad about something I said or done and head for the OM. I asked why she didn't divorce me 20 years ago or anytime in between and her answer was the kids. So I feel as if I've been used for 20 years. I had directly asked a number of times 20 years ago if anything was going on because I suspected and was told no. I even asked when my third daughter was born after I had a non-reversible vasectomy and was told no. Now she can't tell me for sure if she is mine. I've told her, my daughter is my daughter regardless but there may come a time when paternity will have to be proven - like a medical emergency where I need to be a donor.

So - taking a chance is a big leap of faith I'm having a very hard time doing. Any suggestions anyone?
 

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Hate to say it. I've been asking myself a lot lately if I should stay married. There are so many things that she can do that I can't see or detect that the A could still be going on and I would never know it. Just like I haven't for the last 20 years and three men. I can't seem to get myself to accept that she has changed though I think I see it in her. She deceived me for so long, I don't what was real and what wasn't over the last 20 years. I keep asking myself how someone could love you and then hate you enough to go to the OM and then love you again all while lying constantly. I don't know if I can ever trust her again. I haven't voiced this to her. I won't unless I decide I'm done. I'm trying very hard to follow my MC's advice to just take a chance and quit beating myself up over it. I'm going to talk to my IC about it this week. When i have asked her how she could do this, her only answer has been that she would get mad about something I said or done and head for the OM. I asked why she didn't divorce me 20 years ago or anytime in between and her answer was the kids. So I feel as if I've been used for 20 years. I had directly asked a number of times 20 years ago if anything was going on because I suspected and was told no. I even asked when my third daughter was born after I had a non-reversible vasectomy and was told no. Now she can't tell me for sure if she is mine. I've told her, my daughter is my daughter regardless but there may come a time when paternity will have to be proven - like a medical emergency where I need to be a donor.

So - taking a chance is a big leap of faith I'm having a very hard time doing. Any suggestions anyone?
I’m not at all surprised by your last post. I’m more or less in the same situation but for different reasons. I suspected my wife of deceiving me and lying to me for quite a while but I had no proof. Now that she’s lied to the courts of England under oath and on the Bible I tell myself she’d have no problem deceiving and lying to me. So I accept that my wife is a liar. It is hard for me to accept the truth of that or not to make excuses for her. But a liar is a liar. It’s simple but oh so hard to accept.

Now I haven’t a clue what was authentic in my marriage and what was a lie and I was married a very long time. But unlike your good self I am no longer with my wife. She deceived me one too many times and I’d no longer tolerate it. I’m in a good place now. But I know I could not get to where I am if my wife was still with me. There’s a lot of grieving to do not only about the past but about the future we once envisaged as well.

I don’t know how you can do that grieving while you are still with your wife. I just don’t know how you can do it. There is a lot of anger in a man to be worked through when this sort of thing happens to him. And your wife being constantly in your presence one way or another will give you many triggers for your anger. Anger is a most natural, basic emotion and it’s there for self defence for a person who has been woefully abused. Just be careful what you do with that anger.

Personally I think you need to be separated from your wife for at least six months to work your way through the grief of what you have lost in your past and what you thought the future with your wife was going to be. And when you are through your grief you’ll be in a much better position to know what to do next.

Bob
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
AFEH, I have not separated from wife and am not sure I want to. I seem to bounce into considering if I want to stay every couple of days. Some days are good, some bad. I'm curious from someone who did reconcile, how were you able to get the confidence it would work out. Or was it ever a question?
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
Anyone who has reconciled?
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
Anyone who has reconciled - please give me your opinions

Anyone who has reconciled - please give me your opinions on my question?
 

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It was a long while ago but we reconciled and spent the next 31 years together.

But my situation was nothing like yours, it bears no comparison at all. I know I couldn’t cope if my wife had been cheating on me for 20 years. I wouldn’t be able to cope with it. I’d need to get away and rediscover myself because I would have been so seriously systematically abused and deluded about what I thought the last 20 years were all about. I just don’t see how you can rebuild yourself while still living with your wife.
 

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wow, too much.

i agree w/ afeh on this one. i mean c'mon man, 20yrs worth
of deception. i wont elaborate as many have here already,
including yerself.

i'm surprised some "mature" folk posted pro WS material here
tho'.....very surprised.

if i were a MC counseling you, i'd say some of what u r already
dealing with. anger outbursts; trust issues; how to deal with
'em etc. no guilt nec to HEAP upon you, in addition to what u
r already dealing with. I'd place spirituality as key to yer peace
of mind, survival, and overcoming this tragic experience.

if i were her MC, i'd be getting at IF she is truly sorry/repentent
for what she did to you, herself, the Union, and most of all, God.

if she indeed were, her actions/deeds would show it, not just a
lot of LIP Service, like so many do. I'd tell her she needs to have a heart of understanding towards you and yer anger-pain-trust related outbursts. instead of her reacting to them, she could use trigger phrases you've both agreed upon, to relieve the tension of the moment.

if she were'nt really sorry/repentant for deceiveing you, then
we would have to investigate the whys/why not. in fact, we'd
have to investigate this area even if she were sorry/repent for
it could raise its ugly head again or in other harmful ways.

i think, unless u were some kinda control freak/tyrant or some such, the balance of "the to do list" should be on the WS not the victim. Not that u dont have some work yerself to do, but
i'm sick of reading here from some folk that the BS has to
carry the load on too many fronts cause the Marriage almost
becomes like a sacred cow itself, and must be maintained at any
cost, when one party is willing to SUFFER the ordeal.

i think that is a recipie for disaster, to the BS, that is.
Marriage must be consentual, if not perfectly balanced at all
times.

[key note: i banged this out. no prior drafts. hope i covered major angles here. if u shoot, shoot straight...lol]

shalom............
 

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It was certainly spirituality that helped heal my soul, mainly through Buddhism with a little bit of Christianity in the mix. Whatever works and it can take some searching to find what works. And time. Time is a great healer but it does depend a lot on what we do with it. I hope 8years finds the path into the light out of the jungle he’s in.
 

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I have been following your thread and I feel a sense of outrage at what you are being asked to do by your therapists. I agree with cb45 tha you are carrying the emotional burden of a deception that lasted throughout your entire marriage. She had essentially had two relationships for 20 years, one for children, financial support and convience and one to meet her emotional and sexual needs. During those years, you, her steadfast and trusting spouse, had only her to rely on. I think she is with you for convience still. Her reactions to your suffering is cruel and cold in nature it seems. She is not willing to endure any suffering or to help you get through your suffering and it has only been a few months!!

Why do you make yourself available for her convience still. she can't even be bothered to comfort you that shows how little she regards your feelings. About as little as she has ever regarded them. I don't put much stock in therapist if their goals are not consistent with your's as an individulal. It is almost as if the marriage is more important than you. That's not true the, union is as good as the people forming it and the way I see it you have no union.

I understand your unwillingness to face this full on but I think the woman you are married to does not love you enough to think you feelings are important. She is more concerned with herself and her comfort. I don't think she respects you because she has been able to pull the wool over your eyes for so long and she is still enjoying your support and devotion. What a life she has had, prety good for a heartless deceptive woman. The advice you are getting about trusting a naturally deceptive person as the height of stupidity. You are the wounded party however you are being asked to carry all of the emotional pain. I don't get the feeling she has had a moment of real regret or suffering, I'll bet she is congratulating herself on getting away with the ultimate deception and being married to a gullible trusting man. Why are you being chastised for making her life difficult? It is unbelievable, you are nothing, she is every thing why is that?

I am sorry if this offends you but I feel so angry when I read of you struggle and I cannot stay silent. The person you love is really not the person she is, she never was that person. I think you have still not fully digested the full scope of what has happened and that you should not recommit so easily to staying married. I don' think you have experienced true love and it would be good if you could in your life. Why are you trying so hard to keep this together? Surely not for love, love is a two way street. I don't get a sense she loves you now or has ever done, so why are you keeping up this fiction? I can see why she would but I don't understand what you get out of it.

Nothing is written in stone and I think you don't have to tell her that you are exploring leaving, she does not need to know.until you have made up your mind and I don't think you shoul make up your mind so soon. In fact, instead of being so vigilant with her, disengage and be totally selfish and go out and explore life. Get out and see what new things you would like to do. Relieve the suffering by self care doing things away from her building a separate life from her. You may find that after a time, you do not want her. If you leave you will not suffer any more than you are now but, you have the advantage of starting anew away from a deceptive person who very well may decide that you are too much trouble and leave. Become more misterious and treat her in a more offhand way. Get new clothes, work out, get new interest. Take the focus fro her and bring it back to you. If you divorce you have the chance to meet someone who loves and appreciates you and can offer you some splice in the years to come.

I see no future with the women you are married to. She deceived you before and she likely to fall into the same pattern when thing quite down, I think you stand a good chance of years of sorrow and uncertainty because she is a good liar. I think you will come to regret you chioce to stay because you will never get the love and reassurence you are looikng for with her. Is not the uncertainty of a life without her better than one with her constant presence and possibility of deception? Take you time and think this through, look at the future with her, what you have now is what you will have in the future it will only get worse with time she will be back up to her antics in a year or two when she thinks she has you docile again. Is she worth it?
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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
Catherine I agree she has been self centered and not sufficiently understanding and supportive of what I'm going through. I also will not let my feeling become a crutch for hurting her by hammering her on the affair. I still have my moments where I wonder if I made the right decision to R. I look back on 20 years of this and three men and ask myself what was real and what wasn't in terms of how much she loved me. I can't reconcile that she loved me at all and that I was just being used as provider and caretaker. I also know she could go deep underground using prepaid phones and I would never be able to detect it. All I can do is what my MC suggested - take a chance and believe she honestly does not want to back living a lie. She has told me she can't answer why she kept it up so long except that she never believed she would be caught so didn't really think she was hurting me because I didn't know and she didn't think I ever would. She also told me she seriously considered suicide several times because her guilt made her feel like the most evil person for carrying on. She is seeing a psychiatrist to try and get her depression (which I think is bipolar) under control. She says she regrets it all and wishes she could take it all back. She also says she understands the destruction she caused me and is now backing off on telling me she feels accused when I ask questions because she understands it's going to take a very long time to rebuild my trust in her. She also understands she needs to be extra loving to keep me strong and must watch for my times when I hit triggers and talk me down. If she hadn't turned this way recently, I was ready to walk away. So things are doing better but still a daily struggle for me. I know the person she was during this affair is not the person I loved - it never will be. All I can do is watch and hope what she tells me is real. Now that I know the behaviors she exhibits when she is unfaithful - hindsight is better than 20/20 - it's much clearer now - I think I can detect it if it starts going off track again. There will be no third chance. If it even starts going back off track she will be gone from this house and my life and she knows it.

So - I appreciate your support very much Catherine. Here I sit praying she is on the right course and starting to support the way I need to be to be supported and deserve to be.
 

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I so much hope she is loving you very much; you diserve the best there is. I am concerned though that you are not asking enough nor expecting enough. You are the injured party, if she is too self centered to see that then she will never see it.

I am going to play devils advocate and say to please keep in mind that you have many years more in a relationship with a person who is capable of deception if she thinks she won't be found out. That means she has no internal moral compass to control her actions. There is no telling what she will do in the years to come when you have decreased your vigilance and she is tempted.

I understand your being careful because she says she is depressed. Usually, people with bipolar disorder are medicated, has her physician put her on meds? If she is on no medication then I doubt if she has a serious depression or bipolar disorder. Remember, if she is telling you this and you have not communicated with her physician then you have only the word of a habitual liar. You only have her word that she was suicidal. Telling you that shift the sympathy meter away from you and to her which is manipulative. You don't know if she really felt that way or just saying that for the affect that it has on a caring loving man.
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
I am asking for what I need and after a long talk Sun AM, I think she is beggining to understand how severely all of this has affected me. She said she understands she is going to have help me come down or pull me back up if I start feeling either afraid or severely unhappy because of triggers or thinking about what has happened. She also seems to be getting that she will have to not take my explaining how I feel as an attack, to control her or to accuse. I will choose my words carefully. She will need to consider that I am on edge and needs to be ahead of the game talking me down - my suggestion to her. She voiced twice that afternoon (while crying) that she was so sorry for tearing me up and that she is going to do everything she can to help me heal. I feel positive and much more like I'm not alone dealing with it. My IC supported my efforts and told me he thought I was doing amazingly well. I've suggested the MC , her IC and mine all talk. I'm also going to ask some questions of her IC - like - is he trained in MC? Has he made any determination based on her hard cycling from deep depression to the "all me" behaviour which I feel is manic? What is his diagnosis at this point? Does he plan any medication changes?And finally the suggestion about cross communication between the MC and my IC and him. We will see what happens.
 

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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
It's another one of those days. I'm grieving the fact that wife hated me for 20 years enough to do this in spite of my stupidity for completely trusting her and being very much in love. I now see the times clearly when her hate was at it's peak. Why she didn't want to make love or cuddle. 20 years of my life when I could have built a relationship with a woman who truly loved me instead of being used. My wife keeps saying put it behind me and she has done just that . It wasn't her life she controlled it was mine without my knowledge and it's a hell of a lot harder to put it behind me than it is for her. I think she gets it to degree, but not enough. Goig to the range to burn off some anger and distract myself from this pain..
 

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Discussion Starter · #37 ·
I've decided my youngest is my daughter regardless and am not going to test. If it ever comes to a medical emergency then I'll have the test done. In any case she is my daughter and the OM will never know if she isn't.
 

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Blood test doesn't make a father the relationship does!. Hope you had some center mass hits to blow off that steam. Don't blame yourself with stupidity though, definitly not your fault. She made the decision not you. You remained true to the core and values from everything you say. It is easy to believe until you have a reason not to. I even doubt if my W is going to work at times now.
I will in my case accept our M was not perfect but I will not accept that the A was my fault, she made the choice, nobody forces the disloyals to do what they do. In my case my W most certainly could have directly expressed to me everything she confided and complained about to OM. Then I wouldn't be here.
You are doing more than your share to fix it IMHO. If it were me I do not think I could do the same as you. You are mentally strong for this. In order to work through it you must be. We all have our limits your threshold is extremely high from what you post and what you are dealing with.
From all I have read about the A chemistry she probably did not truly hate you. The hate was probably some distorted emotion because she knew what she was doing was wrong.
So hang in there.
 

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Discussion Starter · #39 · (Edited)
I'm trying. Right now after some time to cool off, I relaize it's one of the questions I'll never be bale to answer and neither will she. One of those things I ahve to have the serenity to accept that I can't change it. I have hand shakes I never had before. Despite that, using Springfield Armory Trophy Match 45 at 20 yards, I grouped 6" in man target in the head and orange square in the chest with (2) 8 round clips in 22 seconds - the fastest the range will allow and probably a bit too fast for their taste! The guy next to me stopped and said "holy ****, who are you pissed off at?" You can guess who I was thinking of ;) I have a new Alessi Body Guard shoulder rig for it and a CPL. I haven't worn it but twice when I'm headed to the war zone areas of the city. I don't have enough confidence in my self control to wear it where I might run into the *******. I've fantasized about turning him into a woman.

Thanks for the support Disbelief - keep the faith!
 

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8Years, the behavior you describe -- verbal abuse, Jeckle and Hyde instant mood changes, and irrational arguments -- are several traits of BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). I therefore suggest that you read about the nine BPD traits to see if your W's behavior seems to exhibit most of them at a strong level.

You will not be able to tell whether they are so severe as to meet 100% of the diagnostic criteria for having full blown BPD. Only professionals can make that determination. But you will be able to determine whether most of the red flags (i.e., the strong traits) are present because, after you've been living with a woman for many years, it is easy to spot such strong traits when they occur. There is nothing subtle or nuanced about traits such as verbal abuse and black-white thinking.
I told her lst night she needs to find out with her psych how she could go from loving me, to hating me to going to someone else for support and sex all from one argument.... She has always been a very jeckle and hyde personality with severe depression and some serious manic episodes.
This behavior -- where a woman can flip in 10 seconds from adoring you to hating you -- is usually due to black-white thinking, one of the hallmarks of BPDers (i.e., those having strong BPD traits). It occurs when a BPDer categorizes everyone as "all good" or "all bad" -- and will recategorize someone from one polar extreme to the other based solely on an idle comment or minor infraction. BPDers do this because they are extremely uncomfortable with mixed feelings, paradoxes, and gray areas.
I insisted on the psychiatrist to try and get her meds stable and determine if she has some form of bipolar or other mood dysfunctional disorder.
As an initial matter, I urge you to meet -- for a few sessions at least -- with your OWN psychologist (without your W present) to obtain a candid professional opinion on what you are dealing with. Remember, your W's psychologist is NOT your friend. He is bound by professional ethics to treat and protect HER. Hence, when a spouse seems to be exhibiting strong BPD traits, relying on advice from your W's psychologist during a marriage is the equivalent of relying on the advice of her attorney during a divorce. Just don't do it. It is important to protect yourself.

Instead, go to your own psychologist and describe the situation. As I've explained in other threads, there are many reasons why professionals are loath to tell a high functioning BPDer client the name of her disorder. They generally believe it is in her best interests not to be told. The reasons have to do with the associated stigma, the near certainty that the client will terminate therapy, and the lack of insurance coverage for BPD. In light of this reluctance to tell the clients, there is virtually no chance you would ever be told in the event your W actually is a high functioning BPDer.

As to your suspicions that she has a bipolar disorder, I will share my experiences from 15 years of taking care of my bipolar foster son and BPDer exW. I found that there are several clear differences between the two disorders. One difference is seen in the frequency of mood changes. Bipolar mood swings are very slow because they are caused by gradual changes in body chemistry. They are considered rapid if as many as four occur in a year. In contrast, four BPD mood changes can easily occur in four days.

A second difference is seen in duration. Whereas bipolar moods typically last a week or two, BPD rages typically last only a few hours (and rarely as long as 36 hours). A third difference is seen in the speed with which the mood change develops. Whereas a bipolar change typically will build slowly over two weeks, a BPD change typically occurs in less than a minute -- often in only 10 seconds -- because it is event-triggered by some innocent comment or action.

A fourth difference is that, whereas bipolar can cause people to be irritable and obnoxious during the manic phase, it does not rise to the level of meanness and vindictiveness you see when a BPDer is splitting you black. That difference is huge: while a manic person may regard you as an irritation, a BPDer can perceive you as Hitler and will treat you accordingly.

Finally, a fifth difference is that a bipolar sufferer -- whether depressed or manic -- usually is able to trust you if she knows you well. Untreated BPDers, however, are unable to trust for an extended period -- even though they sometimes may claim otherwise. This lack of trust means there is no foundation on which to build a relationship. Moreover -- and I learned this the hard way -- when a person does not trust you, you can never trust them because they can turn on you at any time -- and almost certainly will.

Yet, despite these five clear differences between the two disorders, many people confuse the two. The primary source of this confusion seems to be the fact that a significant portion of BPD sufferers also have the bipolar disorder.
I take abuse from her all the time and don't let it change my love her.
As I said above, verbal abuse is one of the hallmarks of having strong BPD traits. Significantly, this is not due to BPDers being "mean people." Their problem is not being "mean" but, rather, being unstable. Because the vast majority of BPDers are high functioning, they usually get along very well with business associates, casual friends, and complete strangers. Indeed, many HF BPDers are generous and compassionate toward those folks. The reason is that such people pose no threat to a BPDer. There is no threat of abandonment (i.e., no LTR to be abandoned) and no threat of engulfment (i.e., no intimacy to cause the suffocating feeling of losing one's identity). This is why it is common to see a BPDer be kind and generous with strangers all day long and then go home at night to abuse the very people who love her.
She will hold onto onto a brief argument for days and brood and NOT work through it with me.
With their loved ones, BPDers generally are only interested in creating drama, not in finding solutions. The drama, as I've explained in other threads, is necessary to support the BPDer's false self image of being "the victim," always the victim. I caution that all of us occasionally exhibit all nine of the BPD traits -- at a low level if we are emotionally healthy.

At issue, then, is not whether your W has the nine traits. Of course she does. We all do. Rather, the issue is whether she has most of them at such a strong level that they are undermining your marriage. I don't know the answer to that question. I therefore am encouraging you to read more about the traits and to verify your judgement by seeking an opinion from your own psychologist.

If this discussion rings a bell, 8Years, I also suggest that you read my overview of BPD traits in Blacksmith's thread. My three posts there start at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...-complicated-marriage-dynamic.html#post358403. If you have any questions about this discussion, I would be glad to try to answer them or point you to professional articles that can answer them. Take care, 8Years.
 
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