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Not really related... But what @personofinterest said, and your wife's issue and you feeling of not being listened too, they are related... but how...



Me and GF have the same issue, and for the life of me I don't know why. She will ask a question, I answer it, she then googles the question, and is surprised when I am correct EVERY SINGLE TIME.



If this has happened once it has happened a 1000 times... Never once was I controlling, never once did I call her stupid for not knowing the answer, none of that. I just remember some things. Not everything either just some stuff I retain.



And I am the same way with people, I have the 6th sense. And I am always right, ever single time. If I don't like someone, there is a reason, so I listen to my 6th sense...



But you ask me a question, and then don't trust the answer even though I am right ever single time...



WTF is up with that... What is that about?



I just don't get it...
If I had a bonafide 100% accurate answer to this, I'd probably be playing my guitar instead of posting here.

One of life's great mysteries, but we're doing a pretty good job of breaking it down.
 

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Not really related... But what @personofinterest said, and your wife's issue and you feeling of not being listened too, they are related... but how...



Me and GF have the same issue, and for the life of me I don't know why. She will ask a question, I answer it, she then googles the question, and is surprised when I am correct EVERY SINGLE TIME.



If this has happened once it has happened a 1000 times... Never once was I controlling, never once did I call her stupid for not knowing the answer, none of that. I just remember some things. Not everything either just some stuff I retain.



And I am the same way with people, I have the 6th sense. And I am always right, ever single time. If I don't like someone, there is a reason, so I listen to my 6th sense...



But you ask me a question, and then don't trust the answer even though I am right ever single time...



WTF is up with that... What is that about?



I just don't get it...
Oftentimes it is people projecting their internal dialogue on the what you have told them, which is often the opposite of what you actually said.

I can't count how many times I have had conversations with my wife where she discerned something completely different than I communicated. In these instances, it almost always had to do with something connected to ego or a lack of self-esteem.

No external voice can compete with somebody's internal dialogue, especially when the internal dialogue is negative.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
 

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Pride goeth before the fall...



I think there is also an element of defensiveness and stubbornness, and a deep seated desire to be right, which on a subconscious level can lead people to take actions to prove themselves right, even when there is absolutely nothing to be gained.
This.

The ego of one with low self-esteem.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
 

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This.

The ego of one with low self-esteem.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
Oh, this was one of the key things with what happened to me. I knew I was safe from an affair. Well, who would want me, right?

And then we were off to the races!

 

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Not really related... But what @personofinterest said, and your wife's issue and you feeling of not being listened too, they are related... but how...



Me and GF have the same issue, and for the life of me I don't know why. She will ask a question, I answer it, she then googles the question, and is surprised when I am correct EVERY SINGLE TIME.



If this has happened once it has happened a 1000 times... Never once was I controlling, never once did I call her stupid for not knowing the answer, none of that. I just remember some things. Not everything either just some stuff I retain.



And I am the same way with people, I have the 6th sense. And I am always right, ever single time. If I don't like someone, there is a reason, so I listen to my 6th sense...



But you ask me a question, and then don't trust the answer even though I am right ever single time...



WTF is up with that... What is that about?



I just don't get it...
Oftentimes it is people projecting their internal dialogue on the what you have told them, which is often the opposite of what you actually said.

I can't count how many times I have had conversations with my wife where she discerned something completely different than I communicated. In these instances, it almost always had to do with something connected to ego or a lack of self-esteem.

No external voice can compete with somebody's internal dialogue, especially when the internal dialogue is negative.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
This

I had so many negative tapes in my head. For much of my life, I just accepted them.

Then I stopped, and the pendulum sadly swung way over in the stubborn direction.
 

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This

I had so many negative tapes in my head. For much of my life, I just accepted them.

Then I stopped, and the pendulum sadly swung way over in the stubborn direction.
And then the major problem is not what somebody said, but what you were absolutely convinced they meant.

In other words, you completely bypassed the literal definition of their words and went straight to 'knowing' their intentions.

My wife still periodically does this. And despite it driving her insane, my normal response to this is:

"I can't compete with your internal dialogue."

Then I walk away.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
 

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This

I had so many negative tapes in my head. For much of my life, I just accepted them.

Then I stopped, and the pendulum sadly swung way over in the stubborn direction.
And then the major problem is not what somebody said, but what you were absolutely convinced they meant.

In other words, you completely bypassed the literal definition of their words and went straight to 'knowing' their intentions.

My wife still periodically does this. And despite it driving her insane, my normal response to this is:

"I can't compete with your internal dialogue."

Then I walk away.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
It was a little more complicated than that for me because my ex husband did actually have some of the same tendencies as the people who put the tapes they are to begin with. And instead of trying to work with me as the person he promised to love to resolve these things, he mocked me. He laughed at me. He told me I was stupid for thinking that way. When I wanted to talk about it to get to the bottom of it he walked away, but when he wanted to talk, he would follow me around the house and even wake me up out of a dead sleep. So yes, I had issues. But so did he.
 

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Look, it's easy to beat the Dead Horse of proving that a wayward spouse was wrong. I mean, duh, Big revelation lol. But if a couple is determined to successfully reconcile, then part of that is not clinging to it like grim death and feeding and festering bitterness. I am convinced there are people who are so upset about their own lives that 1 of their conscious or unconscious goals is to make sure they sabotage as many other recoveries as possible.
 

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Look, it's easy to beat the Dead Horse of proving that a wayward spouse was wrong. I mean, duh, Big revelation lol. But if a couple is determined to successfully reconcile, then part of that is not clinging to it like grim death and feeding and festering bitterness. I am convinced there are people who are so upset about their own lives that 1 of their conscious or unconscious goals is to make sure they sabotage as many other recoveries as possible.
This hits home. W and I both know what happened and how we got here. It's okay and even healthy to remember the mistakes and the issues that led us here- and to remember the lessons learned, but to sit and wallow in it 24/7 and let it fester into bitterness is NOT healthy and not the way to recovery.

There are folks in these very forums, unfortunately, that do want to see folks end up reconciling or even happy, because they themselves never recovered and are not happy. Some of them are crafty and subtle with their conversations, but most intelligent folks can see through it.
 

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I'll chime in here, as I'm not sure when or even if W will be back anytime soon, and this was a major point of contention for me. I won't rehash our MC sessions here in public, but I can tell you this is one of the hardest things I've had to reconcile- why she wouldn't listen to me, and then ended up nearly destroying us over someone I had identified as a potential problem. That's a tough pill to swallow, any way you look at it.

Short answer? Pride. She thought if I could tell this guy was a jerk, why couldn't she? She didn't detect anything, and she would know if he had designs on her, right? I mean, after all, I wasn't around him enough to really 'know' him.

Which, makes perfect sense if you're in her shoes. He had done nothing to prove me right to this point, nor for months after.

For a better explanation, read the reply from @personofinterest Lot of similarities with regards to how my W saw this.
Not really related... But what @personofinterest said, and your wife's issue and you feeling of not being listened too, they are related... but how...

Me and GF have the same issue, and for the life of me I don't know why. She will ask a question, I answer it, she then googles the question, and is surprised when I am correct EVERY SINGLE TIME.

If this has happened once it has happened a 1000 times... Never once was I controlling, never once did I call her stupid for not knowing the answer, none of that. I just remember some things. Not everything either just some stuff I retain.

And I am the same way with people, I have the 6th sense. And I am always right, ever single time. If I don't like someone, there is a reason, so I listen to my 6th sense...

But you ask me a question, and then don't trust the answer even though I am right ever single time...

WTF is up with that... What is that about?

I just don't get it...
I'm just going to drop a small comment in here, on the one not believing the other, in a myriad and regarding almost all topics, if you will.

The old adage "someone convinced against their will is of the same opinion still" is almost always true, in again, any circumstance.

It takes many forms, has many reasons, and there are different ways to overcome.

People want to believe what they want to believe sometimes even the face of overwhelming contradictory facts.

Welcome to human nature.
 

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People want to believe what they want to believe sometimes even the face of overwhelming contradictory facts.
Sadly, this is true. Look at how many people who end up being betrayed spouses didn't want to believe it, even REFUSED to believe it, in the face of overwhelming evidence.

They can't all just be "stupid". We don't want to believe bad things about ourselves or about those we love.
 

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This hits home. W and I both know what happened and how we got here. It's okay and even healthy to remember the mistakes and the issues that led us here- and to remember the lessons learned, but to sit and wallow in it 24/7 and let it fester into bitterness is NOT healthy and not the way to recovery.

There are folks in these very forums, unfortunately, that do want to see folks end up reconciling or even happy, because they themselves never recovered and are not happy. Some of them are crafty and subtle with their conversations, but most intelligent folks can see through it.
You guys have the right attitude. I told my FWW The past is the past and there is nothing you can do about it. Let’s build a great future. As for reconciliation, I am a proponent provided the necessary ingredients are present, most notably TRUE remorse. You and I are fortunate as we experienced true remorse.
 

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You guys have the right attitude. I told my FWW The past is the past and there is nothing you can do about it. Let’s build a great future. As for reconciliation, I am a proponent provided the necessary ingredients are present, most notably TRUE remorse. You and I are fortunate as we experienced true remorse.
Indeed on the remorse part. It absolutely makes me thank my lucky stars that I'm not in a situation like poor Jilted Muppet is in his thread. Devastating stuff to read...
 

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I cannot imagine. If my wife had made a video, R would not have been likely. You will find out on this board that there are many situations far worse than what you and I have experienced. Keep moving forward and most of all be patient with each other. As I think I have told other posters in Kentuckesee (Our reference to living on the border) Pat Summit has a quote I used quite often “Left foot, right foot, breath repeat”. In other words just keep moving towards your objective. I am 100% certain you guys are going to be fine.
 

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This hits home. W and I both know what happened and how we got here. It's okay and even healthy to remember the mistakes and the issues that led us here- and to remember the lessons learned, but to sit and wallow in it 24/7 and let it fester into bitterness is NOT healthy and not the way to recovery.

There are folks in these very forums, unfortunately, that do want to see folks end up reconciling or even happy because they themselves never recovered and are not happy. Some of them are crafty and subtle with their conversations, but most intelligent folks can see through it.
Did you (or anyone dismissing the comments they don't want to hear) ever stop to consider that those dissenting opinions are being posted to make you consider all angles of the situation? @sokillme is catching a pretty hard time from you and NLLH for bluntly presenting stuff that should definitely be considered and mulled over. I think sometimes it's easier to kill the messenger than to contemplate the message. When you have read on these forums as much as I have (and even more for @sokillme) you see the long term results of "all the questions" not being answered and sometimes/often that end result is a false, or worse yet failed reconciliation. The hard questions are being asked to help you to achieve your end result, not piss you off.
I'll post one such hard truth right here.
@MrsMM said:
I also think that others think they can sort of "crack the code" on cheating if I can somehow explain exactly why I did what I did, and why I didn't just stop it if I was becoming so uncomfortable with it. There's just not a single, simple answer, and nothing I say will excuse what I did.
The "code" was cracked long ago and there is one simple answer that is rare for the Wayward to actually confess to, yet it is universally the rule.

They did it because they wanted to.

I may be wrong but I think that was likely what @sokillme was trying to get out of his question to MrsMM. That universal truth is also something that @Music_Man has hopefully gotten his head wrapped around, as hard as that can be. If he hasn't it will eat at him for the rest of his marriage.
 

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Did you (or anyone dismissing the comments they don't want to hear) ever stop to consider that those dissenting opinions are being posted to make you consider all angles of the situation? @sokillme is catching a pretty hard time from you and NLLH for bluntly presenting stuff that should definitely be considered and mulled over. I think sometimes it's easier to kill the messenger than to contemplate the message. When you have read on these forums as much as I have (and even more for @sokillme) you see the long term results of "all the questions" not being answered and sometimes/often that end result is a false, or worse yet failed reconciliation. The hard questions are being asked to help you to achieve your end result, not piss you off.
I'll post one such hard truth right here.
@MrsMM said:

The "code" was cracked long ago and there is one simple answer that is rare for the Wayward to actually confess to, yet it is universally the rule.

They did it because they wanted to.

I may be wrong but I think that was likely what @sokillme was trying to get out of his question to MrsMM. That universal truth is also something that @Music_Man has hopefully gotten his head wrapped around, as hard as that can be. If he hasn't it will eat at him for the rest of his marriage.
You're not wrong. Better to ask them now when you are all in and intent on doing the work. You have got to suck all the venom out if you want to heal the bite.

If you are not starting with the premise of "They did it because they wanted to" and working from there then you are just fooling yourself. You have to start from there because the key to fixing it is to figure out why you wanted to and why you were willing to compromise your morals to do it. You may never cheat again true, but the underlying problems will still be there to cause issues in an already tenuous relationship. Full accountability is necessary. If you say you did it because you were tricked or fooled then you are really saying you didn't have and affair you were raped.
 

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I don't think anyone is catching a hard time from me. I came to these forums because I did want honest opinions and did want to make sure I had every question, every angle analyzed. I didn't name anyone specifically in the posts quoted above, just generalizing some posters I've seen, and not just in regards to my situation.

I've been extremely transparent and forthcoming and will continue to be as much as I can, but there are some things I haven't disclosed- such as the intimate nature of our MC sessions. Some of that just isn't for public consumption. I can assure you all that much deeper discussions of things not even mentioned by other posters- certain motives, desires, etc. have been discussed. There isn't anything our particular MC isn't bringing to light, and I've brought many questions from these very forums into play.

I just get the sense, sometimes, that some folks have an agenda at times and seem to want to steer a thread to meet their preconceived narrative. Perhaps I'm wrong, just my perception.
 

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“I just get the sense, sometimes, that some folks have an agenda at times and seem to want to steer a thread to meet their preconceived narrative. Perhaps I'm wrong, just my perception.”

You are not wrong IMHO, there are some posters who like to stir up ****. You will get stupid ass advice here, and you will get stellar advice also. After a few months on this board I pretty much figured out the members of the torch and pitchfork brigade. I think you have too.
 

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I don't think anyone is catching a hard time from me. I came to these forums because I did want honest opinions and did want to make sure I had every question, every angle analyzed. I didn't name anyone specifically in the posts quoted above, just generalizing some posters I've seen, and not just in regards to my situation.

I've been extremely transparent and forthcoming and will continue to be as much as I can, but there are some things I haven't disclosed- such as the intimate nature of our MC sessions. Some of that just isn't for public consumption. I can assure you all that much deeper discussions of things not even mentioned by other posters- certain motives, desires, etc. have been discussed. There isn't anything our particular MC isn't bringing to light, and I've brought many questions from these very forums into play.

I just get the sense, sometimes, that some folks have an agenda at times and seem to want to steer a thread to meet their preconceived narrative. Perhaps I'm wrong, just my perception.
Perception can change.
 
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