@TinyTbone - is it worth it at this point to get more information at this stage of your life?

I personally think you should spend most of your time now living for yourself. Talk to your wife. Don’t talk to her. It doesn’t matter. The only thing that matters is that you wake up every day and go do something that you want to do. The only person you listen to is yourself. Just go out and live. That’s what I do and it’s a blast.

now go get your car.

 

Would explain alot! She's been a wonderful wife over the years,.put up with aot of lonely times a grouchy butt head of a husband. However she's always been a bit of an odd duck.

 

Surprise, surprise - a man taking accountability for his shortcomings in his marriage. Recognizing the problems and then trying to become better.

TT - when was the last time your wife took accountability for anything she’s done wrong that didn’t require you to spell it out for her? When has she ever done any self reflection and shown you humility on her own?

are you shopping for that car yet?

 

She had a crush on him? He was interested in her? They slept in the same bed at least once? And yet nothing happened even though you had told her it was understandable if she an affair while you were deployed and you would forgive her? Nope — not buying it. You shouldn’t either. Whether you stay or go (and I think you’ll stay) you’ll have to come to terms with the likelihood of an affair that she’s afraid you’ll leave over if she tells you about it.

 

OK, once again. I never, i repeat, never told her it was ok to have an affair! All I said was is sometimes crap happens. We're lonely, whatever. I get it. I'm not telling you it's ok, just I can understand derstand it, just don't want you to.
What if something did happen, better be able to live with it, cuz it'll eat you alive like cancer! That didn't ever wanna know! Bliss in ignorance. If, and I repeat if you just gotta, I said don't dirty my doorstep with it and don't dirty my bed. Again I didn't want her to do anything.

 

OK, so talked with G a bit ago. Was a smooth conversation. She was very thoughtful about it. She absolutely has no recollection of anything of that nature. In fact as we talked about where she was living at that time frame, it made no sense. She was already living with a man that I did meet. She was.working in dialysis at that time. She indicated that it had occurred, it would have happened at her next apartment in a completely different part of that area. She didn't remember, nor I, the wife and I ever visiting that one
Also this time does align with when I was on shore duty for 3 yrs. I don't ever remember her going to G's and staying over nite solo. Nor did she ever remember hosting J at anytime at any place she lived.
She is either make up some fantastical story to make me jealous or angry. She may be having delusions possibly due to depression and of early onset dementia or someone is covering.
The one part in all this that I believe to be true, was the original part where he groped her and tried to kiss her. The rest, well is up for debate and a poly.

 

OK, once again. I never, i repeat, never told her it was ok to have an affair! All I said was is sometimes crap happens. We're lonely, whatever. I get it. I'm not telling you it's ok, just I can understand derstand it, just don't want you to.
What if something did happen, better be able to live with it, cuz it'll eat you alive like cancer! That didn't ever wanna know! Bliss in ignorance. If, and I repeat if you just gotta, I said don't dirty my doorstep with it and don't dirty my bed. Again I didn't want her to do anything.

You may not have felt you were giving her permission to have an affair, by “understanding” if she did, but that’s how many women would see it. I’m a female and my husband was deployed for almost a year when we were very young. If he had said what you said, I would have been extremely insulted that he didn’t think I was capable of being faithful to him. What your wife thought about that statement is unknown, AFAIK, but her actions after that are certainly questionable.

What Openminded said is what I was going to post. I really think most people would consider that to be giving her the go-ahead. You may not have meant that, but it certainly comes across that way. Also, saying that if it did happen, she should take it to the grave makes it nearly impossible for you to ever know what may or may not have happened. It may also make it impossible for her to retrieve that information from her memory, if she repressed it.

The statements you made to your wife are coming back to haunt you now. I don't think this was all your fault, but you did play a role in this fiasco. Both of you did. Who knows what she did or did not do.

I remember, when my husband and I were first married, my best friend stayed the night with us. We only had one bed, so she slept with us. We all had pajamas on. At the time, it didn't seem odd to us, but now I think it was highly inappropriate. Sure, nothing bad happened, but it's still not appropriate. I chalk it up to being young and dumb. For us, however, no one did any kind of sexual touching. We all wanted to be comfortable and we all wanted to sleep. That was all. Still weird. Not doing it again.

 

Funny you write that. It's exactly what occurred with the wife and friend. We were young and didn't think anything of it. So we all 3 piled into bed, sleepers on, and slept. Innocent.

 

Young people often do dumb and/or weird things. I did a lot of dumb and weird things in my youth.

 

Glad to see you hanging tough Mr. T!

If it makes you feel better, your wife isn't the only one who's kind of blunt. I tend to blurt things out if I can't figure out how else to say it. It's not for a lack of filter, but it's hard sometimes to judge what's too harsh because people who "think they're helping me" see no issues with giving it to me straight, so I figure who can give it can take it. Tone and body language are a completely different story, it tell you more about intent and motivation than words ever could.

Does she have communication issues in general? Or is this just with you? I'd think you guys would know each other well enough by now to understand how though.

I can't comment about the whole puppy piling in bed , that's a totally foreign concept to me 😂 , but other folk can understand and don't think much of it.

 

Thanks for the input. As far as her treatment of me? I was constantly being rejected at this point for intimacy. 1 out 10 might happen?
Her smiles weren't as often. I.have told her looking back we.should have divorced well before our daughter was born. She had changed from when we married. Due to my constant time away in the Navy, she had become very independent. This caused a power struggle every time I returned. No equilibrium.

Maybe you should have divorced back then. Yet, you both didn't so here you are. And being able to navigate a marital relationship and nourish it successfully is a tall order, when spending so much time apart. You end up having seperate lives that can see you both naturally abrade against each other when you come together.

Yet the thing is, you're both also bringing your own toolbox of other issues outside of living apart as well. So, I can't help but think, that being appreciative of the difficulties that can bring, while being kind to yourselves and each other because of those issues would probably help you both.

No you're not confused. However either folks see it as a hall pass or i worded it incorrectly.
What i did say was i understand that sometimes things happen. Things we wouldn't plan. That attraction can be strong. She's young and now fully a woman, not just a girl growing into adult hood. I told her that i can u her stand, but I'm hoping she can be faithful and respect us. However should she mess up, I asked a couple things. Don't dirty my doorstep or bed with it and I don't ever want to know. There's bliss in ignorance. What I don't know can't hurt me. Just you better be able to live it, because these kinda things will eat you like cancer. So no, I didn't give her a hall pass, just that I can understand how it can happen.

Sometimes things can get lost in translation.

If my wife said the same thing to me, I would honestly think that she was okay with my having other sexual partners. Now sure, I would think that she might not be keen on me doing that. Yet, just as long as I don't rub it in her face, I would feel she would actually be good with that.

I would also think, that my wife believes that I would probably not remain sexually faithful to her while she is away.

I would also think that my wife was intending to (or already doing) the same herself. Now absent any evidence/confession etc, I wouldn't know if she was going to or was doing that. Yet, I would absolutely think at minimum she is considering it, and wants to do that herself.

One thing for sure, although it may not have been your intent, you did actually open the door and invited her to walk through it.

I think the biggest hurdle right now at getting all the truth out, whether worse than I fear already, or just inappropriate is that she's known for a long time my stance on cheating.

Hmmm?

Does she? Because if I were in her shoes, I would think that you're okay with it to some degree, and would also think given that, you doth protest too much.

There's bliss in ignorance. What I don't know can't hurt me. Just you better be able to live it, because these kinda things will eat you like cancer. So no, I didn't give her a hall pass, just that I can understand how it can happen.

I guess there can be bliss in ignorance. The trouble is though, relationships and (especially) communication can be very untidy.

And you have also offered big mixed signals, if you don't want to know, stop digging. If you do want to know, don't say you don't want to know in the first place.

And you ought to appreciate that memories are fallible, even shortly after events and especially over long periods of time.

One thing I know for sure. I never realized I was bipolar. I had anger issues. My moods were mercurial in nature. I could from blah to ready to tear up the sheets in mere minutes, or go from blah to spitting angry! I fit in the military like this very well, a dynamic that was utilized. However that doesn't fit in a loving relationship.

Yep.

Can you imagine, how tough living with you would have been, how that kind of stuff can push people away into the arms of others as well. Now sure, choosing to cheat, is on the person who chooses to cheat. Yet you have played a role in this.

That said, I think you ought to do yourself and your wife a favour, and be kind to yourself (for her benefit) and be kind to her (for your benefit) as well.

Not forgetting that through your own experiences of metal health challenges, your wife has stayed with you despite all of that.

As far as being soft and demure and super feminine. No, she has never been that way. I finally, about a year or so ago realized what it was I needed from her. I kept telling her, in a loving manner of course, I needed a soft, approachable woman. One that smelled sweetly of some perfume. A woman that knew how to be woman. What I didn't want was a third base coach, kicking dirt, spitting tobacco juice and grabbing his junk!

You're supposed to like each other as you are.

So, if you feel you need her to be someone else for you, since being what you need isn't who she is. Then she is married to the wrong man, and you are married to the wrong woman.

This is a very real possibility. She was self described a geek, a nerd. Hated school, didn't participate in any school activities. Her friends as met them were odd at best? She's never had real social skills, just a chatty Betty doll. I've always had to do casualty control with her at any social funtions.
She didn't even have a real first date till late in her senior year

At the end of the day, if you want to end your marriage with your wife, you should do exactly that, because you want to end it.

That said, if you don't want to end your marriage with your wife, then you will need to find it within yourself to accept the past, which includes her behaviour and your behaviour, accept her for who she is, accept yourself as well, and then move forward from there.

Also on the idea of getting your wife to do a polygraph. You would do well to understand that polygraphs are unreliable pseudoscience crap, that aren't admissible in courts because they aren't reliable. Since they can label liars as truth tellers and truth tellers as liars.

Not forgetting that if your wife is neurodiverse, you are setting her up for failure (because she is different) from the get go. And if you are setting her up for that, I encourage you to instead have the decency, to just end your marriage, rather than **** her around cruelly with that nonsense.

One thing for sure, there's nothing wrong with ending a marriage. Yet, I do encourage you to carefully consider what you really want before you choose to do so.

 

Hi personal. Well a very indepth commentary. Also very understandable. I'm not gonna beat the hall pass ideal up any more at this point.
As to the divergence of our relationship separate and together, that has been the farthest reaching issue for us. Also let's not forget we really are recently empty nesters, as our daughter just 23 and left home at 21. So that probably doesn't help our stress levels out.
So as you've said, I'm coming to learn to accept what is and move forward day by day. To cover something you did say about not wanting to know. Correct I never wanted to know. However, she let Pandora out of the box. That then opened a flood gate of thoughts and questions. I'm pretty much done with that part.
I've been in therapy for years, shes now participating as well. My biggest issue is distinguishing between my bipolar anxiety/panic emotions or real reactions to real things. Due to this I've sought meditative measures, relaxing music and just quiet.
I think more than anything else, we've put some hurts on each other over a long life together. Neither of us are innocent, made bad mistakes. Said some hurtful things. We are working hard on communication now and how to resolve the resentments built up.
None of this is a 5 minute fix, some may never be fixed. Right now, I must determine my path to happiness and she hers.

 

Sometimes, it's really difficult to see the wood from the trees, even with therapy.

 

** MODERATOR NOTE **

At @TinyTbone 's request, this thread is re-opened! YAY

Here's what he needs from the TAM community: "What I will need most now from all here is a place to lean on when I'm down. How to push through feelings..."

 

I posted a shopping list which included a sledgehammer and a permanent marker between other things.
I wasn't kidding with most of that list, by the way...

OP/ @TinyTbone , is a fixer, over-thinker, elephant memory, extreme details oriented and many others, that probably helped him extremely in his jobs and military life.

Now, he needs to be a bit away from the constant trigger that is his W and her very rough attitude and un-filtered remarks.

Plain and simple, he needs to be busy doing what he likes.
To take his mind from the stress and being dead inside.

I believe in a way, his daughter told him that.

The trick is not to hide those feelings. They just gather and at some point go BOOM!
It is to take those feelings as SOME part of who you are, and let ALL the rest of you come back together.

For example, me, I consider grass mowing a chore. I don't enjoy it.
But installing a swing or putting together a trampoline, than seeing my kids smile while using them???

 

Hey folks,I'm back. Thanks mods. I have decided that I am ending my marriage. Just to much pain to much damage on both sides, I feel, to overcome. If I opted for the polygraph, then what's the sense. I don't trust, period.
I don't hate her, never will. Buts it's coming to an end. Just have to get all my retirements in order, then I close the book on this part of my life.
Sorry to upset anyone, but it's my life, my decision. Now I will need support and strength of those around me.

 

Hey folks,I'm back. Thanks mods. I have decided that I am ending my marriage. Just to much pain to much damage on both sides, I feel, to overcome. If I opted for the polygraph, then what's the sense. I don't trust, period.
I don't hate her, never will. Buts it's coming to an end. Just have to get all my retirements in order, then I close the book on this part of my life.
Sorry to upset anyone, but it's my life, my decision. Now I will need support and strength of those around me.

That's too bad, but you have to do what you feel is best. We'll be here for you.

 

Please note. It is over. I'm at peace with my decision.

 

Best wishes for a good outcome for you as you go through this.

 

You’ll get through it and find a peaceful new life on the other side. That, for me, was worth all I went through to get there.

I wish you well.

 

You don’t need to apologise @TinyTbone, what you do is up to you, and you need to take care of yourself and do what you think is best. That said, I hope you and your wife, find yourselves in a better place as you move on from each other.

 

I just wanted to give a.special thanks also to Affaircare. EB, take note! Miss you are an amazing and insightful person. During a very turbulent time in my life, you took the time to send me, a total stranger, valuable words and advice. I will be grateful for the rest of my life at the words you shared. They helped me to figure out just who I am and what it is I seek.
My deepest thanks and respect!

 

This was the only good choice. The writing was on the wall from the very first post.

There may be some waffling before you stick with it and that's to be expected.

 

I've got support for that thankfully. It will hurt, I will feel like a pile of it, I have already begun grieving us. This is the right choice for me.

 

TTB, just curious (ignore this if you want) -- what tipped the scale for this decision? Was it one thing, a series of things, or???

 

It was a compiling of things over the years. For example about 10 years ago, we dropped our daughter of at a friend's. As we left i parked at a park, turned to her asked, seriously, give me 1 good reasons to stay. She sat there vexed for multiple minutes trying find a reason.
I knew 4 sure then, it was done. I did my job. Gritted it out. Raised a beautiful daughter now. I cannot continue to live a lie. I'm not happy, haven't been in so long! I need to breathe, to feel alive again. To feel that I'm seen and heard again. I've been dying a slow death, as grapes withering on the vine. No more. This week the final conversation will happen. Nothing can change this. A person cannot be forced to love.

 

I feel compelled to say this. I more, than any, know what i said when I made my vows to my wife 40 yrs ago. It hurts....deeply. I do feel like a huge pile. I have cried so much lately. Over ridden with guilt. But I didn't abandon us! I've been here all these years. She left me long ago, left me to wander in an emotionally empty desert. It just took a long time to own it. It took a long time to understand how lack of ability to submit to me as I did to her, caused continuous conflict and strife.
I have starved for so long, my soul is emaciated. I'm a human, with needs as all others. I also accept that I'll never make her happy.
Yes everyone, this hurts.

 

Ask yourself, why?
Why now?

Why are you 'now' feeling this way?

I have a good idea on the *why.

You need to discover this for yourself.

................................................

My take:


*These feelings and actions are timed, more likely, they are cyclical.
These feelings are revisiting you, and you presently have less resistance to them.
To resist requires much energy, both physical and mental.

You 'again' lack that.
Now, more so, that lack of energy.

Some fate has newer plans for the two of you; for good or nil.

Tread carefully.

At your age, I would fear the 'nil'.

 

@TinyTbone, it's going to keep hurting very deeply for a good while yet.

And I'm not meaning to be glib or dismissive. Yet, I want you to know that you can get to the other side, and from experience (my own divorce following my ex-wife's infidelity) it really does get better.

That said, I'm not sugar coating it, you may be alone for a long time and or feel hurt for a long time, yet time will pass and you are loved. So please, please for your sake and those who love you don't let the darkness rob you.

 

I was in a dysfunctional marriage for 45 years and I intended for it to be forever. But one day I reached a point where I couldn’t continue. Some people are not capable of being an equal partner in a loving relationship and my husband was one of them. Many people are able to overcome whatever issues they have and be a good spouse but he couldn’t. Your wife apparently can’t either. I would not be surprised if she tries very hard to convince you to stay. My husband did. But you (and only you) know when you’re truly done.

 

Thank you the thoughts. I KNOW she is going ro try every trick to compel me to stay. I won't change my mind. I don't want this any longer. The heart knows what it knows.

 

Your self-preservation instinct will lead you towards the right path, eventually. It's heart-breaking, though. It was 33 years for us and we were very young. I still can't believe it's finished, but it's also the way it finished. Because I didn't want it. At least you are taking the initiative right now. Try not to feel guilty and forget the regrets. They will drag you down. You did what's best for you. Don't forget that.

 

I keep telling myself this. I know it's the right thing, just ...it still sucks so bad.

 

We are all proud, and here for you. It takes strength to decide what you just did, after so many years.

 

Thank you for love. Still sucks bad. I'll be ok, time has a way of helping with that.

 

Not much to add that hasn’t already been said. But from what I know of you, you are a quality man that gives your all.

Much respect to you and Gods blessings on your journey forward Sir!

 

Thank for the kindness! I'm tenacious, but even sanctity has it's limits. I was never perfect. I caused damage as well. However, I know I've been changing for years now, growing as a person, becoming the me I felt I was. Sadly she could not see this, or was just so checked out it didn't matter.
I'll just take me and my buddy cancer on some different excursions! Distraction is gonna be a good friend now.

 

Sorry. It's a separate thread under TinyTbones update. Was diagnosed with an unusual type of lymphoma cancer in April of 2023.