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It's my guess that good 'old Doctor Dirty was getting flirty with multiple nurses and others and that your wife was one of those who he didn't get beyond the flirty stage with for one reason or another.

However, a polygraph would not hurt at this point.
 

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Discussion Starter #22
It's my guess that good 'old Doctor Dirty was getting flirty with multiple nurses and others and that your wife was one of those who he didn't get beyond the flirty stage with for one reason or another.

However, a polygraph would not hurt at this point.
I think with my W, and this is her theory as well, he took his time with her because he knew had to. She was a cut above the average skank he had flings with. My W was a decorated nurse and has a strong reputation in the community- lots of community service, outreach, etc. She was employee of the year at this hospital just a few years before he showed up. She wasn't going to be one where he might say "hey, let's go for a quickie in the closet" right off the bat. He had to be calculated if he wanted the ultimate payoff.

He was more patient in his tactics, but I think it was thrill of the hunt for this sicko as much as anything. And he won- she may have escaped the cage, but he certainly caught her in his trap.
 

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I think with my W, and this is her theory as well, he took his time with her because he knew had to. She was a cut above the average skank he had flings with. My W was a decorated nurse and has a strong reputation in the community- lots of community service, outreach, etc. She was employee of the year at this hospital just a few years before he showed up. She wasn't going to be one where he might say "hey, let's go for a quickie in the closet" right off the bat. He had to be calculated if he wanted the ultimate payoff.

He was more patient in his tactics, but I think it was thrill of the hunt for this sicko as much as anything. And he won- she may have escaped the cage, but he certainly caught her in his trap.
Just because he was a vile, nasty man does not mean he is without patience.
 

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Thank you for sharing.

I agree with MattMatt. The OM sounds like a typical player that groomed multiple women simultaneously (each woman at various stages of seduction).

Not to minimize her behavior but she probably tolerated his attention because he went slowly. Plus he didn't invade her family/marriage space with texts so it was easy for her to compartmentalize, feel she was in control, and convince herself it was harmless. The reality is that when push came to shove - she said no and shut it down.

You're a lucky man. Although it still hurts, I suggest framing this as a 'test' that your wife passed.
 

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Tremendous loss though- feels like a death...almost indescribable. This R won't happen overnight, for certain.
No it won’t happen overnight, and an emotional affair in my mind is as bad as a physical affair. You can do it provided the key in Ingredient the is present,that being a remorseful spouse.

My FWW and I are exactly at 3 1/2 years of R
It took me two solid years to trust my wife again.I spent those to years watching her computer,iPad and iPhone I also had her phone where I could track her. I remember into the second month of R when I could not locate her. I triggered
Big time. From the tone of your posts you seem to have what it takes. I sincerely hope your R is a good one.
 

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No it won’t happen overnight, and an emotional affair in my mind is as bad as a physical affair. You can do it provided the key in Ingredient the is present,that being a remorseful spouse.

My FWW and I are exactly at 3 1/2 years of R
It took me two solid years to trust my wife again.I spent those to years watching her computer,iPad and iPhone I also had her phone where I could track her. I remember into the second month of R when I could not locate her. I triggered
Big time. From the tone of your posts you seem to have what it takes. I sincerely hope your R is a good one.
Thanks for sharing your battle as well. Her attitude and openness have been key- without it, I'd have sent her packing. As long as we stay the course we're on and there are no more 'revelations' to come, I can see a day where we'll be past it...but I don't see a day where I'll ever get over it entirely.

Just soul crushing...simply crushing.
 

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My situation was a full blown PA after being married 29 years. The point I am trying to articulate is that you can recover. We have recovered and our marriage is better than ever.it took a lot of hard work. You my want to discuss using Gottman Cards to improve communication. You can download them from an app, or order the printed cards. This helped me and my wife immensely. You can look up the Gottman Institute online.
 

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Discussion Starter #28 (Edited)
Thank you for sharing.



I agree with MattMatt. The OM sounds like a typical player that groomed multiple women simultaneously (each woman at various stages of seduction).



Not to minimize her behavior but she probably tolerated his attention because he went slowly. Plus he didn't invade her family/marriage space with texts so it was easy for her to compartmentalize, feel she was in control, and convince herself it was harmless. The reality is that when push came to shove - she said no and shut it down.



You're a lucky man. Although it still hurts, I suggest framing this as a 'test' that your wife passed.
You sum a lot of it up right here. My W says much of this verbatim- as did my therapist. She said yes, she was arrogant to think she could handle this once the talk turned to flirting and so forth, and that yes, she was able to compartmentalize it as 'work fun' vs family life. She was in way too deep before she realized it...but as I told her- once she was 'there' she was an active participant and 100% responsible (she agrees).

And yes, he said all of the right things. You see, my wife is beautiful- there's not one person on this thread who would disagree. However, her only sibling is several years older, and the other cousins she grew up around were also older. They called her 'stupid' and 'ugly' every day for years. It wasn't until she got into high school and they moved away that she started to move past some of that. So yeah- he scratched her where she itched. She still sometimes would see herself as that little girl who was kicked around and talked about.

And while this affair was going on, my W was in the prime of her life- stunning really, but a real down to earth, girl next door look- very little makeup, no artificial enhancements, just a natural beauty. However, no one, since me, had complemented her this much for this long- and to this degree. And he started by complementing her intelligence and her work skills- for several months- before ever starting the other.

He really couldn't have played it any better. If he had started with the flirting from the beginning, this wouldn't have worked for him. He's good, I'll give him that.
 

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If you want good insight into how an affair develops when a player like the doc is involved. There is somewhere on this board F102 Cheaters Script I think it was referred to. You may want to search for that.
 

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Discussion Starter #30
If you want good insight into how an affair develops when a player like the doc is involved. There is somewhere on this board F102 Cheaters Script I think it was referred to. You may want to search for that.
Thanks- I will do just that. Understanding the mindset of both my wife and this POSOM is very helpful as I continue to process and understand.
 

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If you and your wife have not read "Not just friends" by Shirley Glass, I suggest you do so.

It is like a step by step primer for how emotional affairs can develop with surprising quickness.

My two cents is that anyone who claims to trust 100% is foolish. Knowing the signs and keeping a watchful eye is not invading privacy. It is essential for a good marriage.

One thing that is fairly common to all betrayed husbands is that they never, ever, thought their "good girl" wife could act the way they did. They are shocked by their behavior.

It is like the frog in a pot of slowly heating water. It starts out innocently enough but before you know it, the water is boiling and the frog does not have the energy (or in a wife's case - the desire) to jump out.
 

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Discussion Starter #32 (Edited)
If you and your wife have not read "Not just friends" by Shirley Glass, I suggest you do so.



It is like a step by step primer for how emotional affairs can develop with surprising quickness.



My two cents is that anyone who claims to trust 100% is foolish. Knowing the signs and keeping a watchful eye is not invading privacy. It is essential for a good marriage.



One thing that is fairly common to all betrayed husbands is that they never, ever, thought their "good girl" wife could act the way they did. They are shocked by their behavior.



It is like the frog in a pot of slowly heating water. It starts out innocently enough but before you know it, the water is boiling and the frog does not have the energy (or in a wife's case - the desire) to jump out.
We've both read "Not Just Friends" within the last 6 weeks or so. Excellent, excellent read.

Edited to say that I've yet to see many books on affair recovery written from the male perspective- most seem to be written by betrayed W's. If anyone knows of good one out there, please pass it along my way. Read a good book by Cindy Beall, Rebuild a Marriage Better Than New, but it did get a little 'female perspective' heavy at times.
 

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MM thanks for sharing.

I think your perspective on the whole thing is on the money based on what you shared.

I'm glad it went that way, and I think you have a lot to offer here on TAM.

I want to address the issue, "would it have become a PA".

I think the critical point was when she asked, "what is this?"

It is axiomatic with players, that if you get in a womans head she will seduce herself.

Long before the first kiss, a woman has already fantasized about it. True for the whole mating dance.

He was being careful when he said, "it's just fun".

Had he answered it differently, say "I've never met anyone like you, I can't imagine my life with you, and you are so damn hot", then your wife would have begun to fantasize about him as a real lover.

It would have just been a small step for them to exchange, "I love you's".

Women want security and safety and until he began to make some kind of verbal commitment she would be reluctant to risk what she had.

Based on what you shared had he handled it just a little differently there is no doubt in my mind you would be looking at a full on affair.

He is a player, big-time, but a lot of woman have a "player streak" in them. They are the kind that will cheat on special occasions. A trip to Vegas, HS reunion, xmass party, etc, but they are not active players.

He was hoping your wife would have a little, "naughtiness" for cheating.

She was more careful herself, and was willing to make the best deal for herself she could (him at the time), but she need some more assurance.

She may not even be able to admit this to herself.

It sucks to realize that was your status with her. It is hard to accept, but she was living in a less self-aware existence.

Her behavior, her modus operandi, was basic instinct at the time.

Often someone doesn't ever realize they are just following their wiring. All those emotional needs, and insecurities spring into our consciousness from some biological imperatives.

She is likely a much safer partner, and a more self-aware person now.

I say this because I think part of your struggle will be letting go of the pedestal you placed her on.

It is hard to accept that your view of her was underserved, and inaccurate. You want that safe feeling back.

You are probably more safe now than ever because, faithfulness is intentional.

It reallly isnt fair to the other person to put them on a pedestal, it also tends to make you lazy in the relationship, careless, besides being unrealistic.

Relationships are not unconditional, they are by definition relational, and transactional.

I'm just throwing out some things to think about.

What she can admit to is that she was not self-aware enough, and that made her vulnerable.

Imo you should let it go at that.

I like the quote, "love is just chemicals masquerading as emotions". I think it has some validity unless a person can step back and look at themselves with a measure of objectivity.

Biology plays a big role.

I hope you find a fuller measure of peace, that your wife continues her work in reconciliation, and I welcome you to TAM.
Regards!
 

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Discussion Starter #34
MM thanks for sharing.

I think your perspective on the whole thing is on the money based on what you shared.

I'm glad it went that way, and I think you have a lot to offer here on TAM.

I want to address the issue, "would it have become a PA".

I think the critical point was when she asked, "what is this?"

It is axiomatic with players, that if you get in a womans head she will seduce herself.

Long before the first kiss, a woman has already fantasized about it. True for the whole mating dance.

He was being careful when he said, "it's just fun".

Had he answered it differently, say "I've never met anyone like you, I can't imagine my life with you, and you are so damn hot", then your wife would have begun to fantasize about him as a real lover.

It would have just been a small step for them to exchange, "I love you's".

Women want security and safety and until he began to make some kind of verbal commitment she would be reluctant to risk what she had.

Based on what you shared had he handled it just a little differently there is no doubt in my mind you would be looking at a full on affair.

He is a player, big-time, but a lot of woman have a "player streak" in them. They are the kind that will cheat on special occasions. A trip to Vegas, HS reunion, xmass party, etc, but they are not active players.

He was hoping your wife would have a little, "naughtiness" for cheating.

She was more careful herself, and was willing to make the best deal for herself she could (him at the time), but she need some more assurance.

She may not even be able to admit this to herself.

It sucks to realize that was your status with her. It is hard to accept, but she was living in a less self-aware existence.

Her behavior, her modus operandi, was basic instinct at the time.

Often someone doesn't ever realize they are just following their wiring. All those emotional needs, and insecurities spring into our consciousness from some biological imperatives.

She is likely a much safer partner, and a more self-aware person now.

I say this because I think part of your struggle will be letting go of the pedestal you placed her on.

It is hard to accept that your view of her was underserved, and inaccurate. You want that safe feeling back.

You are probably more safe now than ever because, faithfulness is intentional.

It reallly isnt fair to the other person to put them on a pedestal, it also tends to make you lazy in the relationship, careless, besides being unrealistic.

Relationships are not unconditional, they are by definition relational, and transactional.

I'm just throwing out some things to think about.

What she can admit to is that she was not self-aware enough, and that made her vulnerable.

Imo you should let it go at that.

I like the quote, "love is just chemicals masquerading as emotions". I think it has some validity unless a person can step back and look at themselves with a measure of objectivity.

Biology plays a big role.

I hope you find a fuller measure of peace, that your wife continues her work in reconciliation, and I welcome you to TAM.
Regards!
Wow, great post! My therapist and I (he's been great, btw) discussed a lot of this. Yes, I had her on such a high pedestal that the fall back to reality has been an unbelieveable shock to the system. This whole thing, if nothing else, has opened my eyes in so many ways to so many things about relationships and life in general.

Yes, if we can get past this initial crucial time, and if she and I both continue to work and to fight and to be transparent...and well, everything else- then we will BOTH be much better mates because of it.

It just sucks so much that it took something like this to open our eyes. Just makes me sick to the core. But I'm working on it- I don't want to stay mired in this season anymore than is absolutely necessary for proper grieving and healing.

And yes, Biology does play a role as well- no doubt about that.
 

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I think she is being honest. But now it is about your healing. I would tel your wife that she needs to be open to a poly at anytime, because you might realize in some time that you do in fact need that level of assurance.
 

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Discussion Starter #36
On the poly- for those that have gone this route, would you care to share any stories of failure/success/etc?

I know there's 2 camps on TAM- those that oppose them vehemently, stating they are 'junk' science, and those who swear by them.

I know that for some, it was to call a bluff so to speak, and hope for that parking lot confession. But for those that went through with it- anything to share?

My W is the one who brought it up- offered to take a poly while disclosing (which yes, could be a ploy, but doesn't feel like it...I don't sense dishonesty at this point). She appears to have done her research and was pretty well prepared for D-day...she knew it would come some day, she admitted. I know she lurked on SI for awhile- she admitted that. She had also read "How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair" just late last year (kept a copy in her glove box), so she was planning on talking at some point it seems, with or without my prodding. Not sure that makes me feel any better, just food for thought.
 

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Poly seems to be a lot of talk with no actual action. Very few real stories of people that actually made the cheater take one.

I would love to hear some results as well on that front out of curiosity.
 

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I really hope she is being totally honest, and that it stopped before it went into a full physical PA.

My concerns are that with an office place affair, most of it is happening during all those hours they are together, not via texting.

Plus, you have a Dr and a top notch nurse here, both very smart people. They would know that texting leaves a very easy to follow trail. They could have easily agreed to not do that.

Personally, I would absolutely do the poly. To make sure the offering of it wasn’t a ploy, and to give yourself full piece of mind that what you are healing from is the full story, and not just the tip of the iceberg.
 

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My W is the one who brought it up- offered to take a poly while disclosing (which yes, could be a ploy, but doesn't feel like it...I don't sense dishonesty at this point). She appears to have done her research and was pretty well prepared for D-day...she knew it would come some day, she admitted. I know she lurked on SI for awhile- she admitted that. She had also read "How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair" just late last year (kept a copy in her glove box), so she was planning on talking at some point it seems, with or without my prodding. Not sure that makes me feel any better, just food for thought.
I was very optimistic for you MM until reading this. Why would she prepare for D-Day years after the affair "ended". Why would she do research? I am not trying to be alarmist, but I do wonder if it is possible her research allowed her to create a plausible hard stop for the affair that may have in actuality been when it went underground and become more sophisticated and continued until a much later date.
I would say poly for sure, you likely have a high level of accuracy up until the end of the texts you recovered. Make sure questions cover the time frame after the recovered information.
 

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We discussed this at considerable length. Her answer is that she buried the affair deep down in the initial years. She didn't start lurking on forums or reading books until late last year, as our relationship had grown so much and was really "next level" in all aspects, but this was lingering over her head. Guilt...that's really the main thing. She felt guilty of continuing forward without reconciling what she had done. The guilt was consuming her. She did a bible study in early fall that sort of set her on this path. She knew she didn't want to take it to her grave.

These are her words, but I can't see where she planned some "disclosure session" to keep me off the trail, but I'm not really in a terribly trusting place just yet- so I will continue to monitor behavior and will absolutely STRONGLY consider the poly. I can't see any real harm in doing it at this point.
 
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