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Discussion Starter #21
You are right, you don’t know him. I guess I am just wanting some sort of positivity that could come from all of this mess. Maybe someone who can say something to give me a little hope that maybe someone can change after something like this; or personal experience of a successful outcome. Because I am so damn afraid of what is happening!
He did ask if we could go see our MC and I said no because I want to see her first by myself. I see her by myself sometimes; and right now I am so lost and so confused I need to see her and get some feedback. He said he wants us to get in to see our MC together ASAP
 

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It is possible that when faced with losing his life he'll realize that he threw everything away for his fantasy. You've handled this well, the only possible way to salvage things is to take a hard line. If you'd begged him he would've jerked you around deciding what he wants.

It's entirely possible that the water works are an act, and it's also possible that he does love you. He just imagined that he could have you and his wh0re. . . you've screwed up those plans.

I think you should continue the divorce, you taking a hard line has given you a position of strength with him. Tell him that if you mean that much to him he'll sign the papers after which time you'll consider dating him and see where it goes. It'll force him to pay up for his crap and it will give you breathing room, and most importantly it will let him experience the consequences of thinking he can have a side ho.

If there's anything to save this hard line might do it. If he won't take you up on your deal you'll know just how important to are to him.

Good job, I firmly believe that if more people handled cheaters like you did more marriages could be saved.
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You are right, you don’t know him. I guess I am just wanting some sort of positivity that could come from all of this mess. Maybe someone who can say something to give me a little hope that maybe someone can change after something like this; or personal experience of a successful outcome. Because I am so damn afraid of what is happening!
He did ask if we could go see our MC and I said no because I want to see her first by myself. I see her by myself sometimes; and right now I am so lost and so confused I need to see her and get some feedback. He said he wants us to get in to see our MC together ASAP
It's far more likely that he's trying to manipulate you than it is anything else. This is what cheaters do, it's who they are.

BUT if you really want to hold out hope that he's a rare truly remorseful and repentant cheater, check out Chump Lady's post here for some things to watch for while you decide if he's for real or not.

Real Remorse? Or Genuine Imitation Naugahyde Remorse? - ChumpLady.com
 

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I'm a lurker here, never told my stories, there are too many. This is a "new Marriage" with this happening, personally I would mark it up as a lesson learned and take it from there. I've been married twice was 14 the 1st time lasted 12 years. My 2nd now going on 29yrs still there but he had to make me believe in him. I did with all my being till one day after 17yrs the proverbial poo hit the fan and I lost all trust in him because he at one point thought he was falling in love w/someone he worked with. Now it has been almost 12yrs and the trust ,I feel will never be the same. He gave something to another that I felt was mine, HIS LOVE. Think long and hard in my opinion MC is not what is needed, IC for the both to try to get yourselves at peace w/who you are and figure out why life is as it is for you and take it from there. I know this sounds mean, but, you said third times' a charm, it's also an out:(
 

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You are right, you don’t know him. I guess I am just wanting some sort of positivity that could come from all of this mess. Maybe someone who can say something to give me a little hope that maybe someone can change after something like this; or personal experience of a successful outcome. Because I am so damn afraid of what is happening!
He did ask if we could go see our MC and I said no because I want to see her first by myself. I see her by myself sometimes; and right now I am so lost and so confused I need to see her and get some feedback. He said he wants us to get in to see our MC together ASAP
Actually, I'll go against the flow and recommend that you give him a chance. The phone records don't show much contact. It seems like she was chasing him and he was tempted but hadn't given in (though you'll never know if he would have). What are the chances that you meet someone who might be better?
 

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I'm sorry you are going through this and I know how you feel. Last summer I found out my husband was having an affair. He lied about the details, made it seem like it was just a "friendship" and I almost had hope that he would stop talking to her and work on us. But I found out more and more. Found evidence from the phone records and a letter he wrote to her.

Even as I confronted him with proof, he still lied. Looking back I realize that he was happy not rocking the boat. While I believed we were ok and working on our marriage, he was still talking to her. So he had the best of both worlds.

It wasn't until his affair was no longer a secret that he admitted how he felt about her. He had feelings for her and no longer felt anything for me. I was in denial for a long time but now I see things for what they really are.

I was hoping he'd choose me, that he'd end the affair, realize he made a mistake, and want to love me. He didn't and now I'm moving on.

It's hard I know, because you love him and everything is so fresh...the pain and the confusion. In time you'll get some clarity and know which direction to go.

It took me a good year to come to terms and be ok with this. Even though it still hurts but it's not as devastating.

And just remember---- he can't love you but also love another woman. You deserve to be the only one.
 

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Does anyone think that he might be truly remorseful and wants to fix this?
Does anyone think that the fact that he has made an appointment to see his counselor and to address the mess he made mean nothing?
Does anyone think my marriage is worth saving?
I feel like such a fool….. because I believed in him and he let me down. And now I am considering forgiving him as long as I see he is taking steps to fix this.
But when I read all of your comments I feel like no one thinks he could really love me and want to save our marriage.
Just read your post...

I'm a believer in saving a marriage.
If he's willing to take the steps, then give him a chance. I know that's what I would do.
 

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Does anyone think that he might be truly remorseful and wants to fix this?
Does anyone think that the fact that he has made an appointment to see his counselor and to address the mess he made mean nothing?
Does anyone think my marriage is worth saving?
I feel like such a fool….. because I believed in him and he let me down. And now I am considering forgiving him as long as I see he is taking steps to fix this.
But when I read all of your comments I feel like no one thinks he could really love me and want to save our marriage.
The reason that I don't think staying with him is a good idea is that he is not being honest with you. He has told you just enough to cover his behind. There is a lot more to this relationship. Why do I say that?

I could be wrong, but it sounds like he was cheating on his ex with at least an emotional affair. He has to admit that.

This woman did not get emotional about her relationship with him based on very fews contacts in the last few years. There has to have been an ongoing relationship with a lot more contact then he has admitted to.

He could be contacting her from work. Or he could have a burner phone. Or some kind of chat problem that hides the chats.
 

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She responded again saying "I am only in town 2 more days. Somehow I knew you wouldn't really see me".
Her telling him that she knew that he "wouldn't really see" her speaks volumes about his lack of real commitment to her. She has been an out of state ego feeding fantasy that he has used sporadically for many years, and he does not want to make it real with her even when given the chance. He has stated that he loves her but is not in love with her. So many cheaters use this I love you but am not in love with you phrase when leaving the marriage, that the initials of this phrase are often used on sites to say that this happened. What I am saying here is that it would be worse if he told you that he loved you but was not in love with you.

You are right to be upset, but there is a chance that this marriage can be saved if that is what you want. You pushing him to see her even when he resists needs to stop as it is a dishonest strategy. Stop playing games and decide what you want to do. There is a reason that you both have each been divorced 2 times, and you need to both find out why and make sure that you are not doing those things here.
 

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Discussion Starter #30
It has been a rough couple days. I have read everything you have all said. I have actually read a lot of it several times. I hear what everyone is saying and a big part of me KNOWS everyone is right.
He has spent the last few days literally begging me to not leave him. He has gotten on his knees; he has sobbed, he has said he will live the rest of his life under lock and key if that is what he has to do. He will go to counseling, he will give me full access to all of his social media, no passwords that I won’t have etc.
He also said this has forced him to look at what he said. He said although he said he loves her but isn’t in love with her he has of course retracted that and said this has forced him to look at it and see that he doesn’t even know her anymore. And he didn’t know her that well when they worked together 12 years ago when this all started. He admits to having an EA with her but continues to say it was never physical because they were both married. Once he was divorced she had already moved from Washington State to Florida so he said it almost became a game….. She stroked his ego; told him how much she cared about him, how he was the one that she wanted and couldn’t have, that she still wanted a chance to be with him etc. He said they stayed in contact but not consistently; and he felt like one of them would reach out when things weren’t good in their current relationship. He said it was game. He knew he didn’t ever want to be with her because he didn’t even know the real her. He like the idea of her. Someone who wanted him. Someone who stroked his ego etc…. He said he had no intention on seeing her when she was in town; and even pointed out that HE is the one who made sure we had plans as a family that weekend – even inviting other family over for a BBQ. He said he knew going to see her wasn’t what he wanted. HE was ok with keeping it the way it was – a “game” that he could play when he wanted, or how he wanted. When he felt like he needed it. He said she is the one who reached out to him this last time and said they only talked on 7/7 & again a quick call on 7/8 - - he said they didn’t talk again until the FB message she sent telling him she was in town and wanted to see him; that is the message he deleted.
He states he never wants to talk to her again and he has his closure with the phone call he made to her. He realizes he is losing his wife over an IDEA of this woman. He doesn’t know her well enough to love her; only what he remembers from over a decade ago.
I have not changed my course with him. I continue to tell him I can’t live this way or feel like I am always watching over my shoulder or wondering when it might happen again. When he cries and begs it breaks my heart – I feel so bad for him and I just want to console him; but I don’t. I let him sit in his own discomfort.
This is NOT what I wanted. This is NOT what I want for my marriage! I do not know that I can come back from this.
He is a good man in so many ways – I am struggling with losing someone like him – for all the good that he is……
 

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Does anyone think that he might be truly remorseful and wants to fix this?
Does anyone think that the fact that he has made an appointment to see his counselor and to address the mess he made mean nothing?
Does anyone think my marriage is worth saving?
I feel like such a fool….. because I believed in him and he let me down. And now I am considering forgiving him as long as I see he is taking steps to fix this.
But when I read all of your comments I feel like no one thinks he could really love me and want to save our marriage.
I guess that I will be the lone voice in the wilderness. Yes, it is very possible that he may be remorseful and wants to reconcile with you. Everything that you stated so far, could portray this situation as a man who is a lying, cheating miserable piece of crap that considers you a PLAN B, OR a man who got caught up in an emotional affair with an old flame (which still makes him a lying, cheating miserable piece of crap) and now truly realizes the damage that he has caused to the best thing that ever happened to him. As others have said, we can only go on what you tell us here on TAM. I think you are brave in your staunch stance on divorcing him, but if you truly believe that there is a possibility of reconciliation, you need to tell him that and lay down your demands, starting with a letter of NO CONTACT to the OW. Oh, and your suggestion to him, of going to see the OW to verify whether or not he wants to be with her vs. you: BAD IDEA. As someone earlier stated, that simply makes you the PLAN B. He MUST cut her off completely and he MUST do it NOW. There are many, MANY other requirements that he will have to fulfill (which if he means what he says, he will do with the UTMOST enthusiasm in order to help you recover from this debacle), ie. surrendering ALL passwords, deleting his FB account, confessing absolutely EVERY aspect of the relationship with the OW, just to name a few.

As many others here on TAM know, most reconciliations still in end up in divorce. However, I know I'm in the minority when I say that but based on what you have said, I do think there is the possibility here, that he played with fire and realized the mistake. And, yes, he may pay for it by losing his wife, but he may be sincere and truly want only you. I have read many, MANY threads here on TAM and know that so many TAM members in the CWI sub-forum have been badly burned by their spouses. Many of them are quick to declare a cheating spouse/marriage, a lost cause, and rightfully so in many cases. But every now and then, a marriage can be salvaged and even thrive from an infidelity situation. They are rare, but it does happen. Are you and your husband Christian? If so, I cannot recommend prayer enough. James 1:5 "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him". I promise, you will not be sorry.
 

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I will add my voice of cautious optimism.

The way you describe his own description of his story is how I envisaged it from what you wrote. He had an ongoing, fantasy ego boost from an old crush, a boost that provided nice, soothing background noise. He felt great - a wife he thought he was in love with & a fantasy gf who said all the right things. He didn't have the moral courage to do the right thing when you got married & now you have come to this juncture.

I have to tell you that I admire your strength of character. I think your instincts have been 100% correct.

What I could suggest is that you tell him you plan to go ahead with the divorce, but he can try to prove to you that he has had a true epiphany and is a better person. He has to prove it through actions, not words. He must research on how to help you heal from his affair; he must get counseling and stick with it; he must listen, learn, tell you the entire truth about the A, and take responsibility.

And you can watch and learn. There's really no fire here. You can take some time to make such a momentous decision. I would keep moving forward with the divorce, but allow that he can work to restore some trust. I think your determined approach has brought him this far & I wouldn't backtrack now if I were you.
 

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This is a very joyful day of my life because of the help Dr igbodo has rendered to me by helping me get my ex husband back with his magic and love spell. i was married for 6 years and it was so terrible because my husband was really cheating on me and was seeking for a divorce but when i came across Dr igbodo email on the internet on how he help so many people to get thier ex back and help fixing relationship.and make people to be happy in their relationship. i explained my situation to him and then seek his help but to my greatest surprise he told me that he will help me with my case and here i am now celebrating because my Husband has change totally for good. He always want to be by me and can not do anything without my present. i am really enjoying my marriage, what a great celebration. i will keep on testifying on the internet because Dr igbodo is truly a real spell caster. DO YOU NEED HELP THEN CONTACT Dr igbodo NOW VIA EMAIL: ([email protected]). He is the only answer to your problem and make you feel happy in your relationship.
 

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Nobody here can tell you if your marriage is worth saving. Only you can see if he is truly remorseful. You are taking the appropriate steps. Glad you are going to the MC by yourself the first time. Both of you should go to IC as well.

Both of you should read the books, Surviving an Affair and Not Just Friends. Ask yourself these questions. Can you live with the mistrust you feel? For years possibly until it can be built up again. Can he live with your mistrust? Is he really willing to do what it takes to build the trust again? How will he deal with your triggers? What is he willing to do to make you trust him again? What are your boundaries? How will you enforce them?

Only you can decide if your marriage is worth saving. You don't have to make that decision right now. Just watch until you are ready. Always remember Actions speak louder than words. I'm sorry for what you are going through. It is so unfair. Many of us will be here to support you what ever you decide. Hugs
 

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Discussion Starter #35
Last night my H went to his Dad's house to talk to him. They have a strained relationship and he feels like he has never quite lived up to his Dad's expectations and that his Dad has never been "proud" of him etc..... He actually TOLD his Dad what he did! This is a HUGE step. HE not only admitted what he did he asked for his Dad's advice on how he can fix it. His Dad is very religious so he suggested church, prayer and a lifestyle change. He told my H that there is no possible way that he loves this woman because there was no time invested, it was mindful or mental lust. My H who has pushed back from his Dad's belief's and prefers to stay away from his Dad actually went to him, listened to him, and now wants to try to be more like him. He came home with a book that his Dad gave him, Too Close Too soon. He started reading it last night. He asked me to go to church with him tomorrow night. We normally go only on Sunday mornings - never during the weekday services. But I did tell him I would go with him.
He woke up this morning with a proposition. He couldn't sleep the night before and so he started doing research and found a marriage boot camp (the same people who do the reality show, except its for normal people not celebrities) that is in Dallas, TX starting August 12. He wants us to go before I make a decision to divorce him.
He priced out airfare, hotel and the cost of the boot camp. It is expensive and I told him I didn't think we should spend that kind of money on this camp when we should focus on paying down joint debt so the inevitable divorce is less financial stress but he has asked me to at least consider it.
He says he is ready to do the work and come clean, accept responsibility and save our marriage.
Just when I think I can't be more confused.......
 

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I think a marriage boot camp is a great idea -> if he goes by himself.

He needs to get his sh!t together with his own IC. You sound very healthy and reasonable and shouldn't have to spend your dollars on an expensive boot camp after such a short marriage that he has royally effed up.

I think he has huge work to do to prove that he's worth your reconsidering your decision. That is his work, not yours.

Do you feel that you have all the details of his A?
 

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I JUST had a conversation with my friend (who lives in Bothell BTW) who is going through the SAME thing. You need to tell him that you won't share and until he sorts his "feelings" out you will be living your own life. I'm sorry, but you are worth more than that. It's pretty clear that he doesn't really love her. He may think that he does, but he is in fantasy land. What most likely will happen is he will go see her and be with her and maybe date her for a while, but then realize it was all in his head and come crawling back to you. I wouldn't take him back, but that's entirely up to you.
 

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In my opinion, you have a very tricky decision before you. As I said, I would take some time and not back down from the divorce decision. It is forcing him to stop eating cake & face reality.

You have already been through this dance with him and that turns out to have been a charade. After all, he convinced you to marry him after you discovered this the first time. Clearly, he was lying then. Facing divorce might shock him into honesty, but you can't gauge that, I would imagine, unless some time has passed.

What did he think would happen? That he would stay married to you, but continue with her secretly? Indefinitely?
 

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In my opinion, you have a very tricky decision before you. As I said, I would take some time and not back down from the divorce decision. It is forcing him to stop eating cake & face reality.

You have already been through this dance with him and that turns out to have been a charade. After all, he convinced you to marry him after you discovered this the first time. Clearly, he was lying then. Facing divorce might shock him into honesty, but you can't gauge that, I would imagine, unless some time has passed.

What did he think would happen? That he would stay married to you, but continue with her secretly? Indefinitely?
I think that's correct. He didn't think she'd find out and figured if she did he could cry and bullsh!t her. That hasn't happened so now he's in panic mode. .... given that he blew his second chance he has a severe credibility problem. I think there is a high probabilitiy that if she takes him back it's only a matter of time until skvnk is back in the picture and deeper underground.
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