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@ishtov

I went back and read through all of your posts again and I have a number of random thoughts in no particular order -

- Despite the roasting and beating you have taken here, you are actually a GOOD husband and father. You have actually done what society and the major religions have asked you to do as a husband and father. You have committed yourself to one woman and have remained faithful to her and have supported and stood by her through raising 4 children and have given her the love and attention she desires even though your physical attraction to her has waned over the years. People here may be treating you like some kind of pervert and deviant because you have admitted to finding other women attractive, but the reality is you have remained faithful to one woman and one woman only for 25 years and 4 children despite your normal, innate desires that every single person on the Planet Earth has (despite the denials that will inevitably come from a few posters after they read this) You have done what most of us here have not - you have remained in a committed and long term relationship with one person only for 50 years. Even Diana can not claim that (nor can I so it is fair of me to say that)

- IMHO I think what you are experiencing is just part and parcel of a normal, long term, monogamous relationship and the aging process. My wife is 53, 5'7" and slightly under 120lbs. She is a former teen model and state-level beauty pageant contestant. Polish her up and she could go toe-to-toe with many Hollywood hotties of her age. But is she what she was at 22? Of course not. Nor am I, and nor are any of us. I still think she is uber hot and sexy and desire her every moment of every day - but unfortunately she has lost desire for me (even though I am still fit and 6' 185lbs with visible muscle. Do I appreciate and notice the beauty of 20somethings?? Do I fantasize about throwing their legs over my shoulder and pile-driving them until one of us collapses (probably me LOL ) yes, of course. Every healthy and virile man does. But do I actually try to get in their pants? Do I want to divorce so I can be a single man chase whatever tail I want? No I don't. When I do the mental math, it just doesn't add up for me (yet) This is something that every man and woman goes through in long term monogamous relationships. Monogamy is a sacrifice and we give up certain freedoms and have to deny certain animal desires and instincts for the domestic stabilities and assets that exclusivity provides.

- Now can we as fit, gainfully employed, middle age men that are not deformed or disfigured date, hook up with, and perhaps even marry women? Yes. No question. Can we get with every young woman we find attractive? No. Not even Channing Tatum or George Clooney can do that. They couldn't do that even when they were in their 20s themselves. Can we even get a perfect, unflawed younger woman that will meet our every need and satisfy our every desire? No, that is silly. We are all still flawed human beings. If you put your mind to it and work at it, you can get a younger, slimmer, firmer woman. If you put in the effort and do the steps you can achieve that, but you are going to be trading one set of flaws and imperfections for another set of flaws and imperfections.

So the question comes down to how much does a slimmer, firmer, sexier body mean to you? How much does having the freedom and opportunity to pursue slimmer, sexier bodies mean to you? It comes down to values and mores. If you can't live with yourself another day/week/month/year unless you get with a different person with a slimmer, firmer, sexier body, you can do it. But you'll sacrifice the things and experience the negative things you have already mentioned in your posts.

It's not all bad. slim and firm women can be good people too, I don't mean to imply that all young, good looking women are train wrecks. Most are decent people. But everyone is different. Some people will be better than your wife in some aspects but will be worse in other aspects. That's simply a fact that we are all different.

Most of us at some point in our lives have decided that we simply needed "different." And/or most of us at some point have had someone break up with us because they needed "different" even though on paper we were adequate partners doing our job. Very few people in the western world remain with their first and one and only anymore.

It comes down to your own personal values and personal mores on what you are willing to give up in order to obtain what you want to get.

That choice is yours and yours alone.
 

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@oldshirt that was a well thought out response.

It closes the loop. The OP now has every possible perspective to draw from for his next move.

Which hopefully will be to appreciate his W or to show his respect for her as a person and split.

I'm hoping he'll go the appreciate his W route but that's just me.
 

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so you have a few options here.

Option #1 is what society and the major religions want you to do and that is suck it up and live with it. Turn away from other temptations (porn, other women etc) and look to what you have an appreciate that and keep soldiering on. All things considered, you have actually done a pretty good job of that so far.

And to be fair, there is a lot you can do here - date nights, trips and vacations away from home and away from the daily grind. Buy her sexy lingerie (I had a FWB that was overweight and had some wrinkles and cellulite and some normal sags that come with age, and some quality, name-brand lingerie transformed her into a smoke'n hot porn star in her own right!)

I would also suggest making another attempt at the kink. Here's the thing, dutiful wives and mothers are programed and expected by girl-code to push back and resist initial attempts at anything that's not standard. Some times it means they really don't want to and is something that they sincerely find distasteful. But other times they just want you to try harder. That is where wisdom and seduction come in. Wisdom is about learning the difference between the two. Seduction is about getting someone to do what they actually want to do deep down.

If she is this high-desire as you say, then she is probably interested in more than what you think she is. What's the worst that could happen? A woman you aren't that sexually attracted to in the first doesn't want to do something sexual with you????

Option # 2 is the obvious - divorce and move on with your own life and take your chances and see what you can do with the 2nd half of your life.

Despite all the moaning and groaning and gasps from the audience, it is a viable option. You've already raised your kids. You've already provided for a wife and family and have accomplished what society and the church have asked you to do.

There will be some legal obligations such as property division, court costs, lawyer fees etc but if the kids are grown there won't be child support. You haven't mentioned if she works or not but depending on her employment options and income etc you may or may not have some spousal support.

But you sound like a pretty objective and fact-based guy so do the math. Without a wife and kids in the home, do you need a big house with fancy furniture and landscaping? I know a divorced guy that lives in a rented room in an old lady's house who has 3 motorcycles and golfs several times a week and dates whoever and whenever he pleases and he's never been happier.

Do the real math. Would living the way YOU want to and doing the things you actually want to do without having to shell out for kids and a wife be affordable? Would the cost vs benefit ratio actually come out in favor of paying some spousal support and then being able to spend the rest on motorcycles and golf equipment or dating 20 year old sugar babies actually be worth it to you?

for some guys the answer is no, but for other guys the answer is yes.

Option #3 is some kind of open marriage type arrangment. This can take many forms. One is just outright cheating, lets just get that out in the open right now. You can cheat which will give you the benefits of marriage plus the excitement of getting some strange. This can be finding another woman that is into you that is desperate enough that she will take up with a married man.

Other options include escorts, sugar babies and other professionals. They make their living by being discrete and keeping things on the downlow and by providing good service.

The con is you will get caught eventually and then you'll have to deal with all that fallout and aftermath. The kids will be resentful. The wife and all her friends and family will be resentful. Just a bad deal all around but the option is out there.

Another option is Dont Ask/Don't Tell. You each have that option out there, but you just continue on with your regular daily life and just don't talk about it. It's basically admitting your bedroom is dead and you find comfort in someone else's bed but you each stay for the stability of home life and to keep up public appearances.

Another form of that is a more open arrangement where you openly date and hook up with others but remain married and keep everything open on the table. Just keep in mind that even though you don't find your wife attractive, millions of other men will and while you will be damn lucky to find one other woman that will have you under such an arrangement, your wife will have other men lining up down the street and around the corner every day. Her hardest challenge will be determining how many she has the time and energy for and which ones to turn away.

And there is also swinging. Swinging is a bit different than open marriage in that swinging is something you do together as a couple and get with other couples and such together. It's bringing another level of stimulation and excitement into the marital bed together as a couple as part of your marital dynamics. If she is as HD as you say she is, she may go for it if it is presented in the right manner.

You see, you may think you are all that and that you keep her completely satisfied. But the truth is, she is having the same desires and the same feelings of boredom and yearning for strange as you are (she will just deny it) If you truly open up the discussion and truly allow her the opportunity to explore this, she will be tentative and hesitant at first, but once she gets a taste of it, she may take off running with it.

But again be warned, you'll be challenged finding other women that will want to be with you where as basically every man with a pulse will be down for getting with her.

Those are your basic options and again, it will come down to your own personal values and mores. What do you value most and what are willing to pay and what are you willing to sacrifice?
 

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I can't judge you frankly, sadly we can't choose what triggers us as men, we can only communicate it. Some men are harder to trigger than others.

Ex-wife after childbirth lost the weight extremely fast via pole dancing as an exercise, however every body is different, your wife needs to find the right exercises for her - some would make her put on even more weight. Sometimes it may not even work at all and you just have to make a choice. She and I had other problems that diminished my attraction for her.

Even if it may put your marriage on the rocks, I do recommend being honest about it, otherwise there's no way you can work through this, for better or worse. You may find it's not even the physicality that turns you off, that's what I found with ex-wife.
 

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I can't judge you frankly, sadly we can't choose what triggers us as men, we can only communicate it. Some men are harder to trigger than others.

Ex-wife after childbirth lost the weight extremely fast via pole dancing as an exercise, however every body is different, your wife needs to find the right exercises for her - some would make her put on even more weight. Sometimes it may not even work at all and you just have to make a choice. She and I had other problems that diminished my attraction for her.

Even if it may put your marriage on the rocks, I do recommend being honest about it, otherwise there's no way you can work through this, for better or worse. You may find it's not even the physicality that turns you off, that's what I found with ex-wife.

For all we know, his wife may be a venezuelan pole vaulter.

She may be perfectly healthy and vigorous and she may be completely responsible and healthy with her diet and lifestyle.

He doesn't find her visually appealing. The rest of the entire earth's population may think she is perfectly attractive.

How much should any of us twist and turn ourselves into someone to be perfectly appealing to our spouse?

I eat well. I like to go to the gym. Most people would say I am reasonably fit and healthy for a man my age.

But I am kind of like the wife in this thread. My wife does not really desire me much or is all that attracted to me anymore :-( How much more should I do? Should I get some kind of hair transplant? Should I get lipo and abdominal sculpting to get abz? Should I get a face lift or pec implants (yes there is such a thing) Should I bump up my 1 hour of fun time at the gym into 2-3 hours of grueling workouts with an expensive personal trainer and taskmaster?

What if none of that works and she still fancies the guy at work or down the street or the playa' at the bar?

At what point do we need to change and at what point is it the other person's cross to bear if they don't find us attractive?
 

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For all we know, his wife may be a venezuelan pole vaulter.

She may be perfectly healthy and vigorous and she may be completely responsible and healthy with her diet and lifestyle.

He doesn't find her visually appealing. The rest of the entire earth's population may think she is perfectly attractive.

How much should any of us twist and turn ourselves into someone to be perfectly appealing to our spouse?

I eat well. I like to go to the gym. Most people would say I am reasonably fit and healthy for a man my age.

But I am kind of like the wife in this thread. My wife does not really desire me much or is all that attracted to me anymore :-( How much more should I do? Should I get some kind of hair transplant? Should I get lipo and abdominal sculpting to get abz? Should I get a face lift or pec implants (yes there is such a thing) Should I bump up my 1 hour of fun time at the gym into 2-3 hours of grueling workouts with an expensive personal trainer and taskmaster?

What if none of that works and she still fancies the guy at work or down the street or the playa' at the bar?

At what point do we need to change and at what point is it the other person's cross to bear if they don't find us attractive?
Yeah that's why I mentioned it could be more than physicality, my ex-wife was too easy, eager, and demanding. Which turned me off, despite an extremely fit body.
 

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I was giving him a real option because millions of people around the world get plastic surgery. There are risks involved like any other surgery.

I don't know anyone who has died or had complications from plastic surgery. I'm actually considering having some in the future.

His wife said no to surgery so that's not an option anymore. Oh well! I'm out of options here.
I have heard of several people who died and many whose had serious complications. A well known nhs doctor in the uk said they are constantly haing people come to them whose cosmetic surgery ops have gone drastically wrong.
 

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For all we know, his wife may be a venezuelan pole vaulter.

She may be perfectly healthy and vigorous and she may be completely responsible and healthy with her diet and lifestyle.

He doesn't find her visually appealing. The rest of the entire earth's population may think she is perfectly attractive.

How much should any of us twist and turn ourselves into someone to be perfectly appealing to our spouse?

I eat well. I like to go to the gym. Most people would say I am reasonably fit and healthy for a man my age.

But I am kind of like the wife in this thread. My wife does not really desire me much or is all that attracted to me anymore :-( How much more should I do? Should I get some kind of hair transplant? Should I get lipo and abdominal sculpting to get abz? Should I get a face lift or pec implants (yes there is such a thing) Should I bump up my 1 hour of fun time at the gym into 2-3 hours of grueling workouts with an expensive personal trainer and taskmaster?

What if none of that works and she still fancies the guy at work or down the street or the playa' at the bar?

At what point do we need to change and at what point is it the other person's cross to bear if they don't find us attractive?
Yes good point. I think that once it gets to the point of one spouse wanting the other to have risky major surgery to change their looks, its the end of the road.
 

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The problem is not her weight even though the OP says it is. The problem is she’s not a 20 year old porn star. There is no amount of plastic surgery in the world to be a 20 year old porn star.

Kanye wests mom died from plastic surgery.
Well, he's got his preferences, I understand that. I have my taste in men and I know I would never be attracted to fat men.

I don't think he wants a "porn star." I think he wants his wife not to have a belly or being fat. Many married people struggle with that.

He feels attracted to other younger women because he's around them, not his fault really. I'm attracted to other men, that doesn't mean I'm going to cheat. He hasn't cheated and he's looking to solve his problem.

The way he talks about himself is a little vain but that's the way he is.

I wish there was a way to fix his problem without being radical, but I don't see another option. Telling him he needs to change and find his wife attractive is not realistic, he might do it after having a brain reboot. I'm out of options for the guy here.
 

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It doesn't matter.

For all we know she may be a knock out and have men drooling all over her wherever she goes.

She may be objectively very good looking to the masses, but for whatever reason he does not find her visually or physically appealing. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and he does not behold her beauty.
Absolutly. I mean for example for me, middle eastern men do not hold any attraction (unless he looks like Omar Shariff used to!!). We are all different in who we find attractive.
 

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I have heard of several people who died and many whose had serious complications. A well known nhs doctor in the uk said they are constantly haing people come to them whose cosmetic surgery ops have gone drastically wrong.
You don't have to have plastic surgery, your choice, but there are millions of people around the world having it with great results! My mil is one of them, and many cousins and friends too. None of them had any complications from the surgeries. I'm definitely getting some in a few years, nothing drastic but it's something I want to fix and my husband is supportive of my choice.

It's such a beautiful thing to be free and be able to choose, don't you think?
 

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You don't have to have plastic surgery, your choice, but there are millions of people around the world having it with great results! My mil is one of them, and many cousins and friends too. None of them had any complications from the surgeries. I'm definitely getting some in a few years, nothing drastic but it's something I want to fix and my husband is supportive of my choice.

It's such a beautiful thing to be free and be able to choose, don't you think?
I just think its very sad that women feel they need to.Why not just accept yourself and love yourself as you are? In the UK its thankfully far more rare, I only know one woman who had a very minor op on her eyes and that was my husband's ex. He didnt want her to have it, and he would hate it if I wanted any cosmetic operations.
 

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I just think its very sad that women feel they need to.Why not just accept yourself and love yourself as you are? In the UK its thankfully far more rare, I only know one woman who had a very minor op on her eyes and that was my husband's ex. He didnt want her to have it, and he would hate it if I wanted any cosmetic operations.
Not all women who get plastic surgery feel they NEED it. Most people Just think life is short, and why not get the boobs, or whatever you want.
Let’s not kid ourselves and say looks aren’t important. And no one can control what they are born with. It’s nice to know that things can be modified if they want.
 

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Funny story? Lol. About five years, my wife and I were getting our yearly physical with Navy Tricare and we would go see the Doctor at the same time. My wife gained substantial weight from our one daughter’s birth and spent three years getting it off. Due to the long time, she had a loose tummy. She expressed a desire to have a tummy tuck. Me, not necessary but will support her.

The Navy would do the tummy tuck but we would pay for it. We paid about $4,500 for the tummy tuck eventually. During the consult and the wife being unaware, I recommended that she get a breast reduction. Bra straps would just devastate her shoulders. Her head snapped towards me like I was the devil.

She thought it over and agreed that it wold be great to have it done. The Navy WOULD not charge for the breast reduction as it was deemed medically necessity and both procedures were done beautifully and my wife remains over the moon about the change.

For us, it was about risk versus rewards. We take risks every time we leave the house, go driving or just living life. The risk was worth her happiness and the rewards are great. For my wife, it was her personal choice and I supported her fully.

IMHO, one should discuss risk versus rewards with partners and medical professionals before deciding. She shocked me with her desire for a tummy tuck and I shocked her with the breast reduction recommendation. All came out superb. Knock on wood.
 

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Not all women who get plastic surgery feel they NEED it. Most people Just think life is short, and why not get the boobs, or whatever you want.
Let’s not kid ourselves and say looks aren’t important. And no one can control what they are born with. It’s nice to know that things can be modified if they want.
They seem to think they need it. Why would anyone go though major surgery unless they were very discontent with their body?
 

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I just think its very sad that women feel they need to.Why not just accept yourself and love yourself as you are? In the UK its thankfully far more rare, I only know one woman who had a very minor op on her eyes and that was my husband's ex. He didnt want her to have it, and he would hate it if I wanted any cosmetic operations.
Don't feel sad, feel glad there are options for people who want to improve something they are not happy with.

Most women don't go and get a full makeover! Usually it's a small change. I want a little change around my eyes, the change can be medically necessary if it gets worse. I see it slowly getting worse.

My mil wasn't happy with her double chin and droopy eyes. Those areas you can't reduce with diet or exercise. She had plastic surgery done and she looks good, nothing drastic, it suits her face really good, you can't tell she's got any work done. She is happy showing her neck, she's confident and happy! That's what matters.

You are happy the way you are and my mil is happy with the surgery she got. Different things make us happy and that's perfectly fine!
 
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