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I can't believe I'm here. I guess everyone says that. We have 4 school-aged children. Everyone thought we had the coolest family. You name it, we did it. RV trips, Disneyland, etc etc. She has a very large, very close family, and they all love me (I hope that doesn't sound arrogant, but really, they do because they all respect me and love hanging out/talking to me). Her dad is like one of my best friends. Same story as so many. She was caught in an EA with a person from work, then everything was my fault. I didn't hold her hand enough. I didn't help with groceries. I didn't "let her be her". etc etc. The thing is, she has always been a total family person and loved being a mom and a wife. We both worked at the same place, and I decided to retire early (at 50) to take care of the kids and leave a very stressful/demanding job. Now, she doesn't know what she wants in life, and says she is unhappy because of "the way I allowed you to make me feel". She wants space, but she doesn't want to leave because she says she would be "abandoning the kids". We have been going to counseling but her emotional walls are up, so everything she says she wants (more hand holding, more affection, better listening) is almost impossible, because of her walls. Nobody in our LARGE circle of family and friends can understand what she is going through, and everyone I've talked to says they wish she would "snap out of this". It has shaken the entire family. When I talk to her, I swear it is like talking to a different person. Even her facial expression looks like someone else. We have not filed for D. We have not separated. But I think both/either is very possible, and even likely if nothing changes.

I am going to individual counseling (aside from our joint counseling), to work on ME throughout this. I know there are things I can do better, and I do take some responsibility for things at times not being perfect (I am one of those people who dive headfirst into my hobbies, so I know I should have cherished her more). She also has one of those mean, abrasive personalities, and at times I took her jabbing personally instead of letting it go. The counselor I am seeing doesn't want to hear anything about her, and if I bring her up he turns it back around to me, to work on myself. It's been tough, because I am very upset, not only with the EA, but at the way she has distanced herself emotionally with me, and the way she seems to have lost her own identity and understanding of what will make her happy. Our four children know about the EA, and they are scared we will D, because things don't seem right in the house. This is so tough, because we had one of those families everyone noticed and enjoyed being around. This has shocked everyone. I have been sleeping on the couch for 3 months, because she needed "space" and made it weird if I slept in bed with her. Three of the kids sleep in the front room with me, like a slumber party, every night. So, every morning when she comes down stairs and goes to work, she sees us all sleeping in the front room. I know it effects her. You have to understand this woman is/was a family woman and wanted nothing more than to have a family, like her parents, and this is not the idea she had in mind for her life. I spend every day doing homework with the kids, with very little adult contact, and then she comes home and then veg's out. She spends a few moments with us, to make an appearance, and then disappears to have her space. We have decent small talk about things, like work or whatever (it is less strained lately). I feel this is a MLC, I am sure, but then again I think it is also her hard-headed nature, since she has spent so much time talking to everyone about our problems (So, I feel like if she gave in and committed to working things out it would make her look like the bad guy - she HATES to feel like people think she is wrong). Everyone is shocked, even people from work, because she used to brag about me to everyone, all the time. We were "that couple". Now, it's a mess.

I have been trying to stay busy and work on me. I work out, play guitar, work in the yard, etc, even though it is hard. This has been difficult because I want to hold my wife, make love, etc, and this is like living with another dude. A cold, emotionless dude. Everything (intimacy) stopped as soon as I found out about the EA, and even though she says that is done, I have no way of knowing. I also kind of don't care, because I'm sure this guy doesn't want to deal with four kids, and an ex-husband everyone knew and respected. I was sooooo scared of a divorce, because I feel like who out there is going to want to date a 52 year old dude, even though I look young for my age, I am in very good shape, attractive, and I play in a popular band in the area (not sure if that means much, but hey it's something, no?). I've been avoiding talking to her about our relationship. I've been trying to 180, and detach, but I also get conflicting advice from some who say "fight for your marriage with everything you've got". I don't kiss her butt. I don't beg. I don't ask for answers or for assurance. I don't leave notes or follow her around. But, lately I am pissed off. Very. I deserve better, and I want to say "make a decision or file". I feel like after 3 months of this (the EA started 6 months ago), we have got nowhere, other than our time spent together is less strained. I know she doesn't trust me, because I'm sure she feels like if we talk about "things" I will make her feel guilty. I feel like the only thing that will snap her out of this is if she knows she is losing me and all this (house, property, etc). Or, in other words, if I call her bluff. I don't even know that I want things to work out I am so hurt, and it isn't because of the EA. It is the way she is dealing with this whole thing. She is like a train wreck right now, and in some identity crisis.

My gut tells me things are repairable, because our problems were typical, annoying spouse problems. The good far outweighed the bad. But, I know my friends (and her family even) are all tired of seeing me like this, because it is the opposite of my typical personality. I am normally very confident, funny, etc. I feel like if I call her bluff, and I am willing to move on with my life, A) she will wake the f*** up, or B) I will somehow get through it but be proud that I didn't put up with being with someone who does not want to be with me. So, I don't know if I wait (and let her make the decisions), or if I push so I can get on with things.
 

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Sorry you're here, but welcome to TAM. You have a very informative initial post and well written.

Digesting, for now it appears something in her alone time has changed her demeanor, that's a given as you already know.

Initially I'd make her sleep on the couch.

A lot of good folks here.

Care for yourself more at the moment. She's not so much right now and it may get worse.

Or it might get better, unknown at this point.

But you have to start putting yourself first for now. And of course she'll say everything is your fault as she attempts to rewrite history or justify some of her potential wrong doings.
 

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So, why are YOU on the couch? If she wants space then she should be sleeping on the couch, not you. She's the cheater, she gets the couch. Inconvenience her, not yourself.

I'm willing to bet that her EA isn't over, and you SHOULD care about that if you want to reconcile. She is never going to be all in with you if she has another guy in her head. It doesn't matter that he won't want "4 kids and the ex-husband around". As long as he's in the picture your marriage is toast. And quite frankly, he most likely just wants to **** her. Her having four kids and a husband really doesn't matter in that scenario.
 

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I can't believe I'm here. I guess everyone says that. We have 4 school-aged children. Everyone thought we had the coolest family. You name it, we did it. RV trips, Disneyland, etc etc. She has a very large, very close family, and they all love me (I hope that doesn't sound arrogant, but really, they do because they all respect me and love hanging out/talking to me). Her dad is like one of my best friends. Same story as so many. She was caught in an EA with a person from work, then everything was my fault. I didn't hold her hand enough. I didn't help with groceries. I didn't "let her be her". etc etc. The thing is, she has always been a total family person and loved being a mom and a wife. We both worked at the same place, and I decided to retire early (at 50) to take care of the kids and leave a very stressful/demanding job. Now, she doesn't know what she wants in life, and says she is unhappy because of "the way I allowed you to make me feel". She wants space, but she doesn't want to leave because she says she would be "abandoning the kids". We have been going to counseling but her emotional walls are up, so everything she says she wants (more hand holding, more affection, better listening) is almost impossible, because of her walls. Nobody in our LARGE circle of family and friends can understand what she is going through, and everyone I've talked to says they wish she would "snap out of this". It has shaken the entire family. When I talk to her, I swear it is like talking to a different person. Even her facial expression looks like someone else. We have not filed for D. We have not separated. But I think both/either is very possible, and even likely if nothing changes.

I am going to individual counseling (aside from our joint counseling), to work on ME throughout this. I know there are things I can do better, and I do take some responsibility for things at times not being perfect (I am one of those people who dive headfirst into my hobbies, so I know I should have cherished her more). She also has one of those mean, abrasive personalities, and at times I took her jabbing personally instead of letting it go. The counselor I am seeing doesn't want to hear anything about her, and if I bring her up he turns it back around to me, to work on myself. It's been tough, because I am very upset, not only with the EA, but at the way she has distanced herself emotionally with me, and the way she seems to have lost her own identity and understanding of what will make her happy. Our four children know about the EA, and they are scared we will D, because things don't seem right in the house. This is so tough, because we had one of those families everyone noticed and enjoyed being around. This has shocked everyone. I have been sleeping on the couch for 3 months, because she needed "space" and made it weird if I slept in bed with her. Three of the kids sleep in the front room with me, like a slumber party, every night. So, every morning when she comes down stairs and goes to work, she sees us all sleeping in the front room. I know it effects her. You have to understand this woman is/was a family woman and wanted nothing more than to have a family, like her parents, and this is not the idea she had in mind for her life. I spend every day doing homework with the kids, with very little adult contact, and then she comes home and then veg's out. She spends a few moments with us, to make an appearance, and then disappears to have her space. We have decent small talk about things, like work or whatever (it is less strained lately). I feel this is a MLC, I am sure, but then again I think it is also her hard-headed nature, since she has spent so much time talking to everyone about our problems (So, I feel like if she gave in and committed to working things out it would make her look like the bad guy - she HATES to feel like people think she is wrong). Everyone is shocked, even people from work, because she used to brag about me to everyone, all the time. We were "that couple". Now, it's a mess.

I have been trying to stay busy and work on me. I work out, play guitar, work in the yard, etc, even though it is hard. This has been difficult because I want to hold my wife, make love, etc, and this is like living with another dude. A cold, emotionless dude. Everything (intimacy) stopped as soon as I found out about the EA, and even though she says that is done, I have no way of knowing. I also kind of don't care, because I'm sure this guy doesn't want to deal with four kids, and an ex-husband everyone knew and respected. I was sooooo scared of a divorce, because I feel like who out there is going to want to date a 52 year old dude, even though I look young for my age, I am in very good shape, attractive, and I play in a popular band in the area (not sure if that means much, but hey it's something, no?). I've been avoiding talking to her about our relationship. I've been trying to 180, and detach, but I also get conflicting advice from some who say "fight for your marriage with everything you've got". I don't kiss her butt. I don't beg. I don't ask for answers or for assurance. I don't leave notes or follow her around. But, lately I am pissed off. Very. I deserve better, and I want to say "make a decision or file". I feel like after 3 months of this (the EA started 6 months ago), we have got nowhere, other than our time spent together is less strained. I know she doesn't trust me, because I'm sure she feels like if we talk about "things" I will make her feel guilty. I feel like the only thing that will snap her out of this is if she knows she is losing me and all this (house, property, etc). Or, in other words, if I call her bluff. I don't even know that I want things to work out I am so hurt, and it isn't because of the EA. It is the way she is dealing with this whole thing. She is like a train wreck right now, and in some identity crisis.

My gut tells me things are repairable, because our problems were typical, annoying spouse problems. The good far outweighed the bad. But, I know my friends (and her family even) are all tired of seeing me like this, because it is the opposite of my typical personality. I am normally very confident, funny, etc. I feel like if I call her bluff, and I am willing to move on with my life, A) she will wake the f*** up, or B) I will somehow get through it but be proud that I didn't put up with being with someone who does not want to be with me. So, I don't know if I wait (and let her make the decisions), or if I push so I can get on with things.

Well, there is a lot there...and of course we are getting just your side but...

I didn't really care about a lot of that. Why? Because in some ways it is irrelevant. The core of the issue is SHE IS OR WAS HAVING AN AFFAIR.
None of that other stuff matters. You weren't this, you weren't that, you didn't pay enough attention. Blah, blah, blah. NONE of that EVER justifies an AFFAIR
That is 100% on her! She chose to betray you and according to you, you have no way to even know for sure that it is over or if emotional was as far as it went and that they really weren't or aren't screwing.
The affair is the main issue.
You deal with all that other crap AFTER the affair part is settled.
Do you even want her back? I assume she works with the guy and STILL works with the guy and sees and talks to him every day. Even if you wanted her back you'd be a FOOL to not require her to leave the job where he is....they can't even see or talk to each other again......NON-NEGOTIABLE.
Do you want to live the rest of your life checking on her, checking phone records, e-mails, texts, asking where she is or where she was, wondering if she is being honest or lying.

Why are YOU not sleeping in your own bed? That is utterly ridiculous. Who cares if she doesn't want you there. If she has a stick that far up her aaaass that she can't even sleep in the same be as her own husband that SHE betrayed and cheated on then SHE can move her precious, self indulged tush to the couch.

I thinks you are totally being taken advantage of that YOU are getting kicked out of your own room. I do not even know you and I do not have much respect for you and sort of consider a soft pushover who gets bullied and won't stand up for themselves.

Personally, my advice is always NEVER STAY WITH A CHEATER.

The affair is the one and only issue here. She should be begging and pleading for you to forgive her and take her back. Who gives a crap about all of her space issues. Screw that.
She had an affair on her husband.
You do not just sweep that aside and then listen to her justify by telling you why you made her do it and you need to give in to her pathetic list of me, me, me, give me space demands.

Why do you want her back at all?
She doesn't even sound as if she is sorry and that she blames you and that you need to pamper her mid life crisis.

You should file for divorce, be utterly furious and disgusted by her sleazy affair, ignore and reject any attempt to blame you for causing her to have an affair and do not even consider reconciliation unless she is totally crushed and remorseful over betraying her wedding vows and her husband.

I cannot believe you got kicked out of your own room and you are viewing this through HER ISSUES and what SHE NEEDS and WANTS when she had a freaking affair on YOU!!!!!!!
 

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Soooo, she started connecting more with someone outside the family enough to create a wall/distance from that family - and YOU are sleeping in another room?

oh NO... she caused this change - SHE is the one who should bear the penalty for the change!

without consequences she won’t change!!! Start making HER UNCOMFORTABLE!!! Kick HER out! Or at the minimum have HER sleep on the couch!

why are you bending and twisting to her requests? Start making demands! Start telling her if SHE doesn’t take responsibility For HER bad behavior and make effort to repair that damage SHE caused - she will be divorced!

and if she doesn’t make extreme effort - divorce her!

stop being her doormat! You’ve been too wimpy... start knowing you have your kids/family - without her!

you can have your family and relationship ships without her. Start living like you can and showing your kids that life can be great without toxic Mom ruining everything!
Do not hesitate to kick her out ASAP if her attitude shows no remorse and that sense of entitlement!
 

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I pretty much agree with Hinterdir and Beach123, but I can understand that part of you would like to fix things.

She's the sort that gets attack-y when she's caught in the wrong. How much do you actually know about the EA, and how was it discovered? And how come your children know about it??

Let's assume the following things are all true, just for what it's worth
  • You really didn't hold her hand enough. you didn't help with groceries, you weren't a good listener. In other words, things were not perfect. And she wasn't good at asking for those things, or you didn't listen, or both
  • Of course, none of that justifies an affair at all. She should have tackled her dissatisfactions in other ways
  • everything she said she wanted (more hand holding, more affection, better listening) is now almost impossible
  • she feels like if we talk about "things" it will make her feel guilty. And she has low tolerance for guilt. So she feels like she's trapped in hell.
  • You are very hurt, and it isn't because of the EA. It is the way she is dealing with this whole thing, unable to come to the table and talk, the most basic of relationship skills.
  • But so far, she has been willing to come to MC, and she'd really like this fixed.
So what the hell is your MC doing? Are they competent?

And supposing all the above statements are true, what do you think you should do?
 

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I do appreciate the comments regarding the ridiculousness of me sleeping on the couch. I am in no way justifying this happening, but here is a bit more to consider. She did not "kick me out of the bed/room" or tell me to sleep on the couch. I chose to do this it when she was asking for "space". Again, not justifying it, and to be honest I didn't want to sleep with her anyways I was so pissed. Weeks back, I told her I was going to return to the bed, and she said she didn't care where I slept, but after one night there just felt cold, so I said to myself I'd rather be on the f***ing couch. Over the weekend we took the RV out and I made sure to be the first in bed, and she elected to sleep in the bed with me (even though she scooted all the way over to the other side, to prove a point I think). She could have easily slept on the fold out with the kids. This is not me having false hope or giving her good girl points, it just is what it is. And, sleeping on the couch with all the kids around me is also kind of a way that she can see kids and I are very close, and we would do just fine without her. Yes, it looks like I am a pushover, but if you knew me personally you would know that is not the case, nor has it ever been. I'm just trying to figure out if I wait out this MLC by giving her space to get through this, or if I decide I've had enough. As far as the EA, I'd be lying if I didn't say I just about fell into the same trap with a coworker a few years back, since we work so closely with each other. It was nowhere near what she did, but the "stones at a glass house" and the "stick/plank in the eye" is a consideration, and it is far too common where we worked. Yes, my ego wants to draw a line and be done, and believe me when I say that is an issue that will need to be addressed before we decide to reconcile. There is no way I'm agreeing to move forward and "repair" things, until that issue is addressed. If it is something she does not want to address, then I have no choice but to move on.

These are not comments to justify her behavior, or to justify not filing for divorce. I just want to feel like every rock was turned before we make such a decision, and believe me when I say I am running out of rocks. I think, for me, I just need to know I tried everything, so I (and my kids) can look back and know I did everything I could, and she made her choices from there. You guys have me thinking though.... seriously.
 

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I pretty much agree with Hinterdir and Beach123, but I can understand that part of you would like to fix things.

She's the sort that gets attack-y when she's caught in the wrong. How much do you actually know about the EA, and how was it discovered? And how come your children know about it??

Let's assume the following things are all true, just for what it's worth
  • You really didn't hold her hand enough. you didn't help with groceries, you weren't a good listener. In other words, things were not perfect. And she wasn't good at asking for those things, or you didn't listen, or both
  • Of course, none of that justifies an affair at all. She should have tackled her dissatisfactions in other ways
  • everything she said she wanted (more hand holding, more affection, better listening) is now almost impossible
  • she feels like if we talk about "things" it will make her feel guilty. And she has low tolerance for guilt. So she feels like she's trapped in hell.
  • You are very hurt, and it isn't because of the EA. It is the way she is dealing with this whole thing, unable to come to the table and talk, the most basic of relationship skills.
  • But so far, she has been willing to come to MC, and she'd really like this fixed.
So what the hell is your MC doing? Are they competent?

And supposing all the above statements are true, what do you think you should do?

She has a very low tolerance for guilt, or for people telling her that she is wrong. When we were active Catholics, she wigged out if we were going to confession, every time. Once we got in such a bad argument waiting in line for confession I left her at the church (a stupid move I am still paying for). It wasn't worth the marriage, so we stopped being "Catholic". I think this is something from her childhood, which she has kind of mentioned, because somehow people/her parents made her feel dumb at times, or that is just the way she takes things. So, maybe this EA thing is something that burden's her but she can't discuss because of how she is, and maybe she would rather have a divorce and end things than deal with all that guilt. Maybe it is just easier for it to go away.... but that is just me thinking too much.
 

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You suspect a midlife crisis.
How about menopause? It can look pretty similar.
What age is your wife?

As you used to work at the same company, do you know the person she has been in contact with?

In what way has her EA been worse than your EA? And did your wife know about your EA?
 

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But why aren’t YOU forcing HER to sleep on that damn couch?

she wants space? Put her on the couch! You are so passive of course she is walking all over her doormat!

you want to set things right? Make sure SHE is the one that’s uncomfortable! SO uncomfortable that she realizes she is being squeezed OUT of the family! SO uncomfortable that SHE starts to think “hmmm, maybe I’ll lose my family; maybe I’ll change!”

you bowing to her isn’t working!!!!
 

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I do appreciate the comments regarding the ridiculousness of me sleeping on the couch. I am in no way justifying this happening, but here is a bit more to consider. She did not "kick me out of the bed/room" or tell me to sleep on the couch. I chose to do this it when she was asking for "space". Again, not justifying it, and to be honest I didn't want to sleep with her anyways I was so pissed. Weeks back, I told her I was going to return to the bed, and she said she didn't care where I slept, but after one night there just felt cold, so I said to myself I'd rather be on the f***ing couch. Over the weekend we took the RV out and I made sure to be the first in bed, and she elected to sleep in the bed with me (even though she scooted all the way over to the other side, to prove a point I think). She could have easily slept on the fold out with the kids. This is not me having false hope or giving her good girl points, it just is what it is. And, sleeping on the couch with all the kids around me is also kind of a way that she can see kids and I are very close, and we would do just fine without her. Yes, it looks like I am a pushover, but if you knew me personally you would know that is not the case, nor has it ever been. I'm just trying to figure out if I wait out this MLC by giving her space to get through this, or if I decide I've had enough. As far as the EA, I'd be lying if I didn't say I just about fell into the same trap with a coworker a few years back, since we work so closely with each other. It was nowhere near what she did, but the "stones at a glass house" and the "stick/plank in the eye" is a consideration, and it is far too common where we worked. Yes, my ego wants to draw a line and be done, and believe me when I say that is an issue that will need to be addressed before we decide to reconcile. There is no way I'm agreeing to move forward and "repair" things, until that issue is addressed. If it is something she does not want to address, then I have no choice but to move on.

These are not comments to justify her behavior, or to justify not filing for divorce. I just want to feel like every rock was turned before we make such a decision, and believe me when I say I am running out of rocks. I think, for me, I just need to know I tried everything, so I (and my kids) can look back and know I did everything I could, and she made her choices from there. You guys have me thinking though.... seriously.
Does she still work with this person and see and talk to them every day?
 

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A couple of things here. First off, she is the one behaving badly and you are rewarding her for it. The entire family is suffering and half of you are sleeping on the floor while she is cozy in bed. Why is that? If you think this is going to win her back, you are sadly mistaken. I wrote an article about how to get your spouse to treat you better. It is directed towards women, but it's the same for anyone, male or female. If you reward someone for their bad behavior, it encourages them to continue it. Here's a link: How to Get Your Husband to Treat You Better | The Feminine Review: Homemaking, Family and the World

She has a very low tolerance for guilt, or for people telling her that she is wrong. When we were active Catholics, she wigged out if we were going to confession, every time. Once we got in such a bad argument waiting in line for confession I left her at the church (a stupid move I am still paying for). It wasn't worth the marriage, so we stopped being "Catholic". I think this is something from her childhood, which she has kind of mentioned, because somehow people/her parents made her feel dumb at times, or that is just the way she takes things. So, maybe this EA thing is something that burden's her but she can't discuss because of how she is, and maybe she would rather have a divorce and end things than deal with all that guilt. Maybe it is just easier for it to go away.... but that is just me thinking too much.
I don't get this. What is your faith? Do you believe in Jesus? Are you a Catholic? If so, why on earth would you leave your faith because someone is unwilling to go to confession? This isn't about what she does. It is about what you believe and what you do. It is also about what you are teaching your children. If you want to renew practicing your faith, do it.

You seem like a very passive person to me and it doesn't seem to be serving you or your family well. Please read the article I posted. I hope it gives you some insight.

One more thing: Your wife is probably having a physical affair and it's probably not over. Don't trust a word she says.
 

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For those who asked, yes she knows about my situation with a coworker. I told her during a conversation after finding out about her EA. Yes, I had inappropriate feelings, but no I never shared them with the coworker. It was just me having feelings, but having the common sense to not act on them or tell the coworker. I'm just saying I could have easily fell into the same trap if she would have opened the door.... I found out about the texting when I looked at a phone bill and saw a number that appeared too many times. I didn't know who it was, so I asked her if she had been communicating with someone she shouldn't have, and she immediately said yes. She has stated it was selfish and she liked the attention, and at the time our relationship was lacking (4 kids, bills, husband who is interested in band more than wife, etc). She fell for it, and fell for the lines, and as much as I hate her for it, she is human like all of us. That does not mean I will ever get over it, but I could have fallen in the same trap. Hopefully, that answers some of your question
 

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Wow, just wow...

You and the entire family are kind of super deniers... Maybe you guys just don't understand...

Here is what is actually going on.

1) She did not have an EA, it was and still is a full on physical affair. Do you get that YET????

2) She has lied to you about everything. Further, she gaslight you and her whole family. As an aside, I cannot believe that no one in the family has figured this out yet.

3) She has basically made a fool out of you, sleeping on the couch, please.

4) She is trying to wait for him to leave his wife, and she will divorce you, ASAP. The affair obviously is still going on, you get that i hope.

I guess those are the biggest.

What should you do??

File for divorce and have her served at work. It will wake her up or you get a head start with your new life.
 

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Quit making excuses FOR her!!!

sheez, you seems like an extreme doormat.

she isn’t changing! She is blaming you (because you ALLOW that). She isn’t attempting to repair that damage SHE has caused!

all of these things leave you ONE option = Divorce her now! Have her move out immediately! That’s all you need to know. Those are your only options in order to save your self respect and the respect of your kids.

lead by example! Would you like any of your kids to be treated this way by a spouse? If not, start taking action to get ahold of the family.

you CAN be a great family without your Disrespectful wife causing hardships in the house!
 
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