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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Long story short is I have good reason to suspect my H had an affair (maybe more than one) 20 plus years ago. My suspicions were aroused in 2011.

I want desperately to believe him when he tells me he has never strayed. I can put my suspicions out of the forefront of my mind much of the time but it's always there in the background and from time to time something will trigger my suspicions and I am starting to feel that I will never get out of my cycle of emotional torment unless he agrees to a take a poly. He has refused saying he does not believe in them, taking one "would change who he is". He has also said that a person who is telling the truth and fails a poly would likely feel suicidal. For these reasons, I took the poly issue off the table.

I have not brought up my suspicions or wanting a poly for nearly a year now and do not want to give him an ultimatum. However if he doesn't agree to take a poly I believe it will be best for me to call it a day on our marriage.

To be fair to him, he may not realise how much these doubts still hurt me. He is a bury your head in the sand type of person I would say. I want to let him know how much these suspicions still affect me (mentally and physically).

The man I thought I was married to would not want his wife to be in the place I find myself. I would not ask for a poly if I didn't have good reason (my story is here http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/28373-dont-recognise-my-h-myself.html)

He is not a talker - he won't want to talk about this. How do I approach letting him know what I need without appearing needy and without giving an ultimatum. Am I being immature to want him to want to help me feel better?

Your thoughts please. I can't take being in this limbo much longer.
 

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I haven`t cheated on my wife & I wouldn't take a poly if she asked.

I don`t know what you can do about a twenty year dead possible infidelity.
 

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Ok, I just wanted you to get a quick response - I know it sucks waiting for a response and I am off to one of my 12 step groups.

The previous post was long - which is fine not knocking it - so I couldn't read it all. However, if you had an STD that causes miscarriages, to me, I guess I'm not sure why you let that pass. Your doctor sucked for not explaining stuff enough to you.

It sounds like yes, of course, your H is a rotten tomato. Mine is too, ok? There are a lot of them here - both men and women. So you want to know how to make yourself feel better.

Work on yourself.

Work out. Get a better job if you work or get a job if you want to work. Get good friends, then better ones. Be surrounded by people you can count on cuz you can't count on your H. You can really only count on yourself.

You cannot make anyone do anything - ever. He has to decide if wants you to be better. It sounds like he worries only for himself.

If you have any S-anon or Cosa groups or Al-anon even start going to them - they WILL HELP you focus on yourself and not focus on your H and that is what will help you in the end. If you can go to counseling great. If you want to start counseling with him fine too - as long as he doesn't lie, which he will. Counseling does not help if the partner lies. I've been there - it worsens all problems. So don't go to MC unless he fesses up. Work on yourself.

You can serve him papers if you want him to do the poly, but it sounds like he would take the papers. Work on yourself.

I have a Sh8tty husband. Lied the whole marriage. But he goes to meetings, group counseling, IC and would take a poly tomorrow if I wanted. I just don't want to, cuz I don't want to give him hope and giving me the poly would be the last thing he could do. He wants to put the house in my name, the car, anything I want so that I will stay. That is how remorse begins to show - all of that: the 2 meetings per week, the constant apologizing when I rage, the weekly group meetings, the weekly IC, the giving me of what I want. But you know what? All that and I still don't feel any better. I must work on myself. Remorse or not - he still lied and cheated in some form for our entire relationship. He has a broken mind. He is not a good husband. He wants to be now - but it still doesn't make me feel better. I must work on myself. Good luck. Time to go to my meeting - that is working on myself.
 

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I read your previous post.

You had an STD years ago.. like 20 years ago. Either one of you could have brought that STD into your marriage. You said that you were sexual with one person before you married your husband and you know he had sex before you but you don’t know how many people he had it with.

You have NO PROOF what-so-ever that your husband is the one who brought the STD into your relationship. Yes you could have been the one who did that.

You have NO PROOF what-so-ever that your husband cheated on you ever in your relationship.

But you want him to take a polygraph test. They are inaccurate 75% of the time. I will never take one for that very reason. If he did take a polygraph test, you still would not know if he cheated on you or not. The inaccuracy of the test will only cause you more doubts.

It sounds to me like you are looking wanting to blame your husband for the STD because then you are not responsible for the miscarriages is caused. Or maybe you just want out the marriage and so need to have a reason.

If he has not cheated on you, he will never admit to cheating. If he did cheat on you he has refused to admit it and will probably continue to refuse. The fact that he refuses to admit it does not mean he cheated or did not cheat. The STD does not prove that he cheated either.

If you want a divorce, just divorce him and stop torturing him.

If you don’t want a divorce, deal with your feelings about your suspicion that your husband might have cheated on you decades agoe, a suspicion based on zero evidence.
 

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If your doubts are not put to rest, they will continue to grow and poison your relationship. You have identified what you feel is important to you, knowing the truth, and how you would want to get to that point, a poly. I am a bit unclear as to why you want to approach this situation without seeming "needy" or proposing an ultimatum. This is one of your needs by definition, so whether you want to seem needy or not doesn't really matter. If this need of your doesn't get addressed, your relationship is doomed anyway.

His excuses for not wanting to take a poly seem a bit out of left field and would certainly raise red flags in my book. Im not sure how taking a poly would fundimaentally change him as a person. They may not be accurate enough to be used in court, and they could certainly give false positives or negatives, but taking one wouldn't change him in the least, unless he is hiding the truth, in which case it would force him to address it, and that could certainly change who he is as a person.

Just talk to him, explain that this issue is a make or break issue for you, and if he wants to continue being married he will comply, or present you with a satisfactory alternative solution (assuming one exists)
 

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Which STD?

I thought a girl gave me an STD once. It was actually yeast infection or some other infection that antibiotics cleared up. Happened a few times with other girls and once with my wife.. it may have been the condoms actually as there was a correlation with condom use and these infections. I tested negative for gonorrhea and chlamydia.
 

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I would never take a poly because the results cannot be relied on. Even if I hadn't lied, I still wouldn't take one. What ever his reasons, I don't blame your husband for refusing to take one.

You have not said which STD you and he had. It seems clear though that either one of you could have been infected. Miscarriages are awful but rarely anyone's fault.

You say in your other thread that you thought your husband was bugging your phone and pc. What did you do about that? What did you do about your suspicions that he had hidden money in other accounts? What did you do about finding out why he was not at work when he should have been? Did you put a voice activated recorder in his car? Did you investigate further on your theory that he has fathered other children?

I suspect the answer to all of the above is that you didn't do anything. You cannot prove what went on in the past but you were advised to investigate what is going on now.

A poly isn't going to tell you what you want to know and you are going to have to accept that. If you find out he's cheating now, fine - kick him to the curb.

Seems to me that you are looking to blame your husband for something and want a hook to hang it on. It's perfectly fine to divorce your husband because the marriage isn't working for you. You can't change the past but you and only you are responsible for your own future.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I haven`t cheated on my wife & I wouldn't take a poly if she asked.

I don`t know what you can do about a twenty year dead possible infidelity.
Thanks Tacoma - If my H wanted me to take one because he was emotionally conflicted and without peace of mind, despite his best efforts, I would take one to try and help him get over this. Apart from the question of accuracy (but not dismissing this necessarily), can you please help me understand why you wouldn't take one when you have nothing to hide?
 

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Thanks Tacoma - If my H wanted me to take one because he was emotionally conflicted and without peace of mind, despite his best efforts, I would take one to try and help him get over this. Apart from the question of accuracy (but not dismissing this necessarily), can you please help me understand why you wouldn't take one when you have nothing to hide?
I suspect because the test can easily give a false positive. Imagine the hurt that would needlessly cause.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
...So you want to know how to make yourself feel better.

Work on yourself.

...Counseling does not help if the partner lies. I've been there - it worsens all problems. So don't go to MC unless he fesses up. Work on yourself.

You can serve him papers if you want him to do the poly, but it sounds like he would take the papers. Work on yourself.

...
Thanks Boobie 110

To work on myself is good advice. I have done this to some extent but need to do more and to be consistent. We did have approx 5 counselling sessions about a year ago. My H had always been 100 per cent against going to counselling but he did go and I was grateful for this. In the first session, without my bringing up the topic of a poly, the counsellor suggested this. H managed to persuade her and me to take this off the table and the sessions concentrated more on how we could get over/avoid long period of not speaking.

With the counselling, the questions of infidelity was dealt with by us both signing something saying we had never cheated on each other.

Throughout the counselling I felt he implied that although either one of us could have brought the STD into the relationship, he felt it was more likely to be me as I had the more recent other sexual partner (i.e. I slept with someone in the year we were apart where he had said that he hadn't slept with anyone else since 3 years before we first met). A few weeks after signing, (and post the last counselling session) he tells me he lied about it being 3 years before we met that he has slept with anyone else and that he had slept with two women in the year we were apart. This unsettled me (? manipulative on his part) but as it is not actual infidelity, I decided to just let this go. l

Anywas as regards counselling, he will never go back. Before we went he said he didn't have a problem and that it wouldn't help. I believe it has helped us generally as we no longer go weeks on end not speaking like before, often over trivial matters. I am glad I no longer have fear such periods of not speaking which I found so crushing and isolating.

I think the counselling helped to some degree re the suspicions of infidelity in that by the last session I was 90% convinced that he is not a cheater. I really tried to let it go and leave it to God to deal with him if he was lying but I have not quite been able to sustain this although I really want to. I want to coz I love him. Life would be a whole lot easier if I didn't love him and could easily detatch from him. Sometimes I feel really distanced from him and numb but I want things to work out and for us both to be happy.

Thanks for the reminder to work on myself. It's encouraging to know that doing this is working for you.
 

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Long story short is I have good reason to suspect my H had an affair

Your thoughts please. I can't take being in this limbo much longer.
I read your link and about the STD.

Where you a virgin when you married?

Ask your Dr that treated you/if not possible then your current Dr all of the ways of how you could of caught the STD.

Then you may have your proof.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I read your previous post.

You had an STD years ago.. like 20 years ago. Either one of you could have brought that STD into your marriage. You said that you were sexual with one person before you married your husband and you know he had sex before you but you don’t know how many people he had it with.

You have NO PROOF what-so-ever that your husband is the one who brought the STD into your relationship. Yes you could have been the one who did that.

You have NO PROOF what-so-ever that your husband cheated on you ever in your relationship.

But you want him to take a polygraph test. They are inaccurate 75% of the time. I will never take one for that very reason. If he did take a polygraph test, you still would not know if he cheated on you or not. The inaccuracy of the test will only cause you more doubts.

It sounds to me like you are looking wanting to blame your husband for the STD because then you are not responsible for the miscarriages is caused. Or maybe you just want out the marriage and so need to have a reason.


If he has not cheated on you, he will never admit to cheating. If he did cheat on you he has refused to admit it and will probably continue to refuse. The fact that he refuses to admit it does not mean he cheated or did not cheat. The STD does not prove that he cheated either.
If you want a divorce, just divorce him and stop torturing him.

If you don’t want a divorce, deal with your feelings about your suspicion that your husband might have cheated on you decades agoe, a suspicion based on zero evidence.


I think my main issue re the STD and the miscarriages is why didn't he tell me what the doctor privately asked him if he was sleeping with anyone else? The doctor never told me I had an STD. Yes I am stupid (naive at best) for not realising that the infection was an STD. Once my H realised I had an STD why didn't he question me about it at the time if he knew he had never been unfaithful himself? Remember that at this time there was no internet. He wouldn't have known that the STD could be dormant for a number of years at that point in time. It was in 2011 that I told my H the STD could lie dormant. His keeping quite about what the doctors told him makes we wonder if he just kept quiet to hide cheating?

The reason I am thinking of splitting is because I can't get to peace of mind on this issue. You are right in that bringing this up will torture my H whether or not he cheated. Please know that if I am torturing him I am torturing myself also. I don't want to be like this.

I don't want a divorce per se. I'm considering it as I don't know how to deal with not being able to prove or disprove my suspicions with zero evidence. Because there is zero evidence as you have pointed out does erase my memory or suspicions. I wish it did, I really do. If anyone can help me come to terms with this please .....

Thanks for your thoughts on this EleGirl - as hard as it is to hear.
 

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In my opinion you really need counselling; whether by a family member, friend or counsellor might not matter.

You need an outside perspective on this.

I don't wish to be rude, but your thought process does not seem to be 100% rational and you are making a BIG decision based on this process.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Can you have your medical records checked? Was it an STD? Or an infection that could have been an STD or have had another method of transmission?
It was Trichomonas. I just wish the Doctor and my H would have discussed it with me at the time it was discovered all those years ago.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
If your doubts are not put to rest, they will continue to grow and poison your relationship. You have identified what you feel is important to you, knowing the truth, and how you would want to get to that point, a poly. I am a bit unclear as to why you want to approach this situation without seeming "needy" or proposing an ultimatum. This is one of your needs by definition, so whether you want to seem needy or not doesn't really matter. If this need of your doesn't get addressed, your relationship is doomed anyway.

His excuses for not wanting to take a poly seem a bit out of left field and would certainly raise red flags in my book. Im not sure how taking a poly would fundimaentally change him as a person. They may not be accurate enough to be used in court, and they could certainly give false positives or negatives, but taking one wouldn't change him in the least, unless he is hiding the truth, in which case it would force him to address it, and that could certainly change who he is as a person.

Just talk to him, explain that this issue is a make or break issue for you, and if he wants to continue being married he will comply, or present you with a satisfactory alternative solution (assuming one exists)
He is aware I do not understand the reasons he has given me but can offer nothing further.

I had also asked him if he would be prepared to swear on the bible as to his fidelity. Again he said this was against his principles. I an aware he has done jury service in the past and recently the topic came up and I asked him if he would do jury service again, bearing in mind it involves swearing on the bible. He said yes he would do it again. I just feel hurt that he can swear on the bible for a bunch of strangers but not for me to ease my mind.

My honest feeling is that if I went public with our issues to the wider family etc. he might then agree to swear on the bible or take a poly to try and prove something to them but I have no intention of going this route. He cares very much for what people think of him. It's odd how he'll sometimes happily do things for others that he will moan about doing for me or refuse to do for me.
 

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Thanks Tacoma - If my H wanted me to take one because he was emotionally conflicted and without peace of mind, despite his best efforts, I would take one to try and help him get over this. Apart from the question of accuracy (but not dismissing this necessarily), can you please help me understand why you wouldn't take one when you have nothing to hide?
Because of the question of accuracy.

God forbid I`m innocent and a poly claims I`m not.

What utter tragic irony that would be
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
You imply that you suspect there has been ongoing infidelity that you haven't described here. Is that correct?
Over the years there have been a number of times when my suspicions were aroused. Having been cheated on in the past I put these mostly put these suspicions down to my own paranoia and said nothing. On a couple of occasions I asked him directly and got nowhere, we ended up not speaking and on one occasion he turned on me most uncharacteristically and shouted/swore in my face which was a shock. After that I never raised any suspicions again until 2011.

I am focused on the STD because this is the closest to proof I can get. The other things could be in my mind, just my gut, righrt or wrong. The STD is a fact. We both now know I had an STD.

I'll give an example of something I haven't followd up. I came home from work early one day many years back to find the chain on the front door and was unable to get in. I rang the bell, knocked on the knocker for a good ten minutes before he eventually came and let me in. He said he was sleeping pstairs and didn't hear the bell. We don't usually keep the chain on the door all day. I let this go, putting it down to my own insecurities but stuff like this has come back to me since I have come to know that I had an STD but was never told. The STD thing has me questioning everything. I know I'm not doing myself any favours but it's just the way it is.

Another part of me wonders if I was right to dismiss stuff as paranoia due to being cheated on in the past. Still not sure how I didn't question us both having to be treated for an infection without suspecting something at the actual time. Was this due to trust, denial or what. My head spins. Just want some peace. With the STD, even if he could acknowledge that I have reason to be concerned, confused, suspicious it would be of some help.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I would never take a poly because the results cannot be relied on. Even if I hadn't lied, I still wouldn't take one. What ever his reasons, I don't blame your husband for refusing to take one.

You have not said which STD you and he had. It seems clear though that either one of you could have been infected. Miscarriages are awful but rarely anyone's fault.

You say in your other thread that you thought your husband was bugging your phone and pc. What did you do about that? What did you do about your suspicions that he had hidden money in other accounts? What did you do about finding out why he was not at work when he should have been? Did you put a voice activated recorder in his car? Did you investigate further on your theory that he has fathered other children?

I suspect the answer to all of the above is that you didn't do anything. You cannot prove what went on in the past but you were advised to investigate what is going on now.

A poly isn't going to tell you what you want to know and you are going to have to accept that. If you find out he's cheating now, fine - kick him to the curb.

Seems to me that you are looking to blame your husband for something and want a hook to hang it on. It's perfectly fine to divorce your husband because the marriage isn't working for you. You can't change the past but you and only you are responsible for your own future.

Thanks Louise7. The STD was Trichomonas.

Does it really come across that I would feel better about the miscarriages if it could be proved that my H brought the STD into the marriage? Our babies will still be gone regardless of who it was so that is not the issue. I am thankful to have gone on to have children afterwards. The issue is was he faithful throughout the time we've been together. This would be an issue with or without my having lost the babies.

The reason the marriage isn't working now is because I cannot let go of the suspicions. The other main issue for the marriage was the long periods of not speaking and this was addressed during the MC and we have both made efforts to get over this and done well. Any other issues we have are minor - not deal breakers at all.

I am sending you a PM.
 
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