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Well there is this guy who's statue is in the US Capitol.



His name graces at least 54 buildings, highways, and bridges.

There is Che Guevara's statue in Central Park. A racist, mass killer, and hated homosexuals whom he put into work camps.

There is Margaret Sanger's bronze bust at the Smithsonian. Affiliated with the KKK, she promoted abortion of black babies and supported Nazi sterilization programs of undesirables.

Harvey Milk's bust in San Francisco's City Hall. While loved as an icon of homosexuality, he was a pedophile.

FDR has an entire memorial in DC. He sent Americans of Japanese descent into concentration camps in WWII. He was racist against the Japanese. Lesser known was he also sent Americans of German and Italian descent to concentration camps.

J. William Fulbright's statue at the University of Arkansas. Bill Clinton openly admired Fulbright, calling him a role model for him. Fulbright was a segregationist who filibustered the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and voted against the Civil Rights Act of 1965.

Vladamir Lenin has a statue in Seattle. He was a vicious leader who was responsible for mass starvation, executing political opposition, and sent people to concentration camps.

I'm sure there are more, but that would be a start. I highly doubt we'll see BLM or Antifa protesting any of these monuments.
Thanks for replying, but some of these are on private land and thus not comparable. And the one about Milk is irresponsible.
 

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Thanks for replying, but some of these are on private land and thus not comparable. And the one about Milk is irresponsible.
Private property is not a concept recognized by BLM or Antifa. It has not been a barrier to their outrage before. They boycott if nothing else.

Either you missed the point or are obfuscating to avoid the elephant in the room.
 

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Thor is correct! I listened to sound bites of some of the horrendous racial comments Joe Biden has made over the years yesterday. Do yourself a favor and go back to the 70s and listen to some of the things that Joe Biden has said about African Americans, Indians, etc. It is sickening. The media will never question him about any of it. It's another case of selective outrage for only one side.
 

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Private property is not a concept recognized by BLM or Antifa.
Strawman.
It has not been a barrier to their outrage before. They boycott if nothing else.
Do you recognize their right to boycott anyone they like?
Either you missed the point or are obfuscating to avoid the elephant in the room.
I thanked you for it, but I think we all have more voice in what is done on public land than on private. Do you agree?

And calling someone a pedophile is a very serious charge, which historically has been used very recklessly against gays.
 

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Strawman.
Do you recognize their right to boycott anyone they like?
I thanked you for it, but I think we all have more voice in what is done on public land than on private. Do you agree?

And calling someone a pedophile is a very serious charge, which historically has been used very recklessly against gays.
Hey I'm just pointing out that the protests conveniently avoid those believed to be on the correct political party regardless of the actual truth of who the person was or what the really did.

Is there any evidence the destructive protestors respect private property or where a monument sits?

The destructive and violent protestors actually don't care about truth or private property. They care about tearing down the country. They care about the media coverage.

This isn't about my values, it is about the endless hypocrisy of the woke progressives.

You are an excellent apologist for them.
 

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Is there any evidence that shows anything other than the vast minority of protestors are pulling down statues. How many people protested over the last few weeks, yet you cannot stop talking about the handful that did this. People want to talk about monuments, a few people tore some down.

You judge them by the actions of a few, while telling them that all cops aren't bad. It doesn't work both ways. I would rather have someone around that pulled a statue down than contributed to the killing of Elijah McClain, for example.

The hypocrisy of unwoke stagnation.
 

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Tas, did you not see the video of the two people holding guns defending themselves in front of their house in Portland? The news reported it as a peaceful protest and said the protesters remained on the sidewalk. In truth, they were on private property, had torn down a gate to access and was walking down the property owner's driveway. The 2 owners came out with a pistol and gun to defend their home. Come to find out, the owners are Democrats, lawyers, and have represented clients of police brutality. The crazy part is that the DA is investigating the two homeowners for defending their own home! It's NUTS!
 

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Tas, did you not see the video of the two people holding guns defending themselves in front of their house in Portland? The news reported it as a peaceful protest and said the protesters remained on the sidewalk. In truth, they were on private property, had torn down a gate to access and was walking down the property owner's driveway. The 2 owners came out with a pistol and gun to defend their home. Come to find out, the owners are Democrats, lawyers, and have represented clients of police brutality. The crazy part is that the DA is investigating the two homeowners for defending their own home! It's NUTS!
Did I say anything about that somewhere and don't remember it?

Are you talking about the people in St Louis? I am really confused now. Oh, it is Portland Place, the street they live on.

I don't know that they own the street, but it appears to be a gated neighborhood. The people were marching to the governors house I believe, and as far as I know, there was no one hurt and only the gate was damaged as they tried to get in. I am not excusing it, but I am not calling out the couple either. Were they afraid, I am sure they were. It's like both sides have something to talk about and people just focus on a gate or holding a gun.
 

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BLM are now moving into Beverly Hills and other affluent neighborhoods. BLM were screaming "Eat the Rich" and "Abolish Capitalism Now" while marching in Beverly Hills. I guess we will get to see how tolerant the left is when BLM enters their affluent neighborhoods, starting fires, looting and setting up an autonomous zone in their yards
 

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Tas, did you not see the video of the two people holding guns defending themselves in front of their house in Portland? The news reported it as a peaceful protest and said the protesters remained on the sidewalk. In truth, they were on private property, had torn down a gate to access and was walking down the property owner's driveway. The 2 owners came out with a pistol and gun to defend their home. Come to find out, the owners are Democrats, lawyers, and have represented clients of police brutality. The crazy part is that the DA is investigating the two homeowners for defending their own home! It's NUTS!
All part of of it. Punish the people trying to protect themselves and their property and side with the rioters, looters, etc. That might be the reason gun and ammo sales are up 80% from this time last year. People are slowly realizing that the courts, government and media are don't care about them just the narrative. They know the time is coming when they will have to protect themselves. Train is on the downhill slope and the brakes are out.
 

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There are enough non-peaceful people involved, including at the top, that the violence, looting, vandalism, and sedition are very real problems to very many people in very many places. It is disingenuous to downplay the criminal activity as rare or meaningless.

Furthermore, every peaceful protestor who does not leave a gathering which has become unfriendly also becomes a part of the problem. Mobs thrive on mobbery, and even those who do not personally destroy property or attack people are active participants in the riot. Those who support the protests but do not strongly and consistently work to stop the lawlessness are complicit themselves.

This thread started as a discussion of the riots wrt Floyd, not the topic of public debate on police brutality. The rioters are plentiful, not an obscure irrelevant fringe of the BLM/antifa movements.
 

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So, is it disingenuous to downplay police brutality and the vast amount of unequal law enforcement?

Riots are obscure events, statues are obscure events. How long has it been since there has been a riot, weeks? How are we defining that would matter I guess, but still, very little news of anything other than peaceful protests and some statues toppled. Yet, here were are talking about how they are a mob destroying America.

Also, talking about the riots, by avoiding the reasons why they are happening, seems like a pretty fruitless discussion.
 

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So, is it disingenuous to downplay police brutality and the vast amount of unequal law enforcement?

Riots are obscure events, statues are obscure events. How long has it been since there has been a riot, weeks? How are we defining that would matter I guess, but still, very little news of anything other than peaceful protests and some statues toppled. Yet, here were are talking about how they are a mob destroying America.

Also, talking about the riots, by avoiding the reasons why they are happening, seems like a pretty fruitless discussion.
There are a number of difficult discussions that need to be had before any meaningful progress can be made. Unfortunately, many of those discussions are not allowed to be had because they are shamed, looted, and canceled into silence.
 

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There are a number of difficult discussions that need to be had before any meaningful progress can be made. Unfortunately, many of those discussions are not allowed to be had because they are shamed, looted, and canceled into silence.
Can You clarify who is doing the shaming looting and canceling? I feel like you’re saying the minorities or Black Lives Matter is doing that.
 

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Also, talking about the riots, by avoiding the reasons why they are happening, seems like a pretty fruitless discussion.
Exactly, the riots are distracting from the real issues, and for good reason. So how does that help their cause? It doesn't, but they do it anyway because they don't know any better.

It's already in the news, people are already open for debate, so enough of dangling their cocks around and bring a better message to the table than anarchy.
 

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Hey I'm just pointing out that the protests conveniently avoid those believed to be on the correct political party regardless of the actual truth of who the person was or what the really did.
Yes, and most of them capably point out we have public monuments to people w/ outdated mores the protestors aren't objecting to. But, if I exaggerate I would appreciate the fact check and offer it in return.
Is there any evidence the destructive protestors respect private property or where a monument sits?

The destructive and violent protestors actually don't care about truth or private property.
Destructive or violent protestors by definition aren't respecting property that isn't theirs, but some of us don't need to tar all protestors with that brush. I think it is valid for anyone to protest a monument on public land. While it is legal to protest a monument on private land, I think it is ridiculous.
They care about tearing down the country. They care about the media coverage.
Strawman.
This isn't about my values, it is about the endless hypocrisy of the woke progressives.
I haven't heard their opinion about FDR's statue so I don't feel qualified to call them hypocrites. The fact that they have failed to address your preferred grievance before addressing their own doesn't make them hypocrites IMO.
You are an excellent apologist for them.
Name calling.
 

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Furthermore, every peaceful protestor who does not leave a gathering which has become unfriendly also becomes a part of the problem.
It's nice to know that one person w/ a can of spray paint can silence 100,000 people who want to express a legitimate grievance.
 

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Yes, and most of them capably point out we have public monuments to people w/ outdated mores the protestors aren't objecting to. But, if I exaggerate I would appreciate the fact check and offer it in return.
Destructive or violent protestors by definition aren't respecting property that isn't theirs, but some of us don't need to tar all protestors with that brush. I think it is valid for anyone to protest a monument on public land. While it is legal to protest a monument on private land, I think it is ridiculous.
Strawman.
I haven't heard their opinion about FDR's statue so I don't feel qualified to call them hypocrites. The fact that they have failed to address your preferred grievance before addressing their own doesn't make them hypocrites IMO.
Name calling.
Once again, this thread is about the riots, not about those peacefully standing with signs or engaged in scholarly discussions.

I pointed out that the rioters conveniently only attack monuments they believe are to the "wrong" side. Which tells me this is mostly not about facts or honest discussion, it is about angry lashing out at political or racial targets. It is about stirring up hatred, but only against certain factions.

Now if there were protests about Senator Byrd it would be a totally different thing, wouldn't it? It would be about actual racist people who did actual racist things. Not at all the same thing as stampeding private property when they assume or believe the occupants to be white or on the "wrong" side. An by "wrong side" I do specifically mean conservative, traditional, Constitutionalist, or Republican.

Again, I am not "tarring all protestors", I am pointing out the mindlessness, idiocy, and hypocrisy of those involved in the non-peaceful protests, aka "riots" as related to the topic of this thread. If you want to discuss topics related to peaceful protests we have done that on other threads, where my White Privilege was pointed out as blinding me to Systemic Racism and Micro-agressions which have permanently disabled black people from advancing out of poverty.

Those who are violent do not want to have a peaceful discussion. The leadership certainly intends to take down America to be rebuilt into Marxist state. If you don't know this you haven't been paying attention. The hoodlums on the streets looting stores may or may not share this goal. They may largely be "useful idiots".

My preferred grievance? Oh come on man! I am pointing out THEIR GRIEVANCE which conveniently skips over Democrats. I personally don't give a flying **** if Senator Byrd has a statue. I am merely responding to YOUR request for examples of monuments which have been left alone due to the leftist affiliation of the person memorialized.
 
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