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Discussion Starter #1
This is by way of a couple of statements. NOBODY has ever been forced to cheat. Not by marital problems, not by lack of sex, not by lonliness, not by the BS, not by the AP, not by ANY outside influence, OF ANY KIND. Cheating is a choice made by and for the WS. The reasons for it are ONLY in the minds OF the WS's. You , simply put, CANNOT force, persuade, coerce cajol, beg, shmooze, order or plead for a person to cheat, IF THEY DON'T WANT TO. The only truly remorseful WS's are the ones who take ALL of of the Blame for the cheating, on their own heads , without any excuses of any kind.
That is my take on it.
 

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I can't force my dog to run off or to bite me but I can create conditions which will make it more likely that either will happen.
Wonderful, do you know what separates us from animals? Our conscience, the ability to think before making decisions. Which is perhaps the only reason why we can be malicious and selifsh.

But dogs are a bad analogy, my good man. You do know that they are more faithful than most wives.
 

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That's the first time I heard that excuse. Nothing justifies an affair.

My ex h said I set him up to cheat, blaming me. WTHeck? Really? I set him up to hunt down women and sleep with them.

I'm so glad those days are over. I left that fool and married a very honorable man. I have no doubt in my mind he'll never cheat. He spends all his time with us and calls me several times a day while he's working(when he gets a moment).
 

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That's just the rationalization hamster. It goes round and round until they come up with that kind of conclusion. Because it then becomes compatible with the idea they have of themselves, because even cheaters like to think of themselves as "good people".
 

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NOBODY has ever been forced to cheat

or kill, or take something that doesn't belong to them, or in my religion - divorce

They are ALL WRONG

under certain conditions some are justifiable -
 

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No one forces them to cheat, so there is no excuse,
but after they confess (we have all seen it) they have no good reason for it either.
Even when we tell them you have to go to ic and find out why you did this.
(Low esteem, dirty girl, lonely, etc..)

Its like no one can force them but also they cant stop themselves.

Confusing?
Posted via Mobile Device
 

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"Forced to cheat?" Sure!!! That's such a compelling answer!

I guess that nasty old person just put a gun upside their head and made them cheat! If that's the scenario, then I would think that they would call that "forcible rape!"
 

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But they're just doing what they need to do to survive!

Wouldn't the true wrong be to deny themselves the pleasure they need?
 

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But they're just doing what they need to do to survive!

Wouldn't the true wrong be to deny themselves the pleasure they need?
Survive what exactly? Death, or just that insatiable sexual twinge that they're feeling between their legs?
 

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As unbelievable said... At the point I chose to cheat, my wife had put me in a situation with a number of really bad options. Separation/divorce with all the financial and emotional impacts to the kids and family... "Putting up" with the situation, with the continued escalation of frustrations, resentments, and tension, followed by having to chose from the same bad list later. Or trying to meet my needs elsewhere while keeping the family together and unaffected.

I made that choice, and chose poorly. I don't blame anyone for forcing me to cheat, but I do blame my wife (at least partially) for forcing me to make a choice. She had many options up until that point. She KNEW our sex life wasn't satisfactory. She KNEW I was very unhappy with the current situation. Yet she refused to work with me to improve the situation.

In summary, the marriage vows are a two way agreement. Yes, I agreed to love her exclusively. But she also agreed to love me. Withholding sex and shutting down intimacy does not equal love, in my books.

C
 

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Or trying to meet my needs elsewhere while keeping the family together and unaffected.
This is a classic. I'm pretty sure the last thing on your mind or anyone else's mind was the family.

And life, my friend, is full of choices. The very fact that you get out of bed each morning, or that you brush your teeth is a choice. Over time you keep choosing the same thing over and over and over again till it becomes second nature.
 

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This is a classic. I'm pretty sure the last thing on your mind or anyone else's mind was the family.

And life, my friend, is full of choices. The very fact that you get out of bed each morning, or that you brush your teeth is a choice. Over time you keep choosing the same thing over and over and over again till it becomes second nature.
You can be sure of whatever you like, "my friend". You didn't live the last 5 years of my marriage. I spent months struggling with what to do in my marriage. And what effect my decisions would make on my kids was definitely high on my list of things that I thought about.

Again, I freely acknowledge that I chose to have two affairs. I've posted on here about them in the past. My decision to seek someone out was entirely my choice, not my wife's, not my affair partners, nobody elses but my own. And for the rest of my life, when I enter in a relationship with someone else, I'll have to admit that yes, I've cheated on someone else in my past. It's not something I'm proud of, and it's definitely not something I've advocated in any of my posts in here.

But my wife also had choices prior to me even considering having an affair. She chose to avoid our bedroom until she knew I was asleep, even if it meant getting a poor sleep on the couch and complaining about being tired all the time. She chose to make sure the kids came along on every travel opportunity and stay in our hotel room to make sure no hanky-panky occurred. She chose to drink to the point of begging off sex on the few occasions we did go out on the town without kids, and then as a bonus, she could claim the hangover the next day as a reason to avoid Sunday morning sex. She chose not to talk to me about her issues, not to talk to her doctor, not to get help if that's what she needed. In the same way no one can force someone else to cheat, no one can force someone else to get help or to change if they really don't want to do so.

I'm not claiming that this is the case in all situations and relationships. I'm sure there's lots of wonderful people who are cheated on for no apparent reason. But there's lots of us cheaters that would have given an awful lot to live out our lives in a happy contented marriage, and that option was taken away from us as well. We were left to look at a list of very bad options, and some of us chose wrongly. But yes, making that choice was entirely our decision.

C
 

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...

But my wife also had choices prior to me even considering having an affair. She chose to avoid our bedroom until she knew I was asleep, even if it meant getting a poor sleep on the couch and complaining about being tired all the time. She chose to make sure the kids came along on every travel opportunity and stay in our hotel room to make sure no hanky-panky occurred. She chose to drink to the point of begging off sex on the few occasions we did go out on the town without kids, and then as a bonus, she could claim the hangover the next day as a reason to avoid Sunday morning sex. She chose not to talk to me about her issues, not to talk to her doctor, not to get help if that's what she needed. In the same way no one can force someone else to cheat, no one can force someone else to get help or to change if they really don't want to do so.
Tough situation and in a sense isn't denial of conjugal rights 'cheating' of a sort?

Again cheating, killing, stealing, divorce - all WRONG
sometimes anyone of these acts are justifiable.

We should be happy to NOT be in a position to make a justification. And i don't mean a justification in mind only, as any act can be 'justified' in your mind.
i.e. I shot him b/c he's a bastrd; I shot him b/c he was about to shoot me
I took the bread b/c my child was starving and I was willing to risk jail: I took the bracelet b/c it looked cool and i didn't have money
 

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Although I know its impossible to do, I'm leaving God's law out for the moment. For simplicity, I'm going with a basic definition that "cheating" is having sex with someone other than your marital partner. Generally, when a couple have sex, neither of the two of them are hurt by the act. Quite the contrary. Keeping that general statement in mind, two married people involved in a liaison are not hurt (barring the possible aftermath) The people hurt are the other spouses.
When two people marry, there are certain responsibilities and expectation for each of them. One such expectation is love and affection. If one spouse willfully withholds love and affection, the other spouse is hurt and will sometimes seek it outside the marriage whereas had the love and affection been there, it wouldn't have happened. The irony of such a situation is that the one withholding the love and affection is the one screaming how bad they hurt when the cheating is disclosed, never stopping to think how they hurt and depreciated their spouse. My caveat is when you put your spouse at the bottom of your priorities, you may end up at the bottom of theirs.
Whether you consider it forced or voluntary, cheating on ones spouse is well thought about and internally sanctioned before it happens.
 

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People have to have some reason for doing what they're doing and that includes remaining faithful. It'd be pretty presumptious of me to punch my wife out and call her ugly names every day and then act amazed if she finds a friendlier male companion.
 

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Being forced, and having a choice are very different.

IF the draft was reinstituted, I would be forced to enter the armed forces (just assuming I get called up, making this easy)
My choice is to either: choose which branch I go into, or spend my time in jail for refusing to do it.

If you are in an unhappy marriage because you aren't getting enough sex/affection, or whatever it is you want you have the choice to either:
Try and fix it, and through lots of hard work, either fix it, or realize the marriage can't be fixed and divorce
Or cheat and make it worse.

And in both of these situations, there is a right decision to make. But it is also the harder choice to make.

Thinking I could go to Afgahistan to kill or be killed, is scary.
Sitting in jail is easy.

Talking with your spouse about your needs, and how they aren't being met, and how you two need to do some counseling, is hard because you have no idea how your spouse will react, and they may blow up on you.
Having an affair is easy.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
The choice to cheat is just one of the constants. the other one is that the WS will ALWAYS have tons of excuses or "reasons", why they chose to cheat. One follows the other. Let me ask the posters here on TAM this question. How many times have you seen a WS who made NO excuses? One who never mentioned anything except their own issues? Think hard about it, because they are fewer than hen's teeth. Can'tsitstill and Pidge are two of the very best.
 
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