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There's a whole portion of the raging ongoing discussion that intrigues me. And, once I managed to attract the love of my life (it had been a long-term interest), the conflict began in earnest.

This was 4 plus years ago.

Just about everything was tried to "fix" things.

Logic

Emotional appeals - including pleading

Behavioral adjustments

More than a bit of anger

Yet, no matter what was tried, nothing "really worked". And, when I say nothing "worked", I'm talking about what could/would keep alive the spark in the relationship.

Periodically, I would hear about her dissatisfaction with our sex life. Of course, those who read and understand here know exactly what was going on. It was one long fitness test.

Endless compromises... endless deals. Endless negotiations.. endless dissatisfaction with results.

Most men dread "day 100" of any relationship, as this is when some say the "wheels start to come off". It's now easy to understand what was/is going on.

Perhaps subconsciously, the tests begin. Are you man enough to maintain my interest? Are you man enough to be a father to the children? Are you man enough to control yourself, hold a job, be faithful, and stand up to others.

If you are, then prove it by standing up to me!

If you want to be my warrior, then show me your grace under pressure.

And, if you fail to control yourself, prepare for further tests, as I bore into your psyche and see what your fiber truly is.

Becoming a "nice guy" in response to this pressure if the road to hell. Trying to be perfect. Trying not to annoy. Trying everything in your power... stretching yourself to stay out of trouble.

No one is perfect. You will be tempted to lie and conceal - even to badmouth your wife to others as the pressure rises, as the very essence of your manhood gets swept away.

And, in the process, your wife will lose interest in this doormat of a man she has in her house.

This board is littered with the stories of men who have failed these tests. I was definitely one of those.

What I can tell you - for a fact - is that it is never too late to start passing them. Miles of ground can be made up in a very short time. But, first, you simply must be right with yourself and be able to conquer your fear. Conquer your fear of losing. And, when I mean losing, I mean losing her.

By conquering your fear of losing her, you will win her.

And, if she still doesn't respond? What have you lost? You're merely prepared for the future.



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By conquering your fear of losing her, you will win her.

And, if she still doesn't respond? What have you lost? You're merely prepared for the future.
Well spoken :iagree::iagree::iagree:


Makes me think of a friend of mine who is always calling me about her X --she is so afraid of loosing him again, she bends over backwards, forever trying to please him -when he is nothing but rude & inconsiderate in return, he is nice & loving to her when he wants something (usually sex) then is off again pursuing another, but she LOVES him- can't get him out of her system. I just want to shake her sometimes, she can not see how counterproductive this is & how it is hurting her. She has literally lost herself, becoming a doormat in his presence to please. I KNOW he finds it a weakness in her, and he will keep using to his advantage. He would have more respect for her if she stood up for herself & got over him. I guess it can go both ways - even women can learn these things. The female handbook is "Why men marry *****es " equivlent to "No More Mr Nice Guy"
 

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The world is green because it's fertilized with the decaying corpses of billions of men who have killed themselves trying to put a grin on a woman's face. I'm 49, crime free, drug free, Masters degree, Top Secret clearance, twice decorated combat vet, consistently employed for the past 35 years, my present and future finances are secure. My dogs love me. My kids love me. If I don't measure up to some lofty expectation a woman has, she can bite me. I'm taking care of all my own basic needs anyway and should I have the need for a woman, there are millions out there. Surely, I must be acceptable to one of them.
 

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The world is green because it's fertilized with the decaying corpses of billions of men who have killed themselves trying to put a grin on a woman's face. I'm 49, crime free, drug free, Masters degree, Top Secret clearance, twice decorated combat vet, consistently employed for the past 35 years, my present and future finances are secure. My dogs love me. My kids love me. If I don't measure up to some lofty expectation a woman has, she can bite me. I'm taking care of all my own basic needs anyway and should I have the need for a woman, there are millions out there. Surely, I must be acceptable to one of them.
A sincere thanks for your service to the nation.

Your post leaves me with a question.

Do you agree with the premise of my post? Or are you saying it's not worth the effort to learn this?



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A long post for you Conrad. I even got tested after nearly 40 years of marriage. Had a “mate” round for dinner. Wife had set the table up with her at one end, me at the other and the guy in the middle. It had never been setup that way before. Soon into the meal she started to antagonise and provoke me from the other end of the table. I’m pretty aware these days so I didn’t respond. I sat there thinking wow she’s set this whole scene up, must have taken some planning that. I knew she was in an EA with him although she’d denied it. I didn’t respond. After I told her I ain’t fighting for you. You want to go with him you go. I actually bought her a ticket back to our home country and I bought it out of her money with her card. Felt really good that. Foolishly and for the wrong reasons I got her back out again.

Bob
 

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Conrad,

I don't know. Part of me thinks a relationship either works or it doesn't. People who are self-absorbed and who need powder sugar blown up their backsides are probably not worth the trouble they require. Life doesn't have to be that complicated or difficult. I bust my hump to no avail while I see men who barely qualify as human beings celebrating their 25th anniversary.
 

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Conrad,

I don't know. Part of me thinks a relationship either works or it doesn't. People who are self-absorbed and who need powder sugar blown up their backsides are probably not worth the trouble they require. Life doesn't have to be that complicated or difficult. I bust my hump to no avail while I see men who barely qualify as human beings celebrating their 25th anniversary.
There is no doubt that one size does not fit all. We simply cannot "own" the emotional response of another person. That's a formula for insanity.

I'm talking about what we can do - and what I've experienced.

There's no telling whether I have many anniversaries to go either. I would prefer to grow old with her. The other side of that arrangement isn't up to me. But, I now understand the playbook.

I appreciate your post.



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Ever play a game when the other person is unaware that a game is being played. If only one partner has a play book with a set of rules and the other partner does not have either it seems the game is not only unfair but possibly a fantasy.
Isn’t that what’s happening in the mind of a person who is having an affair? The disloyal has their rule book that the loyal has no idea about. In the rule book there’re rules like “Never own up”. “Never tell the truth”. “Deceive, Deceive, Deceive”. “Blame loyal for what I’ve done” etc. etc. It’s almost like a campaign book. The disloyal plans, manipulates and schemes to get what they want. They wear different clothing, but keep it hidden from the loyal. They tell lies about where they’re going and why they are going there.

Some call it a “fog”. Whereas I say it’s all done exceptionally consciously and with knowing intent.

Bob
 

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T,
That isn't quite the point. My W is also blunt. Generally speaking she does not play games. I define a "fitness test" as:
- W takes an unreasonable position
- I logically and thoroughly explain why it is not ok
- She attempts to "brute force" her way through the conversation

At this point who is "right" has nothing to do with it. Now we purely have a contest of wills.

I have no idea why she does this. From reading this is a fairly common female behavior. All I know is I have gotten really experienced at working through these without having to break a lot of emotional glass....


I don't have a play book, I thought you did Conrad. Bluntness is a problem with me. If I've got something in my mind my husband knows about it.

Bob, absolutely.
 

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T,
That isn't quite the point. My W is also blunt. Generally speaking she does not play games. I define a "fitness test" as:
- W takes an unreasonable position
- I logically and thoroughly explain why it is not ok
- She attempts to "brute force" her way through the conversation

At this point who is "right" has nothing to do with it. Now we purely have a contest of wills.

I have no idea why she does this. From reading this is a fairly common female behavior. All I know is I have gotten really experienced at working through these without having to break a lot of emotional glass....
MEM,

I've broken enough for both of us.

But, if I may, the focus you and the Wolf bring to this subject makes it clear what the new course need be.

And, the first 3 minutes of any flight are the roughest.

But, the results are there.

Count me among the converted.



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How much do you men understand women?

Sometimes we just yell out something which hurts but we don't mean it. I have done it.

Sometimes we are just acting childish and spoiled, and we want our men's attention and love. If we get it, we are silent. A hug, a kiss, a touch, fix all the hurt.

Sometimes we are being unreasonable, you just need to be firm, but don't call us down, don't yell at us, don't scream at us. We scream and yell because we are unreasonable, if you start screaming and yelling, you are not much better than us, that's called self-control, sorry, men, I know I am being unfair to require men to be better in this area, but if you want us women to respect you as men, you have to learn to master this skill.

When we are bothered by work or family stuff, you don't need to agree that we are right, but you also don't need to be defensive against us, that's just going to stop us from telling you what's bothering us!

Please always remember than we have periods, and we tend to be very moody before our periods, never pick up a fight during those days, because we are lost and confused and don't know why we feel so low those days. We don't like it either.
 

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There's a whole portion of the raging ongoing discussion that intrigues me. And, once I managed to attract the love of my life (it had been a long-term interest), the conflict began in earnest.

This was 4 plus years ago.

Just about everything was tried to "fix" things.

Logic

Emotional appeals - including pleading

Behavioral adjustments

More than a bit of anger

Yet, no matter what was tried, nothing "really worked". And, when I say nothing "worked", I'm talking about what could/would keep alive the spark in the relationship.

Periodically, I would hear about her dissatisfaction with our sex life. Of course, those who read and understand here know exactly what was going on. It was one long fitness test.

Endless compromises... endless deals. Endless negotiations.. endless dissatisfaction with results.

Most men dread "day 100" of any relationship, as this is when some say the "wheels start to come off". It's now easy to understand what was/is going on.

Perhaps subconsciously, the tests begin. Are you man enough to maintain my interest? Are you man enough to be a father to the children? Are you man enough to control yourself, hold a job, be faithful, and stand up to others.

If you are, then prove it by standing up to me!

If you want to be my warrior, then show me your grace under pressure.

And, if you fail to control yourself, prepare for further tests, as I bore into your psyche and see what your fiber truly is.

Becoming a "nice guy" in response to this pressure if the road to hell. Trying to be perfect. Trying not to annoy. Trying everything in your power... stretching yourself to stay out of trouble.

No one is perfect. You will be tempted to lie and conceal - even to badmouth your wife to others as the pressure rises, as the very essence of your manhood gets swept away.

And, in the process, your wife will lose interest in this doormat of a man she has in her house.

This board is littered with the stories of men who have failed these tests. I was definitely one of those.

What I can tell you - for a fact - is that it is never too late to start passing them. Miles of ground can be made up in a very short time. But, first, you simply must be right with yourself and be able to conquer your fear. Conquer your fear of losing. And, when I mean losing, I mean losing her.

By conquering your fear of losing her, you will win her.

And, if she still doesn't respond? What have you lost? You're merely prepared for the future.
Very well said and I am wishing every good man on this forum will read this many times and study the nuances and structures that this post outlines, indeed many many problems are really only one problem.

The "spark", the only way to have a spark is friction.

The friction between a man and woman, this is the spark of sexual attraction.

Any man or woman who never fight, never tangle, never conflict, there is nothing to ignite a spark.

But what can we say about "make up sex"? WHere is this roaring fire from, than a spark of conflict leading to it? ;)

And indeed, to begin passing fitness tests, this is not a months or weeks or even days process, it is right here, right now, the opportunity to turn around the resentment filled sexless relationship is immediate!

And exactly right, to not be afriad to "lose" your woman, when the good man realizes this in his actions, behavior, and most imprortant, his attitude, what this potential can lead to emotionally and sexually between him and his woman, I cannot type out on this family forum! ;)

Conflict and confrontation, to the good man, become a master of these.

THen fitness tests, they are not longer any dreaded stumbling blocks, they then are the opportunities and gateways to unleashing passion and sexual experiences between the good man and woman unbelievable, sensual erotic dark and explosive!

MEM,

I've broken enough for both of us.

But, if I may, the focus you and the Wolf bring to this subject makes it clear what the new course need be.

And, the first 3 minutes of any flight are the roughest.

But, the results are there.

Count me among the converted.
This is heartening.

The results are there, absolutely.

Once the man sees from his woman this cause and effect, there is nothing more needing to be said, as experiential is the only way to unerstand these things, logically speaking they are simply not going to fit. :)

All good men reading this forum, I can not say this enough, learn not only to embrace conflict, but become a master of confrontation.

A fitness test, it is not a logic test, it is attitude test.

A woman, she will respect the man that is comfortable with himself, with such a man, indeed his woman is secure and able to lower her defenses.

Imagine the kind of actions and behavior of a man, that allow this in his woman, and make these actions and behavior the reality.

Confident, calm, firm, humorous, in control of himself and the situation.


Conrad, you are sharing much that many other good men will benefit to see and understand for themselves. Thank you.
 

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So do we believe these tests are done consciously or subconsciously?

Is an Emotional Affair itself a test? Or is this usually the result of too many previously failed tests?
 

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So do we believe these tests are done consciously or subconsciously?

Is an Emotional Affair itself a test? Or is this usually the result of too many previously failed tests?
I think they are both.

With regard to an EA, I think you are correct with your latter point. It can be the result of consistently failing tests.
 

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They are definitely both.

With my wife, only in recent years have I got her to willingly admit a time or two openly that she will do or say deliberately something on purpose to push my button, especially if I am making her feel that I am too passive or uninterested in her (sexually/emotionally).

Otherwise, mostly the fitness tests, as I understand them, they are done from a woman more of habit or intuative, and not from logic.

So for the good man, I will sum up what I understand these fitness test to be, just this:

That a woman, she is loving (needing) to see her man demonstrate himself.

If she is not seeing him demonstrate himself from his own accord, then she WILL create an opportunity for him to show his mettle.

These opportunities for her man to shine, is the fitness test. ;)


An EA, this is not merely a test.

An EA, this is a woman already moving on to another man meeting her needs, her emotional connection.

A woman, she is not going to be emotionally connected to more than one man at a time, this will be the man that not only is passing her tests, but showing her interest and giving her emotional/sexual fulfillment.
 
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