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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Finally read NMMNG

Okay so I comment a bunch on other stories but never talk too much about my own. I am in a VERY sexless marriage and have done the dead twice....in 2012. I've tried pretty much everything but nothing changes.

I hate reading. HATE IT. Just not for me. I do it at work all day so it's not very relaxing in my down time. But I actually read NMMNG finally. Reason why I'm posting is because I don't know what to make of it.

I was taken aback at how accurate it was about some of it's diagnosis about people like me. I was raised by a strong single mother in humble circumstances. I had a bizarre early sex life mainly due to my involvement in sports constantly and my very strict mother. So basically I didnt have one despite having "girlfreinds".

I dont know if I have any compulsions...but I could definitely seeing them develop given my situation with marriage intimacy.

I see myself as a strong, confident, leader. The head of my family and household. But despite my love for sports, beer and most things man...I don't really hang out with guys. It just seems weird to me. I never really realized how this was a strange way to be until I read it in NMMNG.

The part about fear and shame really shook me. I didn't really agree with it pertaining to me until I really took a look at myself. I am NOT open about my desires with my wife. She is very conservative in the bedroom and I just repressed my desires after a while. It's driving me a little crazy. She had mentioned a few years ago that my "freakiness" was a problem for. So I just burried it.

I'm wondering if some more of the info in their pertains to me. I don't know how to move forward though now that I've come to some of these realizations. I'm sick of discussing intimacy with my wife. She's sick of me bringing it up. So I don't. I have no one to turn to and feel helpless to move forward. Our marriage is safe for now, but the way we're going is like driving at high speed down the highway in a snowstorm without a seatbelt. We're going to crash eventually and it's going to end badly.

I can see it but don't know how to move it forward. I also don't do a lot of my hobbies anymore. I can see it in her eyes that I turn her off by lack of physical activity. She married an athlete not the fat phock I am now. But some days no amount of painkillers can stop my knee pain...so I just veg and do nothing. I'm rambling now...but back on topic.

What did you guys do to implement any changes as a result of what you found in this book? I should also mention that I have also been cheated on in a previous relationship. It was only university back then but it was heading towards marriage (for my part). Am I just too F'ed up to have what most dudes do? A woman who craves their schlong? (Yes I'm diffusing with some crass humour).

I should also note that me being the closet intellectual that I am I found some of MMSL a bit crazy.
 

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I am in a VERY sexless marriage and have done the dead twice....in 2012
Very interesting Freudian slip as you probably meant to say deed, right?
MMSL is not the bible, but it sure rings true in a lot of places. I just took some basic steps with the MAP - exercise everyday, did some other things to get healthy, started projects I had put off, etc. Didn't accept the status quo, didn't fight about it, just refused to engage in some of the behaviors that relinquished my control in some areas. I couldn't believe the results in her approach to me, but it was definitely working.
 

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I think you turn this around but it's going to be a long hard road. I think somewhere a long the way your wife de-prioritized you and then she didn't recognize the man you had become. And she wasn't sexually attracted to that man. You have some insight now. I would encourage to keep reading. 5 love languages, Love Busters, His and Her Needs, The Way of the Superior Man, and maybe some Calle Zorro books. Knowledge is power. And you have to become quite empowered to get out of this situation. Also, when you communicate with your wife try to be open and understanding and objective.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Good advice. I will get my hands on the other reading material.

I just can't help but feel a little "soft" doing this stuff...ya know what I mean?
 

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Good advice. I will get my hands on the other reading material.

I just can't help but feel a little "soft" doing this stuff...ya know what I mean?
Man I know exactly what you mean. You were an athlete and you probably are quite confident as a man. The problems you've had you've solved them physically or mentally. Emotional vulnerability can be seen as a weakness often times and as something as a distraction. Now you have to understand your wifes emotions. And that means a deep understanding of your own. You have to be "sensitive" to an extent but still be a confident and dominant man. I think you just have to think of it as enhancing you. Be clear and open about how you feel, even to yourself. But you need to confidence so that you know that even if you are open emotionally, you will not let anyone thoughtlessness hurt you. I'm all for a man keeping passion and romance in a relationship. It's one my biggest fears, if I marry.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Man I know exactly what you mean. You were an athlete and you probably are quite confident as a man. The problems you've had you've solved them physically or mentally. Emotional vulnerability can be seen as a weakness often times and as something as a distraction. Now you have to understand your wifes emotions. And that means a deep understanding of your own. You have to be "sensitive" to an extent but still be a confident and dominant man. I think you just have to think of it as enhancing you. Be clear and open about how you feel, even to yourself. But you need to confidence so that you know that even if you are open emotionally, you will not let anyone thoughtlessness hurt you. I'm all for a man keeping passion and romance in a relationship. It's one my biggest fears, if I marry.
You nailed it. I find myself ill-equipped and out of my realm dealing with these issues. I also feel sort of like a cry baby if that makes any sense since she has repeatedly refused to engage in meaningful dialogue. I'll put the suggested paths to improvement in motion and see how things shake out.
 

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yes, the "being sensitive" part of it was (is lol) hard for me too.
never been one to wear my emotions on my sleeve, good or bad.
if i had problems, i just dealt with them.
the exercise for me was a big help.
especially since the wifey seemed weirdly aware that i was doing it for me, not for her.
the fixing stuff around the house is a big help.
i have always been handy, but now i start a project and finish it. once again, to give MYSELF an accomplishment to be proud of, instead of garnering my wifes approval and praise.
The BIG thing with me was the "fitness tests". my wife was CONSTANTLY doing that to me.
after i read the book, i basically shut it down. as in over. no mas.
and it worked. oh, the first few times she was like "WTF" and tried the same old same old, but after that didnt work she finally got it thru her head. and you know what? i feel like she actually RESPECTS me as her husband and the man of the house.
as another poster said, no its not the bible. but it is a VERY helpful tool that can be tweaked for your own situation.
my sex situation was nowhere neeeeeear as "bad" as yours. implementing the MAP and basically quitting taking the ridiculous sh!t my wife was pulling on me day in and day out has certainly increased the frequency and quality. thats for sure.
 

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FWIW, my two takeaways from MMSL:

1. The MAP is a lifestyle, not just a series of steps. I'll be doing the MAP until the day I die.

2. Courtship is a lifestyle, too. I can't afford to suffer the consequences of complacency again.
 

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She is very conservative in the bedroom and I just repressed my desires after a while. It's driving me a little crazy. She had mentioned a few years ago that my "freakiness" was a problem for. So I just burried it.

I'm sick of discussing intimacy with my wife. She's sick of me bringing it up. So I don't.

don't know how to move it forward
I haven't read the book, but I can say that emotional intimacy requires verbal interaction and "repressing", "burying", and being "sick of discussing" is not going to move things forward.

For a number of reasons, I had fallen into the trap you describe but today I have a new strategy. For starters, I let my wife own her problems. If she has a problem with my needs and desires and expectations, I'll be happy to make an appointment, drive her over to counseling, wait for her, sit with her or whatever she needs to support her while we work through her problems.

Likewise with her being sick of my bringing up intimacy. I'm sorry for her, but too bad. She can do what I ask or she can talk about it or she/we can go to counseling. Last time we went down the talking path, I expressed to her I was A-OK with the concept of "not doing something our partner wants because we don't want to/don't feel like it" as a basis for our relationship. I got up out of bed, went downstairs and opened myself a beer and was almost overjoyed with all the thoughts of all the stuff I wasn't going to have to do any more because I didn't want to. However, that joy was short lived because I never heard "I don't want to" since then.
 

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I expressed to her I was A-OK with the concept of "not doing something our partner wants because we don't want to/don't feel like it" as a basis for our relationship. I got up out of bed, opened myself a beer and was almost overjoyed with all the thought of all the stuff I wasn't going to have to do any more because I didn't want to. However, that joy was short lived because I never heard "I don't want to" since then.
:smthumbup:
"almost overjoyed with the thought" man that is classic
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Yup. It's got to be about communicating but doing it the right way. I've got to stop getting so frustrated when the subject eventually does arise and just be cool and calm about it.

As suggested I'll make it a lifestyle change instead of a means to an end.
 

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And if your anything like me you won't be comfortable with "needing" anything from your wife. Pay attention to the language that allows you to maintain your masculine image--"that's not working for me" is better than "I feel" or "I need". "I demand" is also not worth a s**t by the way.
 

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Yup. It's got to be about communicating but doing it the right way. I've got to stop getting so frustrated when the subject eventually does arise and just be cool and calm about it.
While communicating is good, don't mistake more with better. Some women don't find it attractive when a man constantly brings up these relationship issues for deep talks. Occasionally is fine, but too much comes across as whining and soft. So carefully manage when you raise things.

As suggested I'll make it a lifestyle change instead of a means to an end.
A couple things that worked for me:

1. Quit coming across as indecisive. I was often very truthful about not caring where we went to dinner, for example. She responded much better when I made some of thsoe decisions (with her input), rather then merely saying I don't care.

2. Tackle projects around the house. Doing stuff, particularly when I get out the tools, really does it for my wife.

3. Doing stuff for myself. Whether a hobby or exercise or whatever. Being just a tiny bit more selfish. I reached a milestone at work awhile back and got to chose a small gift. The old me would have selected something that was useful for both of us. This time, I got something just for me. By showing that you have value and value yourself, the time you do spend helping her is more likely to be appreciated.

4. With respect to to the knee, start swimming. Allows you to exercise with much less stress on the joints.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
While communicating is good, don't mistake more with better. Some women don't find it attractive when a man constantly brings up these relationship issues for deep talks. Occasionally is fine, but too much comes across as whining and soft. So carefully manage when you raise things.



A couple things that worked for me:

1. Quit coming across as indecisive. I was often very truthful about not caring where we went to dinner, for example. She responded much better when I made some of thsoe decisions (with her input), rather then merely saying I don't care.

Wow. I find myself saying "I don't care, it's up to you" multiple times per week.
2. Tackle projects around the house. Doing stuff, particularly when I get out the tools, really does it for my wife.

I'm about as handy as a second butt hole but I have loads of tools I buy when I find a good sale and I do occassionally break them out. I'll step this up.
3. Doing stuff for myself. Whether a hobby or exercise or whatever. Being just a tiny bit more selfish. I reached a milestone at work awhile back and got to chose a small gift. The old me would have selected something that was useful for both of us. This time, I got something just for me. By showing that you have value and value yourself, the time you do spend helping her is more likely to be appreciated.

Ughh. I reached my 10 yr milestone last year and chose something practical for a family outing instead of the watch. Stupid me.
4. With respect to to the knee, start swimming. Allows you to exercise with much less stress on the joints.

I don't swim. I think a lot of my knee pain can be resolved by dropping this belly fat. So I'll do some walking/running intervals on my treadmill. About time I get some use out of that monstrosity.
Its amazing some of the little mistakes you make that you never realize you're making.
 

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Its amazing some of the little mistakes you make that you never realize you're making.
Absolutely. The difficult part can be not seeing how these well-intentioned actions are actually hurting your relationship. As I read MMSL, it was like being hit across the face with a 2X4. I was doing a ton of little things that not conducive to being the man I wanted to be, which led to me being less attractive. Fixing those things really helped.

As far as fixing stuff, I am no great handy man. You won't see me gut a bathroom or install a new kitchen. But if you start small, you will gain more confidence. Hang some pictures and tighten the cabinet doors. Replace the lighbulbs in your car. Take out a bush in the front yard. After awhile, I found myself installing light fixtures and replacing the faucets. Nothing huge but stuff that showed me taking care of our home.

That work thing is one where you should have gotten something for yourself. That was a reward for something you did and you deserved it. I know that I do lots of things as a team with my wife. But we each also have our own individual things we do. In this case, work is one of my individual things and I deserved the prize, if you will, for what I did.

As you work on this, concentrate on balance on both sides, particularly in the beginning. It can be easy to become too selfish, so take a bit of time and think through what you are doing and why. Remember it is about valuing yourself as a man and establishing boundaries so that others respect that value.
 

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The indecisive thing is HUGE.

My husband makes all the big decisions and it turns me on.
We needed a new fridge and a new car and he didnt even ask me what i wanted; he just came home with the new car and handed me the keys and the new fridge came shortly there after. I had no clue he was going out to buy either of those things.

He did, however, pick out exactly what i would have wanted bc he listens to what i like.

5 years ago i would have thought i would hate having a husband that does that. Its weird but it works. Turns me on like crazy
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Ok...uh this is embarassing but I used the wrong acronym. I didnt read MMSL yet. I read NMMNG. Damn it. Sorry all. I will change thread title.

As far as making the major decisions...that's all me. Last year I decided she needed a car. After a short discussion about it, I went to the dealership, did the negotiations and bam she picked up her car the next week. This year was my turn and I did the same thing and now I have my new ride.

My indecisiveness is indifference. When she asks me what I want to do for supper or something and I don't care I just say "it's up to you". But I find myself saying it far too often lately. Major decisions...I'm still the head honcho.
 

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The indecisive thing is HUGE.

My husband makes all the big decisions and it turns me on.
We needed a new fridge and a new car and he didnt even ask me what i wanted; he just came home with the new car and handed me the keys and the new fridge came shortly there after. I had no clue he was going out to buy either of those things.

He did, however, pick out exactly what i would have wanted bc he listens to what i like.

5 years ago i would have thought i would hate having a husband that does that. Its weird but it works. Turns me on like crazy
For me at least, I was not always being indecisive. Many times, I just did not care and I thought that letting her choose would be nice. But that was not the message I was sending.

It is a good reminder to not assume that what you mean is how the other person is interpretting it.
 

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Ok...uh this is embarassing but I used the wrong acronym. I didnt read MMSL yet. I read NMMNG. Damn it. Sorry all. I will change thread title.

As far as making the major decisions...that's all me. Last year I decided she needed a car. After a short discussion about it, I went to the dealership, did the negotiations and bam she picked up her car the next week. This year was my turn and I did the same thing and now I have my new ride.

My indecisiveness is indifference. When she asks me what I want to do for supper or something and I don't care I just say "it's up to you". But I find myself saying it far too often lately. Major decisions...I'm still the head honcho.
That's good in that it will be easier for you to do. The bad part is that those small decisions come up far more frequently, so you will need to remember to act.

There is actually a lot of overalp in NMMNG and MMSL. Both are really about you working on being the type of man you want to be, but using different language. I think it is good to read both of them.

I will also add that what is taught will not work for everyone in every relationship. Really pay attention to your wife as you consider how to impliment your changes.
 
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