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Re: Fiancées tattoo.

Eh, why wait? You said she has a business and is financially secure. If she can afford to treat her friends at the bars, I'm sure she can afford to move in to a rental.
So she can keep that party going for the rest of the summer...:wink2:
 

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Re: Fiancées tattoo.

So she can keep that party going for the rest of the summer...:wink2:
You have given me some good advice during this thread and I am grateful to you.When I woke up this morning I Realised that nothing had changed and I was fooling myself yesterday and trying to make excuses for her (and my) behaviour.I think she needs to start caring for the boy more than she has been.One point I will make is the reason her parents look after him so much is that her three sisters are employed by her and she is very flexible with them.I am starting to make a list of things we need to be doing if we are going to continue,eg partying stops now,which it has anyway.I am considering showing her the texts from her friend offering to come over to my house because that will probably get her and maybe more of them out of the picture Again thank you for your advise.
 

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Re: Fiancées tattoo.

I am late to the game here, and I wanted to respond to some other comments from the great posters here and add my two cents, but I wanted to wait until the end. BUT this one I can't let go.

She did TWO things - 1) convinced you to make HER choice and not go with your gut or intuition or desire or even compromise (you said she "insisted") and then blamed you when she didn't like it, and 2) she did a stupid thing like get a buzz cut and then lie to people and say you made her do it.

This woman does not accept the responsibility of making her own choices and does not accept the consequences of them.
Believe me that is only a fraction of the things I let her away with.She invited relations to stay in my house during a family wedding without asking me first.The first I knew about it was when the extra beds she bought were been delivered,but at least she paid for them.I am making a list of things I let her away with and I can't believe how ###%^ stupid I have been.Thank you for your comments.
 

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Re: Fiancées tattoo.

I am engaged to be married next October,my fiancée is 32 and has a seven year old son from a previous relationship.When we started being exclusive I made a point of saying tattoos were a deal breaker
If you don't respect yourself at this point, you'll never get off your knees.
 

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Re: Fiancées tattoo.

That's exactly what I am afraid of.By the way she also had a"deal breaker"hers was if I ever made a comment about raising another mans child.I have never and would never say a word about that,I love her son like my own and it is because of him that I am looking for advice rather than just calling off the whole wedding.
Yes, but I think that is part of it.

She isn't really in a peer-relationship with you. You're a roommate with benefits (sex, childminder, proxy dad), her real relationship is as a mum, and with "her friends". You are ... convenient.
 

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Re: Fiancées tattoo.

If the subject matter of "deal breakers" were sincerely discussed and clearly understood by her prior to the exclusivity of the relationship, then this would be more than just a blatant disregard for your wishes!

To wit, you are wholeheartedly justified in your actions! By getting that tattoo, she is boldly and knowingly placing her selfish wishes ahead of your impending long-term relationship with her! This is simply referred to as a "broken promise" and is, in effect, nothing more than "a lie!"

I say that you should continue to stick by your guns as well as your spoken word!

Posted via Mobile Device
 

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Re: Fiancées tattoo.

You have given me some good advice during this thread and I am grateful to you.When I woke up this morning I Realised that nothing had changed and I was fooling myself yesterday and trying to make excuses for her (and my) behaviour.I think she needs to start caring for the boy more than she has been.One point I will make is the reason her parents look after him so much is that her three sisters are employed by her and she is very flexible with them.I am starting to make a list of things we need to be doing if we are going to continue,eg partying stops now,which it has anyway.I am considering showing her the texts from her friend offering to come over to my house because that will probably get her and maybe more of them out of the picture Again thank you for your advise.
Regardless of how things work out between you two, you probably should show her the texts. I'd want to know who my friends were and who were just circling vultures.

And, yes, you should talk to her about actually raising her son instead of pawning him off on her family, whatever the reason they put up with it. So what if she is flexible with her sisters schedules? That still doesn't make her behavior ok. It's just another excuse for her.

You may also want to think about having a few other conversations with her.

Have you talked about children? Doe she want more? Do you? If so, how will those children be raised? By you and her or by her parents and siblings?

Have you discussed boundaries? Acceptable behavior in marriage?

Have you discussed where you will live, life goals, etc?

Have you talked about religion and what role, if any, it will play in your lives and in rearing children?

Have you discussed who will pay the bills and how? Joint account? Separate accounts with a joint account to pay household expenses? Just separate accounts with each of you paying certain bills?

Have you considered going to pre-marital counseling?

My faith offers/requires 6 months of pre-marital counseling. There is a reason for that. It's astounding how many couples don't hash out the details, think behaviors will change post marriage, etc., only to have serious problems later.

If you aren't people of any faith, there are secular counselors available to do the same thing.

Get the details hashed out. Make sure you're on the same page, for real. Action backing up words. And make sure you're as compatible as you think you are.

Marriage is supposed to be for life, yes? The rest of your life is a very long and very painful time when you're hitched to "almost right" and it's flat out Hell when hitched to "totally wrong".





I think this is the best piece of advice I've got yet.I am going to put this to her tomorrow.I am starting to worry about the effect this is having on the boy because according to my fiancées sister the atmosphere at her parents house is bad with her getting it from all sides.It turns out her Dad just thought it was pre wedding jitters from me and knew nothing about our agreement about no tattoos.Her mother apparently tore her Dad a new one for interfering and my fiancée insists she never asked him to.Her mother is adamant that after our original wedding date my fiancée is moving out with the boy and she will only babysit on occasion.
So what will you do if Grandma cools down and things go back to status quo? Would that be a dealbreaker for you?

Frankly, were I a man and selecting a life mate and mother to my future child(ren), I'd be highly concerned.

If her child was your bio child, would you be ok with her leaving him with her parents to go out socializing with friends/having drinks or so that she could spend the night with a lover?
 

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Re: Fiancées tattoo.

OP,
This woman is immature. She is irresponsible. She is spoiled. She is selfish. She believes she must "buy" friends so she is very insecure and unsure of herself. She is a child. However, she has one redeeming quality that supersedes all of that, she is smoking hot.

I believe you are attempting cognition with the wrong head.
 

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Re: Fiancées tattoo.

I'm totally with @NoChoice . There are way too many red flags that reveal she is not wife material. It's obvious that OP is blinded to the facts by her "hotness." His girl is easily influenced by her friends. Getting a tattoo because her friend's dad past away? The crazy haircut after you strongly objected. To me these are deal breakers. Can you imagine if you were married, what kind of $hit test she's going to pull?
@MJJEAN made some very good suggestions throughout this thread. If you followed them, there's a better chance of having a successful relationship. I'm not convinced that she's ready to be a wife & mother or that you're ready to be stepdad.

There's a big difference between spending some pleasant afternoons with a single mom and her kid and actually being a stepdad to said kid. Have you discussed having your own kids with her? Marriage is very hard work, throw in the step kid(s) and it's that much tougher.
 

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Re: Fiancées tattoo.

I haven't spoken to my fiancée today yet but I have been ringing my relatives to tell them the wedding is off.My elder brother called me a stupid #%#%# and hung up!
However he rung back when he cooled down and we had a long talk.He is my only sibling and is sixteen years older than me.He had left home when I was still a baby,got married at eighteen and is still thinks his wife is the hottest girl on the planet.We were never really close but when I was younger I was working in the UK and stayed with him and his family for three months.His son is less than three years younger than me.He said exactly what some of the people on this platform said that my fiancée (he has never met her)was only a mother in name and neither of us have a clue what married life would be like.He wasn't as polite as that but you get the gist of it.
He did make a suggestion though and I would like some other people's opinion before putting it to my fiancée.He said for us to take two weeks holiday with the boy and just act like a normal family,go to parks or shows but no babysitters and no drinking.He then suggested not living together but have a room for the boy in my house so that if fiancée stayed over he would come as well and slowly we would figure out if we should be together.
 

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Re: Fiancées tattoo.

married at eighteen and is still thinks his wife is the hottest girl on the planet.
I think this is something the fine members of TAM should decide on >:)

He did make a suggestion though and I would like some other people's opinion before putting it to my fiancée.He said for us to take two weeks holiday with the boy and just act like a normal family,go to parks or shows but no babysitters and no drinking.He then suggested not living together but have a room for the boy in my house so that if fiancée stayed over he would come as well and slowly we would figure out if we should be together.
I do think this is a good suggestion, a good starting point. Ultimately though, as @MJJEAN has stated so well, your fiancee needs to show that she can act like an adult/mother on her own, without intervention from her family or yourself. The first step of course, would be for her to move out of her family's house and get an apt on her own.
 

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Re: Fiancées tattoo.

I think your brother's advice about the holiday is good. Two weeks, non-stop, as @MJJEAN says, 24/7, even if not 365, but 14 days with the child would demonstrate the response to waking up in the middle of the night or hoping for a longer nap, or dirty nappies, whatever you might encounter.

But I honestly have to say . . . I will be surprised if this person grows up. I dated someone who sounds like your fiancee, and he was heavily dependent upon his mother.

While I think all the things you're proposing, and addressing everything on MJJEAN's list is important, honestly, it sounds as if her mother and father were helping her with child care while she is working, perhaps a lot, and perhaps feels she needs her nights out, but it seems to have evolved to a place where she just leaves the childcare up to her Mum and Dad, just out of habit. She lives with them . . . it sounds like you would be replacing her parents as the person who gives her structure and direction (and gives that to the child as well). The issue of breaking the agreement about the tattoo may be an issue of her need for an education in what agreeing to something together means, and the fact that it is binding, or it may be that she just doesn't care. You have to get to the bottom of which it is. She may see you as a leader now and want to respond to that, but you need time, before you marry, to be sure that's the case and that she won't rebel later on.

I guess what I'm saying is, you won't just be Dad to the child. You mentioned that the girlfriend who was insisting that your fiancee get the tattoo goes through a new guy every month, and it is easy to see why . . . when boundaries and agreements aren't honored, and your partner's preferences, which are already acknowledged and agreed to, are ignored, relationships suffer. This woman friend of your fiancee seems to think the world revolves around her, and your fiancee DOES need a new set of friends.

Ultimately, though, I agree with @jsmart and believe she is not ready to be a wife and mother. Either it is a matter of educating her in healthy relationships or she is just too young emotionally. Either way, she will learn something from this relationship, and so will you (and hope you realize how important and significant and really good FOR you that you are learning to refuse to compromise on agreements and boundaries, or that the way your fiancee sets out to "renegotiate" them is not in a bar with your partner making a public announcement in front of friends to set you off, as it should, and you need not back down), and therefore if it ends, so it has not been a total waste.
 

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Re: Fiancées tattoo.

How about she moves into her own place and once she and her boy have settled in, and she's been responsible for the majority of his care, you then take two weeks to spend as a potential family? If that goes well, you can come back and set the boy up a room at your place so that he can visit when his mother does. Then, if it's really working, you can think of moving forward.
 

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Re: Fiancées tattoo.

@Andy1001:

There is not anything I can say about your fiance that has not already been said by other posters. Immature, prideful, defiant, and untrustworthy all come to mind. @NoChoice also had a great point in asking you which head you were using to think. She has shown you who she is, so it is time to believe her. However, that point has been hammered home multiple times. Mine echoing that will be a drop in a sea of voices.

I will say this: Her exceptional beauty, plus her need for external validation, combined with her unwillingness to accept responsibility for her choices, as well as her need to blame you, is the surest recipe for a cheating spouse as you will find anywhere. Proceed at your own peril

Here is where I want to hone in on you. Yes, you.

I went to the coffee shop but waited outside and when my fiancée arrived I called her over and she got into my car.She immediately started talking but I told her to shut up.
Shut up? Really? Do you see you are already falling into the trap of treating her like a subordinate, or someone less than you? I totally get where you are coming from, but there is NO ROOM for treating a significant other as such.

I then gave it to her with both barrels,I had actually made a list of times when she had tried to belittle me and also all the crap I put up with from her friends.She just kept nodding and saying I'm sorry and I didn't realise I was doing it.
Why were you shouting? When you show emotion that way, it is the opposite of trust. Additionally, your point is often lost (luckily not in this case) in the delivery. This, combined with the fact that you are choosing a bride with the wrong head, tells me she is not the only one who needs to grow up some. The only thing that makes me thing you two don't deserve each other is the fact that you are starting to take her off of her pedestal.

She said she is prepared to do anything to get us back together.I am suspicious by nature and I said I need to think about this.We have arranged to talk again tomorrow.But I'm wondering if it is just her way of going back to square one.She was genuinely upset though and has sworn none of her friends will ever know anything about our private life again.
Andy, I want you to Google the Karpman Drama Triangle. After reading it, come back here and tell us what consistencies you see between your relationship and Karpman's model.
 

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Re: Fiancées tattoo.

See, the kid is the hardest part. Trust me, it is not going to be easy. Holidays, extra rooms etc etc are going to make it harder for you to make a decision. I know, I went through it myself. You need to sit down and decide if this is REALLY what YOU want to do. Acting like everything is normal, giving the kid a room, acting even moire like a father and going on a special holiday is going to traumatize him if you leave., Also, it adds a guilt burden onto you and may lead to a hasty decision.

You need to sit down and honestly decide if this is what you really want.
 

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Re: Fiancées tattoo.

I would like some other people's opinion before putting it to my fiancée.He said for us to take two weeks holiday with the boy and just act like a normal family,go to parks or shows but no babysitters and no drinking.He then suggested not living together but have a room for the boy in my house so that if fiancée stayed over he would come as well and slowly we would figure out if we should be together.
If you do something like that, it will need to be after she has lived on her own for 6 + months and proven that she knows how to be a proper mother and girlfriend.

I think that that her staying over with her son sends a wrong message to the son. If you break up, the poor boy has had a new dad in his life only to lose him (again.) In addition, if she starts staying over, it will be harder to break up.
 

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Re: Fiancées tattoo.

See, the kid is the hardest part. Trust me, it is not going to be easy. Holidays, extra rooms etc etc are going to make it harder for you to make a decision. I know, I went through it myself. You need to sit down and decide if this is REALLY what YOU want to do. Acting like everything is normal, giving the kid a room, acting even moire like a father and going on a special holiday is going to traumatize him if you leave., Also, it adds a guilt burden onto you and may lead to a hasty decision.

You need to sit down and honestly decide if this is what you really want.
QFT! My h couldn't make the break with OW in large part because he had bonded with her child. He would complain that the OW wouldn't back him up and would undermine his attempts to put discipline and structure in the kid's life, and given my h's mental and psychological development (or underdevelopment) and his need to be a KISA, he felt he had to stay to protect the kid from the alcoholic mother/OW.

There's already dysfunction here, Andy. When you become the dad, the dysfunction can only potentially worsen, but there's very little good you can do to make it better once you're hitched and she's comfortable with the status quo. Your heart will be broken, the kid's heart will be broken, but mom could just flit on as usual.
 

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Re: Fiancées tattoo.

.Thats my problem when I see things from afar I am sensible enough but once she is beside me common sense seems to leave.
Yes, isn't that the truth.

And THAT is what makes this so hard to resolve.

You do still love her.

Counseling at this point, before you even get married sounds stupid, but what else can you do to fix this situation?....other than to bail on the marriage. The wedding is on the horizon. Lots of pressure and push-back from everyone.

A really big decision.

I would tell her that you love her. You love her but you allow no one to bully you, no one to ride roughshod on your feelings.

A man's Pride is his most powerful trait. It can buttress him or destroy him. Yours seems appropriate. Keep it appropriate to the situation....as it is here.

Tell her that YOUR word is your bond. Tell her that HER word must be HER bond.

If Her Word is changeable then HER word is SOLVENT and it will dissolve the bond that will be your marriage.

Make sure your decision is not controlling in the negative sense, but rather in the shepherding or guiding sense.

I think it is. Be the adult here.
 
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