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Re: Fiancées tattoo.

It is a HUGE decision to raise another person's child and gender need not apply. It is a HUGE responsibility to enter a child's life, become a step or adoptive parent and treat the child as your own. I may have missed it, but I have no clue why you are saying "her." I may have missed the post, but the ones I see are specifically addressing another man's child not her.. Nope, doesn't matter if the missing parent is or is not in the picture, it is still a huge responsibility and decision to make. I was and I am GRATEFUL my wife was willing to help raise her step daughter before we were married. I hope to GOD she thought long and hard before entering the relationship with me. Nope, it doesn't make the child a pawn in any way. No one is being dragged through the halls of TAM.

Man this tattoo has people making weird analogies and writing fanciful stories.

It is a relevant issue as he can now see the level of repeated disrespect. She put her friends, pride and a tattoo over their own relationship and that of the child. Yes, it is highly relevant, people are putting it into perspective.
 

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Re: Fiancées tattoo.

Both of my sisters are on their second marriages. Both had kids from the first marriages. One was ready (both times), the other was not (both times). I still maintain that I truly do not think she was ready to marry either time, though she will celebrate her second anniversary in a couple months. Both of the new husbands willingly, and even enthusiastically, took on the position of step-dad.

So what's my point? Yes, Andy's fiancée has done a lot that has been detrimental to their relationship. However, I have a huge problem with anyone saying she should be grateful that he was willing to take on her and her son. The child should not be a pawn, and that's what such comments reduce him to. Andy has stated that he loves the boy, and would never make a comment about raising another man's child. I don't think it's fair to him, nor to the child, to make comments to that effect. How about we stick to the relevant issues... her disrespect... and leave the child out of the discussion.

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I stand by my comment she should be grateful - many young men are not mature enough or many dont have the desire to take on such a huge responsibility. Given that she found a good guy who loves her boy and is willing to be a good stepdad she should be grateful. I dont see that as being disrespectful as much as appreciating what you have.
 

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Re: Fiancées tattoo.

What are "all the other things that you backed down on" that made you now feel like a fool?

This is starting to reveal a pervasive pattern in her personality.

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Or his, depending.

Someone who frequently stomps his feet, crosses his arms, and says "you can't do that" is inviting just such a reaction. I don't yet know which scenario we're talking about here. Just put me on record as saying this sounds like only one side of a very interesting discussion.
 

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Re: Fiancées tattoo.

Welcome to TAM, where very few stories aren't one sided.

If the tattoo was replaced with abuse, stealing, neglect, drugs or other alleged higher priority boundary crossings, the tone would be completely different. Yet, this is usually how it goes. If it is divisive enough and unbalanced the OP tends to slowly be demonized. I mean NOW, he might be a foot stomping arm crossing "no you can't" person. Ignoring the two incidents he has related.
 

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Re: Fiancées tattoo.

Welcome to TAM, where very few stories aren't one sided.

If the tattoo was replaced with abuse, stealing, neglect, drugs or other alleged higher priority boundary crossings, the tone would be completely different. Yet, this is usually how it goes. If it is divisive enough and unbalanced the OP tends to slowly be demonized. I mean NOW, he might be a foot stomping arm crossing "no you can't" person. Ignoring the two incidents he has related.
Agreed. He might be but the OP didnt stomp his feet or hold his breath yet. She agreed to a boundary and then summarily decided to break that boundary. If anything she is behaving in a stomp my feet manner...his lunch today should be interesting..not sure how much he will get to eat.. and her friends getting involved is another warning sign..if the fiance was a grownup she'd be meeting him for lunch not sending her friend..it shows you this group loves drama with their c0cktails..

 

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Re: Fiancées tattoo.

Been there, OP. It sounds like she's one of those girls who's personality is an amalgamation of whatever toxic 'friends' opinions she's been misguided by lately. A tattoo for a friends Dad? WTF?

She's got to be well into her 20's. She won't grow up any time soon. I'd bail regardless.
For reals.
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Re: Fiancées tattoo.

However, I have a huge problem with anyone saying she should be grateful that he was willing to take on her and her son. The child should not be a pawn, and that's what such comments reduce him to. Andy has stated that he loves the boy, and would never make a comment about raising another man's child. I don't think it's fair to him, nor to the child, to make comments to that effect. How about we stick to the relevant issues... her disrespect... and leave the child out of the discussion.

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I'm the adult child of an extramarital affair. Raised from age 4 by a step dad. Both my oldest kids are from my first marriage and their father is not involved. Never even paid his child support. Since they were 6 and 1, my DH has raised them.

Now that you know where I am coming from, I have to disagree with your statements above.

The reality is, there are a lot of men who won't date women with children. There are a lot of men who are willing to date a woman with a child or two, but who want to make sure the father is involved because they don't want to be responsible for another man's seed. There aren't all that many men who are willing to be 100% responsible for raising another man's kids.

So, yes, she should be grateful she found someone willing to raise her kid with her. Sorry, but the truth is that having a pre-made family isn't something a lot of people are looking for in a mate. Especially if they are younger people without kids of their own.

And, IMO, failing to acknowledge and express gratitude to the step-father raising another man's kid as his own diminishes the wonderful thing he is doing and the sacrifices he makes.
 

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Re: Fiancées tattoo.

I'm the adult child of an extramarital affair. Raised from age 4 by a step dad. Both my oldest kids are from my first marriage and their father is not involved. Never even paid his child support. Since they were 6 and 1, my DH has raised them.

Now that you know where I am coming from, I have to disagree with your statements above.

The reality is, there are a lot of men who won't date women with children. There are a lot of men who are willing to date a woman with a child or two, but who want to make sure the father is involved because they don't want to be responsible for another man's seed. There aren't all that many men who are willing to be 100% responsible for raising another man's kids.

So, yes, she should be grateful she found someone willing to raise her kid with her. Sorry, but the truth is that having a pre-made family isn't something a lot of people are looking for in a mate. Especially if they are younger people without kids of their own.

And, IMO, failing to acknowledge and express gratitude to the step-father raising another man's kid as his own diminishes the wonderful thing he is doing and the sacrifices he makes.
QFT...I know women who are single moms (dads not involved heavily)..and one in my family stopped dating for awhile - one of her issues was that single men without kids dont understand that her priority is her child and that she is not available at the drop of a dime to go out or go on vacation....she was in her late 30s/early 40s at the time dating professional men her own age and they didn't get it or care to get it...im not bashing them but it is a fact...

when you date someone with kids you do enter into a more complicated world of exes, commitments, etc - its not as simple as two single people without kids dating..I'm not saying its bad but it is a fact of life when you date people with kids...
 

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Re: Fiancées tattoo.

Well this has been an eye opener of a day.It turns out I have some unlikely allies in her mother and young sister.Just before lunch I got a text from her sisters phone but it was from her mother.These are her exact words."Do not give her an inch,you have done so much for her and you get nothing in return".Well to say I was surprised is an understatement,I rung her sister and she told me that my fiancée was meeting me,which I had guessed,but that she was going to apologise to me for everything.She then said not to fall into her teary eyed trap and let her away with it.
I went to the coffee shop but waited outside and when my fiancée arrived I called her over and she got into my car.She immediately started talking but I told her to shut up.I then gave it to her with both barrels,I had actually made a list of times when she had tried to belittle me and also all the crap I put up with from her friends.She just kept nodding and saying I'm sorry and I didn't realise I was doing it.When I finally finished shouting I told her calmly that I had cancelled the reception but I think she knew.She asked me could she speak and I nodded.She told me that until the night her Father rang me her Mother didn't know we had fell out,her sister told her mother the full story and she was shocked.Her mother asked her was it all true and when she said it was her mother actually slapped her in the face.Her Mother then started crying and she said that was worse than been slapped.Since then her mother has told her that she is not looking after the boy at night and as far as she is concerned she is moving out of their house in October whether she gets married or not.My fiancée has always been the closest one in her family to her mother and she is really shocked that her mother didn't take her side.
She said she realises that she was completely in the wrong.
She said she is prepared to do anything to get us back together.
I am suspicious by nature and I said I need to think about this.We have arranged to talk again tomorrow.But I'm wondering if it is just her way of going back to square one.She was genuinely upset though and has sworn none of her friends will ever know anything about our private life again.
 

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Re: Fiancées tattoo.

when you date someone with kids you do enter into a more complicated world of exes, commitments, etc - its not as simple as two single people without kids dating..I'm not saying its bad but it is a fact of life when you date people with kids...
When I met DH we were both 24. We're just 3 months apart in age. We were worlds apart in lifestyle because I had two kids, friends who were married and also parents, etc. and he was childless with friends who were single and childless.

We discussed the situation and DH was well aware that my ex was NOT going to help with the kids in any way, financially or otherwise. He'd already thought about it and accepted that being with me would mean becoming an instant father.

His friends thought he was absolutely insane for dating and getting serious with a woman who had kids.

I think the hardest thing for him was not being able to just go do something at a moment's notice. He missed many social events because we couldn't get a sitter and the event wasn't child friendly. Missed many others because we got such short notice there wasn't time to gather up the kids, get everyone ready, get the kid gear packed and stowed in the car, let the dog out, and get there before it was damn near over.

He drifted away from most of his friends. He was too busy working and raising a family while they were footloose and fancy free. Now that the kids are older, he tried to reconnect. Unfortunately, they are now in the thick of raising younger kids and are too busy.

We won't even get into the stuff he wanted to buy, do, or see that we couldn't afford because kids are expensive lil critters. There was a lot that he wanted to do we could have done if it was just the two of us, but wasn't a great idea or too expensive to do with kids.

And, of course, kids are cute. We're programmed to love them and think they're adorable so that we don't kill em. This means that the person stepping in to raise someone else's kid is going to get attached. Eventually, they'll probably even love the kid(s). So, what then? What if it doesn't work out? Now they have an attachment to kids that they have no legal rights to should they split before marriage or get a divorce.

There really is a lot more to consider when dating someone with kids that isn't even on the radar when dating someone without kids.

Which kind of brings us back to the OP. It seems he and the boy get along wonderfully and care very much for each other. It also seems that the OP and the boy's mother are a bad match and wouldn't have a good marriage.

I agree with many others. She's not ready for a marriage or she's not compatible with the OP. Maybe both. So, OP, I also advise going through with ending the relationship.
 

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Re: Fiancées tattoo.

She didn't lose anybody.Her friends father died and she wants her and my fiancée to get tattoos.The tattoo is a six line verse about the size of a postcard and it will be impossible to miss.
The reasoning for this tattoo is seriously flawed. If her friends cat dies is your STB going to get a cat tat? One tat starts another and another.

You have your boundary. Stick to it. If you don't your STB will steamroll more tats and other nonsense.
 

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Re: Fiancées tattoo.

@Andy1001 - have you ever called her out on her behavior before, or is this the first time you truly put your foot down with her? Maybe this is the shock she needed (not just from you but also from her family) to wake her ass up and start acting more like an adult? Take some time, don't rush any decisions. If she is truly remorseful and you believe in t he relationship with her, there is no reason why things can't move forward, maybe at a slow place. I believe now she understands that this behavior won't be tolerated and she may be kept on a short leash if this happens again.
 

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Re: Fiancées tattoo.

Well this has been an eye opener of a day.It turns out I have some unlikely allies in her mother and young sister.Just before lunch I got a text from her sisters phone but it was from her mother.These are her exact words."Do not give her an inch,you have done so much for her and you get nothing in return".Well to say I was surprised is an understatement,I rung her sister and she told me that my fiancée was meeting me,which I had guessed,but that she was going to apologise to me for everything.She then said not to fall into her teary eyed trap and let her away with it.
I went to the coffee shop but waited outside and when my fiancée arrived I called her over and she got into my car.She immediately started talking but I told her to shut up.I then gave it to her with both barrels,I had actually made a list of times when she had tried to belittle me and also all the crap I put up with from her friends.She just kept nodding and saying I'm sorry and I didn't realise I was doing it.When I finally finished shouting I told her calmly that I had cancelled the reception but I think she knew.She asked me could she speak and I nodded.She told me that until the night her Father rang me her Mother didn't know we had fell out,her sister told her mother the full story and she was shocked.Her mother asked her was it all true and when she said it was her mother actually slapped her in the face.Her Mother then started crying and she said that was worse than been slapped.Since then her mother has told her that she is not looking after the boy at night and as far as she is concerned she is moving out of their house in October whether she gets married or not.My fiancée has always been the closest one in her family to her mother and she is really shocked that her mother didn't take her side.
She said she realises that she was completely in the wrong.
She said she is prepared to do anything to get us back together.
I am suspicious by nature and I said I need to think about this.We have arranged to talk again tomorrow.But I'm wondering if it is just her way of going back to square one.She was genuinely upset though and has sworn none of her friends will ever know anything about our private life again.
One year pre-marital counseling minimum... then think about planning for a wedding after that.
 

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Re: Fiancées tattoo.

Well, you call off the wedding , you two start dating again, go to pre-marital counseling and then you see if she is prepared to make real changes. Yes, this would include removing her toxic friends and drinking parties with the bad influences. Then you can make a final decision. Moving a wedding date is nothing compared to how bad it can be for you if you marry this woman in her current state.
 

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Re: Fiancées tattoo.

Well this has been an eye opener of a day.It turns out I have some unlikely allies in her mother and young sister.Just before lunch I got a text from her sisters phone but it was from her mother.These are her exact words."Do not give her an inch,you have done so much for her and you get nothing in return".Well to say I was surprised is an understatement,I rung her sister and she told me that my fiancée was meeting me,which I had guessed,but that she was going to apologise to me for everything.She then said not to fall into her teary eyed trap and let her away with it.
I went to the coffee shop but waited outside and when my fiancée arrived I called her over and she got into my car.She immediately started talking but I told her to shut up.I then gave it to her with both barrels,I had actually made a list of times when she had tried to belittle me and also all the crap I put up with from her friends.She just kept nodding and saying I'm sorry and I didn't realise I was doing it.When I finally finished shouting I told her calmly that I had cancelled the reception but I think she knew.She asked me could she speak and I nodded.She told me that until the night her Father rang me her Mother didn't know we had fell out,her sister told her mother the full story and she was shocked.Her mother asked her was it all true and when she said it was her mother actually slapped her in the face.Her Mother then started crying and she said that was worse than been slapped.Since then her mother has told her that she is not looking after the boy at night and as far as she is concerned she is moving out of their house in October whether she gets married or not.My fiancée has always been the closest one in her family to her mother and she is really shocked that her mother didn't take her side.
She said she realises that she was completely in the wrong.
She said she is prepared to do anything to get us back together.
I am suspicious by nature and I said I need to think about this.We have arranged to talk again tomorrow.But I'm wondering if it is just her way of going back to square one.She was genuinely upset though and has sworn none of her friends will ever know anything about our private life again.
Sounds to me like her family has long been sick of her shyte and were hoping you'd take her off their hands. Now that she's well on her way to destroying that dream, they let her have it.

She still sounds immature and not ready to be married.

If you really love her and want this to work, have you thought about postponing the wedding and requiring her to live on her own, solely responsible for her bills and her child, for 6+ months before rescheduling the wedding? Maybe she'd mature a bit if she had to do for herself and her child on her own.
 

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Re: Fiancées tattoo.

Sounds to me like her family has long been sick of her shyte and were hoping you'd take her off their hands. Now that she's well on her way to destroying that dream, they let her have it.

She still sounds immature and not ready to be married.

If you really love her and want this to work, have you thought about postponing the wedding and requiring her to live on her own, solely responsible for her bills and her child, for 6+ months before rescheduling the wedding? Maybe she'd mature a bit if she had to do for herself and her child on her own.
^^^^^excellent advise.
 

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Re: Fiancées tattoo.

@Andy1001 - have you ever called her out on her behavior before, or is this the first time you truly put your foot down with her? Maybe this is the shock she needed (not just from you but also from her family) to wake her ass up and start acting more like an adult? Take some time, don't rush any decisions. If she is truly remorseful and you believe in t he relationship with her, there is no reason why things can't move forward, maybe at a slow place. I believe now she understands that this behavior won't be tolerated and she may be kept on a short leash if this happens again.
We are together five years,if I told you how we met you would not believe it.Until last Sunday I have never called my fiancée out on her behaviour.We normally used to go out on our own or maybe bring the boy with us.Its since the wedding started getting closer that we have been in bars with her friends so often.By the way my fiancée is a soft touch when it comes to treating her friends,she is always the one who buys the tray of shots or jug of ****tails or if they are over at her or my house she will order Chinese food or pizza for everyone,as I said sh has a good business and it makes her a lot of money.I think some of them realise that when we are married her son will be living with us so the partying will be cut back.
 

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Re: Fiancées tattoo.

Sounds to me like her family has long been sick of her shyte and were hoping you'd take her off their hands. Now that she's well on her way to destroying that dream, they let her have it.
It does explain why Daddy was willing to pay to have the tattoo removed.

I say @Andy1001 use this to his advantage, get her parents to buy him all sorts of gifts just so he will take their daughter >:)
 

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Re: Fiancées tattoo.

It sounds like she at least reacts well to a scolding when she is in the wrong. And she is able to admit it. Lots of people aren't.
Now that you have stood up for yourself, continue to do so but be very careful to wield whatever power you have in the relationship very carefully. I would proceed very carefully and thoughtfully.

In my experience, I find it extremely difficult to cut a woman loose when I have deep feelings invested with them. That is really not a good thing when profound problems start cropping up and are looked past out of love. Remember that love can be a fleeting thing for some people.
And you are totally at a woman's mercy in a way, when it comes to changing their feelings about you.

I'm glad that you had the conversation with your fiancée, and hope you can figure out whether she is mature enough for marriage, and if you are truly compatible. Her friends would be of deep concern.

One thing is for sure, her mother seems to be a reasonable woman, able to see more than one perspective. That's a great thing.
Good luck
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Re: Fiancées tattoo.

We are together five years,if I told you how we met you would not believe it.Until last Sunday I have never called my fiancée out on her behaviour.We normally used to go out on our own or maybe bring the boy with us.Its since the wedding started getting closer that we have been in bars with her friends so often.By the way my fiancée is a soft touch when it comes to treating her friends,she is always the one who buys the tray of shots or jug of ****tails or if they are over at her or my house she will order Chinese food or pizza for everyone,as I said sh has a good business and it makes her a lot of money.I think some of them realise that when we are married her son will be living with us so the partying will be cut back.
She has a son, shouldn't her partying have been somewhat cut back as is, why should getting married make a difference :confused:
 
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