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Re: Fiancées tattoo.

Andy, there's more choices than working for peanuts and working for you. I think it might be helpful to let her sort out her own employment, away from you, so that the idea that you manipulate and control doesn't get rooted in her head. Sounds like she needs a bit of independence and something in her life that is not attached to you or her kids.

I know you want her to be SAHM, but that's not what she wants right now. And there is good reason for that. It's very easy to lose who you are as a SAHM. Besides, working doesn't have to mean 40+ a week. She could work part time while the baby is young and increase her hours as the kids become more independent.
 

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Discussion Starter #842
Re: Fiancées tattoo.

I am not overly familiar with your story, but I think it is great you want her to be a sahm.

If the issue is basically trust, what could you do to earn her trust? Have you asked her?
I'm not really sure at this stage.When I bought her health studio I paid her a lot more than it was worth but she returned the money.Maybe she wants us to be engaged again and I would have no problem with that.
 

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Discussion Starter #843
Re: Fiancées tattoo.

J turned to me and said she felt that I had manipulated things so that her friends and her family were out of her life


She does understand that the friends were toxic and her family, while not exactly toxic, were detrimental to your relationship. Right?
J always sees the best in people whereas I am more inclined to expect the worst and hope for the best.Whenever we talk about people in our past she never has a bad word to say about anyone,it's like when someone dies and everybody says nice things about them even if they were bastards.She has been talking all week about the fun her family have at Christmas and how her and her son will miss it.I suggested going to Orlando but she doesn't feel like flying and it is over twelve hundred miles from here so too far for driving.Anyway the crowds are huge at Christmas in Disney.
If she wants to visit her family at Christmas I have no problem with it but I'm not going with her,I don't forgive or forget that easily.
 

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Discussion Starter #844
Re: Fiancées tattoo.

Andy, there's more choices than working for peanuts and working for you. I think it might be helpful to let her sort out her own employment, away from you, so that the idea that you manipulate and control doesn't get rooted in her head. Sounds like she needs a bit of independence and something in her life that is not attached to you or her kids.

I know you want her to be SAHM, but that's not what she wants right now. And there is good reason for that. It's very easy to lose who you are as a SAHM. Besides, working doesn't have to mean 40+ a week. She could work part time while the baby is young and increase her hours as the kids become more independent.
We don't live in the city,we live in a medium sized town that has one health studio.Mine.My gf is trained at different aspects of keep fit,callisthenics etc.If she doesn't work for me she will have to commute and the wages are abysmal in this job.
I honestly don't see the sense in spending three hours a day traveling to and from work to earn less than you would pay for daycare.And that is a moot point anyway because I will hire a nanny if J wants me to.I offered her the managers job when I bought the place but she turned it down so I really don't know what else I can do.She will be here shortly so I think we need a chat about what she wants to do because all I'm hearing is what she doesn't want to do.
 

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Re: Fiancées tattoo.

We don't live in the city,we live in a medium sized town that has one health studio.Mine.My gf is trained at different aspects of keep fit,callisthenics etc.If she doesn't work for me she will have to commute and the wages are abysmal in this job.
I honestly don't see the sense in spending three hours a day traveling to and from work to earn less than you would pay for daycare.And that is a moot point anyway because I will hire a nanny if J wants me to.I offered her the managers job when I bought the place but she turned it down so I really don't know what else I can do.She will be here shortly so I think we need a chat about what she wants to do because all I'm hearing is what she doesn't want to do.
Sometimes it takes knowing what you don't want to find out what you do.

Has she thought about working as an in home trainer for women who aren't able to get to a gym? Has she tossed around the idea of going to or back to college for a related degree such as physical therapist or maybe for something entirely different?
 

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Re: Fiancées tattoo.

We don't live in the city,we live in a medium sized town that has one health studio.Mine.My gf is trained at different aspects of keep fit,callisthenics etc.If she doesn't work for me she will have to commute and the wages are abysmal in this job.
I honestly don't see the sense in spending three hours a day traveling to and from work to earn less than you would pay for daycare.And that is a moot point anyway because I will hire a nanny if J wants me to.I offered her the managers job when I bought the place but she turned it down so I really don't know what else I can do.She will be here shortly so I think we need a chat about what she wants to do because all I'm hearing is what she doesn't want to do.
you her boyfriend/husband or her manager ?
 

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Discussion Starter #847 (Edited)
Re: Fiancées tattoo.

you her boyfriend/husband or her manager ?
I was wondering if you would show up again.I hope your short term memory loss has improved and maybe you try and remember what you say to people before denying it.You told me you never had a dig at me but you called me a sucker,a numbskull and stupid.You are a lying bitter little man and if I get banned for calling you that then so be it.
 

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Re: Fiancées tattoo.

It's not bribery. They don't get the donation.

The clerks are not well paid where o live.

Adding more staff increases medical costs. Which we all pay.

Anyway, OP got it done, so your comments are moot.

Great job Andy.

Btw, if you get involved with someone who eventually does not want to live with you, you have no right to complain when suffering the consequences of your own deliberate choice.

Bribery doesn't actually have to be received by the individual in question. It could go to the institution which increases their comforts or toys, or even just to an organisation (eg charity) which they support. Bribery is an extra payment or gratuity rendered _for_the_purpose_ of getting desirable extra service or attention.

adding more staff does not always increase medical costs. If you're paying penal rates, or paying high level staff high wages to do low return work, then hiring extra staff actually _reduces_ the cost as well as the workload.

And I'm well aware of the "who _eventually_ does not want to live with you". I, like many other husbands and boyfriends, have become well aware of this which is why I keep promoting the things I do, that go against the natural programming that males get. That we're in some way expected to support females. Social this is still a massive expectation and natural selection process (females are still seen as an "award" or "success possession" (which is truly screwing up some of their personal values). But in the modern age in the West, wealthy females have massive advantage and privilege that many males just aren't realising (and gonads control their minds) and so the males are being totally taken advantage of, and not realising until , after supporting her and helping her develop and letting feminist values control his life, she walks out taking the majority of his life's (social, emotional, and financial) efforts with her. Society, of course, still being entrenched in the "males must support females" mentality saying the this is all his fault, and celebrating her choice and advancement...... so I speak up and remind people "he does not owe her anything" and that "she can walk out anytime she choses" taking at least half of his life with it - so don't hand that extra over, it's not going to be appreciated, and you're really not going to get recognition or appreciation for doing so.
 

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Re: Fiancées tattoo.

Again, I ask: why do some here think J is a keeper? She thinks and resents Andy for alienating her from her friends and family. That is a huge red flag.


Maybe because he did exactly that.

It's not a coincidence that the word "manipulated" keeps getting mentioned by J and by several posters.
 

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Discussion Starter #851 (Edited)
Re: Fiancées tattoo.

Maybe because he did exactly that.

It's not a coincidence that the word "manipulated" keeps getting mentioned by J and by several posters.
I've just logged back on and seen your post and I am very surprised at it. You were the first person to call J a keeper on my thread and I always valued your opinion.Please explain to me how I managed this feat of manipulation because I didn't consider myself to be a master of manipulation.Do you think I managed to get J pregnant by some feat of trickery or I convinced her mother to call my friend and business partner a freeloading queer and to throw her daughter and grandson out.Maybe I bribed her friends and her sisters not to have anything to do with her,or possibly convinced the bank to call in her loans.Also who are the "several" posters who mentioned manipulation,as far as I can recall only mjjean mentioned it and only in the context of letting J make up her own mind.I really would like your thoughts on this.
 

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Discussion Starter #852
Re: Fiancées tattoo.

The person who writes the guide to dealing with pregnant women and their emotions will make a fortune.
I was dreading J coming over today and really began to wonder if we would work out.She came in and immediately threw her arms around me,started crying and apologised for what she said on Friday at the counselling session.She said her head is all over the place and knows I didn't do anything to try to trick her.
Anyway,the makeup sex was great.
On a different note she has put on five pounds since she got pregnant and I have lost twelve,wtf does this mean.
 

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Re: Fiancées tattoo.

On a different note she has put on five pounds since she got pregnant and I have lost twelve,wtf does this mean.
She is doing what she is supposed to be doing as a pregnant woman. Just chill. You, on the other hand, are still running around in proverbial circles. I'm confident though, that you will figure this out, Andy.

I don't know if ultimately she is the right girl for you, she still seems very impressionable and needs to grow up some. The child may help, I dunno. A certain level of cynicism is required.

I agree that she is in a tough spot with family because having a baby is very stressful and sisters can be extremely helpful. She has to keep the cord cut with her toxic mother, stand up for herself and keep her distance. Her mom is extremely manipulative and that won't change.

She also needs to make new and better friends. Maybe there is a meet-up group around you for first time pregnant moms or something. Her old friends need to stay gone. They weren't true friends. You might remind her of that on occasion when she is feeling sorry for herself.
 

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Discussion Starter #857
Re: Fiancées tattoo.

She is doing what she is supposed to be doing as a pregnant woman. Just chill. You, on the other hand, are still running around in proverbial circles. I'm confident though, that you will figure this out, Andy.

I don't know if ultimately she is the right girl for you, she still seems very impressionable and needs to grow up some. The child may help, I dunno. A certain level of cynicism is required.

I agree that she is in a tough spot with family because having a baby is very stressful and sisters can be extremely helpful. She has to keep the cord cut with her toxic mother, stand up for herself and keep her distance. Her mom is extremely manipulative and that won't change.

She also needs to make new and better friends. Maybe there is a meet-up group around you for first time pregnant moms or something. Her old friends need to stay gone. They weren't true friends. You might remind her of that on occasion when she is feeling sorry for herself.
For some reason I haven't been able to post since Sunday.J came over to my house on Sunday evening as I said and I was fearing the worst.I thought she wanted to break up or move back home with her family at the very least.She immediately gave me a hug and apologised for what she said at the counselling session.She was very upset and crying,she said her emotions are all over the place and she wasn't thinking straight.I told her I would bring her to the doctor the next day but she said she was exactly the same when she had her son.As I said the make up sex was great.I suggested her moving in with me,at least for Christmas and she agreed.
We had another appointment with the counsellor this week and it went a lot better for me but for J not so much.The guy immediately started asking her about accusing me of manipulating her and told her if she really felt this way then maybe we spend some time apart.I didn't like the sound of this at all but J swore she didn't feel that way and she knew I hadn't manipulated her.He then brought up the subject of her sisters and would she consider contacting them.She said she would think about it but I can't see,especially in the short term.He was very insistent that she needed some sort of female company and J said she had Ally to talk to.
I have to say what she said to me about manipulating her really hurt because I don't think I'm like that and this has raised some doubt in my mind.I am not used to dealing with pregnant women and maybe this is par for the course or maybe she is having second thoughts about us.I really wish I could talk to a relative or a close friend that I could trust but I can't.
 

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Re: Fiancées tattoo.

For some reason I haven't been able to post since Sunday.J came over to my house on Sunday evening as I said and I was fearing the worst.I thought she wanted to break up or move back home with her family at the very least.She immediately gave me a hug and apologised for what she said at the counselling session.She was very upset and crying,she said her emotions are all over the place and she wasn't thinking straight.I told her I would bring her to the doctor the next day but she said she was exactly the same when she had her son.As I said the make up sex was great.I suggested her moving in with me,at least for Christmas and she agreed.
We had another appointment with the counsellor this week and it went a lot better for me but for J not so much.The guy immediately started asking her about accusing me of manipulating her and told her if she really felt this way then maybe we spend some time apart.I didn't like the sound of this at all but J swore she didn't feel that way and she knew I hadn't manipulated her.He then brought up the subject of her sisters and would she consider contacting them.She said she would think about it but I can't see,especially in the short term.He was very insistent that she needed some sort of female company and J said she had Ally to talk to.
I have to say what she said to me about manipulating her really hurt because I don't think I'm like that and this has raised some doubt in my mind.I am not used to dealing with pregnant women and maybe this is par for the course or maybe she is having second thoughts about us.I really wish I could talk to a relative or a close friend that I could trust but I can't.
This would worry me a little bit. You want J to be open and honest in counselling, even if the subject is painful. If she's feeling regret for sharing her feelings and if the counselor is rebuking her for it in front of you, then she'll be less likely to share in future sessions. Maybe the consellor saw an obvious case of blame shifting and he called her on it, but if not, it strikes me as a little odd.
 

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Re: Fiancées tattoo.

This would worry me a little bit. You want J to be open and honest in counselling, even if the subject is painful. If she's feeling regret for sharing her feelings and if the counselor is rebuking her for it in front of you, then she'll be less likely to share in future sessions. Maybe the consellor saw an obvious case of blame shifting and he called her on it, but if not, it strikes me as a little odd.
Problem is she is pregnant. Her hormone levels are most likely going crazy and that may very well accompanied by mood swings etc. Add the whole situation with her family and OP. It's hard to filter that in a therapy situation. For her and the therapist, and OP over all others. OP, you are so clueless it's almost cute.
 
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