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Discussion Starter #281
Re: Fiancées tattoo.

No, it is okay to say it was inappropriate. There are things I KNOW I did, when I was younger, which were completely and utterly inappropriate and stupid. She is WRONG to use it as an attack on you and use it to explain why your fiance is insecure. The only reason it would apply is if Sam and Ally have been running their mouths about your former escapades to your fiance.
Did the people who joined in with you ever come back and say it was all your fault though? Your other point raised some issues with me though because I just realised my F knew who Sam was on Sunday even though they had supposedly never met.Now I may be just feeling paranoid about this,my head is all over the place and maybe she just assumed but even I didn't know Sam was coming over.As for Ally she would never go behind my back,trust me on this.Thanks for your advice.
 

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Re: Fiancées tattoo.

How would she know Sam?

Why would you believe that?
 

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Re: Fiancées tattoo.

Regardless of the source of insecurities in your fiancee, they are there. People with insecurities often look around for external explanations for them, when in truth they reside inside the person. Now that your friends have settled the issue for your fiancee that you haven't cheated on your fiancee, it seems to the tide has turned to "you flirt with my female friends and that makes me insecure." And I don't know that I entirely believe that the reason your fiancee leaves her kid with her parents so that you won't run away is entirely true, but even if there is, it is once again a sign of insecurity. In order for you to know if this relationship is going to work long-term, or even be able to assess if it is possible, you have to experience your fiancee's life as it is, and that includes the child. So you have them staying over now and then.

Whatever else Sam said that may or may not be true, I think she is absolutely right that to echo what has already been suggested and proposed, which is that your fiancee needs to get her own place and live there with her boy before the two of you decide to marry and make a commitment. You both seem to have some introspection to do, and I think that while you're capable of doing it, I'm not sure your fiancee wants to stare down the true source of her insecurity and deal with it. I hope for your sake I'm wrong, but I'm not seeing a lot of progress on her part.

And I'm not sure what to make of your fiancee's assertion that the only thing she had to hurt you with was the tattoo remark in the public space. Maybe SHE thinks you're flirting with her friends, but siding with her friend who doesn't seem to a supporter of your relationship doesn't seem healthy. Instead of ragging you and saying, oh, I'm going to get a tattoo of my friend's dad, and she thinks I should do it just to spite you, maybe she could have said to her friend, look, if you don't agree with our arrangement that I won't get one, suggest ways to me that I can talk to Andy about it to get a different agreement. There's no maturity, in other words, in the way they're goading you. If they think you're flirting, they need to pull you aside and say that, and say that they feel their friend is being disrespected when you do.

I'm just suggesting there are more adult ways to talk about this stuff, and I think that's what Sam was trying to get you to see. She seems to have sized up the situation pretty accurately and is frustrated that you're not seeing it too.
 

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Discussion Starter #285 (Edited)
Re: Fiancées tattoo.

Regardless of the source of insecurities in your fiancee, they are there. People with insecurities often look around for external explanations for them, when in truth they reside inside the person. Now that your friends have settled the issue for your fiancee that you haven't cheated on your fiancee, it seems to the tide has turned to "you flirt with my female friends and that makes me insecure." And I don't know that I entirely believe that the reason your fiancee leaves her kid with her parents so that you won't run away is entirely true, but even if there is, it is once again a sign of insecurity. In order for you to know if this relationship is going to work long-term, or even be able to assess if it is possible, you have to experience your fiancee's life as it is, and that includes the child. So you have them staying over now and then.

Whatever else Sam said that may or may not be true, I think she is absolutely right that to echo what has already been suggested and proposed, which is that your fiancee needs to get her own place and live there with her boy before the two of you decide to marry and make a commitment. You both seem to have some introspection to do, and I think that while you're capable of doing it, I'm not sure your fiancee wants to stare down the true source of her insecurity and deal with it. I hope for your sake I'm wrong, but I'm not seeing a lot of progress on her part.

And I'm not sure what to make of your fiancee's assertion that the only thing she had to hurt you with was the tattoo remark in the public space. Maybe SHE thinks you're flirting with her friends, but siding with her friend who doesn't seem to a supporter of your relationship doesn't seem healthy. Instead of ragging you and saying, oh, I'm going to get a tattoo of my friend's dad, and she thinks I should do it just to spite you, maybe she could have said to her friend, look, if you don't agree with our arrangement that I won't get one, suggest ways to me that I can talk to Andy about it to get a different agreement. There's no maturity, in other words, in the way they're goading you. If they think you're flirting, they need to pull you aside and say that, and say that they feel their friend is being disrespected when you do.

I'm just suggesting there are more adult ways to talk about this stuff, and I think that's what Sam was trying to get you to see. She seems to have sized up the situation pretty accurately and is frustrated that you're not seeing it too.
Thank you once again for your insight.I have a preliminary session with a counsellor this evening.She came highly recommended(by a lawyer who specialises in divorce)and agreed to see me after normal working hours as a favour to him.
 

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Discussion Starter #289
Re: Fiancées tattoo.

Because I need professional advice without her there blaming me for everything.
I have realised something,I may or may not have unintentially hurt her.
But she intentionally tried to hurt me.
And she succeeded.
 

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Discussion Starter #291
Re: Fiancées tattoo.

Okay, well good luck. You are going about this wrong, IMO, but it is your life.
I have to either do something or walk.This is just a preliminary session if the counsellor reckons it will help I will ask my f to join in the next session.Thanks for your advice anyway.
 

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Re: Fiancées tattoo.

To be honest, I don't see the point of this type of pre-marriage counseling. You should feel like you're on cloud 9 with the person you're thinking of marriage. If you have to get counseling at this point, it's a big red flag that it's not going to work out.

There is valuable type of pre-marriage counseling, and that's when you discuss how you will handle situations like money, kids, lifestyle, etc to see if you're really on the same page for the big decisions in life.

You might as well go to the session, but understand that counseling requires a lot of continual work and may not have any big results. Thinking long term, you'll likely be better off trying to meet someone new than trying to fix this relationship through counseling.
 

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Discussion Starter #293
Re: Fiancées tattoo.

To be honest, I don't see the point of this type of pre-marriage counseling. You should feel like you're on cloud 9 with the person you're thinking of marriage. If you have to get counseling at this point, it's a big red flag that it's not going to work out.

There is valuable type of pre-marriage counseling, and that's when you discuss how you will handle situations like money, kids, lifestyle, etc to see if you're really on the same page for the big decisions in life.

You might as well go to the session, but understand that counseling requires a lot of continual work and may not have any big results. Thinking long term, you'll likely be better off trying to meet someone new than trying to fix this relationship through counseling.
You are probably right,but I have five years invested in this relationship which is about four years and eleven months longer than any other one I had.My f seems to think everything is fine and dandy and that I have accepted we were both wrong.But I haven't.
 

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Re: Fiancées tattoo.

So she's insecure and thinks your cheating, then she's insecure that your going to run away. So after 5 years, she still doesn't get her son involved. THEN she's insecure that your flirting with other women?

There's an issue here. She needs to find the root of her insecurities. She doesn't trust you. Believe me. Did something happen in a past relationship to make her this way? Ex cheating, abuse ect? Because her behaviour isn't normal and she needs to get to the bottom of it. She should be in counselling, not you. You can't form a healthy relationship if there is no trust and respect. And the way she intentionally hurt you.... There's no respect at all. It sounds like she walks all over you, and you let her.

She needs to be more involved with her son. She's a mother. It's who she is. And I'm sure when you started dating her, you knew this and accepted both of them. So after 5 years, he should be more involved in your relationship. You should be a family! In all honesty, you should probably try living together before marriage. A LOT of crap comes out in the early living days, and I don't think your relationship would handle the different personalities at such a close space 24/7.

She needs counselling. And you need to ask her to get it individually to sort her trust and insecurity issues. She can't provide a loving relationship if she doesn't love herself.
 

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Re: Fiancées tattoo.

So she's insecure and thinks your cheating, then she's insecure that your going to run away. So after 5 years, she still doesn't get her son involved. THEN she's insecure that your flirting with other women?

There's an issue here. She needs to find the root of her insecurities. She doesn't trust you. Believe me. Did something happen in a past relationship to make her this way? Ex cheating, abuse ect? Because her behaviour isn't normal and she needs to get to the bottom of it. She should be in counselling, not you. You can't form a healthy relationship if there is no trust and respect. And the way she intentionally hurt you.... There's no respect at all. It sounds like she walks all over you, and you let her.

She needs to be more involved with her son. She's a mother. It's who she is. And I'm sure when you started dating her, you knew this and accepted both of them. So after 5 years, he should be more involved in your relationship. You should be a family! In all honesty, you should probably try living together before marriage. A LOT of crap comes out in the early living days, and I don't think your relationship would handle the different personalities at such a close space 24/7.

She needs counselling. And you need to ask her to get it individually to sort her trust and insecurity issues. She can't provide a loving relationship if she doesn't love herself.

@chatabox, I agree with everything you've said, but with one caveat. Andy has had an ephipany, one that many of us were urging him towards:

"Because I need professional advice without her there blaming me for everything.
I have realised something,I may or may not have unintentially hurt her.
But she intentionally tried to hurt me.
And she succeeded."

He needs to sort this out and how he feels before he tells her she needs counseling and raises questions with her about some of her issues.

As the old adage goes, you have to attach your own oxygen mask first before you're in any kind of shape to help anyone else in a significant sustained way. And after he sorts this issue out, he may not want to bother investing the time and effort in getting her to go to counseling and deal with her insecurities.

Whatever the source of them, whatever may have happened in the past to cause them, the operative term here is "intentionally" when Andy describes the event that hurt him.

He's made it third base and he's almost home; and when he gets there, he can decide what to do about helping her figure herself out.
 

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Re: Fiancées tattoo.

@phillybeffandswiss, I see your posts above, so I was wondering if you'd elaborate. I'm slow so could you elaborate on what you mean about him going about it all wrong? He DID say she admitted she did what she did to hurt him, in collaboration with her friends. I think it is good he sees that she made that confession and intended to hurt him, and I for one am inclined to see the motivation of someone. So if someone hurts me inadvertantly that's one thing, but if they set out to do it, that's another. And that's not marriage material, in my opinion.
 

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Re: Fiancées tattoo.

@chatabox, I agree with everything you've said, but with one caveat. Andy has had an ephipany, one that many of us were urging him towards:

"Because I need professional advice without her there blaming me for everything.
I have realised something,I may or may not have unintentially hurt her.
But she intentionally tried to hurt me.
And she succeeded."

He needs to sort this out and how he feels before he tells her she needs counseling and raises questions with her about some of her issues.

As the old adage goes, you have to attach your own oxygen mask first before you're in any kind of shape to help anyone else in a significant sustained way. And after he sorts this issue out, he may not want to bother investing the time and effort in getting her to go to counseling and deal with her insecurities.

Whatever the source of them, whatever may have happened in the past to cause them, the operative term here is "intentionally" when Andy describes the event that hurt him.

He's made it third base and he's almost home; and when he gets there, he can decide what to do about helping her figure herself out.
Exactly. He is on the right heading, even if his velocity is not quite where it should yet be.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
 

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Re: Fiancées tattoo.

I am engaged to be married next October,my fiancée is 32 and has a seven year old son from a previous relationship.When we started being exclusive I made a point of saying tattoos were a deal breaker and she laughed and said her fear of needles would rule them out anyway.
So of course you know what's coming.She informed in front of a lot of her friends on Sunday that she is getting a tattoo on her side to support one of her friends who has had a bereavement.I told her we needed to discuss this alone but her friends all butted in and said it's her body and she can do what she wants.I ended up going home on my own(she lives with her parents but stays in my house overnight when we go out).I met her on Monday and she was furious because I showed her up in front of her friends.
I asked her what about our agreement and she said she was supporting her friend.I got really angry and told her if her friends meant more to her than me then there was no point going on.I swear this is the first time I ever lost my temper with her but she is adamant this tattoo is happening,and for me not to be so stupid.I really hate tattoos and there is no way we are getting married if she goes through with it.Am I being unreasonable about this.
I will say that you are fortunate not to be married to her, because she doesn't care what you think or (even more important) what promises she has made to you.

So obviously I don't think you are being unreasonable.
 

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Re: Fiancées tattoo.

Yes she had been drinking,we were in a bar watching football on tv,but she thought I would just accept this as I normally just let her do what she wants.By the way she is no fool she has a successful business that she built from scratch.I think she regrets saying it to me in front of her friends and she can't be seen to back down.
That makes it even worse. She is more concerned about being "seen to back down" by her friends than about a promise she made to you? Run!
 
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