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Discussion Starter #201
Re: Fiancées tattoo.

We have just taken a time out from our talk but it's not going as planned.I kept my list in my pocket.
My brother texted me and suggested we leave the boy with his grandparents and adopt a#%*%# goldfish as that's about all he would trust us to look after.I think he was joking.
Real charmer my brother...
 

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Are you surprised it did not go as planned?

She is not the enemy. If it does not or cannot work out, part as friends. And stay friends. No shouting or fighting, demands or anger. She is either your future wife, a future friend, or a person you will never see again. Stay calm.
 

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Re: Fiancées tattoo.

We have just taken a time out from our talk but it's not going as planned.
In what way?

My brother texted me and suggested we leave the boy with his grandparents and adopt a#%*%# goldfish as that's about all he would trust us to look after.I think he was joking.
Real charmer my brother...
Where he may lack in charm, he likely makes up for in speaking the truth. I was not there, but from the outside looking in, my bet is on half kidding, which is actually like 5% kidding and 95% truth.
 

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Re: Fiancées tattoo.

Yes, I know, you feel guilty because you told her to shut up. Yes, it was bad. Still, it isn't in the realm of having her friends berating you, allowing it to happen and holding onto the grudge for days. Well, you did what many do here. You latched onto something and went full bore. You ignored people telling you to slow down, calm down and take time. The internet is helpful and full of decent advice. It REALLY sucks at timetables. You BOTH need to calm down and talk when things aren't emotionally charged. Seriously, even if it is her fault, who the heck would want too talk to the person who just canceled a wedding over a tattoo argument? I know it is deeper, but strong emotions make a person think rationally.


Also, you need to really research that diagram, you are not the victim in the drama triangle.
 

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Re: Fiancées tattoo.

At the end of October we have what's called half term,it is one full week off and also the Monday of the following week.So the kid will be missing four days total.
4 days isn't so bad, but it isn't so good, either. Again, the idea is the child doesn't miss any school that he doesn't absolutely have to miss.

If you do go with the October plan, make sure his mom remembers to have the teacher(s) prepare a packet of work for him to take with him so that he isn't overwhelmed when he gets back.

We have just taken a time out from our talk but it's not going as planned.I kept my list in my pocket.
My brother texted me and suggested we leave the boy with his grandparents and adopt a#%*%# goldfish as that's about all he would trust us to look after.I think he was joking.
Real charmer my brother...
I think your brother is trying to say he has doubts about the levels of maturity and responsibility being displayed.
 

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Discussion Starter #206 (Edited)
Re: Fiancées tattoo.

I don't know if anyone is still reading about my problems butI find it helpful to write them down anyway.My fiancée came over as planned last night and we sat down beside each other and talked for a long time.She told me she loved me and didn't want to break up and I told her the same.
What she said next shocked me.
She asked me how many times I had cheated on her since we got engaged.I was really pissed at this butI did not shout or even swear when I told her I had never cheated on her since the day we met.She asked me about going to a Bruce Springsteen concert with an old friend of mine called Alison.Ive known Alison almost twelve years and we actually met at a Springsteen gig when she asked me to lift her up om my shoulders to get a photograph of him.Alison rung me in March and my fiancée was there at the time,she said she and her partner Sam were supposed to be going together but Sam had to cancel.Alison is a very pretty,smart,vivacious girl.She is also gay and her partner Sam's full name is Samantha.My fiancée seemed relived especially when I brought up Alison's Facebook page and it was obvious she was in a relationship with Samanth.She asked me why I had never told her Alisonwas gay and I didn't really know,the subject just never came up.Apparently some mutual acquaintance told my fiancée that Alison was very pretty and she was crazy to let me take her to the gig.
My fiancée then asked me did I sleep with one of my female friend's on St Patrick's day.We had been out together early in the day and my fiancée went home early and me and some friends stayed in a bar until late.I swore I had never cheated on her and she said again her friends were telling her she shouldn't leave me with these friends as they are all single and play the field.I could see a pattern emerging here and I asked her is that why we have been going out together more often to bars with her friends and she said she wanted to see how I reacted with them and would I flirt with them.
She then said her biggest fear was that I was going to do a runner like the boys father and she would be left on her own again.She said I was very secretive and she never really knew what I was thinking,also I always kept my phone and laptop password protected as if I didn't trust her.
She asked me if I was willing to let her look through my texts and emails.I was reluctant to do this purely because of the texts from her mother and sisters but I could see it meant a lot to her so I agreed.This is where I took a time out and went out to my car to let her read them.
 

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Re: Fiancées tattoo.

So... you allowed her to flip the script on you. It went from her betraying your trust with trying to force you into a tattoo that you discussed was a deal breaker for you, to her accusing you of openly cheating on her. And, asking you to open your phone and computer to her. She just blame shifted you. She deflected all her guilt to you being guilty of something, and you allowed it.

OK. Do you have full and open access to all her online accounts? How does anything she just accused you of change what she did to you? She once again told you it was her toxic friends that brought these concerns to her attention. Do you see the same pattern here?

You are still getting played. She has turned her lying and untrustworthiness back onto you, and you fell for it. You need to stop playing into her hand brother.
 

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Discussion Starter #208
Re: Fiancées tattoo.

So... you allowed her to flip the script on you. It went from her betraying your trust with trying to force you into a tattoo that you discussed was a deal breaker for you, to her accusing you of openly cheating on her. And, asking you to open your phone and computer to her. She just blame shifted you. She deflected all her guilt to you being guilty of something, and you allowed it.

OK. Do you have full and open access to all her online accounts? How does anything she just accused you of change what she did to you? She once again told you it was her toxic friends that brought these concerns to her attention. Do you see the same pattern here?

You are still getting played. She has turned her lying and untrustworthiness back onto you, and you fell for it. You need to stop playing into her hand brother.
This is just the first part of our talk,it goes on a lot longer but I have to go to work for now.
 

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Re: Fiancées tattoo.

So... you allowed her to flip the script on you. It went from her betraying your trust with trying to force you into a tattoo that you discussed was a deal breaker for you, to her accusing you of openly cheating on her. And, asking you to open your phone and computer to her. She just blame shifted you. She deflected all her guilt to you being guilty of something, and you allowed it.

OK. Do you have full and open access to all her online accounts? How does anything she just accused you of change what she did to you? She once again told you it was her toxic friends that brought these concerns to her attention. Do you see the same pattern here?

You are still getting played. She has turned her lying and untrustworthiness back onto you, and you fell for it. You need to stop playing into her hand brother.
These 'friends' have to go.
 

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Re: Fiancées tattoo.

Just listen to yourself....I see where this is heading. My friend... lists do not work and are tossed the second you get married. Not a quick death but a slow deliberate death.

Ignore the red flags at your peril.
why can we only "like" this once.

exactly the kind of thing my ex-wife admitted many years later, and also what I've heard from guys who thought their fiance's were "frivilous", that "once we're married, I'll just manage things so that doesn't happen because they're my husband/wife."
 

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Discussion Starter #212
Re: Fiancées tattoo.

Well after sitting in the car for what seemed a long time my fiancée came outside and asked me to come back in.She was crying and trying to talk and it tore me apart not to comfort her and tell her everything was fine and we would just carry on as usual and just forget all the crap she had put me through.I never realised until then how much I loved her but the idea someone could have so much power over me kind of scared me too.
She finally composed herself and we started talking again.She was particularly upset about the texts from her mother and sister but was furious over her "friends"texting me offering to meet and talk.She told me most of her friends like me and some of them have a crush on me.
But she said her friend with the tattoos really hates me and it is all over a comment I made one day about the tramp stamp tattoo she was showing us a picture of.What I said was the reason they are called tramp stamps is the only people who can see them are either having sex with you from behind or looking at your ass and the person wearing it can't see it so they can't say they just liked the design.It probably wasn't the nicest thing to say but I still stick by my opinion.
I decided to let her keep talking and just answer her and then I will have my say.
I asked why she thought I had cheated on her and was that the reason she had started putting me down in public.She said she is insecure with me because if we ever had a major fall out(like now) she will be left as a single mom with nobody to care for her.She also said some of her friends told her that I was out of her league looks wise which is rubbish,she is a stunner.She said she maybe was a stunner years ago but at thirty two with a child her chances of meeting someone who genuinely cares for her and the boy are low.She was really shocked that Alison was gay and said she thought we had been having a friends with benefits relationship for years.The only time Alison ever kissed me was when I told her I was getting engaged.She told me I am very passive and sometimes it drives her up the wall,that I just go with the flow.This is why when I got so mad over the tattoo and left her in the bar she thought I was gone out of her life for good.
She also insisted that I look at her texts and emails,I didn't really want to but I'm glad I did.There was at least a dozen anonymous texts since last Sunday saying I have been seen with different girls in various nightclubs and bars,she had actually got one while I was sitting in the car waiting for her to read my texts.This is one or more of her **** stirring friends causing trouble.
She then said it was time for me to have my say.
I told her it was really rude of her to insult me in front of her friends and employees and for that reason alone I should have broken up with her months ago.I also told her about how she made me feel over the car and the haircut.She accepted what I said but genuinely felt that I had encouraged the buzz cut.She said she remembered us watching a dvd of a Natalie Portman film where she shaved her head and I said it would look hot on her.I remember it differently but her hair grew back anyway.I also brought up some other occasions where I felt she had disrespected me and she agreed that it looks that way but I was always so easygoing that she figured I'd agree with her decision anyway.We started talking about the affect this was having on the boy and she said the atmosphere at home was horrible and she was looking for an apartment to rent because her mom was adamant she was moving out.She is thinking about maybe taking two months off work and letting one of the trainers manage the business and spending the school holidays with the kid,then she is just going to work around his school hours.
I then finally brought up the subject of the tattoo.She said that she never wanted the tattoo but because I got so mad in front of her friends that she wasn't prepared to back down in public.She promised me that she would never get one unless I ask her to so she won't be getting one then
.I told her we needed to discuss her insecurities about me and she said because of the way we met that I could be picking up girls every day.
She had to leave at that stage because her mom will only babysit for a short time but we are meeting today at the local park and we will talk more.
 

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Re: Fiancées tattoo.

You need to discuss her misplaced sense of pride and stubbornness.

She keeps talking about the symptoms (not backing down), not the cause.

Classic.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter #214
Re: Fiancées tattoo.

You need to discuss her misplaced sense of pride and stubbornness.

She keeps talking about the symptoms (not backing down), not the cause.

Classic.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
Yes I see what you mean,thank you for the advice.
 

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Discussion Starter #215
Re: Fiancées tattoo.

So I don't necessarily disagree with much of the advice you've received so far, but...

Someone who won't marry another person because of a tattoo seems extraordinarily rigid to me. As the saying goes, pick the hill you want to die on. Is this it? I don't think it's unreasonable to evaluate our prejudices from time to time to evaluate their real importance.

I remember telling my wife at 22 to take me out in the back yard and shoot me if I ever drove a mini-van. Well, after two kids, you know the drill. And (damn it) it was a good vehicle.
You didn't have to sleep with the minivan.
 

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Re: Fiancées tattoo.

I don't know if anyone is still reading about my problems butI find it helpful to write them down anyway.My fiancée came over as planned last night and we sat down beside each other and talked for a long time.She told me she loved me and didn't want to break up and I told her the same.
What she said next shocked me.
She asked me how many times I had cheated on her since we got engaged.I was really pissed at this butI did not shout or even swear when I told her I had never cheated on her since the day we met.She asked me about going to a Bruce Springsteen concert with an old friend of mine called Alison.Ive known Alison almost twelve years and we actually met at a Springsteen gig when she asked me to lift her up om my shoulders to get a photograph of him.Alison rung me in March and my fiancée was there at the time,she said she and her partner Sam were supposed to be going together but Sam had to cancel.Alison is a very pretty,smart,vivacious girl.She is also gay and her partner Sam's full name is Samantha.My fiancée seemed relived especially when I brought up Alison's Facebook page and it was obvious she was in a relationship with Samanth.She asked me why I had never told her Alisonwas gay and I didn't really know,the subject just never came up.Apparently some mutual acquaintance told my fiancée that Alison was very pretty and she was crazy to let me take her to the gig.
My fiancée then asked me did I sleep with one of my female friend's on St Patrick's day.We had been out together early in the day and my fiancée went home early and me and some friends stayed in a bar until late.I swore I had never cheated on her and she said again her friends were telling her she shouldn't leave me with these friends as they are all single and play the field.I could see a pattern emerging here and I asked her is that why we have been going out together more often to bars with her friends and she said she wanted to see how I reacted with them and would I flirt with them.
She then said her biggest fear was that I was going to do a runner like the boys father and she would be left on her own again.She said I was very secretive and she never really knew what I was thinking,also I always kept my phone and laptop password protected as if I didn't trust her.
She asked me if I was willing to let her look through my texts and emails.I was reluctant to do this purely because of the texts from her mother and sisters but I could see it meant a lot to her so I agreed.This is where I took a time out and went out to my car to let her read them.
None of this is good. She IS blame-shifting, and she is saying that her perception of YOUR trustworthiness is behind her lame childish behavior. In your later post you say she was upset about the text from her mother and sister. She's been busted by the whole family and she knows it and the wagons are circling, not in her support, but in support of her growing up.

So she IS going to get an apartment, and she already had plans for the school holiday with her son. So in a way she sees the handwriting on the wall and is making plans to be more involved with her son.

I just have some concern that she's grasping on to you because as you pointed out, she feels at 32 and as a single mum, she won't have many chances. That's probably crap. But here's a newsflash. That does NOT obligate YOU to be in this relationship. Don't be a Knight in Shining Armor. Please. You can do so much better (after a little introspection on how easily you can manipulated by women like this).
 

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Re: Fiancées tattoo.

"Cat tat" lol:grin2:

Unlike a lot of others, I say a lot of this really IS about tattoos. God, I HATE them. Smeary, black-blue stains, or a chaotic, colored mess covering someones entire limb. How do you improve on clear, clean human skin? Answer: you can't. Too bad there wasn't a "tat" that lasted 3 months. After about 3 months, I bet most people wished they hadn't gotten one; but they don't admit it, 'cause they have to save face.

32 years old? Like MJJean, I thought she was 23ish. Wow, so the bloom is off the rose. Look, Andy, you said you are described as handsome, so what's to stop you getting another really pretty girl? But, please, DON'T go into relationships for looks alone.

Boy oh boy, her mom and dad saw you coming and couldn't believe their good luck. They were finally getting her off their hands, and no more babysitting for them. Yippee!!

And your gf. actually told you that she wanted to keep you because she doesn't think she can get anyone else at 32, when she's got a kid. That's called "settling". Don't be the schmuck that was "settled" for. If you're young, childless, and decent and kind; you don't have to settle.

Try being away from her for a few months. I bet you survive just fine. And remember, "a person is known by the company they keep"; some of her friends are real doozies.

Run for the hills. You got lucky and found out what she is like in time.
I could not agree more. THIS is REALLY important. You are a mirror image of my h and he settled, and OW got a catch and the redneck family couldn't wait to unload the sister/daughter.

You could do so much better.
 

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Re: Fiancées tattoo.

I don't know if anyone is still reading about my problems butI find it helpful to write them down anyway.My fiancée came over as planned last night and we sat down beside each other and talked for a long time.She told me she loved me and didn't want to break up and I told her the same.
What she said next shocked me.
She asked me how many times I had cheated on her since we got engaged.I was really pissed at this butI did not shout or even swear when I told her I had never cheated on her since the day we met.She asked me about going to a Bruce Springsteen concert with an old friend of mine called Alison.Ive known Alison almost twelve years and we actually met at a Springsteen gig when she asked me to lift her up om my shoulders to get a photograph of him.Alison rung me in March and my fiancée was there at the time,she said she and her partner Sam were supposed to be going together but Sam had to cancel.Alison is a very pretty,smart,vivacious girl.She is also gay and her partner Sam's full name is Samantha.My fiancée seemed relived especially when I brought up Alison's Facebook page and it was obvious she was in a relationship with Samanth.She asked me why I had never told her Alisonwas gay and I didn't really know,the subject just never came up.Apparently some mutual acquaintance told my fiancée that Alison was very pretty and she was crazy to let me take her to the gig.
My fiancée then asked me did I sleep with one of my female friend's on St Patrick's day.We had been out together early in the day and my fiancée went home early and me and some friends stayed in a bar until late.I swore I had never cheated on her and she said again her friends were telling her she shouldn't leave me with these friends as they are all single and play the field.I could see a pattern emerging here and I asked her is that why we have been going out together more often to bars with her friends and she said she wanted to see how I reacted with them and would I flirt with them.
She then said her biggest fear was that I was going to do a runner like the boys father and she would be left on her own again.She said I was very secretive and she never really knew what I was thinking,also I always kept my phone and laptop password protected as if I didn't trust her.
She asked me if I was willing to let her look through my texts and emails.I was reluctant to do this purely because of the texts from her mother and sisters but I could see it meant a lot to her so I agreed.This is where I took a time out and went out to my car to let her read them.
What a load of bullsh*t.

Did you think to ask her how many times she has cheated on you? If not, do so the next time that you see her.

Don't do it over the phone -- you need to be able to see the look on her face when you ask her.
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Re: Fiancées tattoo.

What a load of bullsh*t.

Did you think to ask her how many times she has cheated on you? If not, do so the next time that you see her.

Don't do it over the phone -- you need to be able to see the look on her face when you ask her.
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THIS! :iagree::iagree::iagree:

My immEDIATE gut reaction/response when I read that post was, she's projecting.

And it may be that she's turning the narrative because when you walked out of the bar and left her, she finally saw a guy who could mean business.
 
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